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Games, Games, and More Games => Console Games => Topic started by: Clayface on July 09, 2011, 01:05:04 am

Title: Final Fantasy
Post by: Clayface on July 09, 2011, 01:05:04 am
if there is already a final fantasy topic it's really old and hasn't been posted in in forever,
so this thread is for discussing all things final fantasy
Mainly, I would like to know which Final Fantasy everyone liked the most, and which ones people have played

I've played
4,5,6,7,8,9,10,10-2,11,12,and 13

4,5,and 6 are all good, and it's hard for me to pick a favorite from them, they're all good in their own ways, but overall I think I like 6 best of those 3, and I like 10 best of the 3d ones
i didn't like 7 or 8 or 12 or 13, the rest are all good in some way or another, be it story, game-play, or both

like of 4,5,and 6  the story of 5 was majorly lacking in comparison to 4 and 6, but it had an amazing game-play mechanic that didn't show up again until 10-2, yes most fans consider 10-2 an abomination because A) it was a continuation of sorts from 10, and B) it was an all female cast, also the story sucked, but in 5 and 10-2 every character can be any class, as long as you unlock the classes

the ended of 6 and 10 were stupid, and yet I still chose them as my favorites,
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: /lurk on July 09, 2011, 02:48:12 am
Final Fantasy just can't get a decent combat system together outside of tactics games.

I guess FF12 had a decent thing going where it abandoned turn-basedness altogether, but the graphics were too flashy for the PS2 so you could only have one spell going at a time so it ended up in a ridiculous queue whenever you wanted to cast more than one spell (or cast while the enemy was)


Actually (I'm sure someone will be offended by this) as much as I loved Tactics Advance and A2 I couldn't get in to plain old Tactics. They just don't explain how the stats work or why if you have two monks one of them is only doing half as much damage as the other. Also it doesn't have combat jugglers and therefore is terrible.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Clayface on July 09, 2011, 03:09:48 am
I think playing actually good tactical rpg's like shining force ruined FF:tactics for me,

and many of the games had good combat systems,
I enjoyed the battle system in 10, it's very deep
ya it's turn based, but you need to know what everything does and when to use them
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gorman Conall on July 09, 2011, 06:17:31 am
My favorite is final fantasy tactics for the PS1, I couldn't get in to tactics advance since they scrapped the awesome JP system, and added the pants on head retarded system of learning skills from equipment.

Outside of the tactics, I really enjoyed final fantasy x, especially the sphere systems for leveling.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: /lurk on July 09, 2011, 07:53:39 am
My favorite is final fantasy tactics for the PS1, I couldn't get in to tactics advance since they scrapped the awesome JP system, and added the pants on head retarded system of learning skills from equipment.

But those adjectives are backwards.


I tried playing FF9, and as much as I enjoyed the setting and style and learning skills from equipment the combat system was so bassackwards that enemies were taking their turns while I was trying to find the item I wanted in the menu or watch the animation for a different attack. That was so stupid I gave up and went back to playing Grandia (which has a brilliant combat system).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gorman Conall on July 09, 2011, 10:49:35 am
I haven't enjoyed any final fantasy where they have those hybrid combat systems where the enemy's can do things on your turn like you described, if I want to play a turn based game it should be turn based, I shouldn't be getting punched in the face for taking my time.

Never heard of Grandia, ill look in to it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Celdur on July 09, 2011, 02:44:53 pm
i've never finished a final fantasy game

that's because they all have too much filler bull**** after the initial story part
i think i got furthest in 4, that was fun while it lasted.

also i think pretty much everyone agrees that square enix are ****ing retards when it comes to story, and nowadays are ****ing retards with pretty much anything they do.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Clayface on July 10, 2011, 12:36:12 am
most of the FF games had the option to chose if you want it to be turn based, or if you want the enemy to be able to attack while you're deciding what to do,
I guess it makes the game harder/more hardcore for die-hard fans,
it's like speed chess vs. normal chess,
nobody likes playing speed chess, unless you like playing speed chess,... know what I'm trying to say ?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: /lurk on July 10, 2011, 12:58:19 am
That option doesn't actually do anything in nine.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: eropS on July 11, 2011, 05:34:45 am
But... But... FFIX had Vivi...

It's also like, the best one ever.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 12, 2011, 07:49:17 am
Final Fantasy VII. Why is it such a great game? I'll tell you!

The mechanics of the game are fabulous. The materia system is one of the best skill allotment schemes in all of gaming. We're talking about a game that is fourteen years old that still has room for new builds and new strategies. It also allows experienced players to play the long game, so to speak. And what I mean is that you can formulate a plan at the beginning of a game concerning your character's progression and stay with that plan for all the hours it takes to reach the closing credits. There's a sense of achievement in earning your mastered materia and finding the very best spells.

As well, you've got a reasonable number of sidequests to occupy your time outside of the story, and the world is genuinely interesting. It has that old style of world map that is big, but still somewhat dense when it comes to finding secrets and treasures. Things aren't too spread out and there's always something just over the next hill. No vast wastelands of nothing like many modern games.

And of course, the story. It's a bit better than the cynics give it credit for. You've got two genuinely good plot twists and an acceptable main thread. Granted, it's not stellar, but it is a pretty good story. But really, the reason you go back to FFVII is for the mechanics.

It's a great mystery to me why Square ditched the materia system. Especially when FFVIII had such a tedious and annoying customization system. In fact, the materia system was so well-received that Square is planning to add it to FFXIV (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/5121-Crafting-in-General-OMG-Fix-It?p=82830#post82830) with the hope of saving the floundering MMO. Whether or not it will work is beyond me. But it is certainly a testament to the versatility of the system.

So please, even if you're a hater, go back and give FFVII a once-over. It's a good old game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: /lurk on July 12, 2011, 08:44:11 am
Rebuttal:

Even if you liked FF7 all those years ago when it came out, it's aged exceptionally poorly. It might have been considered a good RPG in 1997 (it might equally have been considered the only RPG in the west in 1997), but unlike 'classic' games in other genres RPG games have long since improved on this in every way. There's nothing worth going back to it for. The time you would spend playing it could be spend on much more rewarding RPGs instead.


The good things about the game are the hilarious film and popularising JRPGs in the west. Nothing else about it stands out as worthy.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 12, 2011, 09:02:58 am
You are absolutely, positively incorrect, Lurk! How can you be so narrow-minded, you always pick on this game.

The mechanics are the core of the experience and while they may have aged, they're still rock solid. Yes, cosmetically the game has aged very poorly, but so have most games from that era. It's what's under the hood that matters. And yes, the story isn't anything to phone home about; however, it's still better than a lot of the slop developers are giving us today.

Of course, it could also be a difference in preferences. If you don't like JRPGs then of course you're not going to approach the game with a positive opinion. But you can't discount the game for that reason. There's a reason why so many people like Final Fantasy VII and why the community considers it one of the best. That doesn't happen to games like the one you described in your previous post. If you really think Final Fantasy VII is a terrible game and has no merit, fine. But you're only fooling yourself.

I'm not even here to claim it's the greatest game ever. Yeah, some people call it that. I don't think it's the best game I've ever played. But it is very good.

But I've had this discussion with you before, Lurk. You're just a hater. If you're going to hate a Final Fantasy game, at least pick one that is genuinely bad. FFX, for instance. Or XIII.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: /lurk on July 12, 2011, 09:43:12 am
I love JRPGs! Compared to other ones that I've played, FF7 is simply no good. Maybe everyone else hadn't played any other JRPGs when it came out?

I'd hate on FF10 or 13, but I haven't played them because they were panned before I even got to them. With everyone praising FF7 I thought it should be really good, but it seems people didn't have any perspective when it came out.

You can say that the mechanics are sound, but the truth is that ATB is so terrible that it made me give up on Final Fantasy Nine - which was all around better presented and more engaging than Seven and I would have liked it, except for the one thing that it had in common.


You can play FF7 and even like it, but calling it a very good JRPG is a disservice to the genre. There are much better games - even better Final Fantasies.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Ultimatum on July 12, 2011, 10:05:24 am
Why does FFX get so much hate?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gorman Conall on July 12, 2011, 10:09:53 am
Why does FFX get so much hate?

because haters gon hate?

Other then tactics X is my favorite, but I hate remembering it because it reminds me of X2, which should be shot, burned, urinated on, exercised, and shot in to the sun.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on July 12, 2011, 10:14:54 am
final fantasy dissidia 012


nuff said
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 12, 2011, 10:51:57 am
You raise a good point, Lurk.

Final Fantasy suffers from me-too syndrome. Square tried so hard to top FFVI that they accidentally made a very similar games in respect to characters and story.

Also, I'm a HUGE fan of ATB. So that is probably where we're disagreeing the most. :P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Krakow Sam on July 13, 2011, 12:56:14 am
Lurk, Pat if I might interject?

Final fantasy is bad because their swords are too big.

Check mate.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Celdur on July 13, 2011, 01:56:02 am
Why does FFX get so much hate?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi96ucB7ZdI
>_>

man that game had annoying characters and a ridiculous plot.
it had a good combat system and great music i guess?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Clayface on July 18, 2011, 09:12:22 pm
that laugh scene is often cited as being the thing wrong with FFX, many haters never present any other evidence saying that one cutscene is enough to condemn the entire game,
it had a good combat system and amazing music, the story was so-so, the end was crap, the boss battles were good / challenging for the most part.  Also it has the secret temples / aeons. 
and other than the occasional ridiculously ridiculous cutscenes the characters are all quite likeable.  At least to me.
much better than the characters in 12 / 13
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Celdur on July 19, 2011, 02:04:55 am
well, this guy (http://spoonyexperiment.com/2010/03/11/it-begins-again/) seems to have it down pretty well
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Clayface on July 19, 2011, 10:40:48 am
I disagree, it's just a video of a guy raging and talking about stupid off topic stuff
totally biased review

watched more of it, and he doesn't know what he's talking about....

he rants about how they hold their breath for blitzball, but it shows them putting things in their mouth before going in the water, and he complains that the ball is a volleyball and shouldn't be able to travel underwater, .. but it's not volleyball, it's blitzball, so they are using a blitzball and not a volleyball, I think the sport volleyball doesn't exist in their world.  I'm guessing the ball is heavy, like a metal ball wrapped in leather, or a heavy rubber ball, which would allow it to travel underwater.

he says rikku has nothing to do with the plot and is only put in the game as a fan service, which is wrong,
he says they invented anti-gravity, but there is no anti gravity in the entire game, so I'm not sure where he got that from.

