Gaming Steve Message Board

Games, Games, and More Games => Console Games => Topic started by: gec05 on September 08, 2009, 10:59:33 pm

Title: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on September 08, 2009, 10:59:33 pm
I thought I'd put a topic solely for SEGA's self-absorbed Erinaceid mascot. More importantly though, as it has surfaced for time to time these past months. SEGA has (finally) come to reflect deeply on it's mascot's reputation (again).

Though much of what we've seen recently has been expressed by SEGA as a fresh new appeal to a newer generation. Now they wish to tap into the core audience's deepest desires. Now based on their track record in the past of attempting that, they obviously came to realize they cannot satisfy all demographics with a single game each year or so.

Until recently when SEGA released a teaser for "Project Needlemouse" (http://kotaku.com/5355153/sonic-returns-in-new-2d-hd-game). Once again, I feel that SEGA is facing stronger pessimism than ever before. But SEGA does acknowledge everyone's dissent about the night time gameplay of Sonic Unleashed. In fact, SEGA promises this new one will be an even farther throw back to the old school formula than what the day time gameplay SU offered (which generally everyone loved about it). So does that sound even better?

Still, we'll have to see. But until then, I'm cautious about this.

Oh, and by the way. This is an all new Sonic game, not a retro-remake. Though a redeux of Sonic 3 & Knuckles would be sweet if this new one turns out good.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on September 09, 2009, 05:56:11 am
The lack of quick and early responses to this is indicator enough about Sonic's reception on this forum.

You know what Sonic needs? He needs Sonic Team to start doing things right. Sonic Team has been trying to do everything better for at least the last... decade and they've failed to do it right. A huge help would be to embrace the notion in gaming nowadays that old is new. "A further throwback to the old school formula" sounds too ambiguous to be all-that meaningful. Tell us they're making a 2D Sonic game, that'll kick public opinion up a whole bunch. And really, yes there's some finesse when making a 2D game... but the Sonic formula (and Mario and others) isn't exactly rocket science.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on September 10, 2009, 12:16:40 pm
The closest thing to a sonic game in a while was N, so that's saying something.

The sad part is that even though Sonic Team can't get it right, the millions out there making fangames do.  I say they fire the entire team and hire a bunch of indie devs.  Most of them know how to do it right.

I digress though, although it wasn't truly a Sonic game I enjoyed Dark Brotherhood.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Krakow Sam on September 10, 2009, 05:20:20 pm
To be honest, the old sonic games were never as good as the competition.

They are enduring because they had strong visuals and branding, but as a platform game, the Sonics were vastly inferior to the Mario worlds. Sure, sonic looked pretty and had the whole speed going for it, but the control was a lot more clunky and imprecise and there was never much going on with powerups and what have you.

I think its time Sega put sonic to bed for a while. maybe after ten years of no new sonic releases making all the fans jaded they will finally come to their senses and make a good game.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on September 10, 2009, 05:26:56 pm
I always felt the controls for the old Genesis Sonic games to be pretty solid. I don't know how you mash your buttons Sam. And I don't think the amount of powerups will make or break a game. The 3rd installment is a good example. Only had 3, but they were very useful getting through a level in different ways.

Heck, there's detail to it too.

The bubble shield had the benefit of breathing underwater. But it's secondary attack offers bounce which gives a slightly higher jump if executed at the zenith of a jump.

The static shield not only attracted rings, but gave a secondary jump for crossing large gaps or avoiding pitfalls when timed appropriately.

The fire shield not only protected from fire and lava, it also gives a horizontal attack for point-blank hits when attacking from above would prove fatal. It can also add as a quick dash.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Yokto on September 10, 2009, 06:15:16 pm
Jazz Jackrabbit is where it is at! A Green bunny sonic with guns >_>

Actually i like Jazz Jackrabbit and is a good game. Check it out.

And it would be fun to see Sonic return to form. One can do a lot with the speed formula i think.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on September 10, 2009, 06:45:41 pm
Gec, you only listed the shields.  What about the star thing and the speed boosting shoes?
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on September 10, 2009, 07:43:26 pm
I agree that the Sonic games were not as good as the competition (but I'm biased); however, I'd also argue that they didn't really need to be. They were different enough that they kind of stood out on their own, despite the advertising campaigns that beat us over the head with "Sonic is better than Mario". Still, the old Sonic games did offer a lot of exploration and (to me) had a much more arcade feel to them. I'm a sucker for arcade-style gaming. To me, Sonic was much easier to pick up and play and all of the extra optional material in the games made them that much better.

Chaos Emeralds and Hyper Emeralds? Yes please!
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Yokto on September 11, 2009, 05:02:30 am
It is not so odd that Segas Sonic games felt more arcade like. A lot of Segas base was the Arcades. And on top of that even Segas consoles where aimed at gamers but Nintendo have always tried to a rather wide audience. Even before Wii.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on September 11, 2009, 08:44:16 am
Nah I totally agree with you, Yokto. Mario was the better game.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Grazony on September 11, 2009, 09:25:06 am
Mario was always the better game to me. Sonic was just way to fast to dodge his enemies/walls/spikes/cliffs (how the hell do you dodge a cliff). Sonic had speed going for him an that was it. Nintendo had kick arse puzzles in all its games. Sonic you can only go forward. I tell what would be a fun Sonic game. One with no enemies, villians, stupid plots, useless characters, and everything else that made sonic stupid in the recent games. Just make it a large area like a rocky desert or something where you can go where ever you want at the speed Sonic is suppose to have and let him do weird trick and junk. You know like a skateboard/snowboard game only you can go where ever you want to like you want to run up the side of a mountain and do an untoled amount of backflips until he lands or something....... But hey that just my opinion.  :P
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Yokto on September 11, 2009, 11:32:33 am
Well if you ask me. The evolution of Mario was more dramatic then the evolution of Sonic to. All the 2D sonic games are pretty much the same. But each Mario game add a lot of new ideas to the mix but still stays true to the core.

That being said i still think Sonic has potential. Sonic did have some good game after all and if they try to focus on what sonic is about i am sure they can not only make good games but also be able to evolve that aspect.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on September 11, 2009, 11:35:24 am
Yeah, Sonic has lots of potential. In fact, it has so much potential it's a wonder Sonic Team hasn't been able to see it for the last decade. At least now it looks like they've finally realized that they don't have to try to reinvent the wheel (and FAIL) with each new Sonic game. All we want is to jump into the Arwing and shoot at Andross' minions, not run around on the ground with guns and rescue some stupid new character that we could care less abo-

Wait...
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: IamMe on September 11, 2009, 12:14:33 pm
To be honest, the old sonic games were never as good as the competition

When Earthbound came out it wasn't as good as the competition, for example Chrono Trigger. That didn't make it a terrible game though. In fact is has one of the largest cult followings for a Nintendo game ever (but NoA still won't release Mother 3 :P).

My point is, don't compare games to the competition, just focus on the game itself.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on September 11, 2009, 12:34:26 pm
They can't reproduce the Mother games because they don't own any of the music in them.  I've been through that other places before.

As for the sonic games, I do like a few of the odd ones (like spinball) but for the most part, I can't see how making a 2D sonic would survive in this tech-heavy industry.  If they made it with 3d models like the one shown in Brawl, maybe.  However, I've personally always wanted one that stuck to SATam.  I don't think Sal has ever appeared in a single sonic game.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on September 11, 2009, 02:00:01 pm
To be honest, the old sonic games were never as good as the competition

When Earthbound came out it wasn't as good as the competition, for example Chrono Trigger. That didn't make it a terrible game though. In fact is has one of the largest cult followings for a Nintendo game ever (but NoA still won't release Mother 3 :P).

