Gaming Steve Message Board

Games, Games, and More Games => PC Games => Topic started by: Hydromancerx on January 15, 2011, 05:01:19 am

Title: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on January 15, 2011, 05:01:19 am
(http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u338/strategyonly/caveman2cosmos1.jpg)

C2C
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=288570

If anyone has been wondering what I have been up to. Well after the big disappointment of Civ5 I went back to my modding roots and helped out with a mod I once worked on. You see there was an awesome mod called "Rise of Mankind" that I followed for a long time. Then it got added on to with another mod called "A New Dawn". The creator of this mod taught me how to mod and for a time life was good and I helped out with that. However he eventfully got tired of all the modding I added so he stripped down the mod and kicked me out of it. I still made my own mod on top of his (a modmodmod) and it was good for awhile however then Civ5 came out and everyone basically went away. Both RoM and AND got retired and only a few modders were left. I am poor and could not afford Civ5. Thankfully it sucked and I saved some money. So I went back to mod again, but to my surprise another moder was continuing some of my ideas in a mod called NWA Prehistoric. Well you know how much I like caveman stuff and I asked if I could join, and well he ahs been awesome. We also adoped another abandon project called Accent of Mankind (AToM) which was going to be thrown away by a friend modder. As you guested I had a hand in planning that as well. So now with RoM and AND retired in their final versions and I collected up my mods and combined them into the prehistoric mod, added some space mod and thew in a lot of new stuff and poof we get Cavemen to Cosmos!! My current, and most awesome Civ4 mod. Not only do i get the freedom to mod the way I want but I get to do it with other awesome modders.

It has so many features I have no idea where to start. It has 9 eras which stretch from prehistoric to galactic. There are so many buildings and units and techs that you will be blown away with the level of depth. If you have any questions please go to the link above. Just though you Civ4 fans would like to see what I have been up to and maybe even try it out.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Clarke on January 15, 2011, 09:51:44 am
I like Civ V. >.>
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Raz on January 15, 2011, 11:26:06 am
*swats Clarke away*

I'm guessing you guys are still alpha or beta phase. Lots of errors and imbalance right?
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Celdur on January 15, 2011, 12:59:26 pm
i like civ5 too :3
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Krakow Sam on January 15, 2011, 01:31:09 pm
So do I!

Catherine the Great, know what I mean. Nudge nudge.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Gungnir on January 15, 2011, 02:04:43 pm
I...don't own Civ 5.

I'll check this out, I suppose.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Flisch on January 15, 2011, 03:01:16 pm
I like Civ V. >.>
You haven't even played the prequels...
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Clarke on January 15, 2011, 03:04:21 pm
Yep :D
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Tesla on January 15, 2011, 03:04:41 pm
I also love Civ V. >_>
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on January 15, 2011, 04:41:32 pm
Then i guess you guys have never played RoM or AND. If you had you would feel like Civ5 was really lacking. Civ5 compared to them are like comparing Pong to WoW. But that's just my bias opinion since now I am modding on top of those. At any rate if you own Civ4 and its expansions then you need to try out this mod. Then tell me how it compares to Civ5.

*swats Clarke away*

I'm guessing you guys are still alpha or beta phase. Lots of errors and imbalance right?

We are good in getting rid of errors but imbalance is still an issue since we are still building. I have a lot I want to add so I am not sure what you would call this. RoM and AND are final and have little to no errors and are balanced. So I suggest you try them first if you want a balanced game. However we are adding even or more content so those start to feel empty and lacking if you have played C2C. In short the more we add the more we wonder how we ever played the game without those new features.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Tesla on January 15, 2011, 05:16:37 pm
I played those mods. Those were mods that were added to Civ4 a long while after the game was released. It's not a fair comparison.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: gec05 on January 15, 2011, 07:03:53 pm
Also, comparing WoW to Pong? I haven't played Civ5 yet, but I find that to be a highly exaggerated comparison. Comparing Civ5 as a crudely programmed video game during the dawn of home entertainment system is quite a far cry when considering all the effort put into the presentation of Civ5. It just doesn't have nearly as much the content, sure. But you're forgetting this game is still fairly new with a possible expansion in the works. The modding community still has yet to grow accustomed to the new environment. Obviously the amount of available mods for Civ4 make it all the more appealing, hence why you conclude Civ5 sucks.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Krakow Sam on January 16, 2011, 05:45:19 am
Not to mention, not everyone likes a billion and a one different units and options and what-have-you. Its a mistake to equate "amount of content" with depth.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Tesla on January 16, 2011, 06:31:52 am
Hydro, I think the amount of willing modders you can find reflects the amount of people who will actually be interested in playing this mod.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Kenotai on January 16, 2011, 07:16:54 am
Whenever I get CivIV and have played the base game for a while I will definitely try this out.  :)
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on January 16, 2011, 11:55:21 am
I played those mods. Those were mods that were added to Civ4 a long while after the game was released. It's not a fair comparison.

