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Will Wright's Spore => Spore: General => Topic started by: skewedjester on June 20, 2008, 08:03:00 am

Title: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: skewedjester on June 20, 2008, 08:03:00 am
So, I've been thinking about parts and how they affect stats. The parts aren't treated as having stats themselves, but rather adding to the base statistic of the entire creature (and, of course, enabling the ability/stat if it isn't already present).

For example, a mouth isn't said to bestow a level 3 bite attack, but rather to ADD 3 to the bite attack. So, if you put a mouth with a +2 bite on the same creature that already has a mouth with a +3 bite attack, you get a bite attack of 5 overall, rather than two separate attacks of differing power.

So, therefore, we are capable of making creature purely for aesthetics, if we think a "weaker" part looks better than a "stronger" part. We just have to get creative!

Take the Proto-Jesterling (seen in my avatar). Now, he's a herbivore, but as the free trial has no herbivorous mouths (foolish), and the editor won't let you save a creature without a mouth, I had to add one, but I don't want it to be seen. So, where is it? Hiding under his two front eyes. I picked the weakest insect mouth, shrunk it as small as possible and rotated it until it was inside the head, then placed eyes over the part that protruded.

So, think of an alternate situation. You want to create a vicious predator, but you don't agree with the editor's limitation that he needs that +5 mouth to have the power you want. You much prefer, say, the +2 mouth, and you REALLY don't want the +5 mouth on your creature (or at least you don't want it visible). All you have to do, then, is take a mouth of +3 or above, hide it on the creature in some way (by shrinking and rotating, putting detail parts around it, whatever), and then put the +2 mouth where you want it. There you go -- powerful bite attack, but it still matches your vision of the creature.

This technique is especially useful if you are like me when it comes to creature creation -- "Simplicity is beautiful". You can get good stats on a creature without bogging it down with parts you'd rather not see.

Of course, I could be wrong about all this. I have not playtested combat or anything. This is just what I have deduced from observing the interplay of parts and stats in the CC.

What do you think?

EDIT: Yes, I forgot about how the game loads creatures appropriate for your power level. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: Megajames75 on June 20, 2008, 08:07:26 am
Having only one mouth is the eye with mess up the bite attack, but it's a good idea.

HOWEVER... not all your creatues need to be lvl20 attack. Full Stop.
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker pa
Post by: Gorman Conall on June 20, 2008, 08:10:54 am
I think if you want a simple creature use the simple parts and keep the simple stats.

I go for aesthetics stats be damned.

The eco system needs a full food chain not just the top link.
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: DaMuncha on June 20, 2008, 08:11:35 am
Take the Proto-Jesterling (seen in my avatar). Now, he's a herbivore, but as the free trial has no herbivorous mouths (foolish), and the editor won't let you save a creature without a mouth, I had to add one, but I don't want it to be seen. So, where is it? Hiding under his two front eyes. I picked the weakest insect mouth, shrunk it as small as possible and rotated it until it was inside the head, then placed eyes over the part that protruded.


Thats what I did with Snoopy, Cause he doesnt realy have a mouth.
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: skewedjester on June 20, 2008, 08:11:59 am
Having only one mouth is the eye with mess up the bite attack, but it's a good idea.

HOWEVER... not all your creatues need to be lvl20 attack. Full Stop.

Well, the idea is to give it a herbivorous mouth later on.

And I agree that not all creatures need to be maxed out. I'm just pointing out a way to get the look you want and some more stats if it goes with your concept.
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: gec05 on June 20, 2008, 08:15:31 am
That's what I did to give my creatures a lvl 5 glide power. I shrink a couple extra sets of wings and hide them into the torso.
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: JKalenad on June 20, 2008, 08:52:16 am
My Darkrai used some of those techniques. I hid mouths under its eyes and a leg stub under its "skirt". Originally I had the mouth under a horn, but that made Darkrai bend its head really strangely, so I had to move it lower on its face.
When I make a creature that's supposed to look like something specific, I tend to try to make it so it could actually function in the Spore world, while also adhering to an appearance.
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker pa
Post by: Gungnir on June 20, 2008, 09:00:45 am
I think if you want a simple creature use the simple parts and keep the simple stats.

I go for aesthetics stats be damned.

The eco system needs a full food chain not just the top link.
I agree with you completely.
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: Techleo on June 20, 2008, 09:30:00 am
 I like to design creatures and see what there natural traits are. Sometimes Im surprised just how powerful my creatures end up being. My Lhus Gami turned out to fly and glide and attack and dance and basically do everything extremley well but it was entirely unintended ;D Speaking of I need to put her in my Profile!
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: skewedjester on June 20, 2008, 09:59:06 am
I like to design creatures and see what there natural traits are. Sometimes Im surprised just how powerful my creatures end up being. My Lhus Gami turned out to fly and glide and attack and dance and basically do everything extremley well but it was entirely unintended ;D Speaking of I need to put her in my Profile!