Wakkas hair is not a cow lick, I don't think this guy knows what a cow lick is.  and he complains about using the blitzball as the worst weapon ever, but as I mentioned before, the ball is most likely heaver than he thinks.

He says Titus is stupid,.. but he was teleported 1000 years in the future, so it's expected for him to not know some words / phrases / religions etc.  things change over time, and 1000 years is a long time.

all in all this was a totally biased opinionated review, it was 20+ min. of this guy whining about how much he hates Tidus.  And not once did he mention my favorite character in the game, Khimari, or their race, the Ronso, which is unique to this FF game,

it's obvious he doesn't know what he is talking about, and is ranting for attention.

(also Celdur, your avatar reminds me of the lead character from FF9, what with the tail and all)

Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on July 19, 2011, 12:04:29 pm
Tidus is an idiot, he gets told not to do things, like not say he is from zanarkand, and what does he do, he says he's from zanarkand 5 seconds later
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Celdur on July 19, 2011, 03:36:45 pm
nice how you 'debunk' all the little nitpicks he has in the review
really though, thats only part one, and he just complains about stuff as he progreses through the game
the real thing to look out for is the overall story and how its retarded
since you didnt notice its part one though, here you go:part 2 (http://spoonyexperiment.com/2010/06/13/final-fantasy-x-review-part-2/) part 3 (http://spoonyexperiment.com/2010/08/29/final-fantasy-x-review-%E2%80%93-part-3/)  finale (http://spoonyexperiment.com/2010/12/31/final-fantasy-x-finale/) (its pretty entertaining to watch anyway)

and for the record, i have played ff10, and i enjoyed it as long as it held my attention, though i do agree with everything this guy has to say, so nyeh.
also, this is silly.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gorman Conall on July 19, 2011, 03:47:03 pm
Celdur, how many times have I told you in IRC that a persons opinion is not a fact and stuff like this is very subjective!

I love the story, many people do, many people also dislike it, one opinion is not stronger then the other, get off your damn high horse.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 19, 2011, 06:44:23 pm
Lurk, Pat if I might interject?

Final fantasy is bad because their swords are too big.

Check mate.

We're playing checkers.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: /lurk on July 19, 2011, 06:54:28 pm
Lurk, Pat if I might interject?

Final fantasy is bad because their swords are too big.

Check mate.

We're playing checkers.

Whatever, I'm taking this pot. Full house.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 19, 2011, 07:24:48 pm
Bigmoneybigmoneynowhammy!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Celdur on July 19, 2011, 08:13:27 pm
Celdur, how many times have I told you in IRC that a persons opinion is not a fact and stuff like this is very subjective!

I love the story, many people do, many people also dislike it, one opinion is not stronger then the other, get off your damn high horse.

im sorry man, i just cant resist arguing with clay yknow.
and plot holes are not opinion yo
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 19, 2011, 08:43:40 pm
Clay is a plot hole.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: eropS on July 19, 2011, 10:15:26 pm
he rants about how they hold their breath for blitzball, but it shows them putting things in their mouth before going in the water, and he complains that the ball is a volleyball and shouldn't be able to travel underwater, .. but it's not volleyball, it's blitzball, so they are using a blitzball and not a volleyball, I think the sport volleyball doesn't exist in their world.  I'm guessing the ball is heavy, like a metal ball wrapped in leather, or a heavy rubber ball, which would allow it to travel underwater.




You're telling me these people kick a heavy metal ball and don't shatter any bone they manage to connect it with? And wouldn't a metal ball sink in the water?

I'm sorry but I almost find it being a volleyball more believable. They hurt when you get pegged and since the ones in game a spiked (lol polygons) I bet it would do some damage haha.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Clayface on July 19, 2011, 11:47:38 pm
but a volleyball would float

it could be made of that heavy rubber material nerf uses to make their underwater toys with,
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Celdur on July 20, 2011, 12:05:55 am
have you ever been in water clay? its not that hard of a concept to grasp, you cant trow stuff like that.
all the points you made are backwards anyway, and please dont make my point out how they all make no sense, i dont want to look like some guy who actually gives a ****.

i learned a long time ago that bickering like this is completely futile, people get mad over video games and will take any kind of foulmouthing of said video games personally, wich is stupid. and in the end you cant convince those people. but whatever you had fun with the game, like i said i did too for a while when i first played it. but that doesnt make it any less stupid.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gorman Conall on July 20, 2011, 09:01:50 am
You cant criticize a game for being unrealistic, especially when the word fantasy is already in the name.

You guys are trying too hard, learn what an opinion is.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on July 20, 2011, 10:04:16 am
if I were to get a final fantasy tactics for my psp, which one should I get
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gorman Conall on July 20, 2011, 10:15:40 am
if I were to get a final fantasy tactics for my psp, which one should I get


I thought there was only one for the psp?

The one that I know of is FFT war of the lions, it is a direct port of the Ps1 final fantasy tactics with a couple of extras added, I haven't played it on the psp, but I could write you a book about how awesome FFT is. However I have heard that the war of the lions has a few bugs and frame rate issues.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on July 20, 2011, 10:49:17 am
I played one final fantasy tactics (the one with the weird judges and white haired chick) I didn't really get into it but I always like to give games second chances.




Currently installing ff7 to my PSP to finally get 100% completion, if theirs any room left I'll see what other enix game I can get on my SD card
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gorman Conall on July 20, 2011, 11:49:21 am
I played one final fantasy tactics (the one with the weird judges and white haired chick) I didn't really get into it but I always like to give games second chances.

Yeah that would be Final fantasy tactics advance or advance 2, I really dislike both of those, but I really enjoy the original FFT for the ps1 (aka war of the lions for the psp)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Clayface on July 20, 2011, 12:37:28 pm
I didn't like tactics because of the judges and conditions for battles, i'd rather it just be a battle..
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on July 20, 2011, 12:50:45 pm
It used to annoy the hell out of me because I would never look at them and then half my team would get hauled off
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: /lurk on July 20, 2011, 01:02:07 pm
Well that's your fault, CRIMINAL SCUM.

It had the beneficial effect of forcing people to make balanced teams and keep their entire party levelled and not just ninja the game with six ninjas. Although you can probably still do that.


The problem with the original FFT was that stats made no sense and the classes didn't have anything close to a logical progression. So I had no idea what was going on and gave up on it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Clayface on July 20, 2011, 01:14:41 pm
that just means the game is unbalanced, and instead of fixing it they just added rules so people can't take advantage of it,

thats just bad game design in my opinion
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gauphastus on July 20, 2011, 05:57:55 pm
You cant criticize a game for being unrealistic, especially when the word fantasy is already in the name.


Nonono, this is not a get-out-of-jail free card against reasonable criticism; Spoony's is largely a performance piece but he was still able to point out, objectively, questionable scenarios in Final Fantasy X.
Even fantasy has to be grounded in our own reality on some level. There has to be some way for players to identify and connect with what is going on, either with characters, settings, or any sort of story element.
The problem that comes out of this is that people interpret and respond to things completely differently.

And still, suspension of disbelief is just one problem people claim to have with the game.

My own major claim is that I found the overall plot poorly structured and badly paced. I could handle the characters all being rather bland with little or no backstory at all. The writing was almost comically bad at times, but even that was forgivable.
Now that I think about it.. what really tended to yank me out of the experience was how the character models would tend to swap to these rather unappealing, stiffly animated, pixelmouth puppets. So in certain cutscenes, you'd have these smooth and nicely animated, though poorly lip-synced, characters.
But then in the rest of the scenes, you'd see the lower detail models using stock animations, standing around as dialogue or plain text prattled on, quite often leaving the characters staring in the wrong direction... it got worse when you'd start to see the stock animations play out many times as the game goes on.

It's all very unnatural and jarring. Hell, I liked the presentation from the PS1 era much more because low poly and stock animation were kind of the norm. They also didn't switch between two types of models, so it was at least consistent.

(http://i.imgur.com/u8wkZ.png)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Celdur on July 20, 2011, 07:01:49 pm
OH GOD THAT FACE

and yeah, denying the laws of physics can obviously be done in fantasy but it has to be explained how its done or at least lampshaded in some shape or form.
you cant just do random **** and expect everyone to just roll with it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Clayface on July 20, 2011, 09:10:17 pm
are you accusing final fantasy games of
do(ing) random **** and expect everyone to just roll with it.

if so where ?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Celdur on July 20, 2011, 09:24:56 pm
focus clayface, come on.
what have we been wasting our time on these last few posts, jegus chris.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Clayface on July 20, 2011, 09:53:42 pm
trying to answer my question with a question?  Thats not going to work on me
answer my question !
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Celdur on July 20, 2011, 10:29:14 pm
refer to previous posts about disregarding physics without any explanation or lampshading...ugh.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Clayface on July 21, 2011, 12:32:06 am
refer to previous post about me asking where in what game you are referring to
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Celdur on July 21, 2011, 12:41:02 am
refer to your neurologist first or something
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Cobra on July 25, 2011, 05:25:48 am
Also then theres the whole point of why is bliztball played under water if its still done in 2 Demensions.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gnoll on July 25, 2011, 05:39:32 am
Also then theres the whole point of why is bliztball played under water if its still done in 2 Demensions.

I always did wonder about that.

Maybe they all want us, the players, to come up with something...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 18, 2011, 06:21:20 pm
For anyone interested in a critical analysis of Final Fantasy... here's a sixteen course meal to feed your brain (http://socksmakepeoplesexy.net/index.php?a=patff).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gauphastus on August 18, 2011, 06:27:37 pm
Oho, those are great. I read a lot of those awhile ago, but now there's more.
I was wondering why I had that site in my favorites for the last.. two years or something. Now I know.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 31, 2015, 08:27:54 am
All Square had to do was nothing. Instead they did something, which could be the worst possible thing.

'Dramatic changes' and Advent Children will help shape the Final Fantasy 7 Remake (http://www.gamesradar.com/ff7-final-fantasy-7-remake-combat-dramatic-changes-advent-children/)

No no no no no no. Jesus ****ing christ, Square. All you had to do was fix the graphics and make things pretty, the one thing you are actually good at. But no, you decide now you have to **** with the mechanics. Square hasn't made a decent set of mechanics in years. Bravely Default was a disaster, the recent Final Fantasy games are ridiculous, and using Advent Children as an inspiration for anything related to a video game is insanity. ****. They are going to completely botch this up. Before there was small hope. Now there is no hope. This is a march toward a cliff.

Final Fantasy VII was one of the last great set of mechanics that Square managed to make. All of its components had depth, they meshed together well, and the system was rewarding when you finally figured it all out. It's like they have George Lucas Syndrome or something and just can't keep their fingers off of what worked. Everything has to be better, forget trying to do it right. Just shoot straight for better. Man this is just awful news.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 31, 2015, 08:32:52 am
Allow me to quote myself and explain.