Yes, mods take time, I get that. And it was not until Civ4 had both expansions made that it actually was worth modding. Since if you made mods before that you would have trouble converting.

Hydro, I think the amount of willing modders you can find reflects the amount of people who will actually be interested in playing this mod.

That's good then. Because a lot of modders who jumped on the Civ5 band wagon have since returned to mod for Civ4. And even before Civ5 there were a lot of modders for this mod (well the predecessors of this mod).

Not to mention, not everyone likes a billion and a one different units and options and what-have-you. Its a mistake to equate "amount of content" with depth.

I totally agree. I am in the camp of "more is more" while I know many other modders who believe "less is more". IF you think less is more then play Civ5 or even RAND since it has cut back a lot from what RoM+AND was. The creator of RAND, Afforess, is totally in your camp and there are lots of others in the Civ4 community who would agree with you. I just happen to like to mod by adding, not subtracting.

Also, comparing WoW to Pong? I haven't played Civ5 yet, but I find that to be a highly exaggerated comparison. Comparing Civ5 as a crudely programmed video game during the dawn of home entertainment system is quite a far cry when considering all the effort put into the presentation of Civ5. It just doesn't have nearly as much the content, sure. But you're forgetting this game is still fairly new with a possible expansion in the works. The modding community still has yet to grow accustomed to the new environment. Obviously the amount of available mods for Civ4 make it all the more appealing, hence why you conclude Civ5 sucks.

Ok maybe its an exaggeration, but I still feel like Civ4 (even Vanilla) is superior to Civ5 when it comes to the ability to mod it. Sure Civ5 has nicer graphics (not by much) and hex is cool. But overall being able to actually mod Civ5 has been not only difficult for other modders but really frustrating. Many of the aspects of modding they use to be able to do has just been hard-coded or dumbed down and even taken out of the game all together (can we say religions?).

But really this topic was not ment to debate whether or not Civ5 is better than Civ4, its to show you this awesome mod and that you should try it out because a lot of people put a lot of their time and effort into the game and really it is like 3 or 4 expansions into one, if not an entirely new game that just happens to use Civ4 as its base.

Whenever I get CivIV and have played the base game for a while I will definitely try this out.  :)

Awesome. I suggest you work your way up by playing RoM and then AND before trying out C2C. It can be overwhelming for new players. Its more aimed for veteran Civ4 players crave more content.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Detoxicated on January 18, 2011, 03:19:26 am
honestly hydro. this looks awesome.
Hydromancer, you're probably the most creative character on this very forum, but it's not your creativity which intrigues me, it is the fact that you start projects from scratch and you succeed to bring them up to a sophisticated level. (think sagan, the nauceaans, now this)
Once i have civ 4 installed, ill definitly check this mod out, as i already loved RoM...
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on January 18, 2011, 04:52:51 am
Thanks Detoxicated! :D

BTW Version 7 came out today. He releases around 1 update a month since we have been producing so much new stuff. You can download it here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15324). Enjoy!

Oh also I still do Sagan 4 Detoxicated. It runs on autopilot most of the time, but we still get new members so it never quite dies. Just yesterday I posted 2 new species. I don't think I will ever give up Sagan 4. Its just too fun for me to post when I get in the mood.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Raz on February 01, 2011, 12:05:35 pm
I've been playing A New Dawn and I've been re-addicted to Civ4. Was up to like 1 am on a school night last night because I kept wanting to keep going. Anyway, I think AND has just the right amount of content. It's not too slow, not too fast, and there is a good amount of depth and thought. However, I'm not sure C2C would hit that balance like AND does, instead opting for an overflow of content.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on February 01, 2011, 02:18:37 pm
I've been playing A New Dawn and I've been re-addicted to Civ4. Was up to like 1 am on a school night last night because I kept wanting to keep going. Anyway, I think AND has just the right amount of content. It's not too slow, not too fast, and there is a good amount of depth and thought. However, I'm not sure C2C would hit that balance like AND does, instead opting for an overflow of content.

Well from the feedback have had its seems we have optimized things so the game runs faster than even AND yet with more content. Right now not everything is balanced or even put in. So maybe in a few months we will work out the balance issue of the new content. Needless to say AND feels naked without the stuff we added since a lot of it actually use to be in AND before Afforess took it out.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on March 20, 2011, 04:06:22 pm
The new C2C version came out today! You can get it here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=288570)!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Brandonazz on March 20, 2011, 07:31:40 pm
The early periods in this game plus the RoM base are just fantastic.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on March 22, 2011, 08:54:25 pm
The early periods in this game plus the RoM base are just fantastic.

Thanks! Just got done with a some more tweaking and building for the next update. we update around once a month so it will be awhile till its in the mod. I am really happy with how the game is shaping up. I can't wait to see how the Galactic Era works out since we are just in the beginning of applying it to the game.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Flisch on March 25, 2011, 05:19:24 pm
So I wanted to try the mod, but whenever I load the mod it sends me back to the desktop and nothing happens... ???
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on March 25, 2011, 11:26:49 pm
So I wanted to try the mod, but whenever I load the mod it sends me back to the desktop and nothing happens... ???

