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Will Wright's Spore => Spore: General => Topic started by: TFGoose on September 10, 2008, 03:24:16 pm

Title: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: TFGoose on September 10, 2008, 03:24:16 pm
Okay, after a few solid days of playing Spore (mostly in the space stage with my Shrublings), I have a serious question.  Why oh why should I attempt to expand beyond 10 or so star systems? 

Does the size of my empire influence how much I'm attacked?   Yes, but in the wrong direction. 

Do I get more ships from expanding?  Nope.  

Do I get more spice?   Not really.  Once you have a couple planets churning out record numbers of pink and purple spice you really don't need anything else.  Additional planets and colonies become superfluous.

So why do I do it?  It seems to me that the only reward I get for actively expanding beyond the point where I have a self-sustaining, profitable economy is more frequent pirate attacks and bio-disasters.  It would be different if by arming my colonies to the teeth with fully defended cities, uber turrents and both bio protection devices that I could fend off these nuisances without my personal attention.  But as we all know, even the most heavily-defended colony in your empire will lose the fight if you don't personally show up to supervise the action.  All expansions seems to do is make sure that I will definitely, positively be called back to one of those colonies all the more often, even if only to watch my uber turret take them all down while I make another pepperoni and cheese cracker.

So again, where's the motivation?  At this point, the only reason I'm doing it is because that's what I envisioned I would do from the day I heard about this game at GDC '05.  Part of the fun lies in taking over planet after planet, system after system, on my way to the center of the galaxy.  Indeed, the game seems somewhat built on the idea that you should try to expand (there are a number of 'story' missions to that effect after all), yet at the same time I feel as though I'm being punished for traveling that path.

Does anyone else understand what I mean here or am I just way off base?

--TFGoose
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Yannick on September 10, 2008, 03:25:27 pm
To get badges to get new stuff really...
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: spiritofcat on September 10, 2008, 10:35:52 pm
You don't have to expand. There's no stage beyond space stage that you are driven towards.
There's the mystery of the Grox and the middle of the galaxy, but if you don't care about them then don't bother to expand.

In fact, why should you play the space stage at all?
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Doomsday on September 10, 2008, 10:57:12 pm
In fact, why should you play the space stage at all?

I don't... lol. I get to space.. play about 2 or 3 hours of Space and go back to cell and start over.

I find the whole process of Cell to Space more fun right now.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: spiritofcat on September 10, 2008, 11:11:56 pm
In fact, why should you play the space stage at all?

I don't... lol. I get to space.. play about 2 or 3 hours of Space and go back to cell and start over.

I find the whole process of Cell to Space more fun right now.
Exactly! It's a very free-form game. You can choose how you want to play. you don't have to do any particular thing.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Necrox on September 11, 2008, 03:44:22 am
I agree with Goose.

There is no incentive to expand, only the opposite. The only benefit I could POSSIBLY see of having more than a handful, would be that enemies would have a harder time crippling you. Later in the game that's not really an issue though (at least for me).

I would really like it if there was some sort of incentive to expand, instead of just... more problems, more time waste, and more duplicate micro management.

Ideas to combat this problem could be some of the following (not all at once):
-Give each colony a slow and small but steady $ income (not spice, direct funds).
-Give each colony a way of defending themselves against raids.
-Add extra health to your ufo per system, planet or colony you own.
-Make hostile AI's level of agression towards you based on your number of colonies vs. theirs.
-Give a synergy bonus so for example an extra red spice planet adds +1 to your ship's or other red spice planets' storage capacity etc.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Bama on September 11, 2008, 03:46:31 am
I'm currently expanding in a straight line so it's easier to get back  ;D
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: macweirdo42 on September 11, 2008, 04:56:35 am
Because there's no feeling quite like watching your enemies beg for mercy before you crush them.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Necrox on September 11, 2008, 05:07:43 am
Because there's no feeling quite like watching your enemies beg for mercy before you crush them.

You can do that without expanding.
There is no power gain by expanding beyond a handful of systems or two, so you have a steady flow of high quality spice.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: econundrum on September 11, 2008, 05:08:32 am
I also find this to be a big problem in the Space phase, I would suggest they create devices to enable planets to properly defend themselves and just make them expensive.

e.g. Viral inhibitor to stop eco-disasters and planet patrol ships that intercept and fleet from a smaller empire without you having to interfere.

As it stands a large empire is just too much trouble to defend and I quickly find myself going back to cell and starting over.

Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Spore-addict on September 11, 2008, 05:10:15 am
12 planets seems to make full spice production in every colour each 5 min. possible.

I really wanted spore to have other routes to go like using extortion, demanding tribute and other ways of making the evil approach more viable.

Actually there is a device that helps keeping eco trouble down. Has not tried it much yet if it works. I just let some planets go into trouble so I can get that badge faster...

But as it stands now we are all going to be spice miners....BIG TIME.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: rustybrazenfire on September 11, 2008, 05:33:42 am
I've been taking my time and slowly expanding my empire, usually building up every planet in every system to the fullest... especially when I have 3 different types of spice in a single system.  So I only have 5 systems, sure, but about 15 planets.  So far the rate of raids and/or eco disasters is one every 7-10 minutes, sometimes longer.

Question - are you filling out the planets in your systems or are you only colonizing one or two planets in each?

I can't wait until I have 10 systems to see if I have these problems, because I too wanted to simply continue expanding my empire as far as it can go.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Ondaderthad on September 11, 2008, 07:10:17 am
I expand by starting lots of new games at different stages.

(http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn400/Ondaderthad/galaxy-12sep.jpg)

Then when I play some of them in space stage i will hopefully encounter some of my other races.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: TFGoose on September 11, 2008, 08:13:18 am
To get badges to get new stuff really...

Well, yes that's certainly a reason.  But I was speaking more on the lines of "once I have all the tools"....

You don't have to expand. There's no stage beyond space stage that you are driven towards.
There's the mystery of the Grox and the middle of the galaxy, but if you don't care about them then don't bother to expand.

In fact, why should you play the space stage at all?

LOL, a valid point.  No, we don't have to expand, but as I said the game seems to encourage it.  Indeed there are a few missions where you are given direct orders to do so "for the good of the empire".  Expansion is (at least to some degree) necessary in the early going.  You have to get some planets with each kind of spice and really juice up the production.  My goal was to have several planets churning out each kind of spice so I could basically make a run every 5 minutes or so and offload 99 of each of them.  With 15 systems colonized, I've reached that goal.  I topped 75 million Sporebucks last night and I still have a cargo hold overflowing with spice.

I know that reaching the center of the universe is a goal, as is meeting and (perhaps) defeating the Grox.  But I suppose my real question is this:  "Does expansion help or hinder those goals?"  From a logical standpoint, I would assume that it should help.  Realistically speaking (I know, just go with it), the larger an empire is, the more powerful they should be.  But that isn't the case in Spore, or at least I don't see how it is.  Instead, the reward for growing larger and larger is an ever-accelerating landslide of repetitive problems.  And I don't think that should be the case.

I guess this is really just a gripe more than anything else.  To me, expanding, getting bigger, and "owning" more of the universe should be a positive thing.  I shouldn't feel as though I'm going to be punished for daring to place yet another colony.  It's like the pirates are just sitting there licking their chops every time I do it.  "OMG he gave us another one to raid every 10 minutes.  LOL, what a douche."

All that said....


...

Ideas to combat this problem could be some of the following (not all at once):
-Give each colony a slow and small but steady $ income (not spice, direct funds).
-Give each colony a way of defending themselves against raids.
-Add extra health to your ufo per system, planet or colony you own.
-Make hostile AI's level of agression towards you based on your number of colonies vs. theirs.
-Give a synergy bonus so for example an extra red spice planet adds +1 to your ship's or other red spice planets' storage capacity etc.

These are good ideas, especially the second and fourth points.  If my colonies had a way to mostly deal with pirate raids and low-level invasions on their own (if properly equipped by me of course), then expanding could be a lot more fun.  But there's no way I'm trying that now, as I would be doing nothing but babysitting all those colonies from random attack #8427.  There's a way to reduce the frequency of bio disasters, so why can't turrets or something do the same for pirate attacks?  For that matter, why doesn't an uber turret own the entire invasion force when I'm not there the same way that it does once I float down into the atmosphere?

This all seems fixable, so this is me asking... Please, fix it.

--TFGoose
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: munchkin5 on September 11, 2008, 08:30:11 am
i'm hoping that maxis will realise that having to defend each planet personally, no matter what you place there, and fix this problem very soon in a patch.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Necrox on September 11, 2008, 08:37:34 am
Yeah. It seems currently that the global defence turet is nothing more than a bug. Expensive and don't do squat - I don't need it when I'm there anyway.