My point is, don't compare games to the competition, just focus on the game itself.

Sam didn't say it was a terrible game though. He just said that it didn't stand up to the competition. And when you're talking about Sonic you have to mention the competition. Were it not for the competition Sonic would have never seen the light of day. He was made in order to combat Mario. The topic of Sonic (and Mario to a lesser extent) are hopelessly intertwined with one another. You can't talk about one without bringing up the other; therefore, the competition is a wholly valid point to discuss
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: /lurk on September 11, 2009, 02:14:06 pm
As for the sonic games, I do like a few of the odd ones (like spinball) but for the most part, I can't see how making a 2D sonic would survive in this tech-heavy industry.  If they made it with 3d models like the one shown in Brawl, maybe.  However, I've personally always wanted one that stuck to SATam.  I don't think Sal has ever appeared in a single sonic game.

Because Sonic needs more stupid animal friends.

Also the other Sonic cartoon was better anyway.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on September 11, 2009, 02:16:08 pm
And also, 2D is back and living it up! They've been churning out 2D and 2.5D games like crazy over the last year or so. I'm loving it! :D
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Snork on September 11, 2009, 02:21:02 pm
I stopped giving a crap about sonic when I was 10.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: IamMe on September 11, 2009, 02:24:55 pm
To be honest, the old sonic games were never as good as the competition

When Earthbound came out it wasn't as good as the competition, for example Chrono Trigger. That didn't make it a terrible game though. In fact is has one of the largest cult followings for a Nintendo game ever (but NoA still won't release Mother 3 :P).

My point is, don't compare games to the competition, just focus on the game itself.

Sam didn't say it was a terrible game though. He just said that it didn't stand up to the competition. And when you're talking about Sonic you have to mention the competition. Were it not for the competition Sonic would have never seen the light of day. He was made in order to combat Mario. The topic of Sonic (and Mario to a lesser extent) are hopelessly intertwined with one another. You can't talk about one without bringing up the other; therefore, the competition is a wholly valid point to discuss

Okay

but

Sonic games (no, all games) are better when you just look at the game itself and not look at how it compares to other games. Oblivion is a fun game on it's own but it's only "meh" when compared with Morrowind, etc.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on September 11, 2009, 02:33:11 pm
Hah, totally wrong, dude. Thinking of Morrowind makes me smile because I know I can go play Oblivion and have more fun. :P

Either way though, this is an industry and a business and so comparison to the competition is vital. And the games that can stand on their own without comparison? Good for them, they're the big winners at the end of the day (even if they pull a Psychonauts and don't sell). Though... that brings up another point. So a game is great. Cool! But it didn't sell so does that mean it is a failure?

I'm not saying this is my own belief, but I think it is an interesting discussion topic.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Yokto on September 11, 2009, 03:09:20 pm
As it is a industry that is out to make money if it does not sell then is a failure. From the publishers view. Pretty much anyone who have played Psychonauts will however call it a great game. Inversely a game can be crap in every aspects but still sell good due to marking or some other factor. For the industry this is considered a good game even if the players would never agree. Of course the problem is that if you produce games like that the IP will be pretty much worthless (and might reflect badly on the company it self) so that future earnings might get hurt. Still a few companies Biz Mod is to make cheap crappy games and turn a profit though marking and other tricks.

But sometimes a game can be a economic failure but still turn in to a gem in the industry. If a game gets a great cult status then the IP gains value even if the original title never made any big money. It does not happen that often but lucky is great games that get this treatment. Sonic brand live on this partly because is the old games people remember. That is why they have manage to release a bunch of bad games and still been able to sell it. But you can only push it so far.

Under the Mario brand both good and bad games have been released. But one big difference is that unlike Sonic Mario games have never had a long streak of bad games. There have pretty much always been a good game out there to outshine the bad ones. Also is often the spin-offs that are considered bad rather then the "main series".



Personally i think that Morrowind was better then Oblivion. But that is a other topic.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: IamMe on September 11, 2009, 03:13:16 pm
Hah, totally wrong, dude. Thinking of Morrowind makes me smile because I know I can go play Oblivion and have more fun. :P

Either way though, this is an industry and a business and so comparison to the competition is vital. And the games that can stand on their own without comparison? Good for them, they're the big winners at the end of the day (even if they pull a Psychonauts and don't sell). Though... that brings up another point. So a game is great. Cool! But it didn't sell so does that mean it is a failure?

I'm not saying this is my own belief, but I think it is an interesting discussion topic.

I actually haven't played Morrowind, I'm just going off of what I've heard 'round the internets.

Also I wasn't talking about if it sells or not, I was just saying it can still be fun. ):
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Snork on September 11, 2009, 03:30:20 pm
Hah, totally wrong, dude. Thinking of Morrowind makes me smile because I know I can go play Oblivion and have more fun. :P
Sir, please read this:
http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1027071
Yes, Oblivion is FAR more fun than MW, but as an RPG (I'm only comparing the vanilla games btw) Morrowind is the superior game.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on September 11, 2009, 04:34:18 pm
Yes, Oblivion is FAR more fun than MW, but as an RPG (I'm only comparing the vanilla games btw) Morrowind is the superior game.

And that goes back to my previous point. If a game is great and sells poorly, is it a success?

If a game is "superior" but not as fun as another, is it better?
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: eropS on September 11, 2009, 04:59:12 pm
If a tree falls in the middle of a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: IamMe on September 11, 2009, 05:26:52 pm
Only on Wednesdays.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Skyward on September 11, 2009, 05:37:19 pm
Hah, totally wrong, dude. Thinking of Morrowind makes me smile because I know I can go play Oblivion and have more fun. :P
Sir, please read this:
http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1027071
Yes, Oblivion is FAR more fun than MW, but as an RPG (I'm only comparing the vanilla games btw) Morrowind is the superior game.
Actually, I found Morrowind (vanilla) to be just as, if not more fun.

But thats just me.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Yokto on September 11, 2009, 07:00:06 pm
Yeah i think is about personal taste. I had a lot more fun with Morrowind then Oblivion. But then again i had more fun with Daggerfall then Morrowind.

But the topic is about the Hedgehog and not TES. Lets go back to that. Hay do you all have any ideas how to capitalized on the speed factor in new interesting ways?
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Inkling on September 11, 2009, 07:02:10 pm
I haven't played a new Sonic game in a long, long time.  What has been broken, and what needs fixing?

Other than that game where they had Emo Sonic with guns.  I knew that was a terrible idea from the start.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on September 11, 2009, 07:49:43 pm
Hay do you all have any ideas how to capitalized on the speed factor in new interesting ways?

That's what Sonic Team asked.  That's why we hate Sonic Team.

Go back to the old formula, maybe add a different kind of shield or two, and use the dark atmosphere of SatAm.  That's all I ask.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on September 11, 2009, 07:50:52 pm
I think they've learned not to deal with Shadow too much from now on.

Also too, most people misunderstand the approach of how you play traditional Sonic games. You're not expected to find every ring, defeat every robot, and explore every nook and cranny. You're expected to find an orchestrated path to reaching the goal in the most fastest and efficient way. So just as most of you have pointed out, it's a complex arcade/action game not meant to be spent hours with.