Weird. Post your errors here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=288570).
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on May 13, 2011, 12:25:43 am
C2C v11 came out today! A whole bunch of new content, many fixed bugs and a ton of fun! :D
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on June 05, 2011, 12:51:48 pm
@Brandonazz

Nice to see ya posting over on the CFC. Thanks for the feedback.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Xoatl_169 on June 19, 2011, 07:45:35 am
Been playing the Rise of mankind 2 mod for awhile now. I usually play on gigantic earth maps and when i reach industrialism it takes like 5 mins each turn. Once I get a computer with high processing power (I assume thats the reason for the slow turns) ill revisit ROM and maybe your mod.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on June 26, 2011, 02:58:14 am
C2C v13 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=288570) cam out yesterday. Its very fun! It also has a new feature that allows for future updates to not break your game if you reload an older game (v13 or above). I have no idea how they did it but man its great not having to restart a game every time we have an update (which is often for the modders like me).
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 04, 2011, 07:52:20 pm
C2C v15  (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=288570)came out yesterday. Its very fun and improved speed. Lots of new features like dynamic culture and lots of new units. Also the AI has improved greatly. I have lost twice in a row due to how hard the AI is to beat now. I love how challenging it is and the computer is not doing as many stupid thing anymore. :D Just though i would share since i know there are some civ fans on GS.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Yokto on August 04, 2011, 09:05:22 pm
I should give it a try.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 14, 2011, 09:40:38 pm
I should give it a try.

You should.

Also we got our own sub-forum on August 7th. :D

Civ 4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=449

We asked for it for awhile now. its good to finally get it. Yay!  8)
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: PatMan33 on August 14, 2011, 09:43:04 pm
Since you're online at the moment, can you give me the elevator pitch on your mod, Hydro?
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 14, 2011, 10:20:05 pm
Ok i will try ...

Caveman to Cosmos is a "Civilization 4 - Beyond the Sword" mod which has the philosophy is "more is more", and we take this to the limit. We have 9 eras, which span from the Prehistoric Era to the Galactic Era. We have tons of techs (https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AsdBtytHP7lodDl2a2tIYkVQSjBIRjRSb29YLW9NZ2c&output=html) which cover not only military and scientific techs but cultural and social techs. We have currently 13 different civics ranging from Military and Economy to Education and Language.

We have a very active team of about 5 to 7 modders who each bring a different aspect to the game. Our updates are fast and frequent due to SVN collaboration. Its an ever growing and evolving game that despite having more than any Civ 4 mod out there we have actually improved efficiency thanks to our master modders. They also have a feature that allow compatibility between older versions. This means you can keep playing your game even when you have updated.

Its very hard to list all the things in the mod but here are some new things i think are cool ...

1. Dynamic Culture - Based on your starting civ and terrain you find yourself in determines what type of civ you will become. Just because you picked Rome doesn't mean you will stay as Romans. You could just as esily evolve into the Greeks or Spanish or even bonus civs you cannot start as.

2. Goods System - A huge interlocked systems of goods that are depending upon what resources you have and what you build. For instance Wheat (Grain) -> Wind Mill (Flour) -> Bakery (Bread). There are also bonus resources where if ou have 2 types of resources near your city you can unlock new ones such as Banana + Sugar = Pineapple.

3. Revolutions - You must not only fight outside threats but help kep your empire from splintering into smaller nations. An old but good mod feature.

4. Prehistoric Era - You start out with nothing and work your way up. Resources are hidden until you can reveal them. You can actually hunt animals and either use them for food or to make special buildings. Fight neanderthals or ally them. You can only build one city at first but as you unlock different civics you can build more cities. Or just take over enemy cities yourself and gain not only more cities but assimilate their culture and shape your civilization's identity.

5. Alternate Timeline - If you build the right wonders and research the right techs you can unlock secret units and buildings such as Mammoth Riders or Steampunk themed vehicles. While not every game will have these they are there to give a little special flavor to a game.

I think I rambled on too much. I am sure I forgot like 90% of the features but i hope this wets your appetite for this mod. Let me know if you have any questions.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: PatMan33 on August 15, 2011, 08:57:56 am
Sounds good! It's like what Spore was supposed to be!

I'll give it a shot. I like having lots of stuff to manage.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 15, 2011, 02:25:11 pm
Sounds good! It's like what Spore was supposed to be!

I'll give it a shot. I like having lots of stuff to manage.

Yeah i would say it has some tribal phase, lots of city phase and a bit of space phase (still working on this part). No cell or creature phase. But hey its civ not Spore. :D
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Raz on August 15, 2011, 02:38:03 pm
Dynamic Culture would probably infuriate me if it switched me to some crappy civ. If I want to be Rome, I want to be Rome dammit, complete with their Legions (or Praetorians if you haven't fixed that yet), not the Zulu.  :P Which makes me wonder what kind of conditions you've scripted for each civ.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 16, 2011, 01:22:47 am
Dynamic Culture would probably infuriate me if it switched me to some crappy civ. If I want to be Rome, I want to be Rome dammit, complete with their Legions (or Praetorians if you haven't fixed that yet), not the Zulu.  :P Which makes me wonder what kind of conditions you've scripted for each civ.

