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Random Encounters => Everything Else => Topic started by: ilikesanta on May 01, 2011, 07:57:33 pm

Title: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: ilikesanta on May 01, 2011, 07:57:33 pm
See Topic title.

*EDIT Link (http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/02/bin.laden.dead/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1)
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Cyst on May 01, 2011, 07:59:48 pm
That he is Santa, that he is.
Title: Osama Bin Laden is now DEAD
Post by: Clayface on May 01, 2011, 08:01:06 pm
(http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1304305765119.gif)

Osama Bin Laden was killed today by U.S. Special forces,
wow, it only took us 10 years to find him, lol.
I'm not going to post a link or anything, you're just going to have to take my word
Title: Re: Osama Bin Laden is now DEAD
Post by: Cyst on May 01, 2011, 08:02:06 pm
http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=17899.0

>.>
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 01, 2011, 08:10:59 pm
Cnn is saying he wasn't hiding in no man's land on the Pakistan border, he was in a mansion in the outskirts of Islamabad, Pakistan.  Still waiting for Obama to speak.  Congressmen/Senators and their staff can't keep their mouths shut to save their lives, they had to go and ruin the speech.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: sgore on May 01, 2011, 08:14:44 pm
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/la-naw-osama-bin-laden-dead-reuters,0,2158572.story
Figure at least one of these threads should have a link to an actual article.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: /lurk on May 01, 2011, 08:15:31 pm
AMERICA **** YEAH

(http://i.imgur.com/e18R0.jpg)
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: ilikesanta on May 01, 2011, 08:25:44 pm
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/la-naw-osama-bin-laden-dead-reuters,0,2158572.story
Figure at least one of these threads should have a link to an actual article.

I was waiting for Mr. President to speak so we can get the details, but apparently he's doing keg-stands right now.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: sgore on May 01, 2011, 08:27:25 pm
If true, I do not blame the man.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Hammerman58 on May 01, 2011, 08:27:58 pm
It appears we killed him!!!! Too bad I was hoping for a public execution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ47eGSilPc
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: ilikesanta on May 01, 2011, 08:30:10 pm
(http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkjsa0vvlq1qzu2tdo1_400.gif)
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: sgore on May 01, 2011, 08:32:17 pm
The internet works quickly, I see.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: MNIDJM on May 01, 2011, 08:35:29 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZdJRDpLHbw
Title: Re: Osama Bin Laden is now DEAD
Post by: Josasa on May 01, 2011, 08:40:15 pm
Or you could just delete yours... It was later and adds nothing anyway.
Title: Re: Osama Bin Laden is now DEAD
Post by: Luminar on May 01, 2011, 08:53:57 pm
Big event happens. Forum immediatley begins arguing over whose topic has right of way? You get points for originality if nothing else. That said at SA people are actually white-knighting the taliban to make cheap stabs at Obama, so I guess I should be thankful.
Title: Re: Osama Bin Laden is now DEAD
Post by: sgore on May 01, 2011, 09:04:58 pm
Luminar, our arguments are nothing if not original. Except for when they are something else.
Title: Re: Osama Bin Laden is now DEAD
Post by: Luminar on May 01, 2011, 09:09:38 pm
Hey, I wonder what facebook has to say abo-

Quote
Rithy Yoeurth
Who gives a flying **** about what they're serving at the royal wedding or what Kate's dress looks like now. That ***** O'bama is dead son.

Quote
Stephen Scyoc
obama YOU disgust me...you said you would've voted NO for that war but now you want to take credit since your cousin osama is dead!!!!!

...oh
Title: Re: Osama Bin Laden is now DEAD
Post by: sgore on May 01, 2011, 09:15:40 pm
Our arguments are never that, thankfully.
Title: Re: Osama Bin Laden is now DEAD
Post by: Cyst on May 01, 2011, 09:23:19 pm
(http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1304305765119.gif)
lololol
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: ilikesanta on May 01, 2011, 09:30:50 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/KDssc.jpg)
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Clayface on May 01, 2011, 09:35:10 pm
I heard they knew the whereabouts of osama for over a week, but didn't want to do it until after the Royal Wedding,

Also, Gaddafi was almost killed today,  He was able to flee, but one of his sons and 3 of his grandchildren were killed
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Hammerman58 on May 01, 2011, 09:38:14 pm
Do I need to back hand you clayface. They have been gathering intel to make sure another Tora Bora and Iraq war would not happen over bad intel. If they went in and he was not there we would of pissed off the Pakistanis and lost a crucial ally. Now we get to B**** Slap them for being stupid.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: ilikesanta on May 01, 2011, 09:41:47 pm
This is not shopped, i confirmed this just now.  (http://twitter.com/#!/BarackObama)

(http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/fb116703827bdfee24798097300a28c1.jpg)
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Hammerman58 on May 01, 2011, 09:44:02 pm
That is epic
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Cyst on May 01, 2011, 09:45:35 pm
And one of the tweets disappeared since then? I know one disappeared and it makes me :(


NEVER MIND ITS BACK
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 01, 2011, 09:49:16 pm
Wow.  I think the President has officially won the Internet.

I'm feeling kind of conflicted here.  On one hand it doesn't feel right to be celebrating someone's death, even if it's the death of one of the worst people on the planet.  On the other hand,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE_covmW9vY
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Hammerman58 on May 01, 2011, 09:51:01 pm
Mr. President what are you going to do now?

Obama: I'm going to kick back some dos equis
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: martyk on May 01, 2011, 10:04:15 pm
Presidential Speech.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcvudmhF3og
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Clayface on May 01, 2011, 10:18:00 pm
would you consider his death an assassination or a murder?
and why?  we were discussing this in the irc until celdur started to cry
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 01, 2011, 10:22:50 pm
Neither.  It was a military action during war.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: ilikesanta on May 01, 2011, 10:58:36 pm
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/05/02/world/02binladen4_683/02binladen4_683-custom11.jpg)
(http://i.min.us/ilhgAw.gif)
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: UFO King on May 01, 2011, 11:13:12 pm
"Great shot, kid! That was one in a million!"
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Ultimatum on May 02, 2011, 04:18:45 am
Took them long enough.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Hammerman58 on May 02, 2011, 06:36:32 am
(http://i.imgur.com/mjbaU.jpg)


(http://i.imgur.com/09fM7.jpg)
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Gnoll on May 02, 2011, 01:57:22 pm
^
Best. Thing. Ever.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Luminar on May 03, 2011, 11:15:53 am
Yeah well where's the death certificpffhhhhahahahhhahaa

As for celebrating someone's death... honestly I figure while there is a genuine moral point there, justice is done more often by action than apathy. If the death of one guilty man spares the lives of many innocents, then I believe it to be a worthy kill as long as the guilt is proven beyond doubt. The sticky part is when relative standards come into it, but I think given it'd take more than a bit of awkward finangling to paint Osama in a good light, we likely don't need to get into the debate due to this specific issue.
And preserving innocent lives is something worth celebrating. Yes, his death arguably changes little, but it's something - he was one radical corrupt cleric among a sad multitude of them. The difference is he managed to pull something off, or so he claims. That's what made him a figurehead.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Ultimatum on May 03, 2011, 12:51:19 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxVdU2eVYSg
 :)
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 03, 2011, 01:59:30 pm
Who left a camera in my yard!?!
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Galactic-Warrior on May 03, 2011, 03:46:35 pm
He has way too much time on his hands.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 03, 2011, 03:58:41 pm
What, 47 seconds is too much time on your hands?


Kids these days with their Game Boys and their Television...
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Galactic-Warrior on May 03, 2011, 04:13:50 pm
I read books and do outdoor activities too.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Oviraptor on May 03, 2011, 09:18:17 pm
Gotta love those 15 seconds of fresh air.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Galactic-Warrior on May 03, 2011, 09:34:38 pm
More like four hours of running and carrying somewhat heavy objects.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: omegatripod on May 03, 2011, 11:16:42 pm
All of the Navy SEALs in the operation were from Virginia.

Quote from: Some Guy
He was expecting 72 virgins, but instead got 12 Virginians!
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Galactic-Warrior on May 04, 2011, 06:41:39 am
What, he was gonna have a orgy before the SEALs came by and said hi?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Ultimatum on May 04, 2011, 09:20:46 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhCdlygmSJ4
 Hm.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 04, 2011, 09:22:16 am
What, he was gonna have a orgy before the SEALs came by and said hi?

derp
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Kaizer on May 04, 2011, 11:49:32 am
Counter-Terrorists Win
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 04, 2011, 11:50:43 am
Fire in the Hole.
Fire in the Hole.
Fire in the Hole.
Go Go Go!
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Legodragonxp on May 04, 2011, 06:08:08 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/Bsp6k.jpg)

-Lego
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: shock223 on May 05, 2011, 01:42:29 am
this is great and all but can we bring our troops home now?

we don't need to be over there anymore with Laden dead and the rest of the world doesn't need to hate us more than they already do so bring them home and let the arabs deal with their own governments while we need to work on building jobs and repairing the image of this country that has been dragged through the mud over the past years.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Haseri on May 05, 2011, 01:47:03 am
Ha. Like we're in Iraq and Afganistan purely to find Bin Laden.