Based on those merits, that is what Sonic games are about. That sort of play style certainly is not going to appeal to everyone, which is why SEGA tried to make Sonic versatile. Which they failed at doing. And even if they get it right, people criticize how much it deviates from a traditional Sonic game. That may be the reason why SEGA was lost on how to broaden Sonic's appeal. I think it's only fair SEGA was trying to make him as versatile as Mario, though Mario always tends to overshadow him.

That's the elusive nature of consumer satisfaction for SEGA I guess.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Inkling on September 11, 2009, 08:04:50 pm
Also, what the heck is SatAm?
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on September 11, 2009, 08:13:35 pm
SatAM

Sat - Saturday
AM - As in, "not PM". In the morning

It basically means "Saturday morning cartoons".
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on September 11, 2009, 08:16:31 pm
SatAM is short for Saturday Morning. People keep using that term inappropriately referring specifically to the Sonic cartoon series though. But any show that aired on Saturday mornings can be considered a SatAM show.

The TV Series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_%28TV_series%29) of Sonic was actually an Americanized version of the games. The characters like princess Sally, Antoine, Bunnie, and Rotor are actually US made and were never considered to be put in any games by the Japanese. But they are very popular in the comic book series and are still active characters in the comic book series to this day.

I actually prefer that sort of Sonic canon to be in the games than the real world one they portrayed in the Sonic Adventure games.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on September 11, 2009, 08:23:56 pm
SatAm is used to describe the good version of the show "adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog", since there were two with the same name.  The first show is completely horrible, with crappy low budget animation, ear-grinding voices, a lack of any physics or common sense, the whole nine yards.  It was like [insert anime here] meets Peewee's Playhouse.  SatAm was good.  Flat out good.  It had fleshed out characters, an actual plot, a menacing, post-apocalyptic background, and Eggman was actually dark, brooding, and downright creepy.  Many people hate the last episode, but because it was too good.  It was the greatest cliffhanger I've ever seen in which Eggman is actually dead and one of his henchmen say "But now it's my turn" as they fade to black only to see the red glow of the eyes of a mysterious new threat.  End of show.  CANCELLED.

Anyways, the point is that SatAm was not only a sufferable sonic story, it was deep, complex, interesting, and managed to keep me interested even now.  Throwing it away was, in my opinion, the biggest mistake SEGA ever did.

If you wan't to know more, just look up the review ThatGuy did.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Grrr...
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Yokto on September 12, 2009, 06:48:46 am
Hay do you all have any ideas how to capitalized on the speed factor in new interesting ways?

That's what Sonic Team asked.  That's why we hate Sonic Team.

Go back to the old formula, maybe add a different kind of shield or two, and use the dark atmosphere of SatAm.  That's all I ask.

But they are not capitalizing on the speed factor. In fact what i have heard is that parts that where most fun in the most resent game was the speed. When you where taking out of the speed the game suffered.

Not you do not have to bombarded with action all the time to get a sense of speed ether. Is more about how one perceives speed. Bullet time like effect for example still gives you a sense that your moving fast even though is just everyone else moving slowly. A lot of things like that can be used and what i am asking is what ideas for capitalizing on sonic speed you all have. Gec hit the nail on the head i think when it comes to level design. That is more about finding a fast way and stylish to traverse the level then is about finding every little hidden secret or collecting every little ring.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on September 12, 2009, 09:05:13 am
T-they killed Eggman??!!!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Excerpt from unaired season 3 plot:

Quote
Robotnik was not killed on Doomsday, rather he has become trapped within the void as Naugus' prisoner.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Snork on September 12, 2009, 10:23:25 am
But it's unaired :'(
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Kenobro on September 12, 2009, 10:25:01 am
That's why people thought he was dead, because it was canceled.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Snork on September 12, 2009, 10:27:56 am
Why do all the awesome shows die young?
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Krakow Sam on September 12, 2009, 10:28:28 am
Hay do you all have any ideas how to capitalized on the speed factor in new interesting ways?

That's what Sonic Team asked.  That's why we hate Sonic Team.

Go back to the old formula, maybe add a different kind of shield or two, and use the dark atmosphere of SatAm.  That's all I ask.

But they are not capitalizing on the speed factor. In fact what i have heard is that parts that where most fun in the most resent game was the speed. When you where taking out of the speed the game suffered.

Not you do not have to bombarded with action all the time to get a sense of speed ether. Is more about how one perceives speed. Bullet time like effect for example still gives you a sense that your moving fast even though is just everyone else moving slowly. A lot of things like that can be used and what i am asking is what ideas for capitalizing on sonic speed you all have. Gec hit the nail on the head i think when it comes to level design. That is more about finding a fast way and stylish to traverse the level then is about finding every little hidden secret or collecting every little ring.

I think they just need to bring the games up to date with what people expect from a modern game. Developers aren't really expected or allowed to use cheap tricks to trip a player up (Like having an enemy come out of nowhere while you are running toward a cliff, which no-one could realistically be expected to react to).

This, I think means inventing some sort of system whereby people can get an early warning of what is coming up ahead, so they can react in time.

I also think they need to avoid the absurd quick time event style play which amoutn to watching a five minute long movie of Sonic running and occasionally pressing shoulder buttons to make him dodge.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on January 15, 2010, 01:02:38 pm
http://kotaku.com/5449238/surprise-sonic-is-the-only-playable-character-in-project-needlemouse (http://kotaku.com/5449238/surprise-sonic-is-the-only-playable-character-in-project-needlemouse)

So it's official, project needlemouse will be free of Sonic's annoying friends. And hopefully they will have little supporting roles in the story.

Unleashed did pretty good, having only Tails and Amy. But that fairy thing Chip was just a culmination of annoying. Hopefully we'll nothing of him.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on January 15, 2010, 01:07:40 pm
Don't forget the whole werewolf thing. That sucked.

And as someone who hasn't played the game I can say that with certainty.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Yokto on January 15, 2010, 02:07:38 pm
Hay do you all have any ideas how to capitalized on the speed factor in new interesting ways?

That's what Sonic Team asked.  That's why we hate Sonic Team.

Go back to the old formula, maybe add a different kind of shield or two, and use the dark atmosphere of SatAm.  That's all I ask.

But they are not capitalizing on the speed factor. In fact what i have heard is that parts that where most fun in the most resent game was the speed. When you where taking out of the speed the game suffered.

Not you do not have to bombarded with action all the time to get a sense of speed ether. Is more about how one perceives speed. Bullet time like effect for example still gives you a sense that your moving fast even though is just everyone else moving slowly. A lot of things like that can be used and what i am asking is what ideas for capitalizing on sonic speed you all have. Gec hit the nail on the head i think when it comes to level design. That is more about finding a fast way and stylish to traverse the level then is about finding every little hidden secret or collecting every little ring.

I think they just need to bring the games up to date with what people expect from a modern game. Developers aren't really expected or allowed to use cheap tricks to trip a player up (Like having an enemy come out of nowhere while you are running toward a cliff, which no-one could realistically be expected to react to).

This, I think means inventing some sort of system whereby people can get an early warning of what is coming up ahead, so they can react in time.

I also think they need to avoid the absurd quick time event style play which amoutn to watching a five minute long movie of Sonic running and occasionally pressing shoulder buttons to make him dodge.

Good level design and you should not have to relay on early warning keys like that. What you are describing is something that could easly turn in to a quick time event extravagance.

