Gaming Steve Message Board

Will Wright's Spore => Spore: General => Topic started by: CelineSSauve on December 31, 2007, 09:16:07 pm

Title: SecuROM
Post by: CelineSSauve on December 31, 2007, 09:16:07 pm
Well, something finally had to force me from occasional lurker to poster and it was the lack of any posts coming up as a result of a search of the term "secuROM" that did it.

Perhaps no one's aware of the issue, but EA has decided to include secuROM in all their future products.

Games which have already shipped with this software included bear no warning of the possible side effects of that bit of software, nor any mention that it is secretly installed along with the game. Side effects range from changing firewall settings to claiming that the original CD is an illegal copy to forcing people to reformat their computers and/or get new DVD/CD burner drives.

This does not effect all computers secuROM comes into contact with (there is a theory that the newer the computer the higher the chance of serious complications because secuROM will not identify newer programs as legal) but I personally will not be taking the chance.

There's a lot of information out there on the issue if you want to Google it.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: gec05 on December 31, 2007, 09:21:24 pm
Interesting. Hopefully I don't run into this when I get a new computer.

Oh, and welcome to the forums.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Sub on December 31, 2007, 10:05:49 pm
Well, something finally had to force me from occasional lurker to poster and it was the lack of any posts coming up as a result of a search of the term "secuROM" that did it.

Perhaps no one's aware of the issue, but EA has decided to include secuROM in all their future products.

Games which have already shipped with this software included bear no warning of the possible side effects of that bit of software, nor any mention that it is secretly installed along with the game. Side effects range from changing firewall settings to claiming that the original CD is an illegal copy to forcing people to reformat their computers and/or get new DVD/CD burner drives.

This does not effect all computers secuROM comes into contact with (there is a theory that the newer the computer the higher the chance of serious complications because secuROM will not identify newer programs as legal) but I personally will not be taking the chance.

There's a lot of information out there on the issue if you want to Google it.

I wouldn't worry about it.  It's a lot better than Starforce, and honestly, I don't know what you were expecting.  Almost all PC games ship with some form of copy protection.  I'm not sure why considering it never stops anyone from pirating, but they all do.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: happydan20 on December 31, 2007, 10:37:29 pm
tages or starforce, those really suck... but securerom is always cracked, I dont know why they bother.  All the drive emulators have toggles just for fooling securerom.

I plan on buying a retail version of the game though, I would assume a cracked version wouldn't be able to authenticate with the content servers, and a game this different deserves support.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Hammerman58 on January 01, 2008, 12:15:00 am
Wow secureROM! Why do they even try?  :-\ Its just a waist of money for them to make these things. Like happydan said they are always cracked. Its so easy to beat. ;D
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: nausved on January 01, 2008, 12:22:49 am
This makes me seriously reconsider buying this game.

This is a very foolish move on EA's part. It will force would-be customers to get bootleg copies of games (and there WILL be bootlegs) if they wish to avoid having this error-prone copyright protection placed on their computers.

I have never used bootleg software, and nor do I care to in the future, but I'd much sooner buy a bootleg with the protection removed than inadvertently install anything that might interfere with the function of my computer. (Most likely, though, I just won't use the software at all.)

Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Hammerman58 on January 01, 2008, 12:25:48 am
That shouldnt put u off from buying the game. They might make it better and their is always a work around. 
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Sub on January 01, 2008, 01:06:23 am
I don't understand why people were thinking the game would come without anti-piracy content.  Almost every new release comes with it.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Spore-addict on January 01, 2008, 02:35:56 am
So a crappy anti-pirate protection should prevent me from buying the game...

No chance in h... that is going to happend.

All games have some sort of anti pirate thing, and have not had problemst...well big tim with it.

and if the game is bought then it should not give any problems.

Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Megajames75 on January 01, 2008, 02:49:56 am
This is why Stardock is my favorite games company. They don't make many games yet, they mostly do desktop software. Their main game is Galactic Civilizations II, it has NO COPY PROTECTION. Instead you get a unique serial number and account, not a number like the Sim 2 has where you  can just go on-line and borrow other peoples number, but a unique set of details. With this number you can re-download the game as many times as you want, even on multiple computers. But best of all you can download the patches, Stardock does not release patches simply to fix and  debug the game, they release patches to fix, debug, and add major new features, like a new graphics engine. As the game receives no copy protections loads of people pirate it, then within a few weeks most of them buy the game so they can get the new features.

I could go on for ages about the ways Stardock are great, like making expansion packs other game developers would call sequales. The way you can talk to a dev nearly all the time, not just at set times. The end result, very little piracy for Gal Civ II.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Shadowgandor on January 01, 2008, 03:39:50 am
I bought a game before (can't remember name) and I got into trouble with the protection. It said it wasn't the original disc :-\
After replacing the original .exe with a no-cd .exe, it seemed to fix the problem and didn't have any nasty side effects with it.
And if someone's going to tell me that it's illegal to talk about it: No-cd's are legal as long as you own the original copy of the game :)
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: DaMuncha on January 01, 2008, 03:46:46 am
Bioshock also installs SecuROM, There was alot of screaming and shouting about that on those forums too. But Bioshock wont work without it, and it'll probably be the same for Spore. Though it hasnt caused me any problems yet.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Lonemessiah on January 01, 2008, 03:54:29 am
No-cd cracks are not legal. Whilst in principal you are right, the main legal issues arise in the user end agreement. You know, that bit where you click that you agree to loads of rules before you can use the software, which we all obviously read before agreeing to it. In there are usually clauses that ban the use of cracks with the use of the software, and therefore you break copyright laws.

Not really wanting to start a debate on this, as i hate thread hi-jacking.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Gauphastus on January 01, 2008, 04:15:48 am
Anti-piracy stuffs haven't ever bothered me near as I can tell.

Hell, if Spore came with a suite of trojans, I'd still..
..uh, well. Maybe not.
But anyways, knowledge of this changes nothing for me.


Also note that there is (apparently) absolutely no room for debate on the use of no-cd dealies on these forums.
Feel free to use the yaplet though.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: DoggySpew on January 01, 2008, 05:14:13 am
Hmmm,
I wonder how legal this is ? In Europe, copyright protection software that damages or alters PC setups are illegal (Due to a courtcase against Sony, where the software would damage the hardware).
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: SpaceOddity on January 01, 2008, 06:32:47 am
I would be very sad if Spore would come with SecuROM...  :'( I didn't play Bioshock because of it...
My PC is mine. Software that installs programs without my permission and will not allow me to remove it, is malware IMHO. Copy protection is OK, hijacking my PC to achieve it is not.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: CelineSSauve on January 01, 2008, 07:22:26 am
I don't understand why people were thinking the game would come without anti-piracy content.  Almost every new release comes with it.
It's not that they have anti-piracy content, it is which one they decided to use.

So a crappy anti-pirate protection should prevent me from buying the game...

No chance in h... that is going to happend.

All games have some sort of anti pirate thing, and have not had problemst...well big tim with it.

and if the game is bought then it should not give any problems.
I bought a game before (can't remember name) and I got into trouble with the protection. It said it wasn't the original disc :-\
After replacing the original .exe with a no-cd .exe, it seemed to fix the problem and didn't have any nasty side effects with it.
And if someone's going to tell me that it's illegal to talk about it: No-cd's are legal as long as you own the original copy of the game :)
Thank you, Shadowgandor . That's what happens to some people with secuROM as well. I did mention that in my original post

Hmmm,
I wonder how legal this is ? In Europe, copyright protection software that damages or alters PC setups are illegal (Due to a courtcase against Sony, where the software would damage the hardware).
No one's sure, though enough outrage was raised on the Sims2 boards to force EA to post a complete uninstall for seruROM on their site instead of the partial which they originally put up which kept the software on the computer. But despite the fact that it contains "anti-piracy protection" if you get the game and it messes up your PC (not counting the $100s or $1000s you may have to pay to replace a drive or all the software you also legally had installed when you were forced to reformat) you're unable to return opened games to stores unless you want an unopened copy of the exact same game in return (or unless they're a recall, like the one to remove the hidden content in a game last year.)

Though, of course, once secuROM is removed, your PC may be safe from further/future damage, but you're unable to play your legally purchased game unless you reinstall it (and secuROM with it).

I would be very sad if Spore would come with SecuROM...  :'( I didn't play Bioshock because of it...
My PC is mine. Software that installs programs without my permission and will not allow me to remove it, is malware IMHO. Copy protection is OK, hijacking my PC to achieve it is not.
EA made the announcement, it will. Despite admitting that it causes problems on "a small percentage of PCs" they figure they got the money anyway so it's not their problem. (Sony also sidesteps calls about the issue apparently. This just makes me glad I've got more then enough Sims things to never have to buy more, but it makes me rather angry that I've now waited for Spore since the first preview and now won't be getting it...)


It is your choice though, and I can respect those who say it won't stop them from buying what seems to be a very interesting game (I'm still annoyed that they removed the water creature phase, because a blob coming onto land and then having to survive until you can get it proper limbs sounds off... or is that in the microbe part as well?)

All I can reply to those is "May the Die of PC Fate roll in your favour." I'm just glad that the community here is now informed on the issue (at least partly, as I said Google has much more information I have not posted here).