Quote from: PatMan33
Here's where we get to open a big can of worms. I'm going to describe why Final Fantasy VII is such an achievement. And it's not because of the characters and it's not because of the story and it's not because of the environment. Most of those things were copied over from Final Fantasy VI.

Final Fantasy VII hits it out of the park when it comes to leveling up, equipping, combat, and the interface between the three.

First and foremost when looking at FFVII you need to understand the basics. The following assumes you know the fundamental aspects of a "normal" RPG, things like armor and hit points and stuff like that.

For the most part every character is a blank slate with base stats that vary somewhat. Some characters are better suited to be casters while others should be combat-oriented, but you can mix and match and still be very successful. It doesn't matter that much.

Each character has the ability to equip an armor and a weapon, and each of those components carry their own stats, as well as materia slots. Each weapon or armor has a varying number of slots, from zero all the way up to eight. This will be important near the bottom of this explanation.

What's materia though? Materia (plural) are items that you collect throughout the game that give characters abilities. And materia is "equipped" by placing it into a free materia slot in a piece of armor or a weapon. You could have a Lightning materia that gives your character the ability to cast lighting. You could have a Counter Attack materia that causes your character to counter attack when attacked. And there are a whole bunch of different types.

Materia fall into the following classes:

* Command - Alters battle menu commands ('Attack' becomes '2-Cut', et cetera)
* Independent - Gives character bonuses unrelated to other skills or attributes (EXP Plus, Long Range, et cetera)
* Magic - Gives character a magic skill
* Summon - Gives a character a summon
* Support - Works along with another Materia through linking (explained below)

You still with me? Good.

Now then, like any other RPG, Final Fantasy VII relies on experience gained through combat in order to improve your skills. You gain EXP and AP. EXP is your character's experience and it goes toward improving their base stats. AP is experience for your materia and that goes toward improving your materia's stats.

For example, a Lightning materia starts out with 0 AP and the Bolt ability. Once you've accrued 2,000 AP your Lightning materia will "grow" or level up. And once that happens your materia will now grant you Bolt II. From there you must reach the 18,000 AP mark to learn Bolt III. And if you max out a materia's AP stat (in Lightning's case 35,000 AP) the materia will become "mastered" and spawn a brand new Lightning materia that you can then use on another character.

Materia level and character level are entirely independent of one another. If you've got a mastered Lightning on Cloud and you want to move it to Vincent, you simply unequip it from Cloud and equip it on Vincent and bam, Vincent now has master level Bolt attacks. This system allows for very dynamic characters and you can play it different every time. It's pretty neat! But alas, there is more to go into... let's go back to weapons and armor for a moment.

Materia, armor, and weapons all work together to form a larger system that effectively dictates your character's stats and abilities. That said, each also serve a dual purpose. In the case of weapons and armor, while they determine your character's attack and defense stats, they also impact what is known as "materia growth", known hereafter as growth.

What is growth? Growth is an additional stat that weapons and armor carry and it is fairly straightforward. If an equip has "normal" growth, at the end of a battle your total AP earned (remember, AP is your materia's experience) will be applied normally. So if you get 10 AP for a battle, all of your materia equipped to that item gains 10 AP. Sometimes though you'll find weapons or armor that have double growth, and a rare few that offer triple growth. And if you have, say, the Platinum Bangle equipped which has double growth, any materia equipped to the Platinum Bangle will get double AP. So 10 AP becomes 20 AP.

It's important to remember that growth only applies to materia that are equipped to that item. So if your armor has double growth but your weapon has normal growth, only your armor-equipped materia will get double growth. The weapon-equipped materia will remain at normal growth. This statistic becomes very useful late-game when some enemies drop hundreds of AP per battle.

Still here? There's more! We've talked about materia, the different types, and how they interact with weapons and armor. But there is one other huge part of this equation that really makes FFVII something special. Do you remember support materia? I mentioned it above in the bulleted list and said I'd explain later. Here's the explanation...

Support materia are a very special type of materia because they have the ability to augment weapons, armor, and other materia. As you play through FFVII you will notice that there are two types of materia slots in most weapon and armor types. There are single slots and linked slots. Single slots are straightforward enough; you put a materia into a single slot and you get that materia's ability. Linked slots are two single slots connected by a link, duh. These linked slots are for support materia and are generally used in conjunction with magic materia, though summons and a select few others may also be used.

This is where things have a tendency to go off the rails because it can be complex, especially if you're new to this. Most magic materia have their own special statistic and that is their elemental attribute. If a materia has an elemental attribute it will be listed in yellow below the materia's name. For instance, Lightning has the lightning elemental attribute. Makes sense, right? The Poison materia has the poison attribute, Time materia has the time attribute, Destruct materia carries the death attribute, and so on.

Now then, keep that in mind as we discuss types of support materia and just what it is that they do. The big name in support materia is the Added Effect materia. This is usually a player's first taste at linking materia and it is simple.

If I have a linked materia slot in my weapon and link a magic materia with Added Effect, my weapon will take on that materia's elemental status effect. So I can equip Poison and Added Effect in my linked weapon slot and my weapon will have a chance to inflict Poison on an enemy.

And if you apply this to armor you'll see a similar impact. By linking Poison and Added Effect on my armor I will gain protection from the poison status effect. This makes it very easy to reequip a party to deal with a new threat and allows for all kinds of interesting combinations.

The Elemental materia acts much the same, but carries a materia's elemental attribute, not its status effect. This could be used in an armor with a Lightning materia to grant your character protection from Lightning elemental attacks. Or used in a weapon to make your gun cause Lightning elemental damage. Furthermore, as your Elemental materia levels up, the level of protection it offers increases. So at base level a Elemental materia linked to Lightning will cause Lightning attacks to do half damage to your character. At the next level Lightning causes no damage. At the next level Lightning attacks will refill your character's HP. It's great!

Plus there are lots of useful support materia out there. The most useful may be the All materia, which when linked will apply a materia's ability to all characters or enemies depending on whether or not the spell is defensive or offensive. So an All linked with Cure will allow you to cure your whole party, rather than just one party member. An All linked with Lightning means Bolt will hit all the enemies on the field, rather than just one.

And there's a whole bunch out there. Stuff like HP-Absorb, Counter, MP Turbo, and Steal as Well just to name a few. These can all be linked together and chained to cause some wild effects on the battlefield.

One other cool tidbit about equips before I get to the final part of this wall of text. If you want to double up on some materia you can! Let's use Lightning again. You could put two Lightning materia on one character, link the first Lightning with Counter Attack and the second Lightning with HP Absorb. The result is that your character will counter with a lightning attack when they are attacked, and if that lightning attack hits, the caster will regain some HP. There are lots of possibilities here. Let your imagination go wild!

That brings us to this last bit and I'm almost at the character limit. There are of course downsides to materia use. Each materia has an impact on your character's stats and the higher level the materia, the more profound those impacts. Most materia impact your health and magic stats. Going back to Lightning, a base level Lightning materia subtract 2% of your max HP and add 2% to your max MP. Equipping lots of materia will lower a character's max HP but improve their Max MP.

These impacts can be countered by using independent materia like HP Plus or MP Plus. But it is important to know how stats are impacted by what you equip. In the case of HP Plus for instance, a level one HP Plus gives a player +10% Max HP. A master level HP Plus will grant a character +50% Map HP. This is true for most materia. As level increases the benefits and the penalties also increase.

Anyway I think that's enough on that. I really enjoy Final Fantasy VII for its mechanics. They are fantastic and you can play a different game every time. The manner in which equipment, materia, and the combat system interface is smooth and very well-built.

If you made it this far thanks for reading and give FFVII a try for its mechanics!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: /lurk on July 31, 2015, 08:37:09 am
You turbonerd, they're not getting rid of the materia system, they're changing the battle system.

And any change to the godawful ATB system is an improvement.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 31, 2015, 09:00:00 am
I disagree entirely.

FFVII is one of the best ATB systems ever created, up there with the likes of Chrono Trigger. The success that Bravely Default did have (and boy was that abortion a success) was because it was a turn-based system. That was the consistent praise, that is was like an older type of RPG and people responded very well to that. It wasn't ATB, but it was turn-based. There is no reason for Square to start mucking around with an excellent system that worked. Their new systems have been complete garbage. Final Fantasy games no longer have any real choice, Bravely Default was incomplete, and I fully expect them to give Cloud the power to fly or something retarded like that because it was in the movie. Why would you trust them to make something worthwhile? They make movies with light interactivity now, not engaging game experiences.

The battle system was a fundamental part of the mechanics. Final Fantasy VII's genius was that they all worked together in sync. If they change it, they have to start adding new things and start changing other aspects of the core design. And Square can't be trusted with that kind of thing. They lack the talent and the vision to make something as good as what has been made in the past. ATB (by the way you play ATB in active mode, not wait mode) slowed the entire experience down and allowed you to put serious thought into your builds. Because yeah, there were builds in FFVII. And each one offered unique and interesting styles of play. Moreover it allowed you to experiment and set goals. I find that when you start speeding up the battle system it becomes more a game of "what is efficient and fast", and it strips away strategic or experimental feel. That's the problem Bravely Default ended up with because of how broken its job system ended up being and how rare status effects were.

ATB offers a different style of play altogether that cannot be replicated by a unrestrained system. And by the way, free-roam and hack and slash systems work great when the game is designed around those aspects. But FFVII wasn't designed that way. Square peg, round hole.

Even adding something as simple as free range of movement throws the system out of whack because now you have a hack-and-slash mechanic going, which means combos and attack chains are going to be introduced, which change the way your stats work. I would be fine with changes is Square were a competent RPG developer anymore. But they aren't. They don't know how to make a good RPG anymore. They have gold sitting in their lap and they're going to start grinding down the edges to replace it with what?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on July 31, 2015, 12:18:45 pm
While FF-7 had the neat materia system, it also had that stupid chocobo system

it was a FF game and therefore 80% of the game is mashing the attack button to grind out levels to make your numbers bigger than theirs.


and pat why you gotta be hating bravely default? The job system and difficulty in that game were perfect
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 31, 2015, 01:03:18 pm
The chocobo breeding stuff was a great sidequest! Racing is a good diversion from the main game. Plus those rewards!!

The problem with Bravely Default (which I put over 100 hours into and fussed around with extensively) is pretty straightforward. Enemy variety and attack variety are very light. Additionally, the combat system does not appear to have been stress tested enough because it is not balanced at all with the job system. But what does that all mean?