As i see it it would be better if you took a more parkour (to use a modern hip word.) style of game play where you several different options in the way to get form point A to B but is you job as a player to pick the path you think you can manage and that is the quickest for you. Not that parkour is about going form point A to B in the quickest possibly way. Is often more about flow and style. But both these aspects could also be added i think. Special rewards for graceful completion? Multiple ways to score on a level? Would make it both old school, modern and give it replay value.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on January 15, 2010, 02:23:28 pm
Multiple ways to score on a level?

Not to side with Sonic Team, but they have that.  It's called time, enemies, and ring collection.  (Admittedly, enemies killed doesn't exactly put a huge effect on the score like it used to.  To be honest, I'm not even sure if kills still add to your score.  Either way, there's still multiple ways to score >.>)

You want a score with replayability?  That's easy to do.  It's called online leaderboards.  Thanks to IP, we can have multiples... like

1. World
2. Continent
3. Country
4. Region
5. City

Better yet, there also needs to be a reward for staying on top.  Say for example, special items or ring bonuses for the obligatory Chao Gardens thing.  Nothing says you're the best in the world quite like a Chao with a Chuck Norris mask.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Yokto on January 15, 2010, 06:25:01 pm
Yeah when i mean different ways to score i mean it keeps track of different statistics. And natural online leader boards would be there if i made the game. Possibly even ghost replays. There might even be a event where players can rank someones replay based on is awesomeness. (Purely subjective of course.)

Anyway i do not really care about sonic so i guess the fans can come up with the game they want. I mean i have hardly played any of them. I just know a bit what sonics USP is and that the latest games have been poor in capitalizing on it.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Krakow Sam on January 16, 2010, 02:16:03 pm
I have some suggestions for improving Sonic.

One, Sonic needs to be louder, angrier, and have access to a time machine. 
Two, whenever Sonic's not onscreen, all the other characters should be asking "Where's Sonic"? 
Three...
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on January 16, 2010, 08:54:35 pm
Three: Funnel all funds into making Nintendo make another Star Fox game, instead.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Snork on January 16, 2010, 10:31:21 pm
Four: Sonic grows lasers.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on January 16, 2010, 10:46:05 pm
Five: Sonic's lasers grow lasers.  Really fast lasers with the ability to shoot lasers.  These lasers also happen to be really fast, but they do not shoot lasers.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Krakow Sam on January 17, 2010, 01:59:20 am
I'd be, frankly, more impressed if someone invented a laser which is slow.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on January 17, 2010, 02:02:35 am
They have, it's called any sonic boss in the last decade that has a laser.

Don't quote me on that though, I don't even know if any of the sonic bosses in the last decade have used lasers.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Yokto on January 17, 2010, 05:00:05 am
I'd be, frankly, more impressed if someone invented a laser which is slow.

They did that. Sort of. There is quite some research in to slowing light down. Though is really nothing more then manipulating the medium which light travels though. >_>
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Gnoll on January 31, 2010, 07:55:42 am
Send light into some particles that are at a billionth of a degree centigrade above absolute zero and you can stop light in its tracks, convert it to electricity, move it, turn it back into light, and send it on its way.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Krakow Sam on January 31, 2010, 04:12:36 pm
Oh, that'll be handy next time i want a slow laser battle in the middle of the god damn negative zone.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on February 04, 2010, 06:17:41 am
So SEGA recently made another challenge to its fans, to create 100 works of art of new badniks to use in the game.

The Sonic fandom out there isn't small, I'll tell you that. In a matter of a week, they 10 times more gave SEGA then they asked. As a reward, SEGA announced the name of project needlemouse.

http://kotaku.com/5463913/project-needlemouse-is-sonic-4-episode-i (http://kotaku.com/5463913/project-needlemouse-is-sonic-4-episode-i)
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Inkling on February 04, 2010, 10:04:40 am
So, Sonic 3 with better graphics, as an episodic download.  Yawn.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on February 04, 2010, 10:08:58 am
I'll pretend you didn't say that so we can continue to be friends, Ink. >:(
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: eropS on February 04, 2010, 03:00:28 pm
So, Sonic 3 with better graphics, as an episodic download.  Yawn.

Did you not like sonic three...? I look forward to this. Sonic was fun, still is fun, and an addition will be as welcome as another mario game.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on February 04, 2010, 03:09:51 pm
Sonic 3 & Knuckles was one of the best games of the 16-bit era and the best Sonic game.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on February 04, 2010, 04:33:43 pm
So Pat, do you think this is like NSMB, but with Sonic?

I think it's going to be. I think it's time other third party companies start copying Nintendo's methods on their franchises.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on February 04, 2010, 06:46:53 pm
So Pat, do you think this is like NSMB, but with Sonic?


See, that's where you're wrong.  It would be if you took out the co-op that made NSMB interesting and then you charge for every stage instead of just buying the game outright.  Even if the game DOES return to it's roots, their market strategy will give the thing a pathetically low return.  lots of people will buy the first because they want to see if SEGA's claims are legit for themselves.  Even if it does, half of them at the most will buy the second one and the lower profit margin for downloadable games means that they won't get farther than an episode three if that.  The fact is that the majority of the recipients for sonic games is 12 year old kids that get them from their parents at christmas, but the parents aren't going to buy downloadable content.  They'll buy a game that their kid can actually open, most likely some Mario products.  If this is really the return of Sonic's glory days, then it should be done right.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: eropS on February 04, 2010, 06:50:39 pm
Hm yes, the 17 year old financial wizard who happens to be hip with current market trends and in the know with how families and mothers buy their children games. And the fact that Sonic is targeted at 12 year olds only, despite the fact over 50% of gamers are over 18, and that Sonic is a hard ass game. Yes Dnd, please enlighten us more at the flaws of this strategy.

...Lower profit margin for Downloadable games? I mean with the no CD and production cost, no shipping, and no middle man such as a retailer, just paying Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony (which they have to do anyway), of course the margin is smaller.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on February 04, 2010, 06:53:03 pm
Because clearly Nintendo has failed at bringing back the old school Mario with the two NSMB games, poor sales and all. ;)
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: GroxGlitch on February 04, 2010, 07:08:39 pm
Eh, If they keep games making games like Sonic Unleashed, I think they really need to work on their final bosses. At least in my opinion, Dark Gaia Phase 2 was just anti-climatic. There was nothing about it that made it really all that memorable. It was just "collect rings and charge at the eyes while dodging metorites." And some his attacks were just cheap, as I couldn't figure out how to avoid them, such as that all 6 arms slash. To be honest, sence Sonic Adventure 2, all the Super Sonic bosses were cheasy remakes of each other. And, for example, in Sonic Heroes, working through all 4 teams to get that stupid little Metal Overlord battle pissed me, because for all the work I put in, I was hoping for a decent boss battle. But NOOOOO!  :P
If you can't tell, I like fighting bosses.  :D
Anyway, I'm done ranting.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Gauphastus on February 04, 2010, 07:16:34 pm
I've read a lot of comments about this announcement.
It's looks to be about the same split as there was with the last couple of games, maybe a little less.
Still, that's a lot of excited people. I'm still surprised there's demand for anything here after all the bad times.

That's one die-hard and dedicated fanbase.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on February 04, 2010, 07:17:25 pm
Also, I'd like to see Hyper Sonic and the Death Egg again.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: GroxGlitch on February 04, 2010, 07:24:23 pm
Also, I'd like to see Hyper Sonic and the Death Egg again.
Yeah, I was wondering what happened to Hyper Sonic.... and the Death Egg? That would be awesome in the new 3D graphics.
[Thought] If they wanted an interesting final battle for that, they could have it start against Eggman/Robotnik as Super Sonic, then you have to attack the Death Egg itself as Hyper Sonic to keep it from burning up in the atmosphere. [/Thought]
At least, I think that would be a cool final battle.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on February 04, 2010, 07:29:45 pm
Sonic is a hard ass game.