((Alternatively, http://www.amazon.com/review/R2DGV7ZTO8XFMK/ref=cm_cr_dp_cmt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&ASIN=B000PS1HNQ#wasThisHelpful  That is a review of Sims2 Bon Voyage which has secuROM (Maxi started putting it in from about Seasons onward). It is what finally forced me to inform you here, and it is filled with more detailed explanations then I could hope to give of the discussion, issues and (il)legallities in such software.))
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: happydan20 on January 01, 2008, 08:53:09 am
I can speak for bioshock, works just fine without securom ;)

I had the same problem with tie fighter, I bought the game and couldnt get it to run because its so old, but a cracked version of the same game ran fine.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: happydan20 on January 01, 2008, 08:58:53 am
Personally I the whole missing out on all the extra content will be copy protection enough, unless you're really talented and the stock creatures rock...

They could make some awesome editing feature a free download, anything to get people to use the server to validate the game.  Spore is unique in that you will really miss out if you get a cracked version and i think they should go with that, instead of intrusive copy protection.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: nausved on January 01, 2008, 11:48:04 am
All games have some sort of anti pirate thing...

I use a Macintosh. Copyright protection software generally affects only PCs, not Macs. As such, copyright protection has never prevented me from buying a game in the past.

But there is a new Mac-compatible version of SecuROM, which means that the Mac version of Spore will have copyright protection.

Perhaps some PC users are used to having their computers screwed around with, and so it's not such a big deal to them. But I, for one, am not willing to jeopardize my computer for a game.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: SpaceOddity on January 01, 2008, 12:08:28 pm
You're missing the point, I'm sure everybody here is fully prepared to pay for Spore. The point is that this newest SecuROM software is acting like malware, and I call that bad. If you de-install a game using it, it will persist. You need some serious PC knowledge to get rid of it. Don't be surprised if your virus protection software starts warning you for having it.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: CelineSSauve on January 01, 2008, 12:09:58 pm
SecuROM is nothing new or particularly bad.
If you play games you probably already have SecuROM games.

here is a list:
http://www.daemon-tools.cc/dtcc/gamedb.php?letter=all

Baldur's Gate II (never gave me an issue) and Spellforce (which gave me several. Now at least I know what was wrong. Thankfully, it didn't kill a drive. I was lucky [and that publisher had good tech support].)

Spore is worth paying for just for the principle of supporting
the development of the creative and original.

Spore's not worth my PC though. No game is. I may still get the DS version.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Gauphastus on January 01, 2008, 01:32:13 pm
Ohh, a list. Let's see... which ones concern me?
Diablo II
all the Hitman games
Empire Earth uses
Gothic 2 uses
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
Hellgate: London
Homeworld 2 (I think, somewhere)
Sid Meier's Pirates
Warcraft III (but I might not have installed it on this machine yet)


So yeah. According to that Daemon Tools list there, these are all the games that have likely all thrown some version of secuROM somewhere on my computer.
Well... at any given point in the time, somebody is having some kind of problem with their computer. It's completely inevitable and highly likely given how many there are out there. I'm not saying it is the owner's fault, but the machine's.
There's a reason this stuff doesn't bother -everybody-. All I can see is that it inconveniences some people some of the time.
From what I've read, secuROM is nowhere near as potentially damaging as Starforce. That doesn't mean it's good, but it's just not that huge a deal.


In the early days with this machine of mine, the dual processors would overpower older games, making them psycho fast. These days, for some reason, they mainly stopped that.
I'd also get RAM errors, and very very rarely, a reboot. All that seems to have ironed itself out.
I haven't really had any problems since the beginning of this machine's life. That was all loooong before I got a single one of those games I mentioned.


Now I know you're not necessarily saying that every single person is in danger because of this shady software; it's just that you want everyone to consider the facts about it before it's too late, before they have to deal with some sort of bullcrap. That's good. I totally agree.
I'm just countering that, in my experience, I've not had a single problem with my machine related to anti-piracy software.

My only beef is that it goes right ahead and installs itself without your express permission. I hate this kind of crap, and I've always had a problem with it.
But you know what? If I can still play the game without any weird incidents, I simply don't care.
*shrug*

It may seem stupid, but the only way I'll join in on this anti-anti-piracy software bandwagon is if something bad actually happens to me.


Now in the meantime, if you want to make some kind of Spore secuROM boycott, feel free. I'll maintain my signature so long as it's not already too late to change it.
Otherwise, there's not really anything I can do to prevent the use of secuROM aside from maybe firing off some ill-informed emails.
Best I got at this point.  :-\
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: SpaceOddity on January 01, 2008, 02:02:14 pm
My, aren't we touchy?  ;D

I just like to know what's going on on my machine, call it... ownership.  ;)
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Gauphastus on January 01, 2008, 02:06:14 pm
Aw, he's just making fun. :P

I think there's a fine line between caution and paranoia though.
If I may ask, have you guys ever actually had a problem with secuROM that you understandably avoid it, or are you simply doing it to avoid even the slightest chance of risk?

I know computers can be (and usually are) quite expensive, so I completely understand your need to be protective.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: SpaceOddity on January 01, 2008, 02:13:46 pm
Well, now that you mention it. Just a few days ago we have dumped the Vista from our newest PC (it came with it), reformatted the hard drive and installed XP on it! ;D

Seriously.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Spore-addict on January 01, 2008, 02:26:01 pm
lol so xp is better than vista in that sence...they are both controlled and owned by microsoft!!GG no Re

Have played grand theft auto san andreas and others...no problems

What can you do. Avoid the best game of the year....well likely ;-) because of that.

Destroying your comp...geez..a format cures anything, it cant overheat since all the hardware is under surveilance......

The chance of being hit by a car is bigger than this...has no problem in it.

Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: SpaceOddity on January 01, 2008, 02:32:00 pm
lol so xp is better than vista in that sence...they are both controlled and owned by microsoft!! GG no Re

Yes, although they both are from Microsoft, XP is quite a bit more transparent than Vista is. (If I understood your point correctly... ;))
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Uroboros on January 01, 2008, 02:36:06 pm
I dont particularly feel any threat from it. If you're concerned, put off buying spore for a week, and google for pages that might point towards possible issues. Failing that, its always a good idea to keep backups of vital stuff in your computer, whether or not you expect the worst to happen. If you have backups, a format is just an inconvenience that resolves pretty much everything short of hardware errors. And its normally a good idea to format at least once a year anyway...

I've always hated the "Dont be cheap, buy this to resolve the problem" responses, but it may pay off in the long run to invest in a DVD writer or a USB flash drive. You'd be hard pressed to find a CD drive that doesnt also burn CDs. I picked up a 1gig flash drive from a Tesco's (supermarket), for £15. Backing up the bare essentials of the things you want to keep, shouldnt be a big issue unless you're the type who packs a few hundred terabytes over several drives. Even then, you should have your smallest one as your system HD, so you can just reformat that alone. Its always a good idea to have backups, no matter the computer.

If I may ask, have you guys ever actually had a problem with secuROM that you understandably avoid it, or are you simply doing it to avoid even the slightest chance of risk?
Well, i've always had a love/hate relationship with my computers. Back before I knew anything more than the value of an antivirus program, my computers would have this random habit of rebooting, freezing, refusing to read CDs, leaving unremovable junk-files (0kb), and generally being a slow-death cluster****. Since I learned a bit more, the only real troubles I seem to have with my computer have been hardware related. I dont intend to turn a blind eye to anything that can cause my machine to go crazy again. Only game I recall directly killing my machine was "Koala Lumpur : Journey To The Edge".

Well, now that you mention it. Just a few days ago we have dumped the Vista from our newest PC (it came with it), reformatted the hard drive and installed XP on it! ;D
Thats more common sense than anything else. :P
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: CelineSSauve on January 01, 2008, 04:03:05 pm
Aw, he's just making fun. :P

I think there's a fine line between caution and paranoia though.
If I may ask, have you guys ever actually had a problem with secuROM that you understandably avoid it, or are you simply doing it to avoid even the slightest chance of risk?

Spellforce gave me minor issues (as in shutting down programs, messing with firewalls and the such but not flat out killing anything). That was an older version of secuROM (it I read that list correctly) than the practically beta version which was put on the Sims 2 and other EA/Maxis products in the recent past (Last October, or November if I remember correctly.)

Is this where to file a complaint about Sony SecuROM?  ::)

https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup (https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup)

*smiriks* Could be, though I'm not sure if they'd care if they heard from non-Americans though. There are people who are contacting the BBB though about the issue of installing a product which runs secretly behind the scenes and has a chance (I don't care how slim) of destroying personal property without at least warning the user before hand.



For example. I have a game her which ran safedisk. It gave a full warning before hand and since that was with my older PC and I was already set to order a new one anyway I accepted the risk. But that was with a fair warning before hand.


I've always hated the "Dont be cheap, buy this to resolve the problem" responses, but it may pay off in the long run to invest in a DVD writer or a USB flash drive.