I think it's a great idea to make a feature that auto-protects your planet very expensive (even up the price by a factor of 2 or 3)... as long as it does the bloody job.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: TDKenyon on September 11, 2008, 08:40:46 am
I don't understand why you can't just ignore a planet in trouble. I have never lost a single colony, and I've been away from my home systems for many hours. I've been hanging out at the edge of Grox territory and I get Grox attacks all the time, but I still have never lots a city, let alone an entire colony. Maybe I've lost a few buildings (certainly I lost a few towards the beginning before I could afford max turrets on all cities), but so what? You just go and repair them when you make a spice run. Pop in each planet and mouse-over the city icon, see if their production, happiness, and armor are the same and, if not, fix the problems.

This is also all according to my easy game. I'm still on my first game, I don't like to start over until I'm really done. The Grox shall fall!
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: econundrum on September 11, 2008, 08:51:46 am
Yeah. It seems currently that the global defence turet is nothing more than a bug. Expensive and don't do squat - I don't need it when I'm there anyway.

I think it's a great idea to make a feature that auto-protects your planet very expensive (even up the price by a factor of 2 or 3)... as long as it does the bloody job.

I totally agree you want it to cost a great deal since it allows you to tie of having to defend that planet in the main but it's vital to allowing large empires.

I hope maxis don't try to bundle this essential fix to broken game mechanics in an exspansion because by then a lot of peoples interest in the space game will have been lost. I wonder how they missed this in play testing.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: TFGoose on September 11, 2008, 08:52:32 am
Yeah. It seems currently that the global defence turet is nothing more than a bug. Expensive and don't do squat - I don't need it when I'm there anyway.

I think it's a great idea to make a feature that auto-protects your planet very expensive (even up the price by a factor of 2 or 3)... as long as it does the bloody job.

Agreed, it should be expensive.  Heck, you could even make it some kind of on-going expense.  That would provide a money sink that makes buying and selling spice necessary.  Cuz I gotta tell ya, when I can go on a run for 10 minutes and make 10,000,000 Sporebucks right now, money doesn't really concern me that much.  But if I had a recurring 1 or 2 million Sporebucks cost to renew my planetary defenses every hour or something, that would at least make it necessary for me to go on such runs every now and again.

Also, I just want to point out that the Uber Turret does help when fighting things off.  Dealing with invasion forces is infinitely faster when you have one of those little freaks flying around blowing everything up for you.  My only problem is that it doesn't seem to work unless I'm there to watch it happen.

Also...

I don't understand why you can't just ignore a planet in trouble. I have never lost a single colony, and I've been away from my home systems for many hours. I've been hanging out at the edge of Grox territory and I get Grox attacks all the time, but I still have never lots a city, let alone an entire colony. Maybe I've lost a few buildings (certainly I lost a few towards the beginning before I could afford max turrets on all cities), but so what? You just go and repair them when you make a spice run. Pop in each planet and mouse-over the city icon, see if their production, happiness, and armor are the same and, if not, fix the problems.

This is also all according to my easy game. I'm still on my first game, I don't like to start over until I'm really done. The Grox shall fall!

That's another valid point.  I guess you could just sit back and let things happen, dealilng with damage or whatever later.  But I gotta say it would be annoying to have to fly down to every single planet you own just to check on damage, even if it was only every once in a while.  If there was something in the interface that you let you check city status at a glance from orbit then this approach could be an effective band-aid for the problem.  But even then, we're treating the symptom and not the disease.

--TFGoose
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: TDKenyon on September 11, 2008, 02:14:31 pm
I think the change in difficulty in the space stage is necessary. It really knocks you off your high horse when entering. I blew my way through the first 4 stages with not an ounce of competition. Civ stage was a joke; I used no super weapons, got a big fleet, and just wiped all the cities out in one swoop.

The difficulty of Space is a real eye-opening point that I think they were trying to get across: it's freaking space! It's massive, you're not special, you really have to EARN galactic domination. It really is the vast, unruly place space is realistically going to be.

Hell, I know that if true space travel is invented while I'm around, I'm going to be a pirate  ;D.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: TFGoose on September 11, 2008, 02:54:25 pm
I think the change in difficulty in the space stage is necessary. It really knocks you off your high horse when entering. I blew my way through the first 4 stages with not an ounce of competition. Civ stage was a joke; I used no super weapons, got a big fleet, and just wiped all the cities out in one swoop.