Of all the stupid crap you just said, I find this one the funniest.  Sonic is a freaking cakewalk, it always has been.  Even in the Genesis days, it was easy compared to the other titles out at the time like Legend of Zelda, MegaMan, Contra, Ninja Gaiden or the like.  It may be harder by today's standards, but that's just because today's games are one hell of a lot more forgiving.

Look, I know that the majority of gamers are over 18 but I also know that the majority of sonic fans are under 18.  I know that this sonic game in particular won't be targeted at minors, but I also know that the majority of those who would purchase a sonic game are those under 18 who will find it significantly harder to acquire.  I also know that that shipping and such raise the cost to produce the game, but I also know that the company earns one hell of a lot more off a boxed game than three to five bucks, which is the most Sega will earn per download considering that most people pay ten bucks for a FULL game on DLC, if that.

The problem, however, doesn't extend solely from the numbers themselves.  The problem will be the comparison.  A huge number of people will download episode I for the sole purpose of trying it out, seeing if it'll be what SEGA promised.  Especially thanks to the presumably low cost compared to the usual 50 dollar title, people will try it themselves instead of going to reviews.  This will bolster the confidence of the Sonic team, and they'll put out the second one as quickly as possible.  The problem is that they won't get nearly enough sales to meet their expectations.  They'll get a few thousand from the die hard fans that'll buy anything with sonic in the name, then a few people who will buy anything that's on their DLC.  After that, one of two things will happen.  Either A.- the majority of those who tried it liked it, in which case probably a third at the most will pay to continue their play.  The rest will either think it's not worth the cash for another half hour of gameplay or they won't even realize that it was released, since DLC isn't exactly the subject of all the publicity.  The alternative is B.- the majority that tried the first game believed strongly that it didn't live up to expectations and even less of them paid for episode II.

The point is, no matter how much of a profit is made SEGA will quickly see that they won't earn as much as they planned and Needlemouse will be cancelled, episode III never to see the light of day.  Either that or they keep trudging on, produce Episode III and watch it crash and burn, ultimately turning up as a loss and possibly pushing SEGA into bankruptcy.  The thing is, even if a Sonic game fails in the hardcore market all the twelve year olds have forced their parents to buy the crap for birthdays and holidays so that the games will still turn up a profit.  Now that the adolescent nest egg is gone, SEGA is on it's last legs and unless this game is perfect to the point that everyone who touches the controller instantly falls in love with it then SEGA will fall.  Chances are, Sonic will be bought by either Nintendo or Disney and the days of classic Sonic titles will never be seen again.  I shudder to think what Disney would do with the IP.

Also,
Because clearly Nintendo has failed at bringing back the old school Mario with the two NSMB games, poor sales and all. ;)

Three things are different between this and NSMB:

1. NSMBW is a boxed game, meaning they have a solid revenue from adolescents.
2. NSMBW is a full game, not only a handful of levels.
3. NSMBW's biggest appeal is the Co-op play, not it's "blast to the past".  Sonic IV doesn't have that.  If anything, there MIGHT be the time attack VS mode we saw in the Sonic Adventure games on the GBA.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: GroxGlitch on February 04, 2010, 07:34:26 pm
Sonic is a hard ass game.

Of all the stupid crap you just said, I find this one the funniest.  Sonic is a freaking cakewalk, it always has been.  Even in the Genesis days, it was easy compared to the other titles out at the time like Legend of Zelda, MegaMan, Contra, Ninja Gaiden or the like.  It may be harder by today's standards, but that's just because today's games are one hell of a lot more forgiving.

Look, I know that the majority of gamers are over 18 but I also know that the majority of sonic fans are under 18.  I know that this sonic game in particular won't be targeted at minors, but I also know that the majority of those who would purchase a sonic game are those under 18 who will find it significantly harder to acquire.  I also know that that shipping and such raise the cost to produce the game, but I also know that the company earns one hell of a lot more off a boxed game than three to five bucks, which is the most Sega will earn per download considering that most people pay ten bucks for a FULL game on DLC, if that.

The problem, however, doesn't extend solely from the numbers themselves.  The problem will be the comparison.  A huge number of people will download episode I for the sole purpose of trying it out, seeing if it'll be what SEGA promised.  Especially thanks to the presumably low cost compared to the usual 50 dollar title, people will try it themselves instead of going to reviews.  This will bolster the confidence of the Sonic team, and they'll put out the second one as quickly as possible.  The problem is that they won't get nearly enough sales to meet their expectations.  They'll get a few thousand from the die hard fans that'll buy anything with sonic in the name, then a few people who will buy anything that's on their DLC.  After that, one of two things will happen.  Either A.- the majority of those who tried it liked it, in which case probably a third at the most will pay to continue their play.  The rest will either think it's not worth the cash for another half hour of gameplay or they won't even realize that it was released, since DLC isn't exactly the subject of all the publicity.  The alternative is B.- the majority that tried the first game believed strongly that it didn't live up to expectations and even less of them paid for episode II.

The point is, no matter how much of a profit is made SEGA will quickly see that they won't earn as much as they planned and Needlemouse will be cancelled, episode III never to see the light of day.  Either that or they keep trudging on, produce Episode III and watch it crash and burn, ultimately turning up as a loss and possibly pushing SEGA into bankruptcy.  The thing is, even if a Sonic game fails in the hardcore market all the twelve year olds have forced their parents to buy the crap for birthdays and holidays so that the games will still turn up a profit.  Now that the adolescent nest egg is gone, SEGA is on it's last legs and unless this game is perfect to the point that everyone who touches the controller instantly falls in love with it then SEGA will fall.  Chances are, Sonic will be bought by either Nintendo or Disney and the days of classic Sonic titles will never be seen again.  I shudder to think what Disney would do with the IP.

Also,
Because clearly Nintendo has failed at bringing back the old school Mario with the two NSMB games, poor sales and all. ;)

Three things are different between this and NSMB:

1. NSMBW is a boxed game, meaning they have a solid revenue from adolescents.
2. NSMBW is a full game, not only a handful of levels.
3. NSMBW's biggest appeal is the Co-op play, not it's "blast to the past".  Sonic IV doesn't have that.  If anything, there MIGHT be the time attack VS mode we saw in the Sonic Adventure games on the GBA.
Oh....my god......disney doing Sonic would spell the end for our little "prick" of a hero....
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on February 04, 2010, 07:37:20 pm
So Pat, do you think this is like NSMB, but with Sonic?

Oh my god I hope so! :D


**EDIT**
By the way, dnd, Gec is talking about New Super Mario Bros., not New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Or at least he was.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: GroxGlitch on February 04, 2010, 07:54:42 pm
This is gonna sound stupid, but.....
Why don't we all, as a forum (at least the people who like Sonic games) come up with a brainstorm and send it to SEGA? If Sonic's on his last leg, what's the harm in trying. Y'all seem to have a good understanding of what's win for the series, mebe we could get somebody at SEGA thinking again. I know it sounds stupid, but what's the harm?
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on February 04, 2010, 07:59:59 pm
This is gonna sound stupid, but.....
Why don't we all, as a forum (at least the people who like Sonic games) come up with a brainstorm and send it to SEGA? If Sonic's on his last leg, what's the harm in trying. Y'all seem to have a good understanding of what's win for the series, mebe we could get somebody at SEGA thinking again. I know it sounds stupid, but what's the harm?