So you're saying... buy a spare? :P The point is that secuROM may cause DVD/CD burning drives to crash. I find it hard to find a drive that doesn't also burn in some form or another now days and as such would be safe from the possible crash.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Uroboros on January 01, 2008, 08:35:30 pm
Just telling people that making backups is a good idea. After all, if it messes with your CD/DVD drive, as I said, a format would pretty much fix everything, right?
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: xirtap on January 02, 2008, 05:23:20 am
Copy protection today is a joke. Almost every game the past months have been cracked and released the same day(if not before) they're released in stores. The only game with a good(yeah, right) protection was BioShock, which ended up being a pain in the ass for most people(I know I hated it), but even that game is cracked.

I understand the reason for copy protection, but everyone has access to cracked files today. Hell, I'll probably buy the game, but play a scene release instead. I have more faith in the warez scene than the publishers, at least they have to follow a standard.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: CelineSSauve on January 02, 2008, 06:04:57 am
Hell, I'll probably buy the game, but play a scene release instead. I have more faith in the warez scene than the publishers, at least they have to follow a standard.

Sorry... "Scene release?"
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: xirtap on January 02, 2008, 07:40:49 am
Hell, I'll probably buy the game, but play a scene release instead. I have more faith in the warez scene than the publishers, at least they have to follow a standard.

Sorry... "Scene release?"

The warez scene. It's sort of a group of people who release the majority of copyrighted material on the internet.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Woulfe on January 02, 2008, 04:43:06 pm
Well, now that you mention it. Just a few days ago we have dumped the Vista from our newest PC (it came with it), reformatted the hard drive and installed XP on it! ;D

Seriously.


I won't touch Vista with a universe long pole, so Good For You ! [tm]

Seriously, i'm staying with XP, Billy Bob Gates owns my soul several times over as it is, what's one less version of Windows anyway ?

Not like the entire universe needs to run on Vista anyway, yes ?

- W -
* Smirks *

Title: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Evildude on May 05, 2008, 08:09:25 pm
http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=628375&forum=125&sp=15
See the 2nd post on that page

Quote
    Quote: Posted 05/03/08 18:04 (GMT) by aries1001

    I certainly hope your or the EA servers are readu for the massive influx of people trying to activate the game all at once.

Yes, EA is ready for us and getting ready for Spore, which will use the same system.
^
That was said by a Technical Producer for the PC version of Mass Effect.

Here is what secuROM does:
Quote
After the first activation, SecuROM requires that it re-check with the server within ten days (in case the CD Key has become public/warez'd and gets banned). Just so that the 10 day thing doesn't become abrupt, SecuROM tries its first re-check with 5 days remaining in the 10 day window. If it can't contact the server before the 10 days are up, nothing bad happens and the game still runs. After 10 days a re-check is required before the game can run.

Basically, you are forced to play online at least once every ten days or your game stops working.

Why don't publishers trust us anymore? At least come up with a less invasive protection. It'll be broken at the same speed as your over the top ones, don't hassle us with your fruitless efforts to stop pirates.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Petreak on May 05, 2008, 08:40:12 pm
That is crazy. What happened to not needing Internet access to play Spore? I guess that's out now.
I would rather play with the DVD in the drive.
What if I am somewhere with out Internet? That means I can't play after 10 days. I have family with no Internet connection that I visit. If I have Spore on my Laptop I won't be able to play it. Jeez!
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: gec05 on May 05, 2008, 08:42:14 pm
Hopefully Maxis/EA will follow the philosophy of giving free updates and perks for those who legitimately purchase the game while making the experience a crappy one for those pirates.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Lurker28 on May 05, 2008, 08:56:33 pm
LoL, because truthfully they have good reasons not to trust us.

I graduated with a degree in digital animation, while I was never the greatest artist I have had a handful of friends who all went on to acquire jobs in the industry and I can assure you that one of the biggest downfalls of developers are not because of a ****ty game (I am sorry anything above a 70% is not ****ty), but due to individuals pirating. Technically we did this ourselves.

I have a personal rule that I use when downloading games illegally. If I play the game for more then 5...or end up complete the game, I will buy it. I downloaded bioshock a few days before it came out, completed the game and went out to buy it at the store. It is still unopen to this day, but at least I know that I support the developers.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Petreak on May 05, 2008, 09:06:02 pm
I don't Pirate games. I buy them.
The main issue here is the fact they have said several times you don't need Internet to play the game, but if it needs to check the Internet every 10 days to play the game, then that means you need Internet. I hope they clarify this.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Sasha on May 05, 2008, 09:07:52 pm
Oh, I see. So let's picture this: We buy the game, play it. Then all of a sudden, our ISP provider is having some problems, they are unable to provide the service for 15 days.

What are we supposed to do?

Run to a friend's house, install the game do the thingy to get more 10 days of game?

Not everyone has the internet. My best friend, for example, was 2 years without internet and he was a world of warcraft Player. Since none of my friends live near me(beside this guy), what would I do?

Run to the library to linstall the game?

Or,  due to work, studies, girlfriends, whatever, we forget to "activate" it. what happens? 50€ down the toilet?



Seriously. It ain't gonna happen.



Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: keithn on May 05, 2008, 09:29:26 pm
Oh, good find.  Hehe, that will delay me getting Spore for a few years, at least.  Oh well.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: happydan20 on May 05, 2008, 09:50:54 pm
this rumor has been making the rounds for years. 

If it is true, its the easiest to crack, its a joke.  Even though im buying the game, id have no qualms with disabling the protection.

I seriously doubt its true.  This game is cute and has a large market in the sims community, which is younger...  I don't expect them to have NO protection, but i don't expect it to be invasive either.

The truth is, they wont NEED copy protection, anymore than any online game does.  You'll need some form of account or ID to access the servers, and the game would probably seem gimped without the streaming content and new stuff.

Honestly thats all the protection they need.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: helio-G on May 05, 2008, 09:52:28 pm
Oh, I see. So let's picture this: We buy the game, play it. Then all of a sudden, our ISP provider is having some problems, they are unable to provide the service for 15 days.

What are we supposed to do?



just download an unlocked illegal version. Or some type of no cd hack/patch. That's what I'm doing if they decide to do this. Although i don't ever plan to go were there is no Internet service. SO i might not do it.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 05, 2008, 10:22:30 pm
Let's not jump to conclusions just yet, I'll email MaxisCactus and see if he/she? can confirm/deny this.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Verkinix on May 05, 2008, 10:31:07 pm
http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=628375&forum=125&sp=15
See the 2nd post on that page

Quote
    Quote: Posted 05/03/08 18:04 (GMT) by aries1001

    I certainly hope your or the EA servers are readu for the massive influx of people trying to activate the game all at once.

Yes, EA is ready for us and getting ready for Spore, which will use the same system.
^
That was said by a Technical Producer for the PC version of Mass Effect.

Here is what secuROM does:
Quote
After the first activation, SecuROM requires that it re-check with the server within ten days (in case the CD Key has become public/warez'd and gets banned). Just so that the 10 day thing doesn't become abrupt, SecuROM tries its first re-check with 5 days remaining in the 10 day window. If it can't contact the server before the 10 days are up, nothing bad happens and the game still runs. After 10 days a re-check is required before the game can run.

Basically, you are forced to play online at least once every ten days or your game stops working.

Why don't publishers trust us anymore? At least come up with a less invasive protection. It'll be broken at the same speed as your over the top ones, don't hassle us with your fruitless efforts to stop pirates.

Ok, this is getting a little out of control. What is with companies now-a-days and using these absurd security measures. Especially EA products. I still have problems getting CnC3 and Sims 2 to work half the time because of SecuROM or whatever they put in there. It comes down to, ordinary people with limited computer experience, but who are loyal customers cannot play the game they paid good money for, yet the pirates with expertise in such matters can bypass the security regularly and effectively. Now, if they are going to start having people "log in" every few days just to play the game they spent good money on, thats just rediculous. I dont always have internet access myself which is why I prefer products from stardock and steam. You register your game once with a unique serial and it is linked to your account. Then you can play offline all you want. No hassel, no fuss. That is why I purchase most of their products, including some that I really dont care for, but I support the company.

And what of the statements made during a few of the promo conventions that indicated if people didnt have internet access, they could play the full game on the CD just fine. Was that just alot of smoke being blown? I was really looking forward to Spore. I thought, 'if spore is going to be EA's new flagship game, then they are going to try and make it available to as many people as possible. This means that their security measures will have to be lightened to accomodate the masses of computer modificationally ignorant people who want to simply install and play the game they purchased. Further the pirates, who get around every security known in existance, will do what they are going to do anyway, and I guess thats that.' But seriously, what is the point of supporting a company or a product that requires a masters degree in computer science in order to simply play the game?

Now I am not saying this security system will necessarily be as horrid as the sims has been. But given EA's past, I'm not doubting it will cause many normal people alot of grief. And what of those without internet access world wide? If this is going to truly be a global phenomenon, then it will require login only to download new content and NOT to update the license. My stardock and steam products dont require a refresh of license or a disk in the drive and both companies seem to be doing fine financially. I just dont see why EA wont grow up and see the big picture. Why alienate half your customer base with a security system that is simply absurd to all but the executives?