Oh wait you're serious.

Let me laugh even harder.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 05, 2011, 08:00:47 am
this is great and all but can we bring our troops home now?

we don't need to be over there anymore with Laden dead and the rest of the world doesn't need to hate us more than they already do so bring them home and let the arabs deal with their own governments while we need to work on building jobs and repairing the image of this country that has been dragged through the mud over the past years.

So what, Islamic Terrorists are like the Aliens from Independence Day? We just have to take out the Mothership and the rest of them de-activate?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: gec05 on May 05, 2011, 08:08:02 am
Haha, No.

No way this thing is over. They will still hunt down anyone left of al-qaida (sp) until they are good and gone.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 05, 2011, 08:42:37 am
Not to dogpile here, but yeah.  Bin Laden's death does almost exactly nothing to change conditions on the ground in Afghanistan.  Hopefully we got some good information when we cleared out the compound that can lead to the capture of other high ranking targets, though.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Oviraptor on May 05, 2011, 09:16:35 am
Oh wait you're serious.

Let me laugh even harder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Clayface on May 07, 2011, 03:01:16 am
they have 3 of his wives in custody,  his most recent wife said that they have lived there (in the house in Pakistan where he was killed) for 5 years

also the news told me he had ulcers and shingles when he died
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Galactic-Warrior on May 07, 2011, 07:50:50 am
He had what?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: munchkin5 on May 07, 2011, 07:52:25 am
Uclers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulceration) and shingles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_zoster).

Are you just deliberately stupid all the time?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: LadyM on May 07, 2011, 12:26:06 pm
Two things that can be caused by stress, not surprising.

Shingles is caused by a dormant chicken pox virus sitting on a nerve. Stress (and other unknown reasons) can trigger one and then you get intense pain and a rash. I had it once and hope to never have it again.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 07, 2011, 02:06:42 pm
Osama will never have them again either, so I guess he's got that going for him.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 08, 2011, 05:10:12 am
Did you hear about democracy saying goodbye to everybody. It left the West when they decided to execute without a proper prosecution.

Bin Laden was probably dead for 10 years, there was no clue he was actually alive, and all of a sudden they find him out of the blue, while not releasing the picture of his corpse... Yea very intelligent, especially in times of internet and conspiracy theorists.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: munchkin5 on May 08, 2011, 05:47:56 am
The entire operation has been handled vey well, if you think there was ever a chance that a trial would have ended in anything other than a death sentence, you're deluding yourself.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 08, 2011, 07:49:31 am
No I actually agree with Detox. He makes a fair and valid point in my opinion.

I also have a poor grasp of recent history, do not understand international politics in the slightest and believe in retarded conspiracy theories put around by butthurt far-right trolls.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 08, 2011, 12:02:08 pm
Sometimes I wish there was a way to reach through the internet and slap some sense into people.  Now is one of those times.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Hammerman58 on May 08, 2011, 04:51:07 pm
Ha. Like we're in Iraq and Afganistan purely to find Bin Laden.

Oh wait you're serious.

Let me laugh even harder.
Not to find him but because of his actions.  His actions shaped new foreign policy resulting in 2 wars, causing a lot more casualties having a helping hand in destroying our economy. I would like to hope if it was not for him and the housing crash that the 2000 CBO predictions might of come true of a country with no debt and a trillion dollar surplus. In the end maybe he still won.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 08, 2011, 05:49:24 pm
Inkling isnt democracy based on the fact that ANYONE should get a fair jurisdiction.
And don't you find the reaction of the white house strange, you know how they are not showing the body, and they dump it into the ocean.
I want to see the truth.
So youre happy Osama is dead, what did it cost? the lives of more than 20000 civilians dead in afghanistan and also some soldiers who died there too. I can be really happy about that
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Crazen on May 08, 2011, 06:09:34 pm
pretty sure he was already a confirmed murder, seeing as he liked to send the USA a holiday greeting every year around christmas to tell us so. so, a field execution. not proper, but nobody but Al Q. should, you know, care.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Kaizer on May 08, 2011, 06:11:49 pm
Inkling isnt democracy based on the fact that ANYONE should get a fair jurisdiction.
And don't you find the reaction of the white house strange, you know how they are not showing the body, and they dump it into the ocean.
I want to see the truth.
So youre happy Osama is dead, what did it cost? the lives of more than 20000 civilians dead in afghanistan and also some soldiers who died there too. I can be really happy about that

America isn't a democracy
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Legodragonxp on May 08, 2011, 06:22:32 pm
Inkling isnt democracy based on the fact that ANYONE should get a fair jurisdiction.
And don't you find the reaction of the white house strange, you know how they are not showing the body, and they dump it into the ocean.
I want to see the truth.

*Hands Detox two buckets and some concrete mix.

-Lego
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: eropS on May 08, 2011, 06:24:33 pm
Inkling isnt democracy based on the fact that ANYONE should get a fair jurisdiction.
And don't you find the reaction of the white house strange, you know how they are not showing the body, and they dump it into the ocean.
I want to see the truth.
So youre happy Osama is dead, what did it cost? the lives of more than 20000 civilians dead in afghanistan and also some soldiers who died there too. I can be really happy about that

America isn't a democracy

This is true. We're a Republic.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 08, 2011, 07:57:08 pm
Detox, a democracy is based on how the government is elected.  And as I told Clayface, this was a military action against the leader of a group with which we are at war.  At least we kind of maybe gave him the chance to surrender, we could have just blown the compound up from a distance with a drone.  As far as the photos, it's damned if we do, damned if we don't.  If the photos were released people would claim we were gloating over the corpse and it would inflame those sympathetic to him even more.  Then again, an American sneezing seems to make these people angry.

Between you and Clayface, I'm wondering what it is about drugs that makes you sympathetic to terrorists.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Cyst on May 08, 2011, 08:14:51 pm
Between you and Clayface, I'm wondering what it is about drugs that makes you sympathetic to terrorists.
Hey I did a victory dance and was proud to be American when I found out that bin Laden was dead so it must be only some people who become terrorists.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Cobra on May 08, 2011, 09:19:29 pm
Face it even if photos were released. The conspiracy theorists still wont be convinced. They will just scream thats it been shopped or its not him. Anything short of his head on a pike outside the white house for all to will not convince those who claim conspiracy. All it will do is anger Osama's supporters and disguest those who really don't want to a multilated face splashed across the worlds media.

If Bin Laden really was alive you think he would be quick to send out his next message to say he still is kicking. if for no other reason than to be a take that to America. He is dead the topic title is accurate big brother says so.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Brandonazz on May 08, 2011, 09:34:28 pm
That corpse on a pike is an elaborate government fabrication. Like the birth certificate and "Wyoming."
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Clayface on May 08, 2011, 10:15:48 pm

Between you and Clayface, I'm wondering what it is about drugs that makes you sympathetic to terrorists.

When was I sympathetic to Terrorists?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 08, 2011, 10:35:57 pm
would you consider his death an assassination or a murder?
and why?  we were discussing this in the irc until celdur started to cry

Not support, just a dumb question caused by not knowing what you were talking about.  Which is the same thing as Detox, just not nearly as bad.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Krakow Sam on May 09, 2011, 12:59:11 am
Inkling isnt democracy based on the fact that ANYONE should get a fair jurisdiction.
And don't you find the reaction of the white house strange, you know how they are not showing the body, and they dump it into the ocean.
I want to see the truth.
So youre happy Osama is dead, what did it cost? the lives of more than 20000 civilians dead in afghanistan and also some soldiers who died there too. I can be really happy about that

America isn't a democracy

This is true. We're a Republic.

No.

NO.

This is the argument of right-wing nutjobs. Please refrain from using it. America is a Democracy. Your head of state is elected democratically. Having a democratically elected head of state is one of the features of a republic.

Also, to add weight to the people arguing against detox's point. Osama was not a citizen of the USA and was not entitiled to any rights as such.

Also, is the American government did release photos of the corpse then that wouldn't have any impact on the number of people saying Obama isn't dead. Conspiracy theorists don't respond to logic or reason.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Mr. Wizard on May 09, 2011, 01:21:22 am
No.

NO.

This is the argument of right-wing nutjobs. Please refrain from using it. America is a Democracy. Your head of state is elected democratically. Having a democratically elected head of state is one of the features of a republic.

Also, to add weight to the people arguing against detox's point. Osama was not a citizen of the USA and was not entitiled to any rights as such.

Also, is the American government did release photos of the corpse then that wouldn't have any impact on the number of people saying Obama isn't dead. Conspiracy theorists don't respond to logic or reason.

No, the US is a Republic. We have a popular vote, but this is not the mechanism that ultimately decides who wins. Meet our Electoral College (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_%28United_States%29). It has resulted in several previous winning candidates being elected despite losing the popular vote (http://americanhistory.about.com/od/uspresidents/f/pres_unpopular.htm). Also, our Parties are called Democrats and Republicans, but that doesn't mean they represent the ideas of a Democracy and a Republic, its just a naming convention that goes back a long time. Republicans that point this out aren't spouting propaganda, they're just ignorant.