Enemy variety is very slim, there just aren't a ton of different monsters out there. Furthermore, the enemies that can inflict status effects are few and far between so simply because of the numbers status effects don't happen very often. And because of this there is no need to train up jobs like Time Mage, Salve-Maker, or Arcanist (among others). The simpler path is to just kill the enemy before it inflicts a status effect, but most of the time the enemy you face can't even do that anyway. And that sucks a lot of the strategy out of the gameplay. My go-to example for this is the Monk class. It just so happens that Monk is my favorite class in these kinds of games, so I chose it early. Monk is absurdly overpowered and its bonuses put it beyond most other classes in terms of damage done. You can pummel nearly every non-boss enemy to death in the first turn such that enemies don't even have a chance to attack you before they die. This is also a larger problem with the game in that most random encounters can be solved by stacking all of your attack turns up and hammering the enemy into the ground with zero chance or retaliation.

The game itself is too easy. But it's easy for a very bad reason, a reason I consider structural. It's not enough to just give enemies more HP and say the game is more balanced because enemies don't seem to have a good grasp of the combat mechanics. RPGs are about optimizing your strategy, and in this case the strategy presents itself right at the start and never changes. It doesn't matter what skills you gain, what new jobs you unlock, or how you build your team. The strategy to win never changes because enemies never adjust. Maybe they will fix this in the sequel, but that is neither here nor there. Enemies are pushovers with the exception of some of the bosses, but even then the bosses are only more difficult because they can't be wiped on the first turn. An enemy will rarely put up defensive skills or try to otherwise diminish your ability to fight it and oftentimes (as mentioned above) they simply never have the chance to.

Bravely Default has a lot of great ideas there, but as a complete package it doesn't meld together. Square did a poor job balancing the mechanics of combat and leveling and it leads to a game that is pathetically easy and very unrewarding.

Not to mention the game is almost entirely linear and the story itself is completely asinine. Definitely in line with the caliber of story and characterization Final Fantasy has turned to in the recent decade. And that just sucks. Bravely Default had so much potential and unfortunately Square did not capitalize on it at all. But they made money with it and are making a sequel and calling it the rebirth of classic RPGs... which Bravely Default is not. They're selling an idea but not a product that can stand with the greats of old.

This is a shadow of what RPGs once were and this rebirth is very disheartening for me. These guys have games like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy VI, and Secret of Mana in their catalog. You'd think they would actually look to why these games were great, rather than constructing their RPG rebirth on the most shallow aspects of any one of them. And to a certain degree I have to blame the fans as well for letting so much of this slide. Yes, there are some very vocal people out there but their pleas get washed out by the sheer amount of idiots that think Lightning is the best thing to happen to characterization and who think FFX was the series' high point. I think a lot of the fans are latching onto aspects other than core game design. And I still play my games for the mechanics first. If the game doesn't have logical or at least serviceable systems, I'm going to have major problems with it because at the end of the day I am here to play a game. All else comes after the mechanics.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: dndfreak on July 31, 2015, 01:24:19 pm
Pat, Bravely Default wasn't developed by Squeenix. They were the publisher, nothing more. It's a really bad example for you to keep drawing on. Bravely Default was Silicon Studios, the company responsible for 3D Dot Game Heroes but mostly just builds graphics engines and other middleware. The gameplay found in Bravely Default was not a system designed nor developed by Square, and using it as a claim that Square can't make battle systems is a failure as an argument regardless of your stance on the game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 31, 2015, 01:39:17 pm
Huh! I guess you're right. I was wrong about the developer.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Ultimatum on July 31, 2015, 01:41:24 pm
I just checked the wiki page and lt lists Square as developers alongside the other studio,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravely_Default  <-----
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 31, 2015, 01:47:08 pm
Either way I don't think it changes any of my complaints. Except for the bit at the end where I went into my personal thoughts about Square, which I fought with myself about including. Usually because my personal thoughts are what gets ripped up in stuff like this and then everyone ignores my actual argument. Case in point...

Next time I won't include my personal thoughts. Gotta go with the gut on that one every time. I don't know why I ignore it.

Cue the start of ten weeks of me kicking myself for including it. GAD sucks. Uggggggh...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 31, 2015, 01:56:36 pm
So anyway, back on topic. Bravely Default sucks.

You can respond to that now because my argument is in no way invalid. I just look like the idiot retard that I am thanks to captain buzzkill up there.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on July 31, 2015, 02:02:24 pm
Ok pat, I'm not a good at writing out rebuttals, but here's my 2 cents


Materia isn't as amazing a system as you think it to be, it was basically just a dumbed down job/magicite system from the prior games and even then the more unique attributes of the system were more of a hassle, such as forcing you to now link ALL materia to even make most spells useful for the purpose of clearing trash fights. Sure you could swap around the elemental attributes and stuff for weapons and armor, but as far as I remember you can't swap materia mid fight, and I highly doubt you'd have the hindsight while playing your first time to swap in that thunder materia to do some extra damage against that suprise mecha boss about to come up in the next room. The same goes for giving yourself resistances, its a total moot point when everyone in your party can learn Esuna/Cure and most status debuffs aren't horribly crippling that you can't just continue to swing your sword at the enemies until they die.

Then there's ATB, I don't hate it nor do I enjoy it, personally I prefer turn based to plan out my order of attacks and know whose going when, with ATB you have generally zero idea of when your opponent will attack and it can leave you in some annoying situations where you queued up that cure 3 to save a team mates life only to have them die because the monster got to attack just as you finish and makes you waste that heal entirely.

What i'm trying to say is that ff-7 is just the mentally challenged offspring of ff-6, which should have been remade instead of 7 clearly
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 31, 2015, 02:22:00 pm
Nah that was a fine response!

I'm not sure though that the magicite system and the materia system can be compared in that fashion. Magicite (FFVI, right?) worked in that it would grant a character an ability and once you trained that ability up, you could keep it on a character even after the associated magicite was removed. But then it would cost you the use of that magicite's esper as well. On the other hand, materia grants abilities so long as you keep that materia on a character and removing it also removes the ability no matter how much you've trained it.

I did not include it in my post, I think. Wait, let me check. No, I didn't say anything about it but to your point about hindsight and knowing what to expect, you are right. A player wouldn't know how to use so-and-so materia on this boss versus that boss. That only comes with multiple playthroughs. (which I recommend!) Though for random encounters you can definitely infer what types of creatures you will be up against because FFVII (unlike Bravely Default) has lots of enemy variety and each "level" represents some kind of elemental affinity that can be cleaned from two or three random encounters in a specific area.

On your point about Esuna, while the Heal materia can be picked up early (after you leave Midgar/turorial zone), accruing the amount of AP required to learn Esuna takes a long while and you'll be leveling up your other materia as well, though once you do get it, Esuna is very useful. FFVII does also have some completely broken abilities in the form of the Enemy Skill materia. Big Guard comes to mind. So broken.

But I would contend that while the materia system isn't perfect and can absolutely be gamed or manipulated, it works together more coherently with the other systems in place, where a game like BD has systems that do not mesh at all. Part of the fun of the materia system is that it is broken - that's also why I praise FFVI so much and even like it more... because it's more broken. But you have to earn that brokenness, if that makes any sense. You still have to toil away and learn the system before you can figure out how to manipulate aspects of the system.

Make no mistake, I have no problem with games that end up being broken after a certain point, in fact I prefer that type of game. If you can make your characters into gods or "the walking apocalypse" as my one buddy calls it, that is awesome. That's exactly what I look for in RPGs. And I think part of my issue with BD was that it breaks far too early, like... level 10. That's nuts. I wanna put in at least a couple dozen hours and get to level 50, 60, or 70 before the game's mechanics start to wobble and break. It should feel earned, rather than simply poor design.

As for your complaints about ATB, I agree and can feel your pain. Lining up attacks in ATB is especially difficult when you have the system set to "active" rather than "wait". And even with "wait" mode enabled you can't depend on attacks having the desired effect. Which is why I usually just go "active" because **** it haha!!

But on your final point I disagree entirely. Though maybe it is more of a technical type of disagreement. I would consider FFVI and FFIX to be similar types of games mechanically speaking (IX is the one that treats accessory equips like magicite in VI). I wouldn't put FFVII in that same category in terms of VII's combat and equip mechanics. Now, in terms of story, characters, and pacing? I'd say FFVI is absolutely superior to FFVII and that VII frankly rips off a lot of what VI did well and amps it up to 11. Which isn't really doing anything new, different, or better. It's just making a caricature of what came before.

Dude great response! I love it. Keep responding, don't be timid, man. You play all these games so you have valid input to add. It gets us talking which is hard to find anymore on the net in snippets longer than two sentences. :D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Krakow Sam on July 31, 2015, 02:28:24 pm
Lurk, Pat if I might interject?

Final fantasy is bad because their swords are too big.

Check mate.

Four years on and none of you have managed to find an answer to this ultimate move.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on July 31, 2015, 02:31:29 pm
I agree with you on Bravely Default, not sure if you played it on the hardest difficulty or not but it was a bit more challenging but even at everything capped out you had to use cheese strategies for most of the big end-game fights since bosses would basically one shot you without stacked resistance, but hasten world + super jump was so silly to watch as oroboros sat there unable to do anything to 4 kids playing leap frog with his head.


I'm personally excited for the remake since 7 was still a fun game. Unfortunately I highly expect Cloud will be his dull emo self that square made him into. That and honeybee inn will get cut....
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 31, 2015, 02:35:40 pm
The reason I didn't want them to mess with the mechanics too much was because at least if they left them the same, there'd still be something fun for me to play between listening to Cloud bitch with full voice acting in 7.1 surround. But if they start fussing with those mechanics... maaaan. I dunno, the word "cinematic" keeps flashing in my mind and that's no good. That's just no good at all.

Because Square is the kind of company that would use all their "innovations" from the last few Final Fantasy games in this remake. Part of the fun of the characters in the older FF games was what was implied or left unsaid. New FF has all the subtly of a brick through the window. :P

(http://i.imgur.com/KNh6xXB.jpg)
(been looking for a chance to use this one for a while and I think this is as close as I'll get)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: dndfreak on July 31, 2015, 02:36:41 pm
I just checked the wiki page and lt lists Square as developers alongside the other studio,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravely_Default  <-----

It says that with no source, and on the entire page the only party mentioned as having hand in development was Silicon. I actually checked the Bravely Default wikia, which lists only Silicon as developer. http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Bravely_Default

Anyways...