Legally, an employee of SEGA can't read anything that includes off-site business advice.  If they did, the entire company would be viable for lawsuit if at any point in time they did anything that was written in any letter or email they received.  It'd be a pointless endeavor, and even if they did like our advice they'd never be able to act on it and we'd never get to see what we want out of a sonic game.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: eropS on February 04, 2010, 08:20:46 pm

Of all the stupid crap you just said, I find this one the funniest.  Sonic is a freaking cakewalk, it always has been.  Even in the Genesis days, it was easy compared to the other titles out at the time like Legend of Zelda, MegaMan, Contra, Ninja Gaiden or the like.  It may be harder by today's standards, but that's just because today's games are one hell of a lot more forgiving.


Yes, harder by todays standards. Kids today play by todays standards. Therefore Sonic will be difficult. And sorry if we all aren't gods of gaming and couldn't spend hours playing Sonic perfectly. I found it difficult myself.


Look, I know that the majority of gamers are over 18 but I also know that the majority of sonic fans are under 18.  I know that this sonic game in particular won't be targeted at minors, but I also know that the majority of those who would purchase a sonic game are those under 18 who will find it significantly harder to acquire.  I also know that that shipping and such raise the cost to produce the game, but I also know that the company earns one hell of a lot more off a boxed game than three to five bucks, which is the most Sega will earn per download considering that most people pay ten bucks for a FULL game on DLC, if that.


Did I say over 50% are over 18? I meant 75%. (http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2009.pdf) Please, do try to post some facts with evidence. You don't know the average age group for a sonic game. And, you are wrong, a company does not earn more from a boxed game over a digital one. (http://angrychineseblogger.blog-city.com/western_games_developers_told_learn_from_china.htm) If you're too lazy, feel free to scroll down to the segment Outdated Distribution Models? And do you even know anything about this game? I mean I shell out 5-7$ for 3 hours of expansion on some DLC's, whose to say that Sonic will be short? It may not be long too, so you're argument about the length of the game and whether or not its 'FULL' enough is moot.


The problem, however, doesn't extend solely from the numbers themselves.  The problem will be the comparison.  A huge number of people will download episode I for the sole purpose of trying it out, seeing if it'll be what SEGA promised.  Especially thanks to the presumably low cost compared to the usual 50 dollar title, people will try it themselves instead of going to reviews.  This will bolster the confidence of the Sonic team, and they'll put out the second one as quickly as possible.  The problem is that they won't get nearly enough sales to meet their expectations.  They'll get a few thousand from the die hard fans that'll buy anything with sonic in the name, then a few people who will buy anything that's on their DLC.  After that, one of two things will happen.  Either A.- the majority of those who tried it liked it, in which case probably a third at the most will pay to continue their play.  The rest will either think it's not worth the cash for another half hour of gameplay or they won't even realize that it was released, since DLC isn't exactly the subject of all the publicity.  The alternative is B.- the majority that tried the first game believed strongly that it didn't live up to expectations and even less of them paid for episode II.


A few thousand die hard fans? Where do you get that made up statistic? This entire paragraph is one long, sourceless, hypothetical. Usually, people who like a game, tend to buy more of it when a sequel or add-on is released. Feel free to look up any good game, and its corresponding sequel or XP to see how the trends went. And yes, once again you throw out how long the game will be based on no evidence. Moot point. And you say that its cheapness will be a bad thing, yet admit that it will draw in a larger crowd? What?


The point is, no matter how much of a profit is made SEGA will quickly see that they won't earn as much as they planned and Needlemouse will be cancelled, episode III never to see the light of day.  Either that or they keep trudging on, produce Episode III and watch it crash and burn, ultimately turning up as a loss and possibly pushing SEGA into bankruptcy.  The thing is, even if a Sonic game fails in the hardcore market all the twelve year olds have forced their parents to buy the crap for birthdays and holidays so that the games will still turn up a profit.  Now that the adolescent nest egg is gone, SEGA is on it's last legs and unless this game is perfect to the point that everyone who touches the controller instantly falls in love with it then SEGA will fall.  Chances are, Sonic will be bought by either Nintendo or Disney and the days of classic Sonic titles will never be seen again.  I shudder to think what Disney would do with the IP.


Right, because no game on XBLA or WiiWare has made (http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=4154) money. (http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=5133) Hey, wait, whats that?! Castle crashers made 10 million?! Street Fighter 2 made 4.5 million?! But they are new IP's or just renditions! How can they make money on a DLC?! Super mario 3 made 2.2 million? Madness! Thats an old school game, it wasn't even polished or redone! I don't even have PSN store numbers but needless to say, over the three consoles, its chances of making money are solid.

You have no evidence. You're just spewing random BS with no support, based on your 'observations'. Provide some facts behind your statements and perhaps I will take you seriously.

And you act as though sonic is the only IP SEGA has. They are not on their last leg, sonic might be, but that has been said since Shadow the Hedgehog and yet they still seems to be able to crank out more.

3. NSMBW's biggest appeal is the Co-op play, not it's "blast to the past".  Sonic IV doesn't have that.  If anything, there MIGHT be the time attack VS mode we saw in the Sonic Adventure games on the GBA.

Yeah, and looky here (http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2009.pdf). See Number 12 on the top 20 of 2008? New Super Mario Bros, without the Co-op.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on February 04, 2010, 08:24:15 pm
From a GameSpot Interview:

Quote
GS: Why did you decide to make this a downloadable title?

KB: In recent years, we've seen a huge surge of classic game properties making a return in this arena. [Downloadable] games offer players a chance to play terrific games without breaking the bank. It's also a promise to Sonic fans. We're going to deliver a Genesis-era Sonic game as if it were created today that goes to the core of what classic Sonic fans desire. This means [the fan] gets to judge us on our work each step of the way, and we plan on delivering that goal in a big way.

It would appear otherwise dnd.

Now this prospect scares me. Who knows what track of mind the current fans have who are actively giving input on the game. And Grox is right. There may be a need of purely old-fashioned and mild-mannered fans who really know what a Genesis Sonic experience should be like.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on February 04, 2010, 08:25:01 pm
New Super Mario Bros. is still appearing on charts... it's actually pretty amazing.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on February 04, 2010, 08:28:04 pm
And dnd, co-op was a horrible experience for a lot of people. Interesting, but horrible for competitive and perfectionist types. But it isn't the focal aspect of the NSMB franchise as a whole. As we pointed out, the DS version is the original and classic, and it had no 4-player co-op.

You seem to be building up a lot of fuss you really shouldn't be.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on February 04, 2010, 08:33:51 pm
Oh I agree. New Super Mario Bros. Wii was unplayable for me in co-op mode. Definitely fun... but when I wanted to make progress or unlock more levels (for us to play) I had to do it in single player.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: eropS on February 04, 2010, 08:35:06 pm
Eh I liked it... Nothing like jumping on your friends head as he leaps across the lava pit. Killing him and sending you in a super jump in which you miss the small platform and land on the opposite lava pit. Good times.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on February 04, 2010, 08:37:57 pm
http://forums.sega.com/forumdisplay.php?f=275 (http://forums.sega.com/forumdisplay.php?f=275)

Judging from the amount of chatter, this is just like the Spore forums. These people don't know what they want and they can't consolidate their discussions.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on February 04, 2010, 09:03:07 pm
From a GameSpot Interview:

Quote
GS: Why did you decide to make this a downloadable title?