Of course, there is certainly something to be said for that approach. Actually, all my creatures have been purely aesthetic up to this point, and will probably remain so for the most part.

I just like the possibility of being able to sneak some more stat points on if you choose to do so. You can even make it a part of the evolution of the creature. Give it a higher bite stat without changing the mouth that you like, for instance, and just say that your creature developed a venomous bite that increased its efficiency.

It's all part of the story, if you make it so.
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker pa
Post by: W8-4Spore on June 20, 2008, 09:59:07 am
I like to design creatures and see what there natural traits are. Sometimes Im surprised just how powerful my creatures end up being.

Agreed, This is what I do too. If you like the unevolved forms of the mouths better, than just choose it and live with the consequence. Forget about the stats... That's not really what this game is all about anyway.
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: The Time Traveller on June 20, 2008, 10:22:17 am
Wait.  No herbivorous mouths?  Why?
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: skewedjester on June 20, 2008, 10:37:48 am
Wait.  No herbivorous mouths?  Why?

It's a CONSPIRACY, man!

Really, I have no idea. They give you the top two rows in full, but that's it. Row 1 is reptilian/dinasaurian, row 2 is insect, and both are strictly carnivorous.

Agreed, This is what I do too. If you like the unevolved forms of the mouths better, than just choose it and live with the consequence. Forget about the stats... That's not really what this game is all about anyway.

Ah, but Spore is magic, and will mean different things to different people.  :)
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: MageLite on June 20, 2008, 10:46:09 am
So, therefore, we are capable of making creature purely for aesthetics, if we think a "weaker" part looks better than a "stronger" part. We just have to get creative!
You can make a creature purely for aesthetics anyway. The game loads up creatures appropriate to you creature's strength level.
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: skewedjester on June 20, 2008, 11:00:08 am
You can make a creature purely for aesthetics anyway. The game loads up creatures appropriate to you creature's strength level.

True. I did forget that.
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: Len84 on June 20, 2008, 11:14:05 am
So, therefore, we are capable of making creature purely for aesthetics, if we think a "weaker" part looks better than a "stronger" part. We just have to get creative!
You can make a creature purely for aesthetics anyway. The game loads up creatures appropriate to you creature's strength level.

Yeah I was gonna say, once said by a character "Life will find a way."

I made a small, one legged herbivore with a wee bit of armor and stealth. I can't wait to see how it survives against its antithesis. A small one legged carnivore, no defence, no stealth, poison shot (see my avatar hehe).
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: skewedjester on June 20, 2008, 11:23:56 am
Yeah I was gonna say, once said by a character "Life will find a way."

I made a small, one legged herbivore with a wee bit of armor and stealth. I can't wait to see how it survives against its antithesis. A small one legged carnivore, no defence, no stealth, poison shot (see my avatar hehe).

Hey, pogo mouse. Cool!
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: Darcie on June 20, 2008, 11:25:33 am
I think the stats max out at +5 each so really it isn't that hard to cap even with simple parts.
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: Len84 on June 20, 2008, 11:30:24 am
Yeah I was gonna say, once said by a character "Life will find a way."

I made a small, one legged herbivore with a wee bit of armor and stealth. I can't wait to see how it survives against its antithesis. A small one legged carnivore, no defence, no stealth, poison shot (see my avatar hehe).

Hey, pogo mouse. Cool!

Damn, good name for it (it animates brilliantly too)! I just made up a name haha. Ahh i'm crap with names :(
It looks like loads of people are making large animals, so i'm trying to make a load of small ones.

I hope that at later stages of evolution, your stats increase. Even if its marginal.
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: keithn on June 20, 2008, 11:37:32 am
Here are the best stats cramming in various directions I've been able to get out of the trial version:

Social:                    Attack:
(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk253/keithn_2008/GrokkStats.jpg)(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk253/keithn_2008/TarkStats-1.jpg)

For attack, I chose sneak level 5 over the final level of spit, because I was merely assuming that the sneak level 5 bonus to attack with 19 attack is better than sneak level 3 with the final level of spit.  I have no idea which one is better, though, really.

Spit is really a complexity hog.  Maybe that's part of its cost, because it's extra nice having a ranged attack?  Hmm...

More generally, it's interesting that, in the trial version at least, if you want to specialize in attack to the extremes, you have to forego alot of bundled points.  Is that to offset the faster acting nature of attacking versus socializing?  Hmm...
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker pa
Post by: Gorman Conall on June 20, 2008, 11:43:18 am
I am willing to bet theres a lot of back ground stats that you can not see too.
Title: Re: How parts and stats work OR How to create powerful creatures with weaker parts.
Post by: Orly on June 20, 2008, 12:10:07 pm
i just make a few creatures meant to be the more powerful ones. some are so-so, and some are literally just fodder. (i.e., the Fodderfern)