Anyway, I still have high hopes that this biz about Spore having a login to update license every 10 days is only a rumor and wont make it into the final game. I also have high hopes that the game wont require a disk in the drive to play. On a laptop, it's painfully difficult to keep track of, transport, and change out disks when you simply want to play something else. I havent played any of my EA products recently because I simply dont want to change disks. Oblivion in the drive is fine for the moment. I have my collection of stardock, steam, and guild wars games that all dont require a disk in the drive to play and that is more then enough for me atm.

Finally, if EA's tech support was up to par, then I could sort of justify the security measures. But I am still waiting for a response on a sims 2 issue that I posted 3 months ago and havent received any reply. I have sent it twice now and nothing. Likewise, there are several issues with CnC3 that have not been acknowledged from a month or two ago. All of which, oddly enough, have to do with the security software that is causing issues in Vista. Anyway, I now I can whine and moan all I want, and ultimately I have the choice whether or not to purchase their products. But it comes down to, I WANT to purchase their products. I WANT to support them. When their products work, they are fun. But it is going to take alot more people then just myself to make EA realize that the old ways of doing business (protecting IP with such ferocity) is dead or dying and that they cannot prevent pirates who know what they are doing from getting ahold of their IP. And to start making security software that doesnt inhibit genuine customers from playing their product without requiring a disk or constant reactivation. Start to TRUST that people will support the non DRM (even some pirates surprisingly enough) and give us a product worthy of being ranked on the 'global phenomenon' scale.

Thanks

Edit: I should add, many games have a fair sized pirate base and companies have blamed the pirates for their projected dip in sales. This isnt entirely accurate because many of these pirates wouldnt have purchased the product even if they couldnt crack the game. So technically, the companies arent losing revenue as those arent potential customers anyway. They would simply go on to another product that they wanted to play and that they could crack. And this is true for the majority of the pirate base. There is a relative few that pirate only because its available and would buy if it wasnt. There are enough games out there to play that it's not a big deal if one game isnt easily crackable. They just move on to the next.

I am in no way condoning piracy. I purchase all of my games legit. Especially being a primary PC gamer, I have to support the PC industry as much as possible in order to continue to get quality games for the platform. Nothing like a shiny new box and booklet!
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Jennifer Reitz on May 05, 2008, 10:36:48 pm
Let's not jump to conclusions just yet, I'll email MaxisCactus and see if he/she? can confirm/deny this.

Please do. If Spore uses SecuROM (which, if I recall, also dangerously messes with core of your operating system as well) and requires constant, dependable access to the internet just to play for what has already legitimately been paid for, I, for one, will not ever buy Spore.

That kind of crap is just intolerable. No one should be forced to have internet access just to prove they bought something.

Consider ten years down the road... you want to pull out the original Spore to see what it was like, to play it again. You can't. The old Spore verification servers are no longer up. Spore is now useless. You can never play it again.

I am not going to pay fifty bucks to RENT a program for an unspecified length of time arbitrarily decided by an outside source that I have no means to appeal to. That is what this amounts to, if true. Think about it.

They shut down the verification servers, your internet goes out, their internet goes out, and your fifty bucks and time are wasted. You are screwed. And years down the road, you can forget any nostalgia trip. You don't own what you bought. It isn't really yours.

If true, this is utterly wrong. It cannot be tolerated. That is boycott time.

So, please, find out. Let's hope that they are not that stupid, or that evil. That would make Spore not worth it.

For a LOT of people, I suspect.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 05, 2008, 10:43:37 pm
I seriously doubt SecuROM will be used, I've emailed MaxisCactus and I'll tell you when I get an answer.

I think would work best if you could register an account on the Spore servers using your serial number, giving you access to all the content.

"Free Accounts" would only work with the Creature Creator but they would have an option to insert your serial number and update to a "Full Account" to be used with the game when you purchase it.

You would still be able to play offline and get content from non-official servers but to get the content from the official server you'd need a valid serial.

Before you start asking: "What about Keygens?"
Let's just say the servers would have a database of all serials on retail, this way they could have a totally random key that would be verified by the servers, making any keygen impossible to create a valid key (except by random chance, which would be extremely low).
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Verkinix on May 05, 2008, 10:54:56 pm
I seriously doubt SecuROM will be used, I've emailed MaxisCactus and I'll tell you when I get an answer.

I think would work best if you could register an account on the Spore servers using your serial number, giving you access to all the content.

"Free Accounts" would only work with the Creature Creator but they would have an option to insert your serial number and update to a "Full Account" to be used with the game when you purchase it.

You would still be able to play offline and get content from non-official servers but to get the content from the official server you'd need a valid serial.

Before you start asking: "What about Keygens?"
Let's just say the servers would have a database of all serials on retail, this way they could have a totally random key that would be verified by the servers, making any keygen impossible to create a valid key (except by random chance, which would be extremely low).

Or they could try something entirely new... Have the game be like Sins of a Solar Empire. You can play the game all you want, without a disk in the drive. You register a serial code with the online server in order to do the online stuff. Otherwise you are set to go. I suppose Sins was registered through Stardock central the first time out. That wasnt a big deal at all. Could be done over the phone through and automated system if one didnt have internet access. But the system never checks for the serial again. I simply logs in when you play online. Otherwise offline play is free and clear. No disks, no checks, no background processes. Most people are still willing to pay for the products they purchase. Why not trust that they will make the right decisions? The pirates, without unique serials and logins, wont want to play spore for the simple reason that they cant get all the online content easily and constantly. They can play the base game all they want, but most likely they will get tired of it when they cant publish their stuff to the server. Doesnt that make more sense? You annoy the pirates while keeping the general populous happy AND minimize tech issues resulting in less tech support for non game related issues. Sounds about right to me.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on May 05, 2008, 11:16:12 pm
lol, i thought the allergic reaction to cp would only be to trackmania.

And you DO know that the activations check have nothing to do with the spore online server but with the securom activation server (which happens completely silent)... do you ?

As a musician i think this is completely normal. Because that has happened to our software for years (well or it's disk challenge, or with a dongle). It's only now that these strong measures are coming to games and gamers arn't used to this yet.

.. nothing important happened today :P
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Verkinix on May 05, 2008, 11:43:05 pm
lol, i thought the allergic reaction to cp would only be to trackmania.

And you DO know that the activations check have nothing to do with the spore online server but with the securom activation server (which happens completely silent)... do you ?

As a musician i think this is completely normal. Because that has happened to our software for years (well or it's disk challenge, or with a dongle). It's only now that these strong measures are coming to games and gamers arn't used to this yet.

.. nothing important happened today :P

I understand that this system has nothing to do with the spore online servers. It is still absurd to be required to be online in order to reactivate a product you've purchased. Windows tried that once upon a time and it didnt go over very well. I believe sony tried that with CD copying as well and those got recalled. I just dont see how a system like this would fly with modern day consumers and gamers. Especially with people wary of ID theft. Last thing they want is their authentic serial code being thrown about every 10 days. THAT is just asking for trouble.

As for music DRM, thats been tried as well. And now companies are moving away from it because it's, quite frankly, more hassle to the consumer then its worth. But in contrast between games and music, most music files are 5MB for a song or 650MB for a cd, where a game is 6-10GB now a days. Most casual computer users are more likely to share a few MBs then a few GBs of data because of the long load times and amounts of files.

Further, look at a company like Stardock. Most of their revenue is in interface enhancements for Windows. Who buys these? Casual users. Non-hardcore PC users. There is clearly a system that works as Stardocks revenues rival that of other companies in the similar industry and they dont have the security of the others. The music industry is starting to be handled in a similar fashion and it seems to be working overall. I know I've been purchasing music from Amazon's download MP3 site, which is all DRM free btw, and its worked well. I do not share my downloads. I make backups in case of a hard drive crash or some such problem, but others can buy their own if they want them.

Anyway, my point is that IP is all well and good, but it can be effectively handled in a way that is beneficial to both parties, not just one. EA just needs to step out of the dark ages of business thought and into the modern age.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Sasha on May 06, 2008, 12:02:26 am
Let's not jump to conclusions just yet, I'll email MaxisCactus and see if he/she? can confirm/deny this.

Please do. If Spore uses SecuROM (which, if I recall, also dangerously messes with core of your operating system as well) and requires constant, dependable access to the internet just to play for what has already legitimately been paid for, I, for one, will not ever buy Spore.

That kind of crap is just intolerable. No one should be forced to have internet access just to prove they bought something.

Consider ten years down the road... you want to pull out the original Spore to see what it was like, to play it again. You can't. The old Spore verification servers are no longer up. Spore is now useless. You can never play it again.

I am not going to pay fifty bucks to RENT a program for an unspecified length of time arbitrarily decided by an outside source that I have no means to appeal to. That is what this amounts to, if true. Think about it.

They shut down the verification servers, your internet goes out, their internet goes out, and your fifty bucks and time are wasted. You are screwed. And years down the road, you can forget any nostalgia trip. You don't own what you bought. It isn't really yours.

If true, this is utterly wrong. It cannot be tolerated. That is boycott time.

So, please, find out. Let's hope that they are not that stupid, or that evil. That would make Spore not worth it.

For a LOT of people, I suspect.



Secure rom as a reality, on spore, would kill  - away  from home - holidays.