Also, lol obama isnt dead.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Kaizer on May 09, 2011, 02:54:08 am
lets see some death certificates mr obama  ::)
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Krakow Sam on May 09, 2011, 04:50:01 am
No, the US is a Republic. We have a popular vote, but this is not the mechanism that ultimately decides who wins. Meet our Electoral College (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_%28United_States%29). It has resulted in several previous winning candidates being elected despite losing the popular vote (http://americanhistory.about.com/od/uspresidents/f/pres_unpopular.htm). Also, our Parties are called Democrats and Republicans, but that doesn't mean they represent the ideas of a Democracy and a Republic, its just a naming convention that goes back a long time. Republicans that point this out aren't spouting propaganda, they're just ignorant.

Fascists!  :o

I mean, American politics sure is weird >_>

Also, lol obama isnt dead.

rageguy.png
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Luminar on May 09, 2011, 08:00:07 am
I thought a republic was generally defined as having gotten rid of a monarchy/monarchy influence and is therefore inherently democratic by concept?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Haseri on May 09, 2011, 09:51:16 am
To further add to the damned if they did, damned if they didn't, what if Osama had been brought to the US?

Fox News Pundit: "What the hell was Obama thinking - bringing bin Laden to America? For a trial? This man orchastrated the deaths of thousands! And we're going give him a fair trial? Did the soldiers read him his Miranda rights? No? Well, what happens when that comes up at the trial? Will they let him go? Let him continue killing? What the hell was he thinking?"
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Hammerman58 on May 09, 2011, 10:19:13 am
United States Was Founded as a Constitutional Republic and Not a Democracy (http://www.themarketoracle.biz/Article7117.html)

constitutional republic--a political structure under which the government is bound by a written constitution to the task of protecting individual rights.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Flisch on May 09, 2011, 10:20:48 am
Why are people still posting in this thread? I thought he is dead!
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: munchkin5 on May 09, 2011, 10:25:41 am
United States Was Founded as a Constitutional Republic and Not a Democracy (http://www.themarketoracle.biz/Article7117.html)

constitutional republic--a political structure under which the government is bound by a written constitution to the task of protecting individual rights.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

That article can't even get the definition of democracy right.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Gungnir on May 09, 2011, 02:11:53 pm
But for serial we need to get rid of the electoral college. Useless institution that impedes the will of the 'merican people!
Relevant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-xsIrn9Os0
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Clarke on May 09, 2011, 02:14:37 pm
Gungir wants mob rule.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 09, 2011, 02:16:59 pm
Clarke wants Communo-Fascism.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Clarke on May 09, 2011, 02:22:41 pm
Man, don't even go there; I'm communist, not fascist. I have nothing to do with those monsters on the right.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 09, 2011, 02:27:09 pm
Twas a joke, of the "Accuse the above person of political ideology X" variety.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: munchkin5 on May 09, 2011, 02:50:35 pm
Well Plank's a Black Gay Nazi Feminist Jewish Communist Muslim Atheist Imigrant with AIDS, and worst of all, is a government employee.

And don't you forget it.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Luminar on May 09, 2011, 03:22:01 pm
To further add to the damned if they did, damned if they didn't

It's what's known as "spin". Spin exists to make you look great and your opponent look terrible (preferably both simultaneously) irregardless of what the actual event was. Case in point: obama's birth certificate.

Obama hasn't released it and won't: "He has something to hide!"
Obama hasn't released it but will: "He's delaying to cover it up!"
Obama has released it: "He bows too easily to pressure!"

Says a lot about some folks when a black guy can excel to the point of literally being the president and they still won't take him seriously.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 09, 2011, 08:01:36 pm
Between you and Clayface, I'm wondering what it is about drugs that makes you sympathetic to terrorists.
so you think drugs caused my so called sympathy to terrorists.

Are you even trying to understand anything, i hate terrorists cuz they kill for a dying, just the same i hate soldiers because they kill innocents more often than they kill dangerous people.

im not for osama bin laden, im against the policy of using unlaw and murder to silence a political enemy. so if he deserves to die it should be by an international committee not by some dumb ass soldier who is fighting his patriotic war infinitly, causing destruction and inhumanity as he walks. America used the same methods than the terrorists and must therefore reprimanded by the people. they stand against their own beliefs which is a display of extreme bigotry.

drugs did not take part in forming this opinion
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Brandonazz on May 09, 2011, 08:04:18 pm
I also hate terrorists because they kill for a dying.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Legodragonxp on May 09, 2011, 08:27:52 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNyQsH7ilIM

-Lego
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Crazen on May 09, 2011, 08:40:39 pm
Are you even trying to understand anything, i hate terrorists cuz they kill for a dying, just the same i hate soldiers because they kill innocents more often than they kill dangerous people.

 America used the same methods than the terrorists and must therefore reprimanded by the people. they stand against their own beliefs which is a display of extreme bigotry.

drugs did not take part in forming this opinion

Ideally we would all stop shooting at eachother.

But...you know  :P
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Hammerman58 on May 09, 2011, 09:03:48 pm
Sometimes I really do think that some people should not talk. Defending the killing of a man who ordered thousands of men, woman and children to be killed. He was a murderer plain and simple not some nutbag who just talked smack.

He was a person who was planning more death and destruction up to his death if we did not get him 9/11 would of happened again.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 09, 2011, 10:10:43 pm
So the UN charta forbids execution, furthermore: There has been more casualties after one month of operation in Afghanistan than there were during September 11th, but I don't believe we should start counting numbers, as death is death.

I'm also not defending him, you people are too angered to see that, I am opposing execution in an operation in any way. ESPECIALLY without trial.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Rysworld on May 09, 2011, 10:20:34 pm
So you would argue that executing him was more cruel than to keep him locked up for the rest of his life, both to him (Since you appear to believe that Osama deserved mercy) and to all the people who he'd killed?

His trial was when he, completely obviously and basically without hiding the fact, killed 1.3 thousand people.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 09, 2011, 10:23:39 pm
dude, that is not how it works, i dont believe in death penalty, and i dont think he should be mercied...
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 09, 2011, 10:38:01 pm
And as I told Clayface, this was a military action against the leader of a group with which we are at war. 

How many times do I have to repost this?  This is war, not arresting a serial killer or gang boss.  In war, if the enemy does not surrender, you shoot them.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Crazen on May 09, 2011, 11:01:09 pm
i dont believe in death penalty

Well I don't believe in an unproductive prison population.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Kitkat on May 09, 2011, 11:09:34 pm
I endorse that.

I mean, if we're going to keep them, we should at least do something with them.

Also, don't do drugs kiddies. They mess up your head.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Cyst on May 09, 2011, 11:19:21 pm
Well I think that killing bin Laden was hilarious and that the dogs who helped deserve laser eyes in addition to their titanium teeth.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Luminar on May 10, 2011, 05:36:01 am
I mean, if we're going to keep them, we should at least do something with them.
Too close to slave labor for my liking.
Plus you have to watch out for the fact that who goes to prison for what is entirely up to who's in charge. A precedent can come back and bite you in the ass later on even if it does nothing today. Imagine you set the work enforcement for prisoners, then some racist gets in charge. Hello 18th century Mk2.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: munchkin5 on May 10, 2011, 06:19:14 am
Well America already makes a lot of money from the labour of it's prison population, they actually make a lot of military equipment.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Crazen on May 11, 2011, 03:09:36 pm
Too close to slave labor for my liking.


Ah, maybe I wasn't clear. I just don't give a single f*** what happens to murderers.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Luminar on May 11, 2011, 03:45:28 pm
Ah, maybe I wasn't clear. I just don't give a single f*** what happens to murderers.
Proven murderers. If you would place the punishment of the guilty before the protection of the innocent, something is very wrong. Even then, couldn't we give the jobs they would do by forced labor to the workforce at large? There's an unemployment problem after all.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Cyst on May 11, 2011, 04:49:57 pm
Idea: Make it illegal to be unemployed. Problem bums? You jealous Europe? You mad humanitarians?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Crazen on May 11, 2011, 05:21:01 pm
Proven murderers. If you would place the punishment of the guilty before the protection of the innocent, something is very wrong.
I agree. I'm confused why you brought that up at all.

[ Even then, couldn't we give the jobs they would do by forced labor to the workforce at large? There's an unemployment problem after all.

I am not well informed on this topic and cannot reasonably debate it with you.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: sgore on May 11, 2011, 05:59:00 pm
I am not well informed on this topic and cannot reasonably debate it with you.
(http://i53.tinypic.com/1z5hu2g.png) (http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=17899.msg842414#msg842414)

(Edit: Just so we're clear, I don't mean this sarcastically. That is a fantastic sentence and too many people on the internet do not know how to use it.)
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Luminar on May 11, 2011, 06:06:19 pm
I am not well informed on this topic and cannot reasonably debate it with you.
Simple - not enough people have jobs. Why give jobs to imprisoned convicts when someone could earn a straight living with the jobs they'd be doing?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Legodragonxp on May 11, 2011, 10:54:53 pm
Enough about Bin Laden, I want to know about the flippin' stealth helicopter.