The difficulty of Space is a real eye-opening point that I think they were trying to get across: it's freaking space! It's massive, you're not special, you really have to EARN galactic domination. It really is the vast, unruly place space is realistically going to be.

Hell, I know that if true space travel is invented while I'm around, I'm going to be a pirate  ;D.

I understand what you mean TDKenyon, and I agree that space stage should prevent a solid, difficult challenge.  But I don't consider the fact that I have to do everything personally a contribution towards a game's difficulty.  All it does is annoy me and make some of the tools we've been given seem somewhat hollow and unfulfilling.  I know I can ignore pirate raids without much penalty, but they bothered to put them in the game so why not make them work properly?  Why not make the penalty harsh for ignoring them, but also give the player an ability to let their cities automatically handle the problem?  Off the top of my head:


     To Fix Pirate Raids






Again, that's just some stuff that I've come up with today after reading through some threads and thinking about my play experience the last few days.  Putting all of that in still doesn't take away from the difficulty of the game, so long as you still have to deal with other empires, the occasional bio disaster that still occurs even when all of your planets have protectors running, and of course the Grox.  But it would inject a little more meaning into city defense, a money sink for the otherwise overflowing coffers of the advanced player, and overall make the game feel more about exploration and creativity than work.

That was the point from the beginning after all, wasn't it?

--TFGoose
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: beatleian on September 11, 2008, 03:31:47 pm
I'm not sure that a perfectly effective defense system would be any fun either. Not only that, it should be harder to defend a larger empire. Let's say a planetary defense system is a guaranteed win if you return to the system, but only a 90% chance of victory if you stay away. Then the player would have a choice to make: should I risk the low chance that the defense system would fail? Or should I derail what I'm currently doing just to make sure?

I would like to retain the feeling that a larger empire is harder to manage. But it's a fine line between too much of a hassle to be fun and so little of a challenge that there's nothing to manage. Also, that line is bound to be in different places for different people. Some sort of sliding scale would be optimal.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Sub on September 11, 2008, 04:11:01 pm
I'm not sure that a perfectly effective defense system would be any fun either. Not only that, it should be harder to defend a larger empire. Let's say a planetary defense system is a guaranteed win if you return to the system, but only a 90% chance of victory if you stay away. Then the player would have a choice to make: should I risk the low chance that the defense system would fail? Or should I derail what I'm currently doing just to make sure?

I would like to retain the feeling that a larger empire is harder to manage. But it's a fine line between too much of a hassle to be fun and so little of a challenge that there's nothing to manage. Also, that line is bound to be in different places for different people. Some sort of sliding scale would be optimal.

I don't see the problem.  Have two versions - One that costs a reasonable amount of money, but is able to lose x% of the time and one that costs an exorbitant amount of money, but works all of the time.  You'll be spending a lot of money to protect that large empire, thus making it harder to manage. 

Although like the original poster said, why should you want a large empire?  I feel like Spore would be a lot more enjoyable if all colonies automatically transferred Spice to you, but the monetary value of spice was lowered dramatically (Plus, if this were implemented, the amount of spice storage you have should go up dramatically).  This way you won't have to grind around from planet to planet to get the spice and having more colonies will be more beneficial. 

A long range communicator would also be nice. 
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: TDKenyon on September 11, 2008, 05:56:17 pm
I definitely agree about the communicator thing. If I can travel through blackholes, surely there is some better form of communication.

Also, it may just be me, but my colonies do in fact take care of themselves. Has anyone actually let colonies try to protect themselves and assessed the damage, or does everyone just assume they need to help? I assumed I needed to help until I left for a vacation in the center of the galaxy, since then I've just let them defend themselves. I'll make a game in hard, grab lots of cash, and build up some colonies the same way.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: MisterBibs on September 11, 2008, 06:55:14 pm
Quote
These defenses have a maintenance cost (upkeep) that the player must pay in order for them to continue working effectively without his presence.  This cost is paid automatically from the Sporebucks account of the player, deducted every 30 minutes.  Perhaps 100,000 Sporebucks each to keep one planet on fully automated defense every hour (cost debatable)

There are not enough -s in the world to explain how much I consider this opinion "----".