Imagine that. We wouldn't want to spend a a nice, refreshing 2 week away from the city, with no internet acess because we'd return home to a useless 50€ old game that we've waited years to get  ::)

Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Shadowgandor on May 06, 2008, 02:02:21 am
Jeez people, it sucks for the people who don't have any internet, but how about WoW or Guild Wars and the likes? You can't play those without internet as well and basically, spore is an online game as well.

About the people who go 'whining' about visiting some relatives without internet for 15 days. Oh wow, 5 whooping days without spore 0.o.
I personally approve the fact that the game has some hefty Anti-piracy, seeing how I wouldn't be suprised if they would miss more then 50% of the sales because of piracy.

Also, it is a rumor, as long as it hasn't been acknowledged by EA/Maxis, don't get angry yet.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on May 06, 2008, 02:20:08 am
hmm, I wasn't talking about DRM for music really, but more the software that we use.

I just understand that companies want to go against piracy. I don't want to antagonize here, but the people who are complaining are the people who are having an internet connection, (howe else could I see your reaction here? :P)

I've used securom for years (also starforce , with no prob what soever). If it's just a question about hassle, there's also hassle to make your spore online account on internet .

I don't know I just don't see any problem with this. (except of the system would refuse to work even when I'm online).

But I think i'm going to buy it trough EA download manager anyway. So disc problems wouldn't be my problem.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: SBD on May 06, 2008, 03:35:25 am
I have nothing against authenticating games you have brought, even If you have no choice in the matter. What I do find lazy, greedy and almost discriminatory is when you MUST do it over the net. I was forced to register my copy of Flight Simulator X, but I could do it over the phone without any hassle. EA and other companies should hurry up and realise how many more people would buy there games If they give them an alternative to online activation/authentication.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: MTCason on May 06, 2008, 05:20:33 am
This 'rumour' simply cannot be true.  Spore has been designed, as has been confirmed by the devs over and over again, to be played either online or offline.  They're not going to penalise those who have no reliable Internet access (admittedly fewer and fewer people these days, but still a sizeable demographic) by forcing them to go online every 10 days just to maintain their game's registration.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: leanbarton on May 06, 2008, 05:29:01 am
This would never happen, stop worrying.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Amazingchi on May 06, 2008, 08:38:56 am
Um, has anyone else not taken 'recheck' as 'OMG I WON'T BE ABLE TO PLAY!'?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Plank of Wood on May 06, 2008, 08:42:42 am
If this is true, then they failed to comprehend that maybe people, oh say, don't have time to play spore? Or someone loses their disk, or someone gets bored? So thus, logicly, this cannot be true, not even EA would do this, they won't be able to handle the complaints of people who can't play spore anymore because they forgot to play every 10 days.

Someone e-mail cactus, to make sure this is only a rumor.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 06, 2008, 09:14:48 am
Jeez people, it sucks for the people who don't have any internet, but how about WoW or Guild Wars and the likes? You can't play those without internet as well and basically, spore is an online game as well.

About the people who go 'whining' about visiting some relatives without internet for 15 days. Oh wow, 5 whooping days without spore 0.o.
I personally approve the fact that the game has some hefty Anti-piracy, seeing how I wouldn't be suprised if they would miss more then 50% of the sales because of piracy.

Also, it is a rumor, as long as it hasn't been acknowledged by EA/Maxis, don't get angry yet.

You don't get it, do you?
The pirates will still be able to copy the game, the consumers are the ones who will be screwed...

If this is true, then they failed to comprehend that maybe people, oh say, don't have time to play spore? Or someone loses their disk, or someone gets bored? So thus, logicly, this cannot be true, not even EA would do this, they won't be able to handle the complaints of people who can't play spore anymore because they forgot to play every 10 days.

Someone e-mail cactus, to make sure this is only a rumor.

It's been done.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Evildude on May 06, 2008, 09:25:02 am
I personally approve the fact that the game has some hefty Anti-piracy, seeing how I wouldn't be suprised if they would miss more then 50% of the sales because of piracy.

Really? That's a pretty big claim, do you have anything to back that up with?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Unknown User on May 06, 2008, 09:34:39 am
The biggest problem with DRM is that it makes it more difficult and less rewarding to use the game legally than illegaly.

Pirating a game is already easier than purchasing it outright.  No going to the store, no having to pay money.  All you have to do is find a torrent and wait, and perhaps throw in a crack somewhere.  It's easy, and you're probably not going to get caught doing it. Companies are already having to deal with this.  Adding DRM and copy protection that is intrusive and a pain for the consumer is ridiculous, as you're punishing someone who ACTUALLY bought the product.  It does nothing to the pirates who crack it.  It's a business method that doesn't reward their paying customers, which is unimaginable in any other industry.

That being said, I am perfectly fine with a one time activation code provided by the company that I have to go in and actually register my product to allow its use, whether it be online or over the phone.  Or perhaps setting up an account through the company's website in order to activate it and get any patches, updates, etc.  But don't force the customers to go through more than a one-time thing, and don't restrict us to a certain number of installs, and don't shove spyware on our computers.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Interitus on May 06, 2008, 09:47:08 am
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it's not a recheck every 10 days. It checks the key again after 10 days, it doesn't receck every 10 days. And if it does. I can PROMISE YOU it simply CHECKS. If the key isn't from an illegal site, or a torrent site the game works fine.  If you go on holiday. forget to check it WHATEVER all you need to do is log on, the game doesn't become useless if you don't.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Lippy on May 06, 2008, 10:17:25 am
Interitus, this is from further down in the original post by the tech:

Quote
For clarity, though, an internet connection is not required to install, just to activate the first time, and every 10 days after. You can be completely connectionless for 9 days and encounter no problems playing Mass Effect. And you don't need the disk in the drive to play.

This means that an internet connection IS required to play.  It doesn't matter if its only a few seconds of checking every ten days, the end user shouldn't be bothered to keep tabs of how often they need to connect in order to play the game.  If Spore has the same setup, it too will require an internet connection to play.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: darkwanderer on May 06, 2008, 10:51:32 am
Interitus, this is from further down in the original post by the tech:

Quote
For clarity, though, an internet connection is not required to install, just to activate the first time, and every 10 days after. You can be completely connectionless for 9 days and encounter no problems playing Mass Effect. And you don't need the disk in the drive to play.

This means that an internet connection IS required to play.  It doesn't matter if its only a few seconds of checking every ten days, the end user shouldn't be bothered to keep tabs of how often they need to connect in order to play the game.  If Spore has the same setup, it too will require an internet connection to play.

although to be fair alot of people would use the internet for the whole massively single player thing... but yeah still, this sucks, and if its the case, then im sure most people will crack it.

also seeing as its just a check, it means once the wrapper is removed you can still access the spore network in game, WITHOUT the anoying secure rom drivers installed
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Shadowgandor on May 06, 2008, 10:58:04 am
I personally approve the fact that the game has some hefty Anti-piracy, seeing how I wouldn't be suprised if they would miss more then 50% of the sales because of piracy.

Really? That's a pretty big claim, do you have anything to back that up with?

I said I wouldn't be surprised, not that they would actually miss it. I mean, spore is a pretty  well known game, but a lot of people are unsure of it. What do people do when they are unsure of buying a game and they see a nice 'spore for download' on a torrent site? Would you ignore it? I know I wouldn't.

@Darkdragon
How do you think the pirates could still play the game with a protection like this? I mean, if EA plays their cards right, there's no way they can play this game except by playing it on a private server or something, even though that's still takes away quite a lot of illegal downloads, seeing how not everyone is capable of finding/making a private server.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Rutilant on May 06, 2008, 10:58:53 am
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it's not a recheck every 10 days. It checks the key again after 10 days, it doesn't receck every 10 days. And if it does. I can PROMISE YOU it simply CHECKS. If the key isn't from an illegal site, or a torrent site the game works fine.  If you go on holiday. forget to check it WHATEVER all you need to do is log on, the game doesn't become useless if you don't.

The funny thing is that any pirated copy will have this disabled.


This won't prevent PIRACY in the least. All it takes is a single crack, and Securom protection goes out the window and no longer works.

If you're a PIRATE you never have to deal with Securom because it's disabled the moment you crack the game.

If you're a CONSUMER who doesn't use cracks, then you have to put up with the **** that's supposed to hinder pirates.


That's the problem.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: creiij on May 06, 2008, 10:59:26 am
Jeez people, it sucks for the people who don't have any internet, but how about WoW or Guild Wars and the likes? You can't play those without internet as well and basically, spore is an online game as well.

About the people who go 'whining' about visiting some relatives without internet for 15 days. Oh wow, 5 whooping days without spore 0.o.
I personally approve the fact that the game has some hefty Anti-piracy, seeing how I wouldn't be suprised if they would miss more then 50% of the sales because of piracy.

Also, it is a rumor, as long as it hasn't been acknowledged by EA/Maxis, don't get angry yet.

Well, Will said early in an interview or a video that since the creatures and other data is so compressed they can send a large number of them on a single DVD, making me think they still want people with no internet connection to buy the game. Hence, no SecuROM activation and so on...
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 06, 2008, 11:05:47 am
I personally approve the fact that the game has some hefty Anti-piracy, seeing how I wouldn't be suprised if they would miss more then 50% of the sales because of piracy.