KB: In recent years, we've seen a huge surge of classic game properties making a return in this arena. [Downloadable] games offer players a chance to play terrific games without breaking the bank. It's also a promise to Sonic fans. We're going to deliver a Genesis-era Sonic game as if it were created today that goes to the core of what classic Sonic fans desire. This means [the fan] gets to judge us on our work each step of the way, and we plan on delivering that goal in a big way.

It would appear otherwise dnd.


There's a difference between "Keep doing what you're doing" or "I didn't like xxx" and a detailed marketing plan.  Also, in the official forums there are typically clauses in the terms of use that give SEGA the rights to whatever is posted.  That way, SEGA can view whatever is posted without fear of a lawsuit.  That's how Wizards of the Coast gets away with holding fake card contests on their forums, technically speaking every fan-made card posted on that site is owned by Hasbro to do with as they see fit.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on February 04, 2010, 10:11:10 pm
Sonic Team better not get all smart and try to reinvent the wheel again. :(
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 05, 2010, 05:51:41 am
Sonic would be more interesting if they cut the damn attitude.

If I wanted to play a game where the main character is all cool and whatnot I'd play No More Heroes or something. The old 2d sonics I played when i was a kid didn't have all this irrelevant characterisation.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on February 05, 2010, 08:20:32 am
I think the attitude argument may have gone out the window with "Sega does what Nintendont"... :(
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Celdur on February 05, 2010, 08:50:36 am
i think its just the whole random stuff they cram in.
i bet there is one guy in team sonic that goes 'YKNOW WHAT WOULD BE COOL?!' every time they make a game
and so you get sonic with a sword, sonic as a werewolf, a crapton of retarded friends etc.

but whatever, i dont even like the origonal sonic games. :P
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Inkling on February 05, 2010, 09:19:30 am
Not to skip over all that stuff from the last two pages, but... yeah I'm going to do exactly that.

So, Sonic 3 with better graphics, as an episodic download.  Yawn.
I'll pretend you didn't say that so we can continue to be friends, Ink. >:(

Don't get me wrong, the original sonic games back in the day were awesome and the envy of nintendo owners like me.  Maybe it's just that I wasn't following this "project needlemouse" thing at all, but from the hype I thought it had, I was expecting something more original than a retro remake.  But if that's what this was about all along, that's great for the fans.

The difference in my mind between Sonic and Mario is that the Mario franchise has been cranking out new, original and very successful games for a long time and only recently started doing retro games which have also been successful.  On the other hand, I have the impression that pretty much all 3D sonic games have been a general dissapointment, which may be in part why people want a retro game so much.  I'm not the biggest sonic fan and I may be getting some of this wrong, but that's my two cents.

Also, I don't buy DLC games that often.  Again, that's just me.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on February 05, 2010, 04:32:25 pm
Well of course Nintendo has always been cranking out good games for Mario nearly all of the time. But it's much more significant when a seemingly dead and exhausted franchise gets a much needed and much improved installment.

It's still too early to judge, but when a game can take a huge leap at reviving the franchise, it's definitely worth more to get excited about than a game that is consistently good. And that is true progress. Kinda like the prodigal son.

But we'll wait and see.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: a14gt on February 06, 2010, 02:34:12 pm
In my opinion nothing really kills the sonic franchise like story. Sonic can come up with good gameplay ideas when it makes a 3d game (of course a number of them were pretty crummy) so i'm not entirely sure what the big deal in making a 2d game outside the odd idea that the game will be less likely to fail. Also as far as characters go I don't really detest them but and I would have liked to atleast have tails and knucles playable in Sonic IV like it was in sonic 3. Like I said story is what kills sonic, I think the game should have the minimal amount of story elements again like in sonic 3 where we were given a simple goal and left to move towards it with no major story interruptions till the very end and I'm including dialogue so they don' say anything stupid. Aside from the lack of originality I'm still happy about going back to sonic 3 or sonic 1 since only sonic is playable. As long as they don' add anything  out there and try to make some sense with whatever plot they are going for I'm happy.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Inkling on February 06, 2010, 04:30:18 pm
Well of course Nintendo has always been cranking out good games for Mario nearly all of the time. But it's much more significant when a seemingly dead and exhausted franchise gets a much needed and much improved installment.

It's still too early to judge, but when a game can take a huge leap at reviving the franchise, it's definitely worth more to get excited about than a game that is consistently good. And that is true progress. Kinda like the prodigal son.

But we'll wait and see.

That's just it, I don't see how a slightly improved Sonic 3 with better graphics is a huge leap forward for the franchise.  But like you said, it's too early to call.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on February 06, 2010, 04:41:53 pm
Well of course Nintendo has always been cranking out good games for Mario nearly all of the time. But it's much more significant when a seemingly dead and exhausted franchise gets a much needed and much improved installment.

It's still too early to judge, but when a game can take a huge leap at reviving the franchise, it's definitely worth more to get excited about than a game that is consistently good. And that is true progress. Kinda like the prodigal son.

But we'll wait and see.

That's just it, I don't see how a slightly improved Sonic 3 with better graphics is a huge leap forward for the franchise.  But like you said, it's too early to call.

No, you're comparing how Sonic 4 will be better than Sonic 3.

The kind of progress I'm talking about is how Sonic 4 should be as good as Sonic 3. I don't expect it to exceed that much. But I do expect it to exceed the quality of the current crap that has been released since then.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Krakow Sam on February 07, 2010, 05:23:17 am
Its Repost Sunday!

(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n125/Krakowsam/1219784882919by0.png)
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Gnoll on February 07, 2010, 12:45:36 pm
LOL At Sonic's face in that last panel.
He's charging his lazar...
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on February 07, 2010, 05:47:48 pm
He's kinda missing an eye...
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on February 10, 2010, 12:00:13 pm
OCRemix wants to compose the Sonic 4 soundtrack! (http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27658)

They've done it before with the SF2HD Remix, I think OCR can sway SEGA into saying yes.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Future Neoadept on February 15, 2010, 08:54:56 am
Future generations will look back on Sonic as the lead in the water pipes that slowly drove the Romans mad.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on February 16, 2010, 02:24:47 pm
There's been a leak! Check out some gameplay and screen shots! (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177976)

Casino Street Zone, bitches! :D
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on February 16, 2010, 02:43:11 pm
I was a bit disappointed that there was only 5 stages on that build. But each level has 3 acts and a boss stage. So I hope there's a bit of variation.

What bothers me the most is that his momentum doesn't die like it used to when he's standing on a slope. Toward the end of that video, it seemed he had no trouble walking on a 90 degree slope. I hope they fix that.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Inkling on February 16, 2010, 03:11:07 pm
Looks like they've reached Donkey Kong 2 level graphics.  Yay?
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Yokto on February 16, 2010, 03:12:57 pm
Is it me or does the game seem a bit slower then the older games?
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on February 16, 2010, 03:13:35 pm
It does!

Though to be honest, the guy playing seems to be not that great.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on February 17, 2010, 11:18:08 pm
In the hopes that SEGA says yes to OCR, I will be submitting one of my old songs, revamped with a few Genesis samples I ripped.

http://www.tindeck.com/listen/gcho (http://www.tindeck.com/listen/gcho)
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on February 18, 2010, 02:11:42 am
Not bad, really has that sonic feel to it too.  I could picture that in-game.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on February 23, 2010, 05:41:08 pm
Let's deviate from the current discussion of Sonic 4 to another game.