Here is a chart of the current requirements (https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&key=0AsdBtytHP7lodDl2a2tIYkVQSjBIRjRSb29YLW9NZ2c&hl=en_US&gid=1). Right now there are only 2 of the 3 planned culture buildings made.

1. Regional Cultural (aka Native Culture) this spreads a regional cultural to every city. Ex. Culture (European)

2. Local Culture this is what use to be called an "Embassy". This enables specific units and buildings. Ex. Culture (Roman).

3. National Culture this has not been done yet. Once you obtain 3 cities with the same local culture then you can build a wonder that enables that local culture to all cities within your empire. Ex. National Culture (Roman).

This means that cities can have their own individual culture and even have more than one culture in a city. Thus if you start out as Romans you automatically have European culture and can build a specific European culture if you meet the other requirements such as resources, terrain, etc.

You can conquer other cites and gain their culture. For instance if you take over Japan you get Asian culture and thus unlock all the Asian dependent buildings. And since the regional cultures are actually "resources" you can trade them peacefully with other nations. There are 6 "Regional Cultures" ...

- African
- American
- Asian
- European
- Middle Eastern
- Oceanian

Currently we only have 1 playable Oceanian civ which is Australia. However we have 4 local cultures you can obtain which are ...

- Aborigine
- Australian
- Maori
- Polynesian

We have around 50 local cultures so far and plan to add a lot more.

Also some local culture buildings actually help speed up wonders if the wonder is from that culture in real life. For example the Chinese culture helps speed up the Great Wall.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: PatMan33 on August 16, 2011, 08:37:29 am
Just my own input on your culture system.

In conquering another civ, I don't think you should gain all of their cultural secrets. Otherwise there's no reason to play other cultures because eventually you can accumulate everything. There should be some loss of culture through conquest or what-have-you. It would add to the mod's replayability.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Raz on August 16, 2011, 01:53:12 pm
One of the points of ancient conquest back then was to convert the population from them to you anyway, or genocide them, and install your own people. It's the best way to ensure longevity for any ancient empire.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 16, 2011, 06:52:44 pm
Just my own input on your culture system.

In conquering another civ, I don't think you should gain all of their cultural secrets. Otherwise there's no reason to play other cultures because eventually you can accumulate everything. There should be some loss of culture through conquest or what-have-you. It would add to the mod's replayability.

Well individual cultures are not that easy to get. And by the time you take over some other, buildings and units are already obsolete. Some early cultures even go obsolete so unless you obtain them early you may not be able to get that culture.

One of the points of ancient conquest back then was to convert the population from them to you anyway, or genocide them, and install your own people. It's the best way to ensure longevity for any ancient empire.

True but many became a mixture of the 2 cultures such as Spain taking over the Aztecs and making a new culture as the Mexicans which has many aspects of the old Aztec traditions mixed with the heavily Catholic Spanish culture.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: PatMan33 on August 16, 2011, 07:57:57 pm
I understand what you're saying.

What I'm speaking of is simply from a gaming point of view and not so much a realism perspective. Though that may apply, too.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Raz on August 16, 2011, 08:19:22 pm
I'll probably give it a try later or something. I've been feeling like civ again.

Edit at 3:18 am :P, To be honest man, it's way too much. It's a nice idea, caveman to cosmos, but it's a bad implementation. I had 13 food coming off a single wheat resource, with a bit of tech invested in farming techniques. Rome was up to city size 9 fairly quickly. I got lucky that my first hut gave me an extra tribe to have two starting cities instead of just one, but still(that hut itself popped with a variant of settlers). Too many buildings and such. I spent most of my time rushing to build buildings, rarely any units. I don't feel like balance is really present, or that the level of progression/yields is very good either.

In short, it just feels like a bunch of haphazardly thrown together stuff that consists of "what else can we add?" rather than "what should we add?" that hasn't really been thought out. Pretty much all of the mod gives me a feeling like when a developer just badly tacks a feature onto a game for no real apparent reason. You probably have a lot of good features, and I can see the potential, but there feels like there's a major lack of polish.

By the way, the Goods(resource) buildings are an ingenious little circumvention of the game's limit on the amount of resources. Unfortunately these don't play by the rules of trade networks though, I don't believe, and the fact you can't trade these Goods to other civs.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 17, 2011, 06:35:02 pm
A few questions ...

1. What level of difficulty were you on?

2. What speed were you on?

3. What era did you start as?

Slower speeds, harder difficulty and prehistoric era should help if you did not already.