The one thing I love about the Space Stage is that unlike every other 4X game, there's no ongoing costs to anything. I want pirate raids fixed too, but I really hope that there's never going to be any sort of ongoing costs in Space.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: BinaryDigit on September 11, 2008, 07:23:58 pm
Fixing pirate raids is actually fairly easy.  All you need to do is modify one parameter in the spore_game.package file in /ElectronicArts/Spore/Data.  You can also modify the frequency of bio-disasters and enemy attacks.  I modded Spore tonight, and I've thoroughly enjoyed myself since.

Sample parameters from the spore_game.package:

property universeSimulatorPirateRaidFrequency 0x031e7620 float 4800
property universeSimulatorWarAttackFrequency 0x031e94b8 float 1800
property universeSimulatorBiosphereCollapseFrequency 0x044881a3 float 4800

There are literally thousands of such parameters, ranging from UFO weapon range, to city health, to tribute demands.

If you too would like to salvage your spore experience, everything you need to know can be found here:

http://www.cheathappens.com/show_board2.asp?headID=71722&titleID=12378&onPage=1 (http://www.cheathappens.com/show_board2.asp?headID=71722&titleID=12378&onPage=1)
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: spiritofcat on September 11, 2008, 10:13:23 pm
I definitely agree about the communicator thing. If I can travel through blackholes, surely there is some better form of communication.
Yes, communication is a joke, especially when you consider that planets can send signals to you, asking for help, from distant solar systems, and you can reply, but if you want to talk at any other time you have to be in orbit.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Plasmodia on September 11, 2008, 10:23:39 pm
Im not playing space stage for fun. Im using cheats to get to the raw power. Because apparently my species has contacts in another dimension! You think the grox got so far by actually mining spice and fighting?
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Necrox on September 12, 2008, 02:27:37 am
Fixing pirate raids is actually fairly easy.  All you need to do is modify one parameter in the spore_game.package file in /ElectronicArts/Spore/Data.  You can also modify the frequency of bio-disasters and enemy attacks.  I modded Spore tonight, and I've thoroughly enjoyed myself since.

Sample parameters from the spore_game.package:

property universeSimulatorPirateRaidFrequency 0x031e7620 float 4800
property universeSimulatorWarAttackFrequency 0x031e94b8 float 1800
property universeSimulatorBiosphereCollapseFrequency 0x044881a3 float 4800

There are literally thousands of such parameters, ranging from UFO weapon range, to city health, to tribute demands.

If you too would like to salvage your spore experience, everything you need to know can be found here:

http://www.cheathappens.com/show_board2.asp?headID=71722&titleID=12378&onPage=1 (http://www.cheathappens.com/show_board2.asp?headID=71722&titleID=12378&onPage=1)

I've seen those parameters listed before and as I recall the poster found out that they don't actually work. It's a lot more complicated to adjust them than just editing the file, partly because the file is reset when you load the game.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Spore-addict on September 12, 2008, 02:36:52 am
with force you can have a large empire under you.

Just remember star wars where many planets are under darth vaders control. The threat of a "visit" from the armada of ships like the SSD and other star destroyers is enough to make planets stay in control. Although it is under a fear it still works.

A peacefull empire would have other ways of keeping an empire in order like democrazy etc.

So big empires can excist.

But in spore it is different. Many things should have been changed in the space stage..and we are facing the issues now.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: TFGoose on September 12, 2008, 08:04:29 am
Quote
These defenses have a maintenance cost (upkeep) that the player must pay in order for them to continue working effectively without his presence.  This cost is paid automatically from the Sporebucks account of the player, deducted every 30 minutes.  Perhaps 100,000 Sporebucks each to keep one planet on fully automated defense every hour (cost debatable)

There are not enough -s in the world to explain how much I consider this opinion "----".

The one thing I love about the Space Stage is that unlike every other 4X game, there's no ongoing costs to anything. I want pirate raids fixed too, but I really hope that there's never going to be any sort of ongoing costs in Space.

Fair enough.  It's just a thought, and I'm sure there are other methods for doing this.  But seriously, it's not as if money isn't ridiculously easy to come by once you have your spice production going strong.  I can make 10 million in about fifteen minutes just from the planets in my home star system.  If I leave the system and go to two of my other stars, that figure jumps to 25 million.  I'm buying discounted anti-matter bombs and planet busters like they're goin' outta style, and I'm still maxed out on money.  So I don't think putting a mechanism for a money sink into the game is that horrid of an idea (though I admit I'd want the cap for max Sporebucks raised).

--TFGoose
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Yuu on September 12, 2008, 08:14:04 am
Second that. The cap is pretty low once you consider the cost of things and want to go all out just like in SC4 or other Maxis games.