-Lego
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Mr. Wizard on May 11, 2011, 11:40:18 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/xWghl.jpg)

This is just the result of an artist and an expert brainstorming what it might look like. The only moderately accurate part according to them is that tail section, since that is the only portion that survived.

Here is the blog from whence that sketch originated: http://cencio4.wordpress.com/
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Didero on May 12, 2011, 04:37:58 am
I am not well informed on this topic and cannot reasonably debate it with you.
Simple - not enough people have jobs. Why give jobs to imprisoned convicts when someone could earn a straight living with the jobs they'd be doing?

For the same reason the Dutch Minister of Employment shouldn't just stop Romanians from coming in and picking our strawberries and expect Dutch unemployed people to take over.
Would you prefer making license plates against minimum wage over unemployment benefits?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: /lurk on May 12, 2011, 11:59:49 am
I am not well informed on this topic and cannot reasonably debate it with you.
Simple - not enough people have jobs. Why give jobs to imprisoned convicts when someone could earn a straight living with the jobs they'd be doing?

For the same reason the Dutch Minister of Employment shouldn't just stop Romanians from coming in and picking our strawberries and expect Dutch unemployed people to take over.
Would you prefer making license plates against minimum wage over unemployment benefits?

Yeah of course immigrants are criminals and only exist to be exploited as cheap labour.


What the hell, Didero?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Luminar on May 13, 2011, 12:54:10 am
I'm somewhat sure that's not what he meant.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 13, 2011, 04:11:51 am
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2011/05/201151322834765706.html (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2011/05/201151322834765706.html)
look, more killings from idiotic fundamentalists, revenge will lead to more revenge, which will lead to more revenge
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Didero on May 13, 2011, 04:16:00 am
Yeah of course immigrants are criminals and only exist to be exploited as cheap labour.

What the hell, Didero?

I meant that it's all well and good to say that local unemployed people should do that work, but those unemployed may not want to do the work.

My example referred to the practise of Eastern-Europeans coming over here to pick strawberries and assorted fruits, all entirely legally. The Minister of Employment wants to block Romanians from coming here, since Romania isn't part of the EU, and he is of the opinion the locals should pick the strawberries. But the farmers growing the strawberries can't find enough Dutch unemployed to replace the Romanians.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Crazen on May 13, 2011, 06:23:15 am
look, more killings from idiotic fundamentalists, revenge will lead to more revenge, which will lead to more revenge

so what should we do about terrorists when they kill us? somehow convince them to come quietly?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 13, 2011, 08:08:31 am
i dont know, you shouldnt mess with their countries, stop invading and stop destroying their homelands, start pushing their economy...
only misery creates terrorism...
death only creates more death so its actually stupid to engage in combat...
things happened as they did, osama is dead and afghanistan's destroyed as is iraq, while western arms industries continue to secretly bring weapons to their enemies... the only solution to terrorism to the politicians, right now, is by sheer force and destruction, which will kill the symptoms but doesnt cure the disease, only through equal treatment, education and free exchange of goods and knowledge, will the common man chose the civil way and not the way of terror.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: munchkin5 on May 13, 2011, 08:34:02 am
The war in Afghanistan has done a lot to defeat terrorism and is on the way to building a better state. Before the invasion it was a failed state run by a brutal, anti western theocracy; you seem to suggest that the aim of the western invasion was to destroy an otherwise peaceful country and harass it's people, which blatantly isn't the case.

And as for this:
while western arms industries continue to secretly bring weapons to their enemies

Are you suggesting that defence contractors are selling arms to the Taliban  ???
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 13, 2011, 08:55:16 am
The war in Afghanistan has done a lot to defeat terrorism and is on the way to building a better state. Before the invasion it was a failed state run by a brutal, anti western theocracy; you seem to suggest that the aim of the western invasion was to destroy an otherwise peaceful country and harass it's people, which blatantly isn't the case.

And as for this:
while western arms industries continue to secretly bring weapons to their enemies

Are you suggesting that defence contractors are selling arms to the Taliban  ???
well i suppose my chosing of words is as usual unexact and i must apologize, i dont doubt the good intentions behind anything, but the actual outcome is still rather gruesome and brutal towards the civil society. The afghans feel oppressed by the americans even if it isn't their intention.

By the way my father is working in afghanistan, so i get some first hand info on society, your so called building society lives still on the most parts in medieval circumstances with no running water nor electricity. If the Western countries would do more to build up trade, schools and infrastructure instead of putting more money into soldiers on so called peace missions the country would have been far more developed than it is now.  The fight against terrorism is in my oppinion a farce. I mean obiously its horrible what happened during the 11th of september but if you actually look at the numbers of deaths per year by terrorism you will be surprised to see that it hardly reaches 100 in a year, while millions die of cancer, car crashes and poverty in the United States and other western countries.

So, there is a disbalance in where the governments invest their money. Imagine you would have all those ressources that are put into afghanistan used for civil services like schooling, science and health care, we would have quite the better circumstances in our countries. I mean they are cutting fundings for schooling in all the western countries, while going into deep debts going to war with a country. The educated people would bring the countries to a peak of scientific research which would aid the entire world more intensly than any war could ever do.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 13, 2011, 09:06:56 am
I didn't feel like responding again, because it feels like we're going in circles, but Didero demands a post.

The most recent bombing in Pakistan is tragic, I agree.  But the  Taliban, Al Qaeda, and other groups bombing someone they don't like isn't a new phenomenon after we killed Bin Laden.  Maybe you haven't been paying attention over the last ten years, but these groups attack and kill anyone and everyone they disagree with.  Osama's death is just the latest excuse, if he was still alive, they would still be trying to kill people.

You keep talking about how violence only spreads more violence.  You seem to have confused justice with revenge, which is an understandable mistake in some ways.  Justice is holding those who committ crimes and atrocities responsible for their actions.  Revenge would have been nuking Kabul in response the attacks on 9/11. 

Governments have an obligation to protect their citizens.  Example time!  If a crazed gunman opens fire on people in a crowded mall, the police do not hold back for fear of angering the gunman's friends and family.  They don't try to make the gunman start liking people again by offering him money, food, and books.  They use every resource they have to subdue the gunman and protect innocent lives, up to and including lethal force.  A government that loses 3,000 people in a terrorist attack and doesn't hold those responsible accountable would have failed its citizens.

All of that said, you might be surprised to know that the US and its allies have been doing more than just shooting and bombing people.  We are at war with terrorist groups, not the people of these countries.  We are building roads, schools, hospitals.  I can't tell you how many stories I've heard on NPR and elsewhere about Agriculture graduates going to Afghanistan to help farmers rebuild and improve their farms, or new business ventures in Iraq.

I guess what I'm saying is that you can keep being idealistic and preachy, but you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

EDIT: while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Oh well.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 13, 2011, 09:47:52 am
yet its always the people suffering, i dont know, my pops took pictures, looks pretty destroyed to me... and also is it right to kill civilians in another country just cuz civilians died in the homecountry.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Didero on May 13, 2011, 10:04:12 am
i dont know, my pops took pictures, looks pretty destroyed to me...
Sounds like selection bias to me.
What does your father do in Afghanistan?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 13, 2011, 10:07:02 am
yet its always the people suffering [...] and also is it right to kill civilians in another country just cuz civilians died in the homecountry.

That was a dumb statement

I would love to point out what was wrong with it, but considering you clearly didn't even bother to read Inkling's explanation any further discussion is essentially wasted on you.

Well done?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 13, 2011, 10:21:04 am
its dumb to defend war, period. by attacking a country you dont bring back people from the dead.

my father works in an agency to train future bureaucrats to make the government more efficient. he gets transported by helicopter from place to place because American soldiers have the tendency to bomb any car driving on the long roads, as a car poses a possible threat. So a government has an obligation to protect its citizens, but by entering a war in the middle east they actually raised the danger of getting attacked once again, as people just grow more angry of an american supremacy.

I wonder why my father isnt shooting pictures of schools and working hospitals, perhaps because the only hospitals available to the people are based on military bases. The soldiers dont know **** about the afghan costums and constantly insult (without their knowledge) the people of afghanistan and are isolated on their army bases, unless they are on patrol, which leads to no understanding of their culture at all and to more misunderstandings between the civilian population and the well armed soldiers. It looks like a failure to me, as civilians and soldiers die every other week or so. So your truly more valuable american citizens are dying for nothing, as they create, without their knowledge as they don't make any decisions, pain misery and hatred.

so you say my father is biased, well i guess less biased than you and your media fed mindset. Just go to wikileaks and look at the numbers and you see how much actually gets done. But yea its justified, cuz some americans died.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 13, 2011, 10:25:16 am
its dumb to defend war, period. by attacking a country you dont bring back people from the dead.