Really? That's a pretty big claim, do you have anything to back that up with?

I said I wouldn't be surprised, not that they would actually miss it. I mean, spore is a pretty  well known game, but a lot of people are unsure of it. What do people do when they are unsure of buying a game and they see a nice 'spore for download' on a torrent site? Would you ignore it? I know I wouldn't.

@Darkdragon
How do you think the pirates could still play the game with a protection like this? I mean, if EA plays their cards right, there's no way they can play this game except by playing it on a private server or something, even though that's still takes away quite a lot of illegal downloads, seeing how not everyone is capable of finding/making a private server.

Pirates crack things, that's what they do, I remember when BioShock came out and there was the SecuROM problem... many customers couldn't play it but eventually the pirates cracked it anyways, no security system is infalible.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Unknown User on May 06, 2008, 11:36:55 am
The funny thing is that any pirated copy will have this disabled.


This won't prevent PIRACY in the least. All it takes is a single crack, and Securom protection goes out the window and no longer works.

If you're a PIRATE you never have to deal with Securom because it's disabled the moment you crack the game.

If you're a CONSUMER who doesn't use cracks, then you have to put up with the **** that's supposed to hinder pirates.


That's the problem.

Exactly.  Pirates will have a download and a simple crack to apply to rid themselves of securom.  It's quick and easy.

Paying consumers have to deal with it, even if it's as simple as logging online once every few days, it's a pain even KNOWING that it's constantly checking to see if my copy is legit.  I feel like I'm being treated as a criminal. 

These things are supposed to hinder pirating the game, but it only hinders the first few who crack it and set it up to download.  And they're usually the kind of people who like the challenge!  Anyone who downloads it after them aren't slowed in the slightest.

Again, it boils down to a business model that establishes greater reward to illegally acquiring the game.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: rob on May 06, 2008, 11:43:32 am
I asked MaxisCactus about SecuROM he said to quote 'I can't comment on SecuROM at the moment, but we're aware of the
concern, and will be sending out new information as it becomes available'.

So just have to wait for info to be sent out now.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Verkinix on May 06, 2008, 11:53:42 am
For me, it is not so much the technology that bugs me. I have no problem with online logins to games. For me, it is the principle of the matter. There is way too much potential for ID theft using systems that "automatically, under the hood" relay information. Now the giant, multibillion dollar company may say, 'oh its fine and dandy, dont pay attention to the man behind the curtain, what you dont know wont hurt you (yet)', but how do we really know what the software is doing? For most users, all they know is that they have this window popping up requiring them to connect to some online server in order for them to play a game they spent money on. And, as was mentioned before, 10 years down the line, they are still enjoying the original game, but the sever has been deactivated. Now what? Either they go to school for 10 years, earn a PhD in computer science, learn to crack the game themselves and continue to play, or end up using it as a coaster and (hopefully if they are wise) stop purchasing products from that company.

For me, the lack of "trust" among from the company is what urks me the most. Ok, so there are pirates. So the pirates dont give you money. What makes you think that adding more security will deter this behavior. They wouldnt purchase the product either way, so you either way you dont have their money. Instead, you've alienated your customer base so many "would be" customers find it better to turn to the dark side. So instead of trying to get more money, you actually end up with less.

Guildwars and WoW are online based games. Spore has been said to not necessarily need to be online game. Meaning it is able to be played without an internet connection. If, suddenly, it becomes and online based game, then that is what needs to be advertised. But further, there needs to be a complex online community where, say, I could play directly in game with my friend and affect his civ as much as he affects mine. There just is no point to a manditory online component if the game is not specifically designed for online play.

Lets take Galactic Civilizations II. You buy it, register your serial once (online, havent tried any other way) and you never have to log on again. This game has almost no piracy that I've read about. Why? Because alot of the "would be" pirates actually want to support that behavior. A quality game, at a decent price, that they can play and redownload all they want. Or the sister game, Sins of a Solar Empire. Same activation. IF you want to play online, THEN you login. Simple. Further GalCivII has a "metaverse" where players can share their galaxies, stats, ship designs, etc with others. Then, obviously, they have to be online. But constant online activation is not necessary to play the game.

EA expects Spore to be it's next "Sims" title. Why not make it available to as wide an audience as possible? And instead of making $1.2B, they make $1.165B (but most likely they will make more then the initial estimates). Most "would be" pirates decide, this is a quality game, and I want to support it. Instead of the usual 'this games security is not worth purchasing so we'll find a cracked version and give the company nothing.' Or people like me who will simply not bother to aquire the product either way because it's not worth the security hassle.

Anyway, I'm beginning to ramble. My point is, you catch more flies with honey then vinegar. Why not try making the game as sweet as possible so those who would try to convert or remove the vinegar will find it better to just go for the honey straight out? Let the game be a game and not a security breech.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: martyk on May 06, 2008, 12:13:19 pm
So why is a Mass effect developer being seen as the final say on this matter?  We were told we wouldn't need to be connected to the internet and frankly, I'm not willing to belive that until it's confirmed by someone who actuallly works for maxis.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: keithn on May 06, 2008, 02:02:59 pm
So why is a Mass effect developer being seen as the final say on this matter?

I'm not sure anyone sees it as the final say.  My comment, for one, was a contingency, an "if-then".  That being said, the technical producer was basing the readiness of the EA servers for its own product in part on EA's plans for Spore.  I'd feel pretty screwed if I were the technical producer and I was so out of the loop that I was wrong on that one.  Things more bizarre than that have happened, though...
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 06, 2008, 02:18:22 pm
That's why I emailed Cactus, still waiting though.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkSkies on May 06, 2008, 02:30:43 pm
When bioshock had the securom feature, look how long it too them to completely remove it when everyone started to complain.

I agree with most of the posts here
Having an account to login to is fine
but having to update the game every 10 days is absurd.

If it is the 10 day enabled crap, Im keeping my $50.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: rob on May 06, 2008, 03:03:21 pm
Just saw this http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/52547

I did contact  MaxisCactus he said (I can't comment on SecuROM at the moment, but we're aware of the concern, and will be sending out new information as it becomes available)

So looks like we will get some info soon.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Cosmosis on May 06, 2008, 03:34:32 pm
Though i can't believe this is true, it unfortunately is: http://www.gamershell.com/news_49954.html

Personally, i'm not too worried about it, cus i know that when i get the game, i will at least play it several times a week until i get tired of it. When that day comes, ten days will pass when i'm not online with spore.

And furthermore, if i reach the ten days, naturally there is gonna be a way to reactivate my account.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Sasha on May 06, 2008, 03:36:16 pm
Guess I'll only be getting the creature Editor and forget about the full game. Thanks, but I'm not rich to buy a Spore box everytime I forget/or I'm unable to, to log on to make sure the game I spent my money on and waited years to get, is still funcionable  ::) >:(


Here comes a massive flop for Spore =]


Sucessor of the Sims, yeah sure.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Yankeefan on May 06, 2008, 04:21:57 pm
Well, here is one lost sale. I live in hurricane central. What happens if a hurricane comes along and knocks out my power for 3 weeks like with Katrina? Oops, gotta buy another copy. This instantly went from a can't wait, must buy to a "when they throw snowballs in Hell" product.

No thanks!
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Bios Revision on May 06, 2008, 04:22:34 pm
Guys, in the Mass Effect thread the Bioware representative says "if there are people having problems with the system as designed, then Support needs to hear about it so they can help us evaluate it for the next game title".

Therefore, I encourage everyone to contact EA Support and complain about the copyright protection on this game.
Even if you don't buy Mass Effect, still complain so they think twice before putting this customer-punishing protection on Spore.

EDIT- Guys, you don't need to buy another copy if you miss the activation window. You just can't play until you get internet access back. That's my understanding, at least.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Sasha on May 06, 2008, 04:29:41 pm
Yes but what about those peoples that cutt off internet acess, permanently? like my world of warcraft friend. he payed two months of the game and played only 15 days, until he had his internet cut off.

I'm not sure but in one of those comments, one of the guys said it costs 35$ to call assistence. I'm not rich. ::)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gungnir on May 06, 2008, 04:30:52 pm
Are we playing the wild assumptions game again? Is there an official word that says that spore will have SecuROM? If not, I'm going to wait until I have an opinion on this.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: 0goober0 on May 06, 2008, 04:32:08 pm
EDIT- Guys, you don't need to buy another copy if you miss the activation window. You just can't play until you get internet access back. That's my understanding, at least.
yea, that's my understanding too. Where does it say anywhere that your account will be deleted if you miss connecting?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Null on May 06, 2008, 04:33:48 pm
This place is over-reaction central on the right now. Do you people contemplate suicide if you have a bad hair day?
It would be incredibly, incredibly  stupid to make anyone buy a new copy if they had not been online for 10 days. Furthermore, it has been said many times that no one would have to be online or have a connection to actually play the game.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Bios Revision on May 06, 2008, 04:38:51 pm
This place is over-reaction central on the right now. Do you people contemplate suicide if you have a bad hair day?
It would be incredibly, incredibly  stupid to make anyone buy a new copy if they had not been online for 10 days. Furthermore, it has been said many times that no one would have to be online or have a connection to actually play the game.