I've only heard positive things about All-Star Racing. A few nitpicks about the similarity to Mario Kart, but generally a fun game as expressed by a lot of gaming sites. And there is even the inclusion of Banjo-Kazooie in the 360 version and Miis in the Wii version. (As to why not Mario, it's obvious he already is in his own racing game) People seem to enjoy it though, so I'm curious as to pick up a copy myself. I played the demo and my only complaint is the corny and obnoxious announcer who talks to much during the race. Though I learned to stop paying attention too him after playing it for a while, the game is pretty similar to Mario Kart. Not that it should be a bad thing. Generally a lot of kart racer clones tend to suck. But this is an exception. Though if you already own a Wii and Mario Kart, you can probably pass on having another racing game to your collection. But those of you without a Wii or Mario Kart, this is a good alternative. Might be worth picking up.

There's my first impression.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Krakow Sam on March 20, 2010, 07:06:14 pm
I've never been a sonic the hedgehog fan, but I just saw some screenshots of the new game they're working on and I'm actually sort of looking forward to it. They really revamped the graphics and apparently they are using the havok engine.

Anyway screens are here (too big to link directly)  (http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n125/Krakowsam/1179900769723.jpg)
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on March 20, 2010, 07:08:57 pm
That made my balls tickle.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on March 27, 2010, 09:26:31 pm
Now I really detest the song SEGA made for Splash Hill. Especially after listening to this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIwQQGOGcCQ
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on March 29, 2010, 12:07:14 am
GAH!!!!  My head won't stop involuntarily bobbing!!!
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: vonboy on April 10, 2010, 04:37:50 pm
it's still a million times better than say the sonic heroes song, or the secret rings main theme.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Gnoll on April 10, 2010, 05:40:34 pm
Cool song, bro. No, that was not sarcasm.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Gauphastus on October 21, 2010, 02:01:11 am
Since this video was just posted today (though I know there were others, I don't think they were posted in here), I'll go ahead and share.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHKD14XfOe8

Fan made.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Krakow Sam on October 21, 2010, 03:30:20 am
I heard Sonic ran so fast he went around the world and ran up his own butt and now he's stuck in a recursive poop-loop.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on October 21, 2010, 07:12:03 am
The demo came out yesterday and it's not too shabby. Nothing great, either.

Still better than Sonic 4.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Gauphastus on October 21, 2010, 10:02:24 am
Still feels kinda slow, eh?
The thing looks nice, visually, but that's about all you get.

Though this seems to be enough for some. Eh.
Pretty cool though. I'm surprised it hasn't been given a cease and desist.

I heard Sonic ran so fast he went around the world and ran up his own butt and now he's stuck in a recursive poop-loop.

Whaaaaaaat
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on November 09, 2010, 01:23:16 pm
Dammit. Sonic Colors isn't that good.

Can we all agree that Sonic Team needs to be fired now?
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Celdur on November 11, 2010, 04:05:07 pm
no pat, there is still hope

just check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lFrHx_s_UY

looks like so much fun :O
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: eropS on November 11, 2010, 04:32:16 pm
Heard it sucked. (Shocker)
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Krakow Sam on November 11, 2010, 05:17:54 pm
*Half-hearted suggestion that SEGA take sonic out behind the woodshed and give him both barrels*
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on November 11, 2010, 05:41:45 pm
Or better yet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94Hn1XhyWB0

Let these guys make the next Sonic. Yeah, Fan Remix wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but it was a hell of a lot better than Sonic 4. Sonic is not the problem. Sonic Team is.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Krakow Sam on November 12, 2010, 04:51:39 am
See. I understand where you're coming from, but haven't the people making these reboots and whatnot been just as responsible for the stagnation of the franchise as anyone else.

You can point to someone who does a decent job of recreating a Green Hill zone or whatever, but its the same exact thing as everyone was playing twenty years ago. If I wanted to play original style sonic I'd buy the DS megapack with all the original games on it.

Even Mario can barely get away with that. New Super Mario Bros for the DS was pretty boring to me considering I've already played Mario World, Yoshi's Island and the rest).

So basically Sonic is being torn apart by two wild horses. Sonic Team is constantly pushing for some sort of stupid 'innovation' and new directions to run the franchise into the ground in, and the fans seem to always want a "back to the roots" bare-bones type thing which everyone seems to be a bit sick of really.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: BlagStar on November 12, 2010, 06:51:23 am
I think the only hope now is to turn Sonic the Hedgehog into a poor TF2 ripoff series with everyone running around the map at 120 mph.

Broh yeah.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on November 12, 2010, 07:47:05 am
That's just stupid Blag.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on November 12, 2010, 10:41:52 am
I don't agree with you at all Sam. Sorry.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Krakow Sam on November 12, 2010, 11:13:30 am
Well, I'm more of an outsider since I was never much of a sonic fan (though i did play some of the old games).

But then, if anything the Sonic franchise needs to make some converts if its going to regain its former glory.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on April 07, 2011, 11:11:10 pm
So apparently it's Sonic's 20th birthday. And they just released this little teaser video. And a URL registration of "Sonic Generations"

Also, I hereby ban Sam to express any of his opinions about any of this until further notice. We're done here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbGEzP01tkM
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Krakow Sam on April 08, 2011, 01:03:49 am
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n125/Krakowsam/sonsuck.png)
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Celdur on April 08, 2011, 03:09:03 am
i love this topic

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q169/Celdur/sonic.gif?t=1302257325)
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on April 08, 2011, 08:41:06 am
Haha, I knew it wouldn't work.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Krakow Sam on April 08, 2011, 10:01:03 am
A valiant effort Gec.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on April 08, 2011, 02:19:41 pm
The hell was that video I just watched? :|
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Ultimatum on April 08, 2011, 03:19:43 pm
No idea Pat, something about  Saga's rodent mascot.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Gungnir on April 08, 2011, 05:11:32 pm
So today I found out that these things exist...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_hedgehog
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Celdur on April 13, 2011, 09:05:46 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VonhgARLb5U

UH OH
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on April 13, 2011, 10:40:18 am
So true.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Krakow Sam on April 13, 2011, 01:47:24 pm
But he's rounder!
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on April 13, 2011, 03:05:50 pm
O my dod you guys! Did you see their new character slushie flavor? It is awesome!
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Krakow Sam on April 13, 2011, 03:07:46 pm
Is the new character a cocky weasel?
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Celdur on May 02, 2011, 09:32:47 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PQc_S-FPi0

i will never get tired of doing this
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: gec05 on May 16, 2011, 09:24:18 am
Haha, what the heck. (http://twitpic.com/4ygxou/full)
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on June 04, 2011, 06:55:53 am
For some reason, I saw that and all I can think of is this.
(http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp309/dndfreak/e1135016-a1b1-4aa5-8127-6ca1bc4693c9.jpg)
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Ultimatum on June 04, 2011, 07:15:01 am
Motivational posters so old meme,get with the times geez.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: dndfreak on June 04, 2011, 09:54:45 am
I didn't take the time to find the image by itself, geez.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: Ultimatum on June 04, 2011, 09:59:19 am
Lazy.
Title: Re: The Hedgehog Topic
Post by: PatMan33 on August 27, 2011, 08:31:01 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nDRsjiXiMo

Don't like to me and say you liked this game. Just don't.