I'm not. I'm basically on your side but that was still a stupid statement.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: munchkin5 on May 13, 2011, 10:29:45 am
While I'm not about to defend the killing of civilians during the war, you need to compare the casualties to what would have happened without the intervention rather than assuming everything would be fine without it. Terrorism would have been far more prolific both in the west and the middle east, the entire country would have remained in a state of poverty and political isolation, the people would be suffering even more than they are now and the country would have no economic future. The ongoing project at the moment is to make the country somewhat stable, democratic and a lot safer, while making sure the terrorists like al qaeda and the taliban can't get a foothold again, but obviously isn't close to being achieved yet considering projects like that take generations and a large investment, something i hope we'll follow up with.

The civilian casualties have generally been a result of military action, mainly airstrikes, and i don't agree with what's happened there. The military operation could have been carried out with a lot more discretion; especially at the start of the war. However something i don't think was ever an option was allowing the Taliban to retain control of the country, and there wasn't ever a perfect solution to that problem either.

Also:
so you say my father is biased, well i guess less biased than you and your media fed mindset. Just go to wikileaks and look at the numbers and you see how much actually gets done. But yea its justified, cuz some americans died.

You should stop treating everyone like some idiotic, die-hard american patriot who thinks the war is some sort of glory mission, and start treating people like they know what they're talking about.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 13, 2011, 10:41:05 am
You should stop treating everyone like some idiotic, die-hard american patriot who thinks the war is some sort of glory mission, and start treating people like they know what they're talking about.
Well as long as anyone defends any war I'll stay the way I am. War means death and destruction of civilization in all cases.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Luminar on May 13, 2011, 10:50:10 am
The old "The immigrants do the jobs the populace don't want to do" thing. Never been totally sure of the veracity of the claim, and it has a nasty habit of generally appearing mostly in nationalistic/racist debates. I've never really been able to determine which side of that debate it's actually on - on one hand, it's cool that they can get jobs relatively unabashed. On the other hand, is it not like tossing them table scraps?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Didero on May 13, 2011, 11:13:52 am
so you say my father is biased, well i guess less biased than you and your media fed mindset. Just go to wikileaks and look at the numbers and you see how much actually gets done. But yea its justified, cuz some americans died.
I'm not calling your father biased. I'm talking about the statistics-related selection bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias), by which I mean he only sees the terrible civilian casualties while I doubt he gets called to many places just to admire the new hospital they built.

The old "The immigrants do the jobs the populace don't want to do" thing. Never been totally sure of the veracity of the claim, and it has a nasty habit of generally appearing mostly in nationalistic/racist debates. I've never really been able to determine which side of that debate it's actually on - on one hand, it's cool that they can get jobs relatively unabashed. On the other hand, is it not like tossing them table scraps?
Stuff's going on here right now. Romanian pickers who come here voluntarily aren't allowed anymore, growers try to find Dutch pickers, can't find any.
I don't think there's any racism behind it, I just think most Dutch people see themselves as too well-educated to do this sort of work. Plus, I think Dutch unemployment benefits aren't very small. The Minister deciding on this just wanted to save some money on those benefits, I think.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 13, 2011, 11:31:05 am
You should stop treating everyone like some idiotic, die-hard american patriot who thinks the war is some sort of glory mission, and start treating people like they know what they're talking about.
Well as long as anyone defends any war I'll stay the way I am. War means death and destruction of civilization in all cases.

|
|
|
V

I'm basically on your side but that was still a stupid statement.


Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: sgore on May 13, 2011, 11:41:23 am
You should stop treating everyone like some idiotic, die-hard american patriot who thinks the war is some sort of glory mission, and start treating people like they know what they're talking about.
Well as long as anyone defends any war I'll stay the way I am. War means death and destruction of civilization in all cases.
I think what Munchkin is complaining about is the unnecessary hostility that seems to be running through your rhetoric. It's not necessary to treat people as if they fall into some kind of political archtype just because they feel a certain way about a certain issue, and it really doesn't help any point you're trying to make to act as if you're arguing against that archtype rather than an individual. You're talking to people here detox, not conflations of political caricatures personified in internet form, and honestly, if there's anything that's ever bothered me about your posting style when it comes to debates like this, it's really only been that.

To a degree, it isn't just you. I've seen certain other posters do it too from time to time. Much as I enjoy having in-depth discussions about issues (ranging from politics to science to whatever), when people act like that, it's kind of what turns me off to participating. For the most part, discussions on this forum avoid that, but it is something that needs to be worked on.

On the flip side, if you have a problem with the way people have been treating you, which you may, you can certainly bring it up and ask that people take it into consideration.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Uroboros on May 13, 2011, 02:28:05 pm
My opinion has been held back until now, given the whipsnaps at anyone not in open agreement, but...

Even in a time of war, even knowing exactly what kind of a terribad guy Bin Laden was, I will never be comfortable with revelling in the death of another. You cannot say in one hand "We're better than that" when hearing of tortured people and folks dancing in the streets at the destruction caused here, and then in the other, waterboard random suspects and have it be socially acceptable to hold parties at the death of an enemy, y'know?

In the anger from the 9/11 attack, the actions that have taken place are understandable, but striking out so hard may have been incredibly clumsy, like trying to hack off one of the heads of a hydra, only to see two returning in its place. Much of what has been done would have only fortified the hate and propaganda thrown against America, and spurred people to their cause, and yet total inaction would have left the situation seeming as if without repercussion. A very careful response was needed, but instead, the powers that were, seemed to just struggle against their leashes trying to effect the quickest retaliation, eventually going as far to fabricate what they needed to move, and without support from their allies. All that is clear, and will become increasingly clear as the dust settles after all of this :

Is that you cannot kill an idea by killing a man.

I also don't feel that saying "the terrorists didn't win" is accurate. Call it anecdotal if you must, but people are so paranoid that they call bombsquads when they see litebrites or camcorders laying around, and are still on guard around anything with a turban or a funny accent. Terrorism... terror. They did exactly what they came for. Not just America, but this has reached out to here in the UK too, and other places to lesser extents. They did exactly what they came for. No matter how harsh the repercussions for the crime should or should not be, in allowing any of our rights to be subdued, in allowing your culture to be shaken so deeply, in allowing the war to begin without fully thinking it through, didn't they in a sense, actually win? I know that is a bitter pill to swallow, and if I had any better way to say it, I would, but I have a hard time calling the word "Justice" into any part of this mess. Only "revenge".

I cannot say right from wrong in the big picture, that much, only time can tell, as retrospect seems to be the only clear revealer in matters of political intensity... but I feel a subtle irony in the premise of the "civilised west". Remember that patriotism isn't to agree with everything said, done and accepted as norm. Patriotism is to love your country, even if that means expecting better of it, and not being afraid to be critical even in the hardest (or most victorious) of times. People disagreeing with how things have turned out aren't necessarily pointing a finger at you and yelling that you're all stereotypical fat americans, just as your counterpoints don't mean you are in full agreement with everything that has happened around this subject. Though showing barbs to one another is a surefire way of helping them to misinterpret you.

Now, hopefully I won't get demolished by waves of embittered thinly-veiled "you disagree so you're an idiot" from both sides... :P
Come at me, bro.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 13, 2011, 02:43:20 pm
I'd just like to point out that a few groups of college kids and some overexcited talking heads on tv doesn't mean the whole country was revelling in Osama's death.  And like I said,

On one hand it doesn't feel right to be celebrating someone's death, even if it's the death of one of the worst people on the planet.  On the other hand,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE_covmW9vY
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: munchkin5 on May 13, 2011, 02:51:50 pm
Turns out killing Osama was a tactical success too, something they were probably aware of before they went in.

I don't agree with this idea that the war has just made terrorism worse either;

In the anger from the 9/11 attack, the actions that have taken place are understandable, but striking out so hard may have been incredibly clumsy, like trying to hack off one of the heads of a hydra, only to see two returning in its place. Much of what has been done would have only fortified the hate and propaganda thrown against America, and spurred people to their cause.

Clumsy, maybe, in terms of collateral damage, but the effect on terrorist networks in the region has been a profound reduction in operational capability.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Crazen on May 13, 2011, 07:45:43 pm



by attacking a country you don't bring back people from the dead.

first, the US military was not attacking Afghanistan. it was attacking certain fringe groups within Afghanistan. and the goal is to kill them so they cant kill anymore people. in my version, we would then replace every bombed bunker with a school and a power plant, but the USA kinda suck.


Tox, we all hate war, and I actually agree with most of what you said. education, cooporation, and life enrichment are the best cures for violence.

but I don't think you have given an adequate answer to what we should do with the terrorists that are alive right now, and are planning on killing more people, right now. I don't know to come up with a way of peacefully stopping 1,000~ people with bombs and guns that want to kill us. I want one though, so if you have one, I would like it.

oh and I don't mean this in a 'take that' sort of way. I'm trying to be earnest here.  

also, for the record, I don't watch TV news. too bulls***y



Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 13, 2011, 09:12:36 pm
And now for insult to injury,

"The pornography recovered in bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, consists of modern, electronically recorded video and is fairly extensive..."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/13/us-binladen-porn-idUSTRE74C4RK20110513
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Hammerman58 on May 14, 2011, 12:04:24 am
Guess he has to resort to that when all of his wives would not put out. ;)
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Legodragonxp on May 14, 2011, 07:22:38 am
I'm waiting for the Scooby Doo ending where they pull off Bin Laden's mask and it is actually Michael Moore.

