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Will Wright's Spore => Spore: General => Topic started by: DarkDragon on December 12, 2008, 02:51:32 am

Title: The game just got worse
Post by: DarkDragon on December 12, 2008, 02:51:32 am
So, in my quest to make the game better I started working on the Asymmetry mod for version 1.3. Was I surprised (or not), when it didn't work. Basically changing the symmetry variables of the files no longer works, it makes the body of the creature disappear. Now why would Maxis change this? It wasn't causing any problems and it made the game better so my question is: WHY? >:(
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: Blulightning on December 12, 2008, 03:11:05 am
Why?
Probably to make more cash off another too-soon expansion pack that allows asymmetry.

You can't just let people go around doing something for free, if you can make money off of it.
Right, Maxis? :-\
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: smjjames on December 12, 2008, 07:24:38 am
It's entirely possible that they didn't do it on purpose. Both of you (Bluelightning and DarkDragon) know programming, right? Then I'm sure you realize that sometimes a new bit of code will affect an old bit of code or disable something that you didn't realize changed, like assymmetry.

I don't know much about coding, but that just makes sense to me.

Given how complex the coding must be for Spore, it's possible.

If it IS intentional however, they'd better have a valid reason for it.
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: Null on December 12, 2008, 07:53:52 am
Is this isolated to a few people? I have not heard anything on this before and 1.3 has been out for awhile. Surly we would have heard a bunch of people screaming by now if so?
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: RmB303 on December 12, 2008, 10:49:47 am
You can't just let people go around doing something for free, if you can make money off of it.
Right, EA ? :-\

Fixed that for you ;-)
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: Plank of Wood on December 12, 2008, 02:53:19 pm
You can't just let people go around doing something for free, if you can make money off of it.
Right, The Reccession ? :-\

Fixed that for you ;-)

Bloody hell, you're all getting it wrong!
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: Beatnuki on December 12, 2008, 03:06:22 pm
You can't just let people go around doing something for free, if you can make money off of it.
Right, The Reccession ? :-\

Fixed that for you ;-)

Bloody hell, you're all getting it wrong!

Hehe, I love how The Recession is to blame for everything nowadays. It probably IS The Recession though. It murdered Woolworths!  :o

Either way though, asymmetry has always made for interesting critters. I hope you clever modding types can find a way around it, or decode any new code they may have put in in order to find a new method for producing asymmetry.
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: mrmango786 on December 12, 2008, 05:24:37 pm
Agreed, it's EA and not Maxis if it is on purpose.
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: Skyward on December 12, 2008, 05:49:12 pm
*reads thread title*

"IMPOSSIBLE!"

Reads actual thread*

"I stand corrected..."
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: Null on December 12, 2008, 06:01:03 pm
If this turns out to be a widespread thing (I cannot check to see if it works or not myself right now) it may be related to the fact that using the asymmetry mod allows you to share things past the complexity limit. That would be the only reason I can think of why they would remove it. Because I know they have featured creatures using the asymmetry mod before so that would suggest they do not have a problem with asymmetry itself.
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: Darth Grievi on December 12, 2008, 06:02:46 pm
I don't think this is universal.

I have patched to v1.3, and I am still able to use an asymetry mod with some success. I don't have C&C yet, though, which might be why.
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: DarkDragon on December 13, 2008, 01:11:37 am
I don't think this is universal.

I have patched to v1.3, and I am still able to use an asymetry mod with some success. I don't have C&C yet, though, which might be why.

You're using the one for the old version, the files of the new version (1.3) have new settings (probably because of the new limbs and stuff) and as soon as I change the "true" to "false" on the asymmetry parameter it no longer shows the creature body in-game.
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: Parkaboy on December 13, 2008, 04:20:50 am
Sell it as "Invisible Body Mod" then!
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: MisterBibs on December 13, 2008, 07:40:03 am
This is why, in any game, you don't base things off an exploit or unintended effect.
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: void on December 13, 2008, 08:11:30 am
DarkDragon, I looked into this to make sure you aren't hitting a bug in SporeMaster 2, and It Works For Me.  Unpacking the 11/10/2008 Spore_Game.package, searching for "symmetry", modifying editor_setup~/creatureeditorsetup.prop.xml to <bool name="editorUseSymmetry">false</bool> and packing yields an apparently functional creature asymmetry mod, and nothing disappears.  Nor do I see any change in this file between the august and november game packages.  Is it possible something else in your mod (or some other mod you have installed) is the problem?  Can you post a package exhibiting the problem somewhere? (I suggest the Mod Discussion forum at sporemods.org, which allows attachments)
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: DarkDragon on December 13, 2008, 10:49:54 am
DarkDragon, I looked into this to make sure you aren't hitting a bug in SporeMaster 2, and It Works For Me.  Unpacking the 11/10/2008 Spore_Game.package, searching for "symmetry", modifying editor_setup~/creatureeditorsetup.prop.xml to <bool name="editorUseSymmetry">false</bool> and packing yields an apparently functional creature asymmetry mod, and nothing disappears.  Nor do I see any change in this file between the august and november game packages.  Is it possible something else in your mod (or some other mod you have installed) is the problem?  Can you post a package exhibiting the problem somewhere? (I suggest the Mod Discussion forum at sporemods.org, which allows attachments)

I tested it with no other mods, I compared the files and you're right, there are no extra lines.