Also you got to remember its still being developed, so balance and stuff are not worked out yet. There are a LOT of factors and settings so it will be awhile until we get a nice polished game.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: PatMan33 on August 17, 2011, 06:38:14 pm
I also think that is a problem with vanilla Civ of any iteration. There are WAY too many buildings.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 17, 2011, 06:41:48 pm
I also think that is a problem with vanilla Civ of any iteration. There are WAY too many buildings.

If you play on snail speed they are not so bad. However I would say to you the base game and many other mods have too few buildings.  ;)
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Raz on August 17, 2011, 09:03:00 pm
A few questions ...

1. What level of difficulty were you on?

2. What speed were you on?

3. What era did you start as?

Slower speeds, harder difficulty and prehistoric era should help if you did not already.

Also you got to remember its still being developed, so balance and stuff are not worked out yet. There are a LOT of factors and settings so it will be awhile until we get a nice polished game.

I was just playing chieftain to see how things were, but I was on an island with just one other civ who I was going to crush eventually anyway. I always play Marathon as well, and I think it might've been Ancient or something, I thought it was unusual to have so many techs pre-researched. But judging from the tile yields even with just a bit of agriculture, either citizens need to eat even more or the yields need to be scaled down or something. I bet population just explodes as time goes by, though that may be historical and all, but still.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Josasa on August 17, 2011, 09:49:54 pm
In short, it just feels like a bunch of haphazardly thrown together stuff that consists of "what else can we add?" rather than "what should we add?"

This brought to mind a quote from a game I used to play.

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
                                                                                                                                           - Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Raz on August 17, 2011, 10:22:57 pm
Engineering eh?
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Brandonazz on August 18, 2011, 11:30:59 am
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
                                                                                                                                           - Antoine de Saint-Exupry
                                                                                                                                           - Leonard Nimoy

There we go.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 18, 2011, 06:39:51 pm
In short, it just feels like a bunch of haphazardly thrown together stuff that consists of "what else can we add?" rather than "what should we add?"

This brought to mind a quote from a game I used to play.

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
                                                                                                                                           - Antoine de Saint-Exupry

I hate this quote since every civ player uses it to nag at us about too much stuff. Like is said we are about adding more not stripping away. If you want stripped away go play AND or RoM. They have taken a ton of stuff out to seek balance. We take the philosophy that more stuff can be added to balance things out. Or even tweaking things that already exist. If things are removed we have a good reason for it.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Raz on August 18, 2011, 07:33:45 pm
You've added a lot of stuff at the expense of quality, balance, and polish. Players are annoyed when a game is made in such a way. Anyway is annoyed when a product is made in such a way. That's just how it is.

edit - and it's a far better methodology to add the basics, get everything hammered down, add more, hammer it all done. A jigsaw puzzle is hardest when you don't take it step by step, getting all the edges put together, etc.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: PatMan33 on August 18, 2011, 08:21:14 pm
My golden rule: do it right before you do it better.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 19, 2011, 12:12:04 am
edit - and it's a far better methodology to add the basics, get everything hammered down, add more, hammer it all done. A jigsaw puzzle is hardest when you don't take it step by step, getting all the edges put together, etc.

Using you analogy, i am just trying to get all the pieces made first. Making it all is the hard part, balance and tweaking is the easy part. In short i want to gather all the pieces before sorting it out. If i can sort some as i go that's great, but I am never going to solve the puzzle with missing pieces. And sometimes i find out i have the wrong starting pieces and need to make/find better ones.

The other method just leaves you with a really nice put together corner of the puzzle with the other part of the puzzle missing or complete. Right now we have many clusters of the puzzle solved and we know what the puzzle should look like from the front of the box, its just a matter of finding all the lost pieces and sorting them out. Instead of trying to put together what we already have even if the pieces don't fit.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Raz on August 19, 2011, 02:28:22 am
Apparently you don't seem to understand just how difficult it is to achieve balance. :P
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: PatMan33 on August 19, 2011, 09:34:35 am
Just face it, Hydro. Your mod blows.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Raz on August 19, 2011, 09:47:01 am
So mean, Pat.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: PatMan33 on August 19, 2011, 09:54:45 am
You're the one who won't let up. And you're not going to like it even if he made every unreasonable change you demand. :P

Go play another mod.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Raz on August 19, 2011, 10:01:08 am
The hell's wrong with you? You really seem to have been acting strange.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: PatMan33 on August 19, 2011, 10:02:03 am
Look, whether you'll admit it or not, you've been dogging Hydro about his mod for days now.

Just let the guy do his thing. It's a neat mod and of all the people he knows, he's not going to change it for the likes of you. Leave him alone.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Raz on August 19, 2011, 10:04:02 am
You know sometimes, it's best when you don't talk either, Pat. Being Pat doesn't give you a golden ticket to spout whatever you want.  ::)
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: PatMan33 on August 19, 2011, 10:05:43 am
Yes it damn well does. I'm better than you! 8)

Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it's wrong. Leave Hydro to his mod. Quit nitpicking him. He has a clear goal in mind, to add more to the game. You and I disagree with that, fine. But the whole point of what he's doing is to do that. So hey, whatever. Let it be.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 19, 2011, 02:48:36 pm
Personally i don't care if you guys want to play it or not. You can stay here and play "My Little Pony Island Adventure" for all i care. Just thought some others might be interested since i have played Civ 4 games with some people from this forum.