On the topic of JRPG strategy, I will say the only one I've actually played that takes more than auto attacks, having a white mage and making numbers bigger has been Golden Sun (though the DS one is much easier than the original two). Golden Sun has what's called the Djinn system, which is comparable to Materia except that you get a million more and rather than equipment having a set number of slots, each weapon had it's own special attack and experience as well. Djinn that are equipped (Set) each have four elements, and the number and combination of each element on a character determines every aspect of their stats, not to mention their entire list of available spells.

In addition to normal spells, each Djinn also has a unique active which could be anything from buffs or debuffs to damage to a full party revive to all manner of status ailments in all combinations. Using a Djinn for their active changes them from Set to Standby, meaning that when a character uses these abilities their stats and spell list both start to decrease.

Any character can spend up to six standby Djinn at a time, no matter who put them there, to invoke a summon of any of a large list of possible element combinations. The more elements the lower the raw damage, but it becomes hybridized and pushes past defenses easier. Each invoked summon also gives the character which summoned them a buff to damage of the elements used for the rest of the battle, and after a couple turns, the Djinn are returned as Set to their original owners. What this means is that if the character which does the summoning has all their Djinn still set, their numbers will be higher and the Summon's damage will be higher, but if they invoke summons not of their element the buff will be useless. The more Djinn you have on standby the bigger summons you can make and the more efficient your turns, but having too few Djinn set leaves your defenses crippled and your party open to attack. There are some crucial Djinn actives that are situational, such as a max revive for a single character, and you will have to decide for each ability you use if it's worth making yourself more fragile as a whole and if you can afford to not have that ability for another four or five rounds of combat. The more aggressively you Summon the faster you get your Djinn back, but the damage each deals and the buff they grant is drastically weaker as well.

Essentially what I'm saying is that if you think Materia maakes FFVII an in-depth customizable JRPG, you probably haven't played enough Golden Sun and you should go do that.

Realistically speaking, the fact is that FFVII's ATB system actually relied on pure hardware time, and was built to handle impossibly low framerates only (which is part of the reason why the PC port was infamously unplayable back in the day). The battle system needed to be re-written anyways in order to support modern hardware and cross-platforming, so I see no real harm in tweaking a few things here and there. Keep in mind that the article you linked does NOT say anything about mechanics changes, only visual, and using the artistic direction and style of Advent Children for reference. I took it to mean largely a cosmetic style change, which probably involves the same changes made with FFX where there was a dynamic camera and characters moved fluidly back and forth to attack. Even better, they may go a step beyond and we'll have the equivalent of a 3D rendered Chrono Trigger, if they're using the fluidity of AC as their frame of reference.

Even if they do change up something, sure, it could be worse, but that doesn't mean VII is perfect and untouchable either. I doubt it would ever near the level of depth Golden Sun added to Materia, but maybe a bit more toward Chrono Trigger in terms of in-game action and team coordination can't be a bad thing.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 31, 2015, 02:38:13 pm
I just checked the wiki page and lt lists Square as developers alongside the other studio,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravely_Default  <-----

It says that with no source, and on the entire page the only party mentioned as having hand in development was Silicon. I actually checked the Bravely Default wikia, which lists only Silicon as developer. http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Bravely_Default

Wanted to respond to this real quick before I get to the meat of your post, dnd. I was looking around at lots of older reviews in the last ten or twenty minutes and it seems to be a very common mistake, which I guess is unsurprising since games media sucks. But lots of reviews are also saying Square made it. I suppose Square having an interest in publishing more reinforces that, though the point still stands that Square did not make the game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: dndfreak on July 31, 2015, 02:45:12 pm
I just remember the tidbit about BD because it was around the same time Theaterythm launched and I'd seen an interview with the devs of that game, who wasn't Square either. They were basically just fans of the franchise who got the idea for the FF offshoot and Square said go ahead, and better yet, we'll publish it. The BD team had a similar story where it was guys who were big fans of early Final Fantasy titles who just wanted to make something more in that vein and they reached out to Square. Wish I still had it somewhere, but it's lost to the internet somewhere by now.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 31, 2015, 02:48:46 pm
Funny that you mention Golden Sun. I was supposed to borrow it from a friend of mine in 2002. Never did and he moved away, so I never got to play it.

I've been told I should play Grandia I and II. But Golden Sun is on the list before them because I also want to play Golden Sun 2. I emulated it once but never played past the first ten minutes. Emulation isn't the same. Though more to your later point, I would agree that FFVII is in no way deeply customizable. Its got basic customization, but I really like the way it all works together. It makes a nice, complete package.

Funny though that you mention the PC version of FFVII being unplayable back in the day. I never owned a PS1 (or a PS2 until a couple years ago) and originally played (and replayed many many times) FFVII on PC. I've still got my old discs and that wonky box it all came in. Never encountered many issues with FFVII PC until operating systems started to evolve, and mostly then it was just a crash at the chocobo races. But maybe I was lucky and my experience was atypical. I also wouldn't worry too much about having to rewrite the ATB system for newer hardware because if it really is tied to framerates, they can just scrap that and bind it to a character's speed statistic.

Sorry, fans of Square Enix's Active Time Battle system, but it sounds like the Final Fantasy 7 Remake is going a different direction for its combat.

Quote from: http://www.gamesradar.com/ff7-final-fantasy-7-remake-combat-dramatic-changes-advent-children/
Sorry, fans of Square Enix's Active Time Battle system, but it sounds like the Final Fantasy 7 Remake is going a different direction for its combat. Speaking to Official PlayStation Magazine, game director Tetsuya Nomura said that the team will be making "dramatic changes" to the game's fights. "And of course, that being said we want to clarify: We’re not going to be changing it into a shooter or something like that. We are going to be bringing dramatic changes, but we want to make sure it’s still recognizable."

Though I do read that as "they are changing the mechanics"... so I disagree with you there.

On Theatrhythm. Theatrhythm is awesome! The first game is excellent!! The second game is okay. It has lots more songs, which is cool. But they tweaked the mechanics in Theatrhythm 2 and it's both easier and less-reliable. Which disappoints me.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: dndfreak on July 31, 2015, 03:05:21 pm
I played far more than was healthy of both versions. I liked TR1 plenty, TR2 added a lot of options in terms of synergistic abilities for BMS and creating all sorts of combo things and feeling like a cool guy. TR2 also changed it so score is tied purely to note accuracy and has nothing to do with the numbers on characters, whereas to get 9999999 in TR1 you had to unequip all abilities from your party, who had to be all lv 99. Score is more skill dependent in TR2 whereas the numbers just tie into your loot, and I prefer it that way.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on July 31, 2015, 03:22:15 pm
I almost maxed out my rhythmia in Theatrhythm but I stopped playing around 75000 or something. But since I like that game more I plan to go back and finish it someday.

Stoic mode is the way to go, man! I love it! But I really dislike that it is useless in Theatrhythm 2 and only ended up putting something like... wait I'll just check. One second (though you won't notice)...

I crapped away 64 hours and 19 minutes in Theatrhythm 1 and ended up with 72950 rhythmia and for Theatrhythm 2... 17 hours and 14 minutes and 17382 rhythmia. Also what's up with these losers playing in button mode? Stylus mode or bust. If you can't do it in stylus mode you should just go home. Maybe I'll get back into Theatrhythm. Was so hyped for it when it came out and certainly played it but I am disappointed that I never really finished it. The main reason I got Theatrhythm 2 was for the multiplayer, but my buddy who I used to play it with never wants to play. :(

But yeah man, SSS should be as hard to get in TR2 as it was in TR1. Really disliked that they made it easier.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gauphastus on August 01, 2015, 10:51:00 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8SM2CSLsro
For anyone interested.
I'ma probably get dis.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 01, 2015, 10:52:15 am
Yo I'm down. This looks pretty great!

If only Fantasy Life was a bit more like this.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on August 01, 2015, 01:19:13 pm
If it has more than local co-op, then maybe


since its basically a monster hunter rip off it NEEDS a way to properly co-op when you don't have friends
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 01, 2015, 01:31:10 pm
If they're trying to be like Monster Hunter the first thing they need to do is make the game not suck.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on August 01, 2015, 02:23:40 pm
but its final fantasy, that's too much to ask for!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 01, 2015, 02:26:57 pm
Gauph and I were looking at the trailer the other day and noticed...

"Transform into your favorite Final Fantasy characters"

First character they show is Lightning. I mean, that really tells you all you need to know about where Square's priorities are and what they consider quality work.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: dndfreak on August 01, 2015, 03:14:32 pm
Or the fact that the majority of DS owners are probably kids that weren't even born the last time VII launched? It's not like they wouldn't include all the classic fan favorites, but when marketing you got to know the audience you need to draw. With a JRPG series in which die-hard fans will buy pretty much anything, that's not the group you need to pander to. Just saying.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 01, 2015, 03:28:26 pm
:U

Lightning is a **** character with shallow design. She's a terrible mascot for the series moving forward and the game she represents is a wasteland of ideas and gameplay. And that Square keeps pushing her as the new face of Final Fantasy tells me that they aren't making games for me anymore. I'm not their audience and they don't care about me.

You're absolutely right that they are trying to appeal to their new audience. And I think their new audience are morons that will like anything that appeals to their simple idea of what makes a story good. They are fickle and they like newSquare because newSquare pumps out teenage drama junk. Junk that will not stand the test of time because it lacks depth and and generally lacks worthy game mechanics.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 01, 2015, 03:34:50 pm
And you know what the worst part is? This FFVII remake they're doing, this is the last bullet they have before they need to reload.

They've expended all of their top properties. They can't rely on that stuff anymore once the remake comes out. What happens then? Then they have to start making new games with new ideas. It's no coincidence that they've suddenly started releasing sequels and spin-offs. Square are out of ideas. Maybe they'll make it work and I doubt they'll go away any time soon, but you can't sit there and tell me that the quality of their games has not dropped tremendously over the last ten years. There's a reason they are trotting out the money makers and franchising their intellectual properties.

Once the remake is out in the wild then Square will be tested and we'll see if they still have it. It's been years and years of tapping into the reserve and now it's going to go empty. I sincerely hope they can make something amazing, but I very much doubt they have the talent to do so. What seems likely to me is that they'll stay on this track of going for the low-hanging fruit and hoping beyond hope that people don't get wise to it. After all, there's always going to be a new generation of teenagers looking for their fix of garbage.

Game mechanics? What are those? You mean the things that get in the way of the cool-ass cutscenes and baller music segments? :|||||||||
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 01, 2015, 03:43:26 pm
By the way, I am hamming it up a bit.