I'm using SporeMaster 1.0 beta though, didn't know 2.0 was out already. Gonna download it and then try it again.

EDIT: Tried it again, same problem. I think it's because of the Cute&Creepy pack.
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: Lucky on December 15, 2008, 09:58:30 am
I did a little checking around, and it sounds like this was unintentional.  Sorry for any inconvenience it is causing for you guys.

-caryl
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: DarkDragon on December 15, 2008, 10:52:42 am
I did a little checking around, and it sounds like this was unintentional.  Sorry for any inconvenience it is causing for you guys.

-caryl

Thanks for the heads up  ;D
Maybe, just maybe (I hope) you guys could fix it on the next patch and (again I hope) add a button in-game for it. At least for the creature editor.  ::)
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: vonboy on December 15, 2008, 01:19:43 pm
ya, a button to turn symmetry on and off in-game would be a great idea for a patch *hint* *hint*  ;)
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: Hydromancerx on December 17, 2008, 12:46:59 am
Glad to see you got an answer DarkDragon. :D
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: Slife on December 17, 2008, 02:21:14 am
I don't think this is universal.

I have patched to v1.3, and I am still able to use an asymetry mod with some success. I don't have C&C yet, though, which might be why.

You're using the one for the old version, the files of the new version (1.3) have new settings (probably because of the new limbs and stuff) and as soon as I change the "true" to "false" on the asymmetry parameter it no longer shows the creature body in-game.
You can always go back to editing creatures the old school way - in hex!
Quote from: A leg
    <blockref>
      <blockid>0x40626000, 0xf8de5c52</blockid>
      <transform>
        <basemusclescale>0.892807</basemusclescale>
        <scale>1</scale>
        <position>-0.520817,-0.0804159,1.523056</position>
        <triangledirection>0.898876,0.436141,-0.0424569</triangledirection>
        <trianglepickorigin>0,0,0</trianglepickorigin>
        <orientation>
          <row0>0.273941,-0.961685,0.0108020</row0>
          <row1>0.961046,0.273297,-0.0412070</row1>
          <row2>0.0366760,0.0216697,0.999092</row2>
        </orientation>
        <userorientation>
          <userorientation_row0>0.852868,0.150383,-0.5</userorientation_row0>
          <userorientation_row1>-0.173647,0.984807,0</userorientation_row1>
          <userorientation_row2>0.492403,0.0868239,0.866025</userorientation_row2>
        </userorientation>
      </transform>
      <snapped>true</snapped>
      <symmetric>9</symmetric>
Just change what's inside the symmetric tags and you're moderately good to go.


Oh, and Lucky, was it intentional that the game stores creature data as raw xml in pollination.package, or is it a mistake?
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: Blulightning on December 18, 2008, 03:25:34 am
It's entirely possible that they didn't do it on purpose. Both of you (Bluelightning and DarkDragon) know programming, right? Then I'm sure you realize that sometimes a new bit of code will affect an old bit of code or disable something that you didn't realize changed, like assymmetry.

I don't know much about coding, but that just makes sense to me.

Given how complex the coding must be for Spore, it's possible.

If it IS intentional however, they'd better have a valid reason for it.

Yeah, what you said is 100% correct. Changing bits of code very often has unknown impacts on other code.
Programmers have to extensively test all changes made to a system before letting something go live.

What I said was mostly out of anger and frustration towards Maxis/EA. Which I still think is entirely warranted.

Anyone else notice no patches have been released since the C&C pack to fix the remaining problems?
I seriously think that now all they care about is new customers and fresh cash. :-\

I'm hoping that it just means a BIG patch is coming, and not just another rip-off expansion scam.... :'(
Title: Re: The game just got worse
Post by: smjjames on December 18, 2008, 05:31:39 am
The C&C hasn't caused any major problems that I'm aware of. The only major problem is the holoscout issue, which is more like highly annoying than game-breaking and is not something essential to the workings of the game, although the bug is affecting the workings of the game, it's reverseable.

After doing that small patch thing, it's going to have to be a huge patch. They could be working on making sure the patch doesn't cause any further issues and investigating the C&C issues.

I would REALLY like an answer on the holoscout thing, I've PMed Lucky at least twice (not in one week) and I have PMed Maxispuzzle. Mainly so that I know they are aware of the problem and working on it.