-Lego
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Luminar on May 14, 2011, 03:37:50 pm
Wait for the M Night Shylaman ending when they pull off his mask and it's actually Nicholas Cage.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 14, 2011, 03:58:14 pm
On one hand it doesn't feel right to be celebrating someone's death, even if it's the death of one of the worst people on the planet.  On the other hand,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE_covmW9vY
You're a judge?
My opinion has been held back until now, given the whipsnaps at anyone not in open agreement, but...

Even in a time of war, even knowing exactly what kind of a terribad guy Bin Laden was, I will never be comfortable with revelling in the death of another. You cannot say in one hand "We're better than that" when hearing of tortured people and folks dancing in the streets at the destruction caused here, and then in the other, waterboard random suspects and have it be socially acceptable to hold parties at the death of an enemy, y'know?

In the anger from the 9/11 attack, the actions that have taken place are understandable, but striking out so hard may have been incredibly clumsy, like trying to hack off one of the heads of a hydra, only to see two returning in its place. Much of what has been done would have only fortified the hate and propaganda thrown against America, and spurred people to their cause, and yet total inaction would have left the situation seeming as if without repercussion. A very careful response was needed, but instead, the powers that were, seemed to just struggle against their leashes trying to effect the quickest retaliation, eventually going as far to fabricate what they needed to move, and without support from their allies. All that is clear, and will become increasingly clear as the dust settles after all of this :

Is that you cannot kill an idea by killing a man.

I also don't feel that saying "the terrorists didn't win" is accurate. Call it anecdotal if you must, but people are so paranoid that they call bombsquads when they see litebrites or camcorders laying around, and are still on guard around anything with a turban or a funny accent. Terrorism... terror. They did exactly what they came for. Not just America, but this has reached out to here in the UK too, and other places to lesser extents. They did exactly what they came for. No matter how harsh the repercussions for the crime should or should not be, in allowing any of our rights to be subdued, in allowing your culture to be shaken so deeply, in allowing the war to begin without fully thinking it through, didn't they in a sense, actually win? I know that is a bitter pill to swallow, and if I had any better way to say it, I would, but I have a hard time calling the word "Justice" into any part of this mess. Only "revenge".

I cannot say right from wrong in the big picture, that much, only time can tell, as retrospect seems to be the only clear revealer in matters of political intensity... but I feel a subtle irony in the premise of the "civilised west". Remember that patriotism isn't to agree with everything said, done and accepted as norm. Patriotism is to love your country, even if that means expecting better of it, and not being afraid to be critical even in the hardest (or most victorious) of times. People disagreeing with how things have turned out aren't necessarily pointing a finger at you and yelling that you're all stereotypical fat americans, just as your counterpoints don't mean you are in full agreement with everything that has happened around this subject. Though showing barbs to one another is a surefire way of helping them to misinterpret you.

Now, hopefully I won't get demolished by waves of embittered thinly-veiled "you disagree so you're an idiot" from both sides... :P
Come at me, bro.
Thank you.
I think what Munchkin is complaining about is the unnecessary hostility that seems to be running through your rhetoric.
i do realize that i talk to people. and to point out, i am being treated hostile in ANY discussion by 60% of the forum simply because i admitted to smoking pot. It is repeatably used to invalidate my opinions.

I realize that i wrote quite irrationally, even though i did not mean to insult anybody personally, but more to insult and question a phenomenom of glorification of death and terror.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Crazen on May 14, 2011, 04:04:37 pm
I dont think we are glorifying war. war sucks. anybody who glorifies war (i.e. Osama Bin Laden) is a f***face
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: /lurk on May 14, 2011, 04:25:38 pm
i do realize that i talk to people. and to point out, i am being treated hostile in ANY discussion by 60% of the forum simply because i admitted to smoking pot. It is repeatably used to invalidate my opinions.

We don't treat you with hostility because you smoke pot, silly.



It's because you can't use capital letters.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 14, 2011, 08:51:24 pm
On one hand it doesn't feel right to be celebrating someone's death, even if it's the death of one of the worst people on the planet.  On the other hand,

*YES THEY DESERVED TO DIE, AND I HOPE THEY BURN IN HELL*
You're a judge?

Darn right I am.

(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/Not_Inkling/26055416-26055423-large.jpg)
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Crazen on May 14, 2011, 10:41:10 pm
It's because you can't use capital letters.

your a dick
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Legodragonxp on May 15, 2011, 07:41:32 am
It's because you can't use capital letters.

your a dick
No, he accidentally the whole thing.

-Lego
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 15, 2011, 04:00:51 pm
i do realize that i talk to people. and to point out, i am being treated hostile in ANY discussion by 60% of the forum simply because i admitted to smoking pot. It is repeatably used to invalidate my opinions.

A lot of people on this forum admitted to smoking pot. What made you think that you're special because of it? ::)


Also people are treating you with hostility because you're treating us with hostility. It works both ways, you do know that right?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Clayface on May 15, 2011, 04:51:54 pm
no, he's right, some people around here are extremely rude to people for smoking weed or other drug use,
but that is off topic.
BACK ON TOPIC
Anything new with him?
 ,,...uhhhhh?..... nope.... dont think so,

Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: eropS on May 15, 2011, 05:28:25 pm
....really?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Clayface on May 15, 2011, 05:43:39 pm
i've been treated wit hostility because of drugs, I've seen it happen to badger, i'm sure it's happened to brandon
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Brandonazz on May 15, 2011, 05:46:11 pm
Actually no.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Uroboros on May 15, 2011, 06:18:32 pm
i've been treated wit hostility because of drugs, I've seen it happen to badger, i'm sure it's happened to brandon
It's just you and Detox.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: eropS on May 15, 2011, 06:34:46 pm
Yeah iirc we all just sort gave a hearty chuckle with Badger's bongs .txt...

I'm fairly certain we're now jesting with him since he decided to hit third base and suddenly become a totally uplifted individual.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Luminar on May 15, 2011, 10:58:23 pm
Straightedge Steve dot com. If you smoke, you're going down.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Cyst on May 15, 2011, 11:56:08 pm
Hey Osama bin Laden is alive again. He sent me an e-mail.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Legodragonxp on May 16, 2011, 06:51:03 am
Guy walks in a bar and yells: "Hey bartender...... Give me a Vodka 'bin-Laden'....."

Bartender: "What's a 'bin-Laden'?"

Customer: "Two shots and a splash of water...."

-Lego

Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Luminar on May 16, 2011, 01:50:40 pm
Guy walks in a bar and yells: "Hey bartender...... Give me a Vodka 'bin-Laden'....."

Bartender: "What's a 'bin-Laden'?"

Customer: "Two shots and a splash of water...."

-Lego

(http://i.imgur.com/lW3yl.gif)
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Clayface on May 16, 2011, 05:09:39 pm
I remember hearing that joke on tv, don't remember what it was on though
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Gnoll on May 16, 2011, 05:25:20 pm
In response to debate over moral ramifications:

...eh. I don't think I'm really qualified to comment on that. Instead, I'm just going to be relieved that I'm relatively safe... for now.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: LadyM on May 16, 2011, 08:45:38 pm
Pot smoking/drugs does not need to be discussed on this forum. Family friendly, remember?

Capitals do make proper sentences.

and... Bin Laden is still dead!!

Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Luminar on May 17, 2011, 01:40:52 am
Family friendly, remember?
I think we should work on just "friendly" first before we start getting complex and adding adjectives to the measure. I mean that's a gateway to adverbs and once you're on those you ain't never coming off em!
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Lookatroopa on May 17, 2011, 04:00:00 am
Hey, look what i found!
A leaked picture!
(http://sunkey.co.in/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/osama-bin-laden-scuba-diving-300x225.jpg)
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Krakow Sam on May 17, 2011, 04:58:54 am
Family friendly, remember?
I think we should work on just "friendly" first before we start getting complex and adding adjectives to the measure. I mean that's a gateway to adverbs and once you're on those you ain't never coming off em!

Said Luminar, quite racistly.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Clayface on May 17, 2011, 06:12:25 am
I saw this floating in the web somewhere and thought I'd grab it to share
I don't know if its true, so instead of researching it or google, i decided to post it here so we may speculate
a supposed quote from Bin Laden

"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the Un...ited States… . Whoever committed the act of 11 September are not the friends of the American people. I have already said that we are against the American system, not against its people, whereas in these attacks the common American people have been killed… .The Western media is unleashing such a baseless propaganda, which makes us surprised, but it reflects on what is in their hearts and gradually they themselves become captive of this propaganda… . Terror is the most dreaded weapon in the modern age and the Western media is mercilessly using it against its own people." - Osama Bin Laden
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Haseri on May 17, 2011, 09:46:41 am
Two words, rhymes with litation reeded.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Didero on May 17, 2011, 09:54:00 am
Two words, rhymes with litation reeded.
Migration seeded?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 17, 2011, 09:59:44 am
Titration Conceded?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Cyst on May 17, 2011, 01:03:20 pm
Nitration Ceded.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 17, 2011, 01:26:21 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Gnoll on May 17, 2011, 01:47:53 pm
Citation needed.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: /lurk on May 17, 2011, 02:03:12 pm
Don't be silly, Yuu, it's clearly hydration weeded.