But my general point kinda shines through. :P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: dndfreak on August 01, 2015, 03:57:13 pm
I'd also like to point out that every game in the Final Fantasy brand except maybe the first one is entirely about, as you put it, 'teen drama junk'. Including other square titles, like Chrono Trigger, which were definitely a part of old pre-merger Squaresoft. Even in IV, where Cecil and Kain are technically 20 and 21, the only aspect of their personalities is a mutual attraction toward childhood friend Rosa that causes them to be b****y toward each other. If that isn't some quality Twilight fan-fiction, I don't know what is.

It isn't modern square that makes jrpg characters with teen angst. It's every jrpg developer that does it. And they always have. You may not have noticed until more recent games for two reasons. The first is voice acting and the second is that you're no longer an angst-fueled teen yourself.

If you go back and play older FF games, as in pre-VII, the main protagonist will have close to zero dialog throughout the entire game. They used to take the same silent protagonist approach every game in the era did, because silent characters allowed for self-insertion and invited the players to care. The problem is that, with the advent of FMVs as well as later full voice acting, it quickly becomes out of place for the main character to not have any say in what goes on in front of them. So, they're given lines. If Lightning is bland, that's actually a return to Square's roots in which the main protagonist is simply an insert through which the player can easily 'become' the character. The DS and GBA before it have gotten remakes of I through VI, not to mention virtual console, meaning younger audiences have gotten a chance to play these but not VII, VIII, IX, X, XII. The games where the main protagonist develops a voice. Lightning is right up their alley not because it's a departure from Square's roots, but because she's as close a return to their roots as modern technology and production quality allows.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 01, 2015, 04:07:17 pm
I'd also like to point out that every game in the Final Fantasy brand except maybe the first one is entirely about, as you put it, 'teen drama junk'.

I AGREE ENTIRELY!! It's like you were in my head while I was writing that because I kept saying the same thing to myself.

That is why Square leaving game mechanics behind is so baffling to me. It's such a poor strategy that will not pay off for them in the long term because the reason their old games are so memorable is because of the mechanics and gameplay and not the story. Sure, some bits of story are famous, but the reason people keep going back to those games are because they offer unique and fun gameplay variations in an evolving genre. It's funny too because you can see the seeds of what Square was to become. Chrono Trigger is an excellent example of potential left on the table. ATB 2.0 was never used again after Chrono Trigger. It was never expanded upon or improved, it was just left to die. That blows my mind!! It was such a good system, especially for its time. And Square just leaves it there as if they were SEGA throwing out the mechanics of a mediocre Sonic game to make yet another mediocre game from scratch.

If they insist on dropping mechanics and instead keep trying to make interactive movies and cinema, they're going to burn the hell out. The reason people responded to Bravely Default was because of the gameplay and mechanics. And while those mechanics were incomplete and broken in many aspects, it was still head and shoulders better than the other things Square puts their name on. What Square offers nowadays is an illusion. It is not sustainable.


**EDIT**
Oh, and for the record, the first Final Fantasy game is a broken piece of ****. Dragon Quest came out a full year before it and they didn't learn anything from it and instead released an inferior game that by all means should have been better mechanically. Oh the rage younger me had.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: eropS on August 01, 2015, 05:08:27 pm
meh i like Final Fantasy 1. The Black/White/Red dynamic is fun, the other classes are also fun to be. 'Upgrading' halfway through the game and become total badass classes is tons of fun, I love evolving classes and pity that more games dont make use of it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 01, 2015, 05:15:58 pm
Oh yeah that stuff is cool. It's more or less just one thing.

What I dislike is how attack priority doesn't shift if the enemy you've targeted dies. Warriors attacks the empty space for zero damage.

Great. I guess I was born a little too late to really appreciate what those games did. And they are still fun. But oh man... the rage. THE RAGE CAGE!!

At least in Dragon Warrior they anticipated this and only really had you fight one enemy.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: eropS on August 01, 2015, 05:49:32 pm
I always thought it was an oldschool penalty for overkill
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: dndfreak on August 01, 2015, 06:13:48 pm
Square abandoned the Chrono Trigger design at the time because systems could barely handle it. The SNES cart was worked to the bone and the only reason it was doable was because the time travel mechanic allowed aggressive reuse of enemy sprites and areas. A year after CT's launch, the N64 happened and the new 3D craze meant that any new release would be overlooked if it used sprites over polygons, or at least that's how most everyone in the industry felt.

FFVII, the next game from Square fresh after CT, was originally intended to be a SNES game, then N64, before moving to the playstation. Each change happened because the more things were added to the game and the more detailed they became, the N64 carts couldn't fit it all and even then the PS1 needed multiple discs. Technology at the time would simply not allow Square to release a game which would appeal to audiences of the day while retaining the combat system of CT.

If you want to try something similar, look into Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood. The way it works is that rather than true ATB, faster characters get more entries in the initiative order for each round, so a character like Sonic might still have two attacks to make at the end of the round after everyone else is done and waiting. However, it does feature double/triple techs, a lack of random encounters (if I remember right) and it also uses the DS touch screen for super mario rpg styled action commands.

As for FF1 target swap, they added that back in for some of the later re-releases. Dragon Quest used a different sort of targeting because early DQ battles were based on Wizardry rules, which were one monster/group at a time and your party was never on the screen.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 02, 2015, 05:29:56 am
Can I ask you something? And I'll probably end up looking like a doofus or someone will find a reason to take a shot at me for "attacking the argument and not the content" or whatever. But. (by the way please don't do that just because I've said it, my anxiety has been at a fever pitch this weekend and I don't need it right now) :(

Are you just going to websites and wikis and looking stuff up to counter everything I'm saying? Because your responses seem increasingly pedantic and lifeless, which is sucking all the fun out of this. Like...

If you want to try something similar, look into Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood. The way it works is that rather than true ATB, faster characters get more entries in the initiative order for each round, so a character like Sonic might still have two attacks to make at the end of the round after everyone else is done and waiting. However, it does feature double/triple techs, a lack of random encounters (if I remember right) and it also uses the DS touch screen for super mario rpg styled action commands.

This is great! This is the most interesting thing you've said this entire time, just about. Everything else seems like stuff I can just go find on a wiki, which I can and have done many times. Plus it's a bit frustrating because you seem to be responding to me as if you think I know nothing. Yes, I know subsequent releases of Final Fantasy fixed the problem I have. But that wasn't what I was talking about, I was reflecting back on my own personal experience with the game and describing what bugged me. Why bring up Final Fantasy VII originally being planned for the N64? That's old news. I lived that! Come on, have some respect for my own experience.

And bring in more of your experience, that's what I want to discuss. That's real and interesting. If I want "just the facts" all day, I can look it up myself or try hard to remember. I want to talk to a person, not a fact vomiting machine. You seem very different from when you were last on the forum. It's not a bad thing or a good thing. But you just seem really really different and distant. Where are you? I wanna have a discussion with YOU! :D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 02, 2015, 07:12:26 am
More to the topic at hand.

Looks like they're re-releasing FFXII. Jesus... that game is still perfectly playable. Unless they intend to fix the bull**** with Vaan being the main character. But even then Square are too inept to make anything of it. ****, man. Just when I thought they couldn't get any dumber. And of course the retarded fans are stumbling over themselves about how excited they are and how much they want this new game and can't wait. Hopefully it'll be the international version with the restricted license boards so things are a bit more interesting. Otherwise though why not just get that one? Do people really need more shinies?

Fuuuuuuuuuuu-

:U
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: /lurk on August 02, 2015, 08:00:24 am
Maybe they can have more than one spell on screen at a time.


Actually that would be enough of a change that I'd want to play it again on PC.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 02, 2015, 10:50:15 am
Despite its flaws, I really did enjoy FFXII. It gave me what I had wanted for quite some time and I am not being facetious when I say it. FFXII was the best single player MMO I could have asked for. It was a really good time! The story was kinda WUT and a lot of the characters were WUT (though not nearly as bad as what was to come) but the gameplay was pretty neat. They even included the broken-ass gambit system that let you break everything beyond recognition if you really wanted to.

That was neat! Also I agree with Lurk.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 02, 2015, 11:44:50 am
Oh my god hahahahah!! I love this quote from Nomura.

Quote from: http://venturebeat.com/2015/06/17/nomura-wants-more-final-fantasy-remakes-but-not-from-the-playstation-era/
“Considering that we have remakes of Final Fantasy up to IV and then we have VII — I’ve been working with Mr. [Yoshinori] Kitase since Final Fantasy V, and we’ve noticed that V and VI are missing. That bothers me,” Nomura said. “How come we skipped over those two?”
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on August 02, 2015, 12:39:15 pm
I hope if they do remake 6 with voice acting and all that fancy jazz, they get Dave Wittenberg to voice him again, I loved him in dissidia
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 02, 2015, 12:42:39 pm
I'll accept voice acting, but they better not fix the broken bits. :D

Just redownloaded My FFCC: Life as a King onto my Wii U. Still have my save files and everything. Did any of you ever play that one? It's a really good game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Celdur on August 02, 2015, 07:16:11 pm
Yeah, I played that for a bit. Never got too far though.

Also if they remake 5 and 6 it should be the same as the 3 and 4 remakes, I quite liked those.
The music was very well done too.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: dndfreak on August 03, 2015, 03:24:27 am
Can I ask you something? And I'll probably end up looking like a doofus or someone will find a reason to take a shot at me for "attacking the argument and not the content" or whatever. But. (by the way please don't do that just because I've said it, my anxiety has been at a fever pitch this weekend and I don't need it right now) :(

Are you just going to websites and wikis and looking stuff up to counter everything I'm saying? Because your responses seem increasingly pedantic and lifeless, which is sucking all the fun out of this. Like...

If you want to try something similar, look into Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood. The way it works is that rather than true ATB, faster characters get more entries in the initiative order for each round, so a character like Sonic might still have two attacks to make at the end of the round after everyone else is done and waiting. However, it does feature double/triple techs, a lack of random encounters (if I remember right) and it also uses the DS touch screen for super mario rpg styled action commands.

This is great! This is the most interesting thing you've said this entire time, just about. Everything else seems like stuff I can just go find on a wiki, which I can and have done many times. Plus it's a bit frustrating because you seem to be responding to me as if you think I know nothing. Yes, I know subsequent releases of Final Fantasy fixed the problem I have. But that wasn't what I was talking about, I was reflecting back on my own personal experience with the game and describing what bugged me. Why bring up Final Fantasy VII originally being planned for the N64? That's old news. I lived that! Come on, have some respect for my own experience.