Here, I found the official explanation (for Mass Effect, at least):

Quote
If the system cannot connect to the internet after the 10 days, you will not be able to play [Mass Effect] until you are connected to the internet. Once you reconnect to the internet and try to play, it will re-validate and you can play as normal for another period of 10 days as before.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Null on May 06, 2008, 04:43:46 pm
For mass effect. But remember how spore has a bunch of in-game creatures packaged in it for those who  do not have a connection or choose not to use pollinated content?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Bios Revision on May 06, 2008, 04:45:30 pm
Are we playing the wild assumptions game again? Is there an official word that says that spore will have SecuROM? If not, I'm going to wait until I have an opinion on this.

Especially since it looks like the only time Spore was mentioned in the Mass Effect thread is in regard to initial activation, not the 10 day rule. The other articles mentioning this all go back to that original source.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: xirtap on May 06, 2008, 05:24:35 pm
Jesus what the hell kind of a protection is this? I'll be moving out the time Spore comes and I can't afford internet then. Can't you guys do anything right EA?

Do they seriously think this will prevent piracy?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on May 06, 2008, 05:25:40 pm
I see another stray logic again. Some are being afraid that their spore account will be somewhat disabled if you don't play for 10 days. It's your authentication that will be disabled untill you can connect online, show the disk key to the activation server and then you are on your way again.

Don't give some gaming sites a reason to start boycott of a game because of misinformation.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Jennifer Reitz on May 06, 2008, 05:44:18 pm
SecuRom means 60 dollar arbitrary-duration rentals. That is what it means. It means you can never own a game again.

The issues here have already occurred to others - Microsoft recently pulled their music service, and with the verification servers gone, users who bought music are screwed. Their music is now no longer theirs to listen to.
http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/microsoft-pulli.html (http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/microsoft-pulli.html)

This is the same issue with Spore and SecuRom. Sometime in the future, the instant that EA decides that running the verification server for Spore or Mass Effect is not worth the bother - because the game is old, or because they want to re-release the game, or just because - the game you paid money for is dead. The disk will be useless, and you have just had your property terminated.

You won't be able to go back, to play your old game, because you never really owned it. You never really owned your own creature creations in it, your own time in it, you only rented it. For full price.

SecuRom require authentication every ten days, forever. Forever. Grasp that.

This means that you do not own anything cursed with SecuRom, they do, and they can shut you off at any time. Misfortune can shut you off too, as can travel to somewhere without internet, or loss of internet, or a power outage in their region. Sorry - their power outage is your loss of your game.

SecuRom cannot be tolerated. It cannot.

The meaning here is clear: EA wants you to rent games at full price from them, and they want you tied to them by the internet 24/7. So they can watch you, so they can decide when and what you can play, and when you need to pay them again for the same damn thing.

That is the logical extension of this. 60 bucks to play for as long as they will it, then it is over. But wait! The new edition is coming out! 60 more dollars and you can play again for a while. Just not on holiday, or if your internet is out. Not that blackouts and other issues are going to be a problem in the future - we'll have all those energy problems solved for sure. Really.

Oh, wait, the game is too old now! It's been discontinued. Too bad. All your creations, all your buildings and worlds in Spore? I hope you took screenshots, because now they are gone forever. Your master, EA, says your game is too old for you to play anymore. Sorry.


SecuRom means 60 dollar arbitrary-duration rentals. That is what it means. It means you can never own a game again.

Understand this.

Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gungnir on May 06, 2008, 05:50:17 pm
SecuRom means 60 dollar arbitrary-duration rentals. That is what it means. It means you can never own a game again.

The issues here have already occurred to others - Microsoft recently pulled their music service, and with the verification servers gone, users who bought music are screwed. Their music is now no longer theirs to listen to.
http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/microsoft-pulli.html (http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/microsoft-pulli.html)

This is the same issue with Spore and SecuRom. Sometime in the future, the instant that EA decides that running the verification server for Spore or Mass Effect is not worth the bother - because the game is old, or because they want to re-release the game, or just because - the game you paid money for is dead. The disk will be useless, and you have just had your property terminated.

You won't be able to go back, to play your old game, because you never really owned it. You never really owned your own creature creations in it, your own time in it, you only rented it. For full price.

SecuRom require authentication every ten days, forever. Forever. Grasp that.

This means that you do not own anything cursed with SecuRom, they do, and they can shut you off at any time. Misfortune can shut you off too, as can travel to somewhere without internet, or loss of internet, or a power outage in their region. Sorry - their power outage is your loss of your game.

SecuRom cannot be tolerated. It cannot.

The meaning here is clear: EA wants you to rent games at full price from them, and they want you tied to them by the internet 24/7. So they can watch you, so they can decide when and what you can play, and when you need to pay them again for the same damn thing.

That is the logical extension of this. 60 bucks to play for as long as they will it, then it is over. But wait! The new edition is coming out! 60 more dollars and you can play again for a while. Just not on holiday, or if your internet is out. Not that blackouts and other issues are going to be a problem in the future - we'll have all those energy problems solved for sure. Really.

Oh, wait, the game is too old now! It's been discontinued. Too bad. All your creations, all your buildings and worlds in Spore? I hope you took screenshots, because now they are gone forever. Your master, EA, says your game is too old for you to play anymore. Sorry.


SecuRom means 60 dollar arbitrary-duration rentals. That is what it means. It means you can never own a game again.

Understand this.




Ok, thank you for that. Now, tell me again why exactly you think spore will use securom.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: The Time Traveller on May 06, 2008, 05:56:22 pm
Let me weigh in on this-

Looks like a second "Micropayments" scare to me...
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Null on May 06, 2008, 05:59:31 pm
Quote
Let me weigh in on this-

Looks like a second "Micropayments" scare to me...

I disagree- we had a source that seemed credible at the time seemingly quoting someone representing Maxis then. We have none of that here. We have… um… assumptions... and conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: 0goober0 on May 06, 2008, 06:05:02 pm
Quote
Let me weigh in on this-

Looks like a second "Micropayments" scare to me...

I disagree- we had a source that seemed credible at the time seemingly quoting someone representing Maxis then. We have none of that here. We have… um… assumptions... and conspiracy theories.
wierd how this seems to bother people a whole lot more than micropayments did. I would be more likely to buy the game if i ahd to be on the internet every few days than if i had to pay twice as much money for the game to be good...plus it's strange that everyone's getting so worked up about this when THERE HAS BEEN ABSOLUETLY NO OFFICIAL WORD on this, where as micropayments was addressed, not officially, but it was also a lot close to official than this is.  this is entirely *announcer voice* WILD ASSUMPTIONS. ;)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 06, 2008, 06:14:26 pm
Let me weigh in on this-

Looks like a second "Micropayments" scare to me...

I too hope it is another micropayments scare. But if it isn't and Spore has this so called "SecuRom" then it may be a new age for gaming, a bad age. Look at it this way... If you HAVE to update a games verification code every ten days then your games are as good as real estate. Think of it like this, although you technically own the game, it never really is yours and can be revoked at any time. Just like land or cars. This new initiative, this "SecuRom", could be the greatest scam ever perpitrated on the PC gamer. If Spore does have SecuRom and it does require you to update the verification code every 10 days then... well...who's up for a boycott?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: The Time Traveller on May 06, 2008, 06:28:37 pm
I'm not, considering I already bought it...
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Bios Revision on May 06, 2008, 06:31:23 pm
Quote
If Spore does have SecuRom and it does require you to update the verification code every 10 days then... well...who's up for a boycott?

Well, I'm definitely not buying Mass Effect now.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Jennifer Reitz on May 06, 2008, 07:26:57 pm

Ok, thank you for that. Now, tell me again why exactly you think spore will use securom.

The folks at BioWare are fairly clear, on their forums, that this is a trend that EA is going with. They are clear that EA has gone whole hog into this next form of SecuRom, and that it will be applied to all of their products, including Spore.

I dearly wish that we hear that this is wrong, and that BioWare is wrong. I dearly hope that Spore will be the one EA product that does not use SecuRom.

I want to be able to actually own the things I purchase.

Or rather, I would actually like to be able to play Spore. I won't buy it if it has SecuRom. Like many others.


But I have worked for EA, and this really does sound like something these... filth... would do.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Granite T. Rock on May 06, 2008, 07:38:53 pm
Especially since the game is so focused on the online sharing component it would be easy to link accounts to CD keys.  If they only allow games with accounts to be able to update it certainly makes for a huge incentive not to copy.  That's a huge if.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Null on May 06, 2008, 08:06:04 pm
Quote
The folks at BioWare are fairly clear, on their forums, that this is a trend that EA is going with. They are clear that EA has gone whole hog into this next form of SecuRom, and that it will be applied to all of their products, including Spore.

So...Because EA says there is a trend, therefore each and every game that comes out starting now will incorporate it...


 But this is a logical fallacy. A trend is not a confirmation that this will be incorporated in anything specific, only a promise it will become more common. This does not mean that a specific game will absolutely have this feature or that everything from now on will have this. It means more, but what games and to what degree is impossible to say at this point.