And on that note, what the hell is that supposed to mean, Haseri?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Cyst on May 17, 2011, 02:12:31 pm
lol /Lurk, that isn't Yuu.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 17, 2011, 03:19:33 pm
Don't be silly, Yuu

lolol
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Legodragonxp on May 17, 2011, 03:42:04 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/5TeWP.jpg)

-Lego
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Haseri on May 19, 2011, 12:52:43 am
And on that note, what the hell is that supposed to mean, Haseri?

Your hydration platfrom - has it been weeded?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Clayface on May 19, 2011, 01:06:40 am
Hydration Wedded confirmed, took longer than I thought, Damn weed  ('s)
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 19, 2011, 08:13:20 am
I would like to know where you found that, though.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 19, 2011, 03:23:12 pm
http://911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html (http://911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html)
http://www.public-action.com/911/oblintrv.html (http://www.public-action.com/911/oblintrv.html)
http://www.twf.org/News/Y2006/0608-BinLaden.html (http://www.twf.org/News/Y2006/0608-BinLaden.html)
http://brokenflask.com/2011/05/08/dick-cheney-osama-bin-laden-was-not-directly-involved-in-911-no-evidence-forthcoming/ (http://brokenflask.com/2011/05/08/dick-cheney-osama-bin-laden-was-not-directly-involved-in-911-no-evidence-forthcoming/)

i dont know how valid these sources are, but these are some pages about osama bin ladens involvement
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 19, 2011, 03:25:47 pm
No, I meant I wanted to know where Clayface found that exact "quote."
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 19, 2011, 03:33:38 pm
its in the first link,
its taken from a pakistani newspaper.
this does not prove his innocence, but its interesting how this info missed the west somehow
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Uroboros on May 19, 2011, 03:37:49 pm
I'm interested in that too. I've seen it a few times over the years, but never located its actual source. Or rather, I never took note enough of its source to actually -remember it-
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 19, 2011, 05:11:00 pm
Alright then, I just wanted to know who was full of crap.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Luminar on May 19, 2011, 06:43:42 pm
They are against the Corrupt US government, and it's views on the rest of the world. not the American People

The only point slaughtering random civilians you can't have possibly known the ideologies/dispositions/activities of makes is that the one who called the attacks is a damned monster. The WTC was a civilian building, thousands died in there.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 19, 2011, 07:02:45 pm
america terrorizes people without knowing their ideologies
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 19, 2011, 07:08:19 pm
Alright then, I just wanted to know who was full of crap.
its interesting how you can't even see a POSSIBILITY
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Rysworld on May 19, 2011, 09:22:53 pm
I don't know much about such matters, but I'm pretty sure that not all, if any media outlets are under government control.

This is getting into conspiracy theory territory.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Crazen on May 19, 2011, 09:25:14 pm
I made my aliens muslim. so....yea.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 19, 2011, 10:04:19 pm
Alright then, I just wanted to know who was full of crap.
its interesting how you can't even see a POSSIBILITY

You're absolutely right that I don't consider it a possibility.  I find it quite depressing that you and Clayface think it IS a possibility.  Let's pull back to the basics.  Let's set aside for the moment whatever opinions you have of the US military, of Western media, of the Islamic world.  If you really think that a country would kill 3,000 of its own people, individuals who were nonpolitical, employees and buildings that were a huge part of the US economy, you have a terribly dark view of humanity.  If you think the US and its allies could keep an international conspiracy to murder our own people and cause billions in collateral damage a secret, especially in the age of Wikileaks, you have an astoundingly high opinion of what humanity is capable of.  If we couldn't keep all of the botched up incidents during the wars a secret, how would we keep what would be the biggest and most damning secret of the US quiet?

If you really think that the attacks on 9/11 were some kind of inside job, you have a very flawed grasp on reality.  I'm most surprised by you, Detox.  If you think the US murdered thousands of its on for a convoluted grab for power and oil, if you think it's America that does the terrorizing, what does it mean that your father is helping Allied forces in Afghanistan?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Haseri on May 20, 2011, 12:35:40 am
You all seem to forget why Osama was put on top of the FBI's Top 10 Most Wanted List (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_United_States_embassy_bombings).

And with this hyper-competancy conspiracy thing - there's being sceptical and open-minded, and then there's baseless accusations backed up by dubious and often non-existant evidence.

And if this conspiracy was so competant, why are you here to tell us about it?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 20, 2011, 03:03:49 am
look inkling, i don't claim to believe anything, I'm just wondering why people in general accept the standard version the United States sold to everybody. There is much evidence that Osama was not involved in any of September 11th, which doesn't make him innocent as he has bombed embassies and such. They even write about the involvement issues on wikipedia. If wikipedia doesnt lie, there is a video of Osama and a friend of his discussing the towers, but professional translators from germany said that the translation given by the US was inaccurate and manipulative. I don't know what to believe, but I sure as hell don't trust governments capable of torture, that being said, my father is in afghanistan because he needs money, and also i am not my father, personally I believe afghanistan should be built up in a marshall plan kinda way
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 20, 2011, 04:54:51 am
america terrorizes people without knowing their ideologies

Sir, unless you actually mention an incedent, ie; The My Lai Massacre, I suggest you STFU and stop making people on your side look bad.


personally I believe afghanistan should be built up in a marshall plan kinda way

So America should dominate their economies, as a massive "up yours" to Stalinisation?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: munchkin5 on May 20, 2011, 09:22:46 am
Really, 9/11 truthers?

Detox and Clayface, neither of you deserve any intellectual respect at this point.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: ilikesanta on May 20, 2011, 10:39:45 am
I don't know much about such matters, but I'm pretty sure that not all, if any media outlets are under government control.

This is getting into conspiracy theory territory.

I work in News and we're not under government control, Clayface has no ****ing clue in what he's talking about.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 20, 2011, 01:16:17 pm
osama was put on the number one spot of the most wanted before 9/11,
the fbi never looked for him for the 9/11 incident cuz they didnt have enough evidence.
he was on there for bombings of US embassies in the middle east, as i have posted already, but you people lack the ability to read thoroughly, as it seems.
and you think the US government is not capable of killing its own citizens?
Think WWII, the Japanese Americans were brought to concentration camps and were riled up too, also it is one of the few countries with death penalty still going.
here are some links which show other acts of american terrorism, even though its of topic but you asked for it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_state_terrorism#Nicaragua_.281979.E2.80.9390.29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_state_terrorism#Nicaragua_.281979.E2.80.9390.29)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canicattì_massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canicattì_massacre)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_massacre)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Teardrop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Teardrop)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange) to name a few
I don't claim that Osama was not behind the world trade bombing, i just say that you should stop believing all the crap they tell you on tv and actually look at the facts yourself. There is much evidence going on against Osama bin laden, but there are inconsistencies in their arguments that lets it all shine in a different light.
you munchkin are the one who has failed to see, I remain respecting you for a flaw is only human. I did not claim at any point that i believed in all of it, i only said many arguments to make you think, but apparantly you didn't, good luck next time.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: /lurk on May 20, 2011, 01:19:03 pm
I DON'T CARE!


You still aren't using capital letters!
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Hammerman58 on May 20, 2011, 01:50:52 pm
Clay, Detox can I get the name of your supplier because when the rapture happens tomorrow I want it to be a good trip.

Hopefully I don't become as delusional.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: gec05 on May 20, 2011, 02:03:49 pm
Ok, I think we can put a stop to this current track of discussion before you guys get personal and out of hand.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Gnoll on May 20, 2011, 02:07:57 pm
Ok, I think we can put a stop to this current track of discussion before you guys get personal and out of hand.

How so?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: munchkin5 on May 20, 2011, 02:08:20 pm
Awww man, and I was just about to get personal and out of hand.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: gec05 on May 20, 2011, 02:16:03 pm
Ok, I think we can put a stop to this current track of discussion before you guys get personal and out of hand.

How so?

It's all fun and games until someone gets the banhammer...

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Clayface on May 20, 2011, 02:19:30 pm
I don't know much about such matters, but I'm pretty sure that not all, if any media outlets are under government control.

This is getting into conspiracy theory territory.

I work in News and we're not under government control, Clayface has no ****ing clue in what he's talking about.

Do you work for a National U.S. news station?

also, I am not saying he's isn't responsible for 9/11, i'm just suggesting the possibility for the sake of debate
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 20, 2011, 02:20:44 pm
Hey discussion aside, i wouldn't be discussin if I wasn't lovin
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 20, 2011, 02:27:36 pm
www.hurrderpIcanlinkwikipedia.com/mylai

Way to completely show you don't actually bother reading my post at all, because one of the examples you gave was the one I said to you. Just to re-iterate: I know about things that I know about.