Its a great mod even if I was not working on it. If you want to see how a 3rd party reviewed it, here is a "Let's Play" You Tube video of it. Note this version is a few months old and many of the problems he had have been fixed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsmpKx18alc
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Raz on August 19, 2011, 03:39:17 pm
I never said it was a bad mod, I just said it still needs a lot of work.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Yokto on August 19, 2011, 04:56:21 pm
I did not get the mod to run... I do want to try it out however.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 23, 2011, 05:24:00 am
Yay! Version 16 came out today. If you want to experience the latest stuff this this is the version you want to play. So much new stuff. See the link for details on what's new.

C2C v16
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=288570
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on September 15, 2011, 01:36:58 pm
C2C v17
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=288570

Version 17 came out today. As always there is a ton of new stuff. Here is just a few of the features it has ...

1. New terrain types and features.
2. The new spawning of the Animals and Neanderthals.
3. The new Civics added.
4. The added new buildings and "Crime vs Law" buildings.
5. Alternate Timelines Units.
6. Added many types of Balloons and Cannon units.
7. Goods now spread via trade routes like resources do (still cannot trade them).
8. Traps and Towers now give damage to enemy units outside your city.
9. Some new promotions to go with the new terrain.
10. Some new modders joined the C2C Team.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on October 15, 2011, 08:17:23 pm
C2C v18
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=288570

C2C v18 came out today! As always so much new stuff such as heroes, new animals, new events, new units, new buildings, gold balancing, so many bug fixes and faster turn speed! Also a special Quill18 related Easter egg (if you can find it). ;)
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on November 25, 2011, 11:33:01 pm
(http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u338/strategyonly/wildanimals.jpg)

C2C v19
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=288570

C2C v19 came out on the 23rd. Sorry for posting it late but I have been busy with Thanksgiving. As with all versions there is just so much added each time we update. Here are just a few pf the new cool features this time ...

- We figured out how to get past the resource limit and now all "goods" have been converted to resources and we added even more new resources too!

- Added new types of things such as flammability and crime modifiers which either increase or decrease the chances of related events.

- Tons of new animals now that I learned how to convert zoo tycoon models into Civ 4.

- As always a bunch of new units, buildings and techs!

- Building/Unit filtering so you can organize the units/units you want to build.

- Tons of balancing, tweaking and fixing bugs and errors.

I am very excited about this version and have been playing it a lot. Probably too much so since I should be working on v20 for next month.  :D
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Raz on November 26, 2011, 12:18:48 am
How'd you get past the resource limit?
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on November 26, 2011, 02:22:22 am
How'd you get past the resource limit?

I personally did not solve it, the credit goes to one of our team member's AIAndy. This is what he said about it when he first solved it ...

Quote
I have been able to fix the limited resource problem.
Rearranging the characters loaded in CvGameTextMgr::getFontSymbols so it fits to the font file and uses the right amount of padding and changing the font file to fit the start of the generic symbols to the padding of 25 per row did the job.
The full set of resources that Dancing provided as a test case worked fine with the change (and caused a shift in the symbols without).

I personally don't care how he did it. As long as I can add more resources (which I have been).
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on March 01, 2012, 03:51:35 am
I always forget to update you guys but C2C v21 has been up since February 19, 2012. We are still growing in leaps and bounds.

Right now we are looking into multi-maps so you can colonize the Moon, Mars and a Galactic map. its going to be super epic if we get it all to work. We also have some alternative timelines such as Steampunk in the game. Other ones include Dieselpunk, Clockpunk, Cyberpunk, Atompunk and Biopunk. They should be very fun to play if you so choose to enable it in your game.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on March 28, 2012, 12:18:47 am
Caveman2Cosmos
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=449

C2C v22 came out today! We have a lot of new stuff include some advanced crime stuff. Also some Clockpunk stuff was added. I am very excited about this new version. If you guys do end up trying it out please tell me what you think of it!  ;D  8)  ;D
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on April 30, 2012, 01:16:54 am
(http://i.imgur.com/3DHAH.jpg)

Some shameless promotion for C2C. Poster by MrAzure.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Brandonazz on May 04, 2012, 06:55:23 pm
Welp, finals are done.

Time to play this for a few days continuously.

EDIT: loljk, keeps crashing, buggy as hell. Couldn't even play for 10 turns after a handful of attempts that took forever.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Pixxel on May 04, 2012, 08:58:34 pm

So have you guys tried Warlock: Masters of the arcane? It's pretty fun, kind of like Civ5 but with Magic.
There's a demo on Steam if you haven't tried it yet. :)

I saw no point in creating a new topic for it so let's pretend it's a Civ mod. ::)

Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on May 05, 2012, 01:16:43 am
So have you guys tried Warlock: Masters of the arcane?