Personally even if this feature is included I will still get the game because both my own house and the entire university have wireless. The limitation will not be a hindrance to me. I do not anticipate any problems even if I do pass the theoretical 10 day limit that no one can confirm is anything more than a wild assumption at this point.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: eropS on May 06, 2008, 08:41:41 pm
Hm, all these people saying 'Well, im not buying it now', will be the people at the midnight opening. And if there is SecuROM, and you have no internet, no offense, but welcome to the 21st century, stop 1: INTERNET IS KING, dur. Heck, all of you talking about 'what about no internet?!' shouldnt be complaining, because you know, your on it right now.

After 500 days, and i havent played spore, guess what, i can just log back on and re-activate and poof, all my stuff is back. Didnt even have to get another copy.

"Up next on Wild Assumptions........... You can only buy Spore Online!!"
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Verkinix on May 06, 2008, 09:12:31 pm
Most of this discussion is geared toward a preemptive strike. EA has been know to pull crap like this for years and they need to know that consumers wont stand for this sort of business practice. My biggest beef isnt with the fact that the game needs to reupdate every 10 days or even that its sending a private, unique serial code through the internet on a regular basis (even though that is just asking for trouble). It's with the fact that EA is trying to "control" everything. They are treating us, the consumers, like property. They are telling us want we want instead of giving us what we want. This is the 21st centry and consumers in general dont stand for this sort of treatment.

The other concern, as mentioned in other posts, is that the game is no longer playable once verification servers are no longer active. It's one thing to do that with an MMO. It's common knowledge that those games can and will end up unplayable after a certain period of time. But to no longer be able to play a single player game is absurd. There just is no reason beyond a gross power trip mentality to have a constant verification system.

As for me, if this system is indeed implemented, EA will be dead in my eyes. The upcoming CnC titles that I would otherwise support would not be purchased. Spore, Sims 3, a few other EA titles I had my eyes on. More then $200 in a single year alone. Thats a fair sum of revenue that per person to be missing out on simply because of avoidable business practices. There are other, better systems to achieve corporate security. EA just needs to start hiring people with some sense of customer satisfaction. Keep customers satisfied, and they will keep coughing up money. Forcing customers into things will only end badly for both sides.

ANYWAY, I'm sure most of you are tired of hearing my rants. I just think its important that EA is shown the potential error of their trends. Quite frankly I dont see the logic or reasoning behind such an intrusive and restricting system aside from controlling the masses. Ultimately, the pirates will have their way, and the genuine consumers will become irritated. In this, there will be very few shades of grey as in past releases. I just hope EA takes a serious look at the folly of this potential way. I greatly hope this system never gets implemented in spore, CnC, or any other titles I am hoping to purchase in the near future. But, to be frank, a required reactivation system will be the deal breaker for me (and a fair number of my friends who spend about the same amounts on games).

At present, I am pretty neutral with EA in terms of positives and negatives. I've had great times with their products as well as major issues with many of their systems (mostly security oddly enough). The CnC games released by EA have been fun, but no where near worth the effort in trying to install and get to install and run properly (not to mention play online!). Sims have caused me great grief over the years due to the way they are set up internally. A few other products I've had similar dealings with. But I still buy their products because the fun factor out weights the annoyances. This new system would tip that scale from which EA will have a hard time recovering from in my sight. My one little opinion may not mean much to EA. But I believe it is valid and blankets a fair number of EA customers. The EA brand is tarnished almost as much as Microsoft and Sony in terms of shady business practices. I would like to see EA become something more then it is. Something respectable in more then simple profit. I want to go to a store, see a product, and not wonder if I will be able to play it in a few years. I want to feel good about my purchases. I want to look at a box and not simply see a bunch of colorful graphics thrown on a box with a brand logo, but rather, see a product that I actually want to purchase and support because the company stands behind it and actually wants me to have fun.

But I digress. I'm tired and I feel my point has been somewhat made. I only hope the EA lurkers actually take what I've said into consideration when it comes time to decide what to do with their products. Copy protection just doesnt need to be so intrusive or invasive. It should make people actually want to buy the product.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: happydan20 on May 06, 2008, 10:10:49 pm
im still hoping this is wrong...

but if they're going to treat me as a pirate ill act like one.  I have every intention of buying it, and i want access to all the online sharing, but im not purposly installing securom on my computer.

I know will wright doesn't make ever decision himself, because he was touting how you wouldn't need internet to play, and now you do.


I dont get why they dont understand this will encourage piracy, because people prefer versions without the dodgy protection, especially if its designed fo xp and is funky on vista for some reason.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: rifteroftime on May 06, 2008, 10:43:47 pm
I'll probably just get a crack on the internet the day it ships (if it ships with Securom). I don't want to put up with any sort of weird security features. This is just ridiculous.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Petike on May 06, 2008, 11:11:28 pm
I think some fans are using the word "boycott" too often, just to scare the publishers.  :P

Come on!
You are all frequent posters on an internet forum, waiting for a game with a heavy online element.
You HAVE an internet connection.

In the worst case, if you are away fom the internet for 14 days, you can't play with Spore for 4 days. So terrible?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Jennifer Reitz on May 06, 2008, 11:51:33 pm
I think some fans are using the word "boycott" too often, just to scare the publishers.  :P

Come on!
You are all frequent posters on an internet forum, waiting for a game with a heavy online element.
You HAVE an internet connection.

In the worst case, if you are away fom the internet for 14 days, you can't play with Spore for 4 days. So terrible?

I will put it simply, so you can finally understand:


With SecuRom, you don't own what you pay for.

When time passes, eventually you will not be allowed to play the game you bought.

That is the issue. Do you grasp this now?

With SecuRom, you don't own what you pay for.

The internet bit is not the issue by itself.

The issue is that, at any time, your game can be made useless, by them. And there is nothing you can do.

That time will come, maybe a few years down the road. They cannot promise to keep the verification going forever.

That means you cannot own your own game, and play it later on. It won't be permitted.

Do you get this now? Does the complaint make sense now?

With SecuRom, you don't own what you pay for.





Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Petike on May 07, 2008, 12:08:12 am
I will put it simply, so you can finally understand:


With electricity, you don't own your TV.

When there is no electricity in your house, eventually you will not be allowed to watch films on the TV you bought.

That is the issue. Do you grasp this now?

With electricity, you don't own your TV.


The issue is that, at any time, your TV can be made useless, by them. And there is nothing you can do.

That time will come, maybe when our civilization ends, or when you won't have money to pay the bills. They cannot promise to keep the system going forever.

That means you cannot own your own TV, and watc it later on. It won't be permitted.

Do you get this now? Does the complaint make sense now?

With electricity, you don't own your TV.

Yeah, it makes much more sense now, let's boycott TVs, and everything else that uses this evil electronic system.  :P

[/metaphore]
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 07, 2008, 12:34:32 am
It's not the same thing, if every TV station went down you could still use your TV as a computer monitor (for example), you don't have to turn on your TV every 10 days so it can keep working either.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: huggkruka on May 07, 2008, 12:39:15 am
That was a silly comparision. If you wanted to, you could hook up solar panels and watch TV all day. I think Reitz is overreacting a bit, but it's still true. If the verification servers shut down, as they will at some point, you can't play Spore anymore. Us tech-savvy guys won't have a problem, some smart person will create a crack so we can play with the content still being created around the world by the hangers-on. Normal people, however, will be screwed.

Here's a theory though: Spore online and Spore offline works as two separate games. In order to play Spore online, you need to reauthenticate every 10 days, with Spore offline you don't. That could work. I'm still against this idea because SecuRom is basically malware which can cripple your computer, but if they use a software which does the check without being as invasive as SR, then it's not so terrible.

Oh and for the last time: YOUR GAME DOES NOT VANISH IF YOU MISS THE TEN DAY CHECK. You just cannot play until you're online again.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Jennifer Reitz on May 07, 2008, 12:40:15 am
Let's look at this SecuRom in perspective, OK?

Imagine SecuRom applied to something other than a game, alright?

How about a SecuRom refrigerator?

If something goes wrong, if there is a power outage far away that affect the SecuRom servers, if enough time passes and your refrigerator is no longer considered 'new enough' to support, suddenly it stops working. You can't get it fixed - the refrigerator is fine. It just won't run, because it no longer is being allowed to run. There is no signal telling it to keep working, so it just stops.

How about a SecuRom Flatscreen television?

Something goes wrong, or it is no longer 'new' and is no longer supported, and your television just stops working. Because it isn't being told that it has permission to work anymore.

SecuRom means not owning what you purchase.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Petike on May 07, 2008, 12:42:21 am
It's not the same thing, if every TV station went down you could still use your TV as a computer monitor (for example), you don't have to turn on your TV every 10 days so it can keep working either.
You can also use the blocked Spore disc as a frizbee  :D

And you don't have to turn it on every 10 days. If you don't turn it on, your account will be suspended. If you turn it on after months, you can still log in:

Mass Effect website (http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=628724&forum=125)
Quote from: Mass Effect staff
Q: What happens if I install and activate Mass Effect with an internet connection, but then do not have an internet connection after 10 days? Can I still play MEPC?

A: No