Which makes sense, considering all you do is leaf over other people's posts, and then debate against a strawman of a vague approximation of the other party.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Kaizer on May 20, 2011, 02:46:05 pm
This thread is as dead as Bin Laden
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 20, 2011, 02:47:41 pm
So i posted something you said, i posted three others too, and could post more with more time on research

its interesting how you enact in hostility, when there is no harm coming from my way
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 20, 2011, 03:03:56 pm
I guess I WAS a little hostile.


But still, your debating tactics are really bad.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 20, 2011, 04:01:34 pm
Before we get much further, I don't want to let these two little gems go.

If something like this were true, how many people do you think would know the truth? You think the government would tell all of its workers and they all promised to keep their mouth shut?  It most likely was planned by a group of 4-5 higher ups, + 2 black ops agents to carry it out, no one else would have any way of knowing.  It might have even gone over the head of the president.
The president is not the leader of this country, he is a figurehead, like the King or Queen of England, and holds no true power.

So how to two agents bring down four planes?  And if the president is just a figurehead, who holds true power?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Gungnir on May 20, 2011, 04:19:41 pm
Here's what we should be asking: Where are the lizardmen that put the president and other world leaders into power? They're the ones at fault for everything.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: /lurk on May 20, 2011, 04:54:25 pm
Here's what we should be asking: Where are the lizardmen that put the president and other world leaders into power? They're the ones at fault for everything.

No Gungnir, you are the lizardmen.

And then Gungnir was a lizard.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Legodragonxp on May 20, 2011, 05:09:26 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/iwvcQ.jpg)

-Lego
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Gungnir on May 20, 2011, 05:32:08 pm
I'm not happy! I feel betrayed! And used! Like a rag or some-

Ooh. Wait, this is awesome! I'm a lizardma-
No. Nope definitely human. No trace of lizardry here. All mammal. Yep...
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 20, 2011, 10:18:39 pm
If you can't back up the statements you make, then you shouldn't say them in the first place.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Clayface on May 21, 2011, 12:01:01 am
I could say the same to you sir
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Didero on May 21, 2011, 02:09:56 am
I could say the same to you sir
And yet the burden of proof is on you, and not on Inkling. You're the one that has to back your claims up. Inkling isn't making any claims in the first place, he's just asking you to elaborate yours.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Future Neoadept on May 21, 2011, 05:15:23 pm
Once the timelines get partitioned off, Bin Laden's McMansion is going to get turned into the this depressing cheap tourist trap, like those highwayside attractions you get out west. Nothing but vacationing time-travellers using the restrooms on their way to World War 2 and a little souvenir stand that sells cheap nanofabricated t-shirts.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Brandonazz on May 21, 2011, 05:20:44 pm
Do you mean to imply that the temporal distance between any two points and the energy required to traverse it does not scale linearly?

Or is there a recharge period that must be respected and a maximum energy yield per device?

How many years is the usual jump between stops?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Future Neoadept on May 21, 2011, 05:43:51 pm
Depends on your ride.  Those poor bastards are one step up from walking, what with using the long fall and a teleportation matrix.

'Course, in their case it's not a matter of power, the long fall is a permanent fixture.  It's just that it's the public services version of time travel, and that many sweaty fat morons can't stand to be in each other's company in a tiny box for the whole trip.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 21, 2011, 09:20:22 pm
If you can't back up the statements you make, then you shouldn't say them in the first place.
I could say the same to you sir

I am more than happy to defend anything I have said in this thread, right after you you explain who holds "true power" if the President does not.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Brandonazz on May 21, 2011, 09:27:26 pm
The Jews, obviously.

*eyes Gungnir warily*
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: sgore on May 21, 2011, 10:36:20 pm
Brandon.
Brandon, what have we talked about?
We have talked about how nobody is supposed to know that.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Luminar on May 22, 2011, 02:32:49 am
I don't see why Inkling should have to put his own beliefs on the line if you're just going to toss out vague suppositions and non-sequiteurs in lieu of your actual beliefs.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 22, 2011, 12:08:48 pm
For the sake of argument, what If I said the   Zionist Illuminati

Then for the sake of argument I would say you are either parroting brandon and don't know what you're talking about, or are a raging anti-semite who thinks it couldn't have been Muslim terrorists that attacked the US, it had to be THE JEWS!!


But I'm not interested in the sake of argument.  I want to know if you really think there is some person or persons who trump the President, or if this is all a hypothetical.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Didero on May 22, 2011, 12:12:23 pm
But I'm not interested in the sake of argument.  I want to know if you really think there is some person or persons who trump the President, or if this is all a hypothetical.
Of course there is! Haven't you been reading XKCD (http://xkcd.org/898/)?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Clayface on May 22, 2011, 03:56:13 pm
I've retracted my statements,  what I was saying was for the sake of argument,  I have no way to prove anything I said to be correct, but at the same time you have no way to prove anything I have said to not be correct.  Nobody knows the truth for sure and there really isn't any way to prove anything one way or the other
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: sgore on May 22, 2011, 04:15:40 pm
Clayface, no offense, but that seems like a fair bit of mental posturing just to protect from any challenges against an opinion you might have.
Deductive logical reasoning does not mean starting from a hypothesis and then challenging people to disprove it, it means having that hypothesis and then backing it up.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 22, 2011, 09:03:57 pm
First of all, deleting posts in a discussion is always a jerk move.

And you're right, if I cannot trust government, media, and eye witness accounts, as you seem to suggest, then it is hard to say what did and didn't happen.  And if we cannot trust any similar records from the time, you couldn't prove to me that President Kennedy wasn't shot, but was instead turned into a glazed donut by a wizard.

There's reason that I'm pressing you on the issue, that I'm not interested in leaving it as a possibility to consider.  This isn't just some thought experiment, like wondering if other people see the world in different colors or something.  The idea of 9/11 being an inside job has serious, serious consequences.  I'm talking armed revolution consequences.

Analogy time, everyone loves analogies.  Say you have a neighbor, whose son is killed in broad daylight in a drive by shooting.  The alledged shooter is identified, and a huge crackdown is launched against his gang.  Meanwhile, you have a suspicion that the gang wasn't really involved, and your neighbor set the whole thing up himself.  This isn't an issue you should just leave alone, you might be living next to a murderer.  You have an obligation to get your facts straight.  If there is any evidence, you better do something to act on it, so the person who killed his own son is brought to justice.  If you don't have any evidence or don't bother to really look into it, then you should really quit telling everyone else in the neighborhood that your neighbor probably killed his own son, that they should at least consider it as a possibility.  It makes your look either paranoid or stupid, and irritates the neighbors.

I know you've already backed down, but I'm saying this for Detox, too.  Have some freaking credible evidence and know what you're talking about, or shut the hell up about possibilities and having an open mind.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Clayface on May 22, 2011, 10:33:33 pm
well said good sir, and I liked your analogy
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Krakow Sam on May 23, 2011, 12:59:35 am
Quote
President Kennedy wasn't shot, but was instead turned into a glazed donut by a wizard.

Weeeellll, Kennedy was ein Berliner.

Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 23, 2011, 12:50:46 pm
Freedom of Speech doesn't seem to be part of your pantheon...
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: gec05 on May 23, 2011, 12:58:34 pm
Quite honestly, freedom of speech has just become an excuse for people to be stupid or get other people mad without serious consequences. I think we are pretty well and far removed from an age where you can get burned at the stake for calling the president a poo poo head.

The point is, freedom of speech still doesn't hide the fact about how baseless your argument is.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: /lurk on May 23, 2011, 12:59:23 pm
Freedom of Speech doesn't seem to be part of your pantheon...

Of course not.

We worship only the Æsir.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Kishmond on May 23, 2011, 01:05:58 pm
Have you been going on about this for almost 10 pages? Tsk tsk.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Ultimatum on May 23, 2011, 01:07:58 pm
Can't you guys find something else to discuss?
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Inkling on May 23, 2011, 01:17:01 pm
Quote
President Kennedy wasn't shot, but was instead turned into a glazed donut by a wizard.

Weeeellll, Kennedy was ein Berliner.

Of course, there are always clues left for those with an open mind to find.  You just have to be willing to look, man.  Who do you think the wizard worked for?
THE RIDDLER
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Gnoll on May 23, 2011, 02:30:41 pm
Freedom of Speech doesn't seem to be part of your pantheon...

Of course not.

We worship only the Æsir.
OBJECTION! I'm atheist.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Cyst on May 23, 2011, 06:43:02 pm
Over ruled. Nobody cares.
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Legodragonxp on May 23, 2011, 08:00:18 pm
OK, both of you die and let us know what happens.

-Lego
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: Detoxicated on May 23, 2011, 08:55:48 pm
 :-*
I think this should be locked, as I feel that this thread will lead to a flamewar.

-Detoxicated I
Title: Re: Bin Laden is DEAD!!!!!!
Post by: gec05 on May 23, 2011, 09:47:07 pm
Good idea.