I watched a Let's Play of it. Its not too bad from what I saw.

Welp, finals are done.

Time to play this for a few days continuously.

EDIT: loljk, keeps crashing, buggy as hell. Couldn't even play for 10 turns after a handful of attempts that took forever.

What setting did you use? bigger maps tend to be more laggy for some computers.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Yokto on May 05, 2012, 05:24:53 am
Interesting. I have to keep a eye on that game. I am also thing of getting Elementals. A game from Star Docks which also have the Master of Magic flavour to it (Master of Magic is a old game which is Civ meets magic. Look it up. It still fun to play and is on GoG i have heard.)
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on July 04, 2012, 12:28:49 am
Caveman to Cosmos version 24 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=288570) came out today!!  ;D ;D ;D

The team did a great job this cycle and it has so much new stuff. I personally discovered how to import and export 3D models so now we have a lot of new custom made units ranging from Da Vinci Tanks, Custom Hovercrafts and even a Dolphin Mech!  :o

(http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=323764&stc=1&d=1340180011)

The multi-maps are still not in yet but they will be soon if you want to use the SVN version which is updated regularly. We also have some new team members so a lot more is being made this cycle than before. The Future eras are being totally redone and it will give the Cosmos part that this mod deserves.

For more info check out our sub forum (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=449). We would  be happy to help you with any questions you may have or hear your ideas.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 02, 2012, 06:14:04 pm
Caveman 2 Cosmos v25 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=288570) came out today!  ;D

Now with viewports! Even old slow computers can run fast because the view screen only loads a small part of the map! You can make he screen as big as you want. Turn times have been speed up considerably since it only has to process what is in the view screen. You can move the view screen around in the Military Advisor.

There are many other features too!
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on September 07, 2012, 06:39:40 pm
Caveman 2 Cosmos v26  (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=288570)came out today!

Now with a complete Civic overhaul! There are not only new civics but new civic categories and re-balanced existing civics. Many buildings have also been re-balanced. Trans-Human Era techs have been redone and now French translation for nearly every file. Graphics for leadeheads and flags have also been redone to look better. Some new units such a a bunch of types of Battle Elephants, some wild animals like Playtypus and Toucan. The old guild system was removed and replaced with 18 new guild national wonder which help you build your empire better. There are many other new features too but those are the most notable.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Brandonazz on September 07, 2012, 10:00:49 pm
Glad to see the guild system overhauled. It made the corporate part of the game way too cluttered.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on November 03, 2012, 04:08:28 pm
Caveman 2 Cosmos v27  (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=449)came out today!

Now so many things were rebalanced in this version. We basically took almost an entire cycle to fix bugs, balance things and repair things that were broken. However there is always some new content too.

In other news I will be one of 11 players in a C2C multiplayer game. 6 of us (including me) will be doing a Let's Play of this human vs human game. It should be very exciting since the last Civ4 multilayer game I played was with LadyM and some others here on Gaming Steve. I can only imagine how crazy it will get with the C2C mod.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on January 30, 2013, 01:30:46 am
Caveman 2 Cosmos v28  (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=449)came out yesterday!

This time around we have some cool stuff like closeable Leaderhead Traits as you play. Also there are many more positive and negative traits each with more specified stats. Also the later part of the tech tree has been redone to be more historically accurate to when things were invented or projected to be invented. Also a ton of balancing to aircraft and other units. As well as some new types of resources (ex. Vanilla, Cocoa, etc), terrain features (ex. Caves, Ancient Forest, etc) and terrain improvements (Tidal Harness, Sea Mill, etc). Also more overhauls to the Civics too. And of course lots of new buildings and units. In short it has been a very productive cycle.

Here are some screeshots.

Pic1 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=341870&d=1359481906)
Pic2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=341871&d=1359481906)
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Brandonazz on January 30, 2013, 10:50:15 am
C2C: Turning games of Civ IV into Rube Golberg machines since 2010.

But in all seriousness, lookin' good. Maybe I'll give it another shot and hope I've configured everything to not crash this time.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Kenotai on January 30, 2013, 10:59:09 am
I've been playing this mod (only up to classic era) and I love it. I think you and all of your team has done a good job, Hydro.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on January 31, 2013, 03:04:58 pm
Thanks. :D