And bring in more of your experience, that's what I want to discuss. That's real and interesting. If I want "just the facts" all day, I can look it up myself or try hard to remember. I want to talk to a person, not a fact vomiting machine. You seem very different from when you were last on the forum. It's not a bad thing or a good thing. But you just seem really really different and distant. Where are you? I wanna have a discussion with YOU! :D

Well, I brought stuff like the FFVII system swap to support the point that hardware limitations were a defining reason for why Square never re-used the Chrono Trigger engine, which you said baffled you and never understood why that was the case. Hence info dump. I'll admit I check reference if I'm not 100% sure on something, but I'm not just throwing stuff out there without reason.

As far as different as a person, I dunno. I worked for a while as part of a team of five designing a card game for a software company based out of Hanoi, and we mostly used forums for communication. I think maybe I've just gotten used to a different style of posting that's less personal and more research paper-y, at least once debate starts. That kind of thing happens when you're supposed to be professional and whatever you type will be up there forever for everyone to see and pick apart.

I'm also not 16, so there's that.

The reason I'm not asserting more of a personal take when it comes to Lightning and all those shenanigans is that I haven't actually played XIII myself, so while I can comment on the ideas being discussed I don't feel comfortable asserting an opinion on a game I haven't actually played. So I talk about Square and its past and games like Chrono Trigger because I've actually played these things. If I'm coming off as hollow because I'm not confronting the initial topic on the head, it's because I actually can't. Not honestly, anyways.



Have you recently played FFXII, by the way? Because I had been a couple weeks back, and my honest opinion is that it does need a remake. The game looks okay, sure, about as good as the PS2 ever got, but the UI was a complete mess. The game played essentially like Dragon Age: Origins, but with a FF menu instead of a hotbar. That much is fine, but a game like Dragon Age shines with the ability to pause the game to assess the situation, swap between your characters and give them instruction when necessary. It's the same formula that put Black Isle Studios on the map. The problem is that there are two pauses in FFXII, and neither does what you want.

The first, using Start, is akin to Kingdom Hearts. It freezes out all your controls, as well as the camera. You can pause that way, but it doesn't actually help you. The second form of pause is that the game stops time whenever you open the command menu, which is good. However, while in this mode, you lack free camera control, so you still don't get a good view of the situation. And you can't order, or even examine the statuses of, your fellow party members. Instead, you have to make them the active character first, using the command menu. And each time you do, it forces the game to unpause, making you reopen the menu, select your command, at which time it unpauses again. And now you have to reopen the menu a third time and go through the process for your other character before returning back to the party leader. With an option to not close the menu upon selecting a command or changing leaders, as well as more camera freedom, the game could've been able to stand the test of time for me. But it doesn't, so it didn't. Battles in XII are meant to flow really well, but they feel clunky and laborious and slow, and the fix is pretty easy.

The map(s) for that game were also pretty horrible. An objective would be marked on your minimap, but there was no compass, the way that modern games will have icons for important locations at the minimap border if you're too far from them. So it only helps when you're already there anyways. You could mark a location on the map using a pin, but as it wouldn't show up on your minimap and there's no way to track locations, it was hardly useful. On the mechanics side of things, the junk system was pretty terrible, especially compared to the upgraded versions used the FF Tactics series (FFTA predates FFXII and uses a far superior loot mechanic). I don't know if they'd take the time to redo that, but surely the UI fissues will get fixed up and the game may actually become playable for a modern audience.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 03, 2015, 06:48:31 am
Ah, okay I am better informed now. Thanks for the response!! Sorry if it seemed goofy. :P

To the topic at hand, I should go back and fire up 12 again to see how it is. I played it as recently as... two years ago? Three? I guess my stance on it is that the game may be a bit rough around the edges, but (late)PS2 era games are more than playable in my book and don't need to be remade. Especially if it is going to be taking resources away from any new games like FF15 or Kingdom Hearts...4? It's 4, right?

I get why they're doing it, I mean least of which is that they can remake it and people will buy it. But it doesn't seem super necessary. Like Celdur says, if they want to remake anything, patch the hole in the library and do some really nice remakes of 5 and 6 like they did their earlier remakes. Those 3DS remakes, while not perfect were still really good!! I like my remakes and whatnot but it seems like there are better candidates than 12. Also Sony has really annoyed me with the way they are remaking games that are like... two years old. And people go for it like it's a gift from baby jesus. :U

One thing that would interest me in a FF12 remake is the likely chance that they are going to include the extra license boards from the International edition. Someone had left a comment on an article saying that the 10 remake had stuff from an updated version of the original, so that's pretty neat.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on August 03, 2015, 12:21:17 pm
Yes, the FF X remaster had improved graphics as well as the international edition which had the advanced sphere grid as well as the post game bosses, dark eidolons. It's a decent remastering except you get stuck with also buying FF X-2.

Also we are still on KH 3 because the team responsible for it has been busy on FF 15, which is why we have gotten so many spinoff titles for it instead of the main game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gauphastus on August 04, 2015, 11:33:00 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXMJTGna_xA

I dunno what it is but everything I've seen about Final Fantasy XV looks alright to me.
Like.. even FFXIII gave me bad vibes from the start. Some games just do that.
Not this one though for some reason. I'd like to try it out. Unfortunately I don't have a PS4 or bone so I'm banking on the PC release rumor being true.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on August 05, 2015, 03:44:35 am
FF XV is going to reinvigorate the series!

but seriously I love the aesthetics and hey, the plot seems to not be about the stupid f'alcie crap from xiii and more on evil empire vs the crystal magic kingdoms which I'm all down for


also who doesn't want to go on a roadtrip with the backstreet boys?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 05, 2015, 08:17:55 am
Definitely looks better than previous incarnations. I just hope grandpa doesn't start fighting bullets with his sword or whateve.r

Here's hoping they make something decent. I'd like that. But I won't hold my breath.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 18, 2015, 08:05:51 am
Anyone familiar with Legend of Legacy? It looks pretty neat, but it has been drawing comparisons with Bravely Default. And as we know, Square botched the hell out of that game so comparing another game to it makes me worry. But this review (http://www.rpgamer.com/games/legendlegacy/legendlegacy/reviews/legendlegacystrev1.html) also says it has very minimal story, which is a good thing since the exploration and mechanics are supposed to be solid.


**EDIT**
Guess I'll find out in a couple months. Ordered it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on August 18, 2015, 05:14:35 pm
So type-O on steam is a train wreck

don't suggest you play it
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on August 18, 2015, 06:02:40 pm
Ah... thank you for that tip. I was wondering about it.

How'd they mess it up?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on August 19, 2015, 04:35:13 am
well graphics wise, its locked at 30 fps, zero actual changes you can make regarding anything (AA and shadows and that's it) and it only supports 720 and 1080 resolutions. Not to mention the games cut scenes have random frame rate drops and look worse than the game because they weren't remodeled.

story wise, its set in the ff-13 universe so its just more evil empires and their L'cie or whatever causing trouble in goody two shoes town. the english voice acting has less emotion than keanu reeves, and the models look like inanimate bricks half the time you see them up close.

game-play wise it plays kind of similar to a dumbed down crisis core, you get 13 characters off the bat to pick each with their own set of stats that affect what magic they can use to compliment their weapon/ability. problem with having so many choices is a large chunk of them are totally worthless a few hours into the game because only your 3 active party members gain XP, and if you have the SP system on (causes random npcs to take over your other 2 party member slots, but gets you rarer item drops) then you will generally be stuck playing the game with a single main party while the rest sit on the sidelines being worthless. Most of the combat is generally dull as well, simply mashing dodge until the lock on reticle flickers red so you get an instant kill attack or just spamming thunder since every enemy is mechanical and since you only ever really have an attack button and magic button you generally just play one of the characters with a gun and run around doing that. Worst of all is the camera when locked on does not like to sit still with all the dodging you'll be doing and will flip and point every single way except the way to get the locked on enemy to appear on screen.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on September 10, 2015, 06:58:12 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KojZW87Is8

This is puke-tier. What were they thinking?? :|
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gauphastus on September 10, 2015, 07:39:22 pm
Haha, it's using those awful HD sprites.
Fantastic.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: dndfreak on September 10, 2015, 07:53:14 pm
Reuse assets, free money. That's exactly what they're thinking, and it's definitely nothing new.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: eropS on September 10, 2015, 09:07:56 pm
all the classes look neat. what is FFV?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on September 11, 2015, 07:10:37 am
The fifth Final Fantasy game. 8)

It's where the giant-sized job system comes from. You should find an emulator and play it that way. I always say I never played this game, but I remember a lot of scenes that they showed in that awful trailer up there. So apparently I have played a fan translation or something and I just forgot about it. The reason I don't like that trailer is because the sprites look terrible and the animation on them looks terrible and the game looks like it is running on an emulator with a terrible filter. But yeah, looks like they released a GBA version at some point. You should try that one!

You have to search the world for the crystals to stop an evil power and there's a bunch of neat things to see and do. And at one point I think there's a boat with an engine room where I stopped playing. :U
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gauphastus on September 11, 2015, 07:26:09 am
I quit after the world was restored and it turned into a freeroam thing. It's funny 'cause it's sorta the reverse in FFVI, where the world gets destroyed and turns into a freeroam thing.
The lore for FFV is pretty neat.

Ignore The After Years. It ruins everything pretty brazenly.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on September 11, 2015, 09:07:28 am
After years if IV, right?

I played some of that. It was weird.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on September 11, 2015, 09:16:16 am
Yeah FF-4 is cecil and the moon crap

5 is giant evil death tree and buttz
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on September 11, 2015, 09:22:40 am
I guess FFII is the only one I never played then.

Guess I should get on that.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: eropS on September 11, 2015, 09:33:06 am
What 5 was before 4?!

And 2 is the one with the weird weapon skill level nonsense. I remember not liking it in the dual FF1/2 gba game
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on September 11, 2015, 10:17:53 am
Well FF1 sucks.

So I guess it makes sense that FF2 also sucks.