As for me, I really don't have a reason to expand my empire. I'm just doing it so I could that "galactic empire" feeling once I finally spread my empire throughout the entire galaxy. 8)

Im not playing space stage for fun. Im using cheats to get to the raw power. Because apparently my species has contacts in another dimension! You think the grox got so far by actually mining spice and fighting?

They got some help from Will himself. ;)

And yeah, when I use cheats in Spore or any other Maxis game for that matter, I tend to see it as if my race/civ/sims are just way more advanced and/or powerful compared to everyone else. ;) :)
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Murali on September 12, 2008, 01:43:58 pm
Just remember star wars where many planets are under darth vaders control. The threat of a "visit" from the armada of ships like the SSD and other star destroyers is enough to make planets stay in control. Although it is under a fear it still works.

It's a good thing there wasn't a rebel group of some sort that was able to strategically use its small numbers effectively against a hulking bueacratic empire to bring about its destruction, then.
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: TFGoose on September 12, 2008, 01:50:03 pm
Just remember star wars where many planets are under darth vaders control. The threat of a "visit" from the armada of ships like the SSD and other star destroyers is enough to make planets stay in control. Although it is under a fear it still works.

It's a good thing there wasn't a rebel group of some sort that was able to strategically use its small numbers effectively against a hulking bueacratic empire to bring about its destruction, then.

Whew, good point!  Probably fortunate as well that they didn't design their massive superweapon with an easily exploitable weak point that would destroy the entire structure...

... twice.

--TFGoose
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Miclee on September 12, 2008, 01:54:31 pm
My goal, once I reach the center, is to colonize atleast 1000 systems, all atleast on a T1 planet with enhanced colonies. :D
Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Pinstar on September 12, 2008, 02:32:47 pm
There are a few things that raw numbers of systems would give you in a 4X game that are lacking in Spore.

I turn to, IMHO, the greatest 4x space game ever made: Master of Orion 2

In MOO2, every colony would produce food, minerals and science. How much of each would depend on technologies, how you assigned workers, buildings, etc.

Excess food could be shiped to other planets that could not produce any themselves, allowing them to exist and even flourish on an otherwise hostile world.

Excess minerals could be turned either into money, or used to build up a fleet of space ships

Science from all the worlds was pooled and applied twords whatever technology you were working twords.

In almost every case, having more worlds was better, as you got more food/minerals/science to use for your empire as a whole.


Spore lacks many of the things that specifically make many colonies worth it.

You cannot build a fleet of ships
There is no research, all your new toys are unlocked with badges
There is no food. While you can see 'food' at work by seeing T3 colonies supporting more people than T1, you can't use a bread basket T3 colony to help maintian a high population on a T0, for example.

Lastly, you have the factor of the number of colonies directly increasing babysitting duties.


All in all, no reward for large empires at all.

Title: Re: Why should I expand? ... seriously
Post by: Hydromancerx on September 14, 2008, 06:11:09 am
i'm hoping that maxis will realise that having to defend each planet personally, no matter what you place there, and fix this problem very soon in a patch.

Yeah they seriously need to expand out a few more. Its seems that each phase expand out more with more things automated for you.

Cell = Alone Eat

Creature = Group Eats/Attack/Socializes with you

Tribe = Individual and group but will do task on their own after being told to rather than drivng them around.

Civ = No need to feed but collect space now and arrange city buildings and then automated vehciles ocne told what to do. Also the citizens no longer need control.

Space = No more controlling vehicles (except for spaceship), still arranging buildings but controls the planets ecosystems and stuff. Tehen you need to defend and stuff.

What i would like to see beyond would have auto plop colony where the style of building and echiles were already chosen based on your civs choice.

Also once the colony is there it would auto defend itself against minor threats such as pirates.

By this level you would be basically taking over or buying other systems. Possible even  mass colonizing via auto terraform and colony tools.

In addition new controls could open up such as making stars and planets or creating wormholes from stars. And of course the ability to travel to other galaxies either by supper massive black hole in the center of the galaxy or an intergalactic drive.

Basiclly you would be more god-like at this phase and all other phases would become more simplified, automated and not change them at all.

I would really like to have it include concepts like the Kardashev Scale

Kardashev Scale
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

If comparing to Spore Type 0 would be civ phase, Type 1 would be space phase and type 2 and beyond would be what i would like to see Maxis expand the game to include as more advanced phases.