It really is a team effort. In which I am very proud and lucky to be a part of.  :)
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on March 28, 2013, 06:07:15 pm
Caveman 2 Cosmos v29 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=288570) came out today!
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Brandonazz on March 31, 2013, 03:34:49 am
Is this mod supposed to be played on one of the optional super-slow speeds? I'm in the second millennium BCE and almost every building in my capital takes one or two turns, and every unit takes less than one despite the fact that I'm playing on epic.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on April 02, 2013, 11:54:17 am
Yes. "Snail" is basically equal to Civ4 Vanilla "Normal" speed in terms of balance for this mod.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on May 08, 2013, 04:48:54 pm
Caveman 2 Cosmos v30 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=449) came out today!
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on July 13, 2013, 01:36:57 pm
Caveman 2 Cosmos v31 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=449) came out today! There is so much new stuff this cycle. We were very productive. One of my favorite new features is more in depth city siege. We also have a lot more Late Modern and Trans-Human Era buildings. Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=496015) are just some of the new features. There are more thing but the guy has not updated the list since June 20th.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 12, 2013, 11:16:43 pm
Caveman 2 Cosmos v32 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=449) came out today! Normally we do it every other month or so but we have had so much new stuff and some much needed bug fixes that the new version is out now a month after the last release. Enjoy!
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on September 23, 2013, 12:48:37 pm
Caveman 2 Cosmos v33 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=449) came out today! There is so much new stuff especially in the Transhuman era! The era is worth reaching now.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on February 26, 2014, 04:37:21 pm
Its be a long cycle but we finally have released Caveman to Cosmos v34 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=288570). There is too much to mention but its the biggest release we have had with 6 months worth of work.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: PatMan33 on February 26, 2014, 04:47:22 pm
IT'S BE JAMON!!
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Slinky on February 27, 2014, 08:18:04 am
It's be don't worry mon

Be happy

This site has much subjkect I am interested in
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: PatMan33 on February 27, 2014, 11:08:51 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJQcJBjObEc
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Kenotai on April 30, 2014, 11:45:03 am
I made a game and played for several hours, now the save doesn't load. It loads the mod and then fails at the loading screen for the save. I am really gonna go out on a limb here and assume that isn't by design.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on April 30, 2014, 11:52:40 am
Well first off if you have any problems lease post them in our Bugs and Crashes (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=460) sub-forum. Second what kind of setting did you have it at? Like how big was your map, how many other civs did you have, what's the strength of your computer? C2C is a HUGE mod not made for weaker computers if you have higher settings. And even then it will stress out even normal computers.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Kenotai on April 30, 2014, 11:58:49 am
It's a pretty high end computer, lots of ram big hard drive, higher end GCs. I can't remember the name of the size but it was the third from biggest (after having the biggest not go at all and 2nd largest crash when opening an adviser). And I had 20 civs with barbarian world turned on (which I guess means 40 cities but a filled map should have a lot more). A detail I also forgot to mention is that this is the first time I tried to load this save, it isn't like I was able to load it before and it stopped working, and I have had several working games before, at this world size even.

e: Well after reading a bit it seems that having a large map with even 20 civs is too many, even a great comp probably won't load it. Sorry, it also appears to be an intrinsic limitation from Civ IV's base game.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 17, 2014, 01:23:51 pm
Caveman to Cosmos v35 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=288570) came out today! Lots of changes, additions and fixes. See the change log (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=521753) for details.  :D
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Brandonazz on August 17, 2014, 03:01:59 pm
Have you done any more work on optimization? I like the mod a lot but can never finish a game without my well-spec'd computer throwing a fit.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: PatMan33 on August 17, 2014, 03:07:11 pm
This is important.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 18, 2014, 03:33:05 am
Have you done any more work on optimization? I like the mod a lot but can never finish a game without my well-spec'd computer throwing a fit.

I personally have not done much, however other on the C2C Team have. Specially in the area of leaderheads being removed from the mod and made available as an add-on download (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=464) instead of in the core. In addition sparth went though just about all the art to optimize them. From icon/button uniformity to reducing the file size of textures. Even removing unused art.

In comparison the download for v35 is 716.42mb and v34 was 1,422.78mb. While still huge compared to other mods we have basically halved the size of the mod by optimizing the art and removing extra leaderheads.

One C2C regular said ...

"Before the game started with MAF's at 1.8GB memory usage and after you removed them at 2.2GB used memory. After that sparth cleaned all the artfiles and we can now go up to 2.6GB used memory. That is why i'am against adding anything with lots of artfiles." - alberts2

Hope this helps answer your question.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Brandonazz on August 18, 2014, 02:04:41 pm
In comparison the download for v35 is 716.42mb and v34 was 1,422.78mb.

After that sparth cleaned all the artfiles and we can now go up to 2.6GB used memory.

That is a tremendous improvement!
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Kenotai on September 19, 2014, 02:15:44 pm
Wow so much for "backwards compatibility". I don't call it that when all the custom civs get removed and basically bork my save. I am very, very unhappy about this "update."  >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on September 20, 2014, 02:55:52 am
Wow so much for "backwards compatibility". I don't call it that when all the custom civs get removed and basically bork my save. I am very, very unhappy about this "update."  >:( >:( >:( >:(

Hmm, it should have given you another civ to play as. However in the next release we are adding back in some civs. Specially Tupi, Jivaro, Brazil, Maori, Aborigine and Polynesian. Since South America and Oceania needed more civs represented.
Title: Re: Civ4 - C2C Mod
Post by: Hydromancerx on May 17, 2017, 04:02:13 pm
Caveman2Cosmos got reviewed in a blog.

https://odingaming.com/2017/05/16/civilization-4-caveman-2-cosmos/