3-9 is where it's at. :3

8 can stay because Garden battles are pretty cool. Also Selphie. She likes trains so she's cool.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on September 11, 2015, 10:21:33 am
TRIPLE TRIAD!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Ultimatum on September 11, 2015, 10:30:23 am
Did someone say trains

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4VjvBaMHJg
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: eropS on September 11, 2015, 03:40:33 pm
.... I loved FF1... Upgrading classes, basic good v evil story, custom party, good distinction between classes. Was funfor basically the first real video game RPG
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on September 11, 2015, 06:51:24 pm
I didn't like it because it is broken as **** on the NES. ;D

Dragon Quest, yo.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Slinky on September 11, 2015, 07:41:38 pm
You know what broken, ugly RPG I really wanna play on the NES? Ultima Exodus.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on September 29, 2015, 08:03:07 pm
Hey look someone did an analysis!

http://www.fortressofdoors.com/doing-an-hd-remake-the-right-way/
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: eropS on September 29, 2015, 08:13:08 pm
nice read thanks
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on September 29, 2015, 08:36:39 pm
You ever read these? Very opinion-y, but also pretty entertaining. Also nauseatingly long.

http://socksmakepeoplesexy.net/index.php?a=patff
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: eropS on September 29, 2015, 08:40:46 pm
Hm. Are these like the guy that did the videos for a lot of them? I feel like i've read a familiar website
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on September 29, 2015, 10:02:38 pm
I've posted it a few times on the forum before. Gauph has too, I think. It's very likely you've encountered it before.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gauphastus on September 30, 2015, 04:03:22 am
Yeah, I def remember having a great time with their Final Fantasy Tactics review. I think they had some really interesting ideas about what was going on there.
It's been like seven years or something though so I dunno anymore.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: dndfreak on November 14, 2015, 04:33:53 am
https://twitter.com/JVCom/status/662680794436096000

So for those of you who have no idea what this says, Uematsu says he has nothing to do with the FFVII remake.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: eropS on November 14, 2015, 09:02:43 am
Who's that
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on November 14, 2015, 06:58:45 pm
The composer.

I read a comment thread about this and someone raised a good point. Dude already composed the soundtrack. What else is he gonna do?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gauphastus on November 14, 2015, 07:16:22 pm
NO HE HAS TO RETURN

Also what the hell is Mistwalker even doing lately god damn. I haven't heard a peep.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on November 15, 2015, 07:07:25 pm
FF Explorers is looking pretty great. Kinda hyped for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8SM2CSLsro

Older trailer.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Kaizer on November 16, 2015, 03:06:31 am
Is the multiplayer going to be online or local only

because that's a massive deal breaker.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on November 16, 2015, 06:48:26 pm
Both online and local. So it's half a deal breaker for you.

Sorry.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: /lurk on November 17, 2015, 08:04:00 am
Is the online multiplayer region locked? :^)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on November 17, 2015, 08:31:24 am
No idea, actually.

But you should get it anyway because it looks pretty good.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on December 07, 2015, 10:18:12 am
More good news about FFVII!

Quote from: http://gematsu.com/2015/12/final-fantasy-vii-remake-details-reason-multi-part-release-cyberconnect2-collaboration-more
Various companies, including CyberConnect2, are assisting development. However, CyberConnect2’s production tastes differ from that of Square Enix’s, so the two companies are keeping very close with each other. Director Tetsuya Nomura was annoyed by the direction of the latest trailer, so Square Enix changed it to be closer to its own style.

The director of the project is annoyed with the way their collaborator is representing the game. SURELY THAT MEANS EVERYTHING IS FINE. :|

Here is some fun to divert your sadness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpdimgSd4hc
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on December 31, 2015, 08:05:54 am
http://www.jp.square-enix.com/ff9/en/

This is neat. Final Fantasy IX is finally coming to PC.

I really think this news is cool because when FFIX came out the rumor mill was going bonkers about the game being ported to PC since 7 and 8 had made the jump. Now, over a decade later it finally happens. Yay!

Hopefully they don't completely botch it.

There is a trailer for it and it shows some promise, as what little gameplay they show seems to be upscaled well. But we'll see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oDeSJI0qJc
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Ultimatum on December 31, 2015, 08:27:22 am
I'M HYPED

Also,I thought they lost the source code?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on December 31, 2015, 08:44:18 am
No idea.

I wish Square would lose the source code to Bravely Default.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Ultimatum on December 31, 2015, 09:05:35 am
I just hope to God they implement mouse control
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on December 31, 2015, 03:13:12 pm
Nooo you said it out loud! Now Square's listening satellites know yet another thing not to add to the game to spite us!!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: eropS on December 31, 2015, 03:58:48 pm
I like that one a lot I'd probably buy and actually beat it this time
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Ultimatum on December 31, 2015, 04:03:56 pm
The final fantasy I've ever beaten was 7
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: eropS on December 31, 2015, 04:14:48 pm
Just the game boy advanced final fantasy 1 for me

Got to the underworld in 4 and ****s just too hard on the trash mobs haha
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on January 22, 2016, 09:12:58 pm
So... Final Fantasy Explorers?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gauphastus on January 31, 2016, 03:22:27 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO7nyrNBFXA

jeeeeeeesus
Looks pretty neat.

And yeah, my friend and I got Explorers the other day. It's a bit simple, absolutely 100% aping Monster Hunter except without all the depth and strategy. Instead it kind of developed its gameplay in a different way, particularly in your use of abilities. We're still pretty early in the game but gear, while craftable and upgradable, has a lesser role.

So it's pretty Monster Huntery but not completely. World is a little flat and not super interesting and there's really not much story to speak of. Crystal Chronicles had a more involved story honestly, if you believe that. If you care either.

Pretty fun with friends to blunder around and kick bosses in the ass, do some minmaxing (lots of minmax potential here). Dunno how it's gonna hold up in the long run though.
I'd give it a 0-10 scale rating but my personal scale is less weighted to the top so it might look like I hate it or something. And I don't wanna explain how it works so whatever.
I guess I can say it's decent but not great. I'd probably value it at about ten bucks off its current price at the most. Seems reasonable.

EDIT: I guess to be even more clear FF: Explorers is a bit misleading as you really don't do any actual exploration to be perfectly honest.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Ultimatum on May 04, 2016, 02:21:19 pm
Hey,so X ad X-2 are getting released on the PC too

https://steamdb.info/sub/64178/

Anyone hyped?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on May 04, 2016, 02:28:19 pm
Not in the least. :(

X is when the series I loved died.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Ultimatum on May 04, 2016, 02:49:57 pm
Could you elaborate  on that?

Also,what are your feelings on IX?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on May 04, 2016, 03:50:16 pm
Yeah definitely!

I really enjoyed FFIX. It was a pleasant mix of the classic FF style and gameplay but with a lot of the modern (at the time) trappings of the genre that helped make things more fluid. It was mechanically similar to FFVI (my favorite) with the way that items and equips offered skills and abilities over time, much like magicite allowed the player to train up characters with the desired skills. I liked the difficulty and the overall pacing of the game, with a minor exception being that stupid underground road that seemed to drag on forever.

As far as X goes, right off the bat I wasn't taken with the characters or the gameplay. Conditional Turn Battle in place of Active Time Battle really bugged me because I absolutely love ATB and the sense of urgency it instilled. I also wasn't a fan of how Aeons worked. That one isn't a huge deal but I like the older way. And generally I could see where the series was heading after FFX. Square was leaving behind a strong mechanical core and instead replacing it with overly-dramatic stories and annoying characters. Also I didn't like the blitzball, but I'm not a fan of the mini-game thing in FF games anyway. I don't like Triple Triad and I don't care about whatever the heck that game was in IX. Chocobo Racing was cool but that was so fleshed out and offered a legitimately entertaining racing mini-game.

I make no bones about my belief that Square wants to make movies anymore but can't because they aren't quite talented enough. And their push closer to the movie/storytelling side of the spectrum has come at the cost of mechanics that I personally enjoy a lot and wish would be further-improved. But also as a gamer I believe in mechanics first. If the gameplay and systems that support it aren't up to snuff I don't care how good a story you can tell. I bought this thing as something to be played first and foremost. As a fan of the series and someone that bought a lot of their early products, I felt abandoned when Square unilaterally decided that ATB JRPGs were dead and not coming back. The whole damn industry seemed to follow their lead. Thankfully we have companies like Atlus who don't have their heads so far up their own ass.

Credit where credit is due though. Square does publish and (to an extent) develops Dragon Quest nowadays and they've managed to keep that series out of the clutches of whoever makes terrible decisions over there. If you are like me and enjoy classic-styled JRPGs, Dragon Quest is still solid, even if they have made them a bit easier in recent years.

I won't go as far to say that X is a bad game. Clearly there is something of worth there to have garnered so many fans. But there was a moment in time when Final Fantasy changed. It started around FFVII and was especially apparent in FFVIII. And for me FFX was the nail in the coffin. I knew they weren't making these games for me anymore. A different fanbase with different tastes was being catered to. That's why I left. It's also why I still love Nintendo. They make the games I want to play with excellent, familiar mechanics.

Oh and also a late edit to this post: THERE WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE SEQUELS TO FINAL FANTASY GAMES WHY SQUARE WHAT DID YOU DO?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: /lurk on May 04, 2016, 04:21:00 pm
You gave up five years too early. 12 was rad.


Of course, they'll never port that one to PC because they haven't made a ****ty phone version of it yet.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on May 04, 2016, 10:47:02 pm
Oh I actually played 12. It was a lot of fun. It was actually what I always wanted: a single player MMO. That game is unlike any other in the series.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Slinky on May 14, 2016, 11:36:45 pm
I heard the 12 servers got shut down recently. Is there any way to still play it or no?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on May 14, 2016, 11:48:08 pm
That was 11 that just shut down. 12 is a single player game and a pretty good one at that. It also happens to be a Final Fantasy game. Square must have let a good one out by mistake. :o
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Slinky on May 14, 2016, 11:54:52 pm
Ohh is 12 the one with the guy with no shirt on? Also was 11 good?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on May 15, 2016, 12:18:22 am
I played 11 for years and loved it. If you can get into it now on a private server or something, do it. The final game is filled to the brim with content. Back in college a buddy of mine used to play it in the quad because it can run on a toaster and because it uses very little bandwidth.

As far as I am aware, the PC version is still up and running and fully supported.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on November 27, 2016, 08:47:45 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeOCvUnQ_kc

FF15 Livestream! Not sure how long it'll be up!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on November 27, 2016, 09:39:04 pm
Yeah so that game looked weird.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on January 31, 2017, 11:28:42 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/JWjnQGd.jpg)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: /lurk on February 01, 2017, 06:55:04 am
Oh snap Claude watch out for the giant Shapiro.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: Gauphastus on February 01, 2017, 05:07:24 pm
excuuuse me
their names are cludge and septembermaggot
pff if you even knew anything about finally fatnasty you wouldnt have said something so ABSURD
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on March 07, 2017, 10:04:09 am
http://gematsu.com/2017/03/final-fantasy-vii-remake-battles-action-based-cover-optional

Dropped. What a goddamn shame to do your longtime fans like that, Square. :\
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: /lurk on March 09, 2017, 02:47:19 am
Square doesn't still have fans after 10 years of FF13.

...right?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy
Post by: PatMan33 on March 09, 2017, 03:34:13 am
They found new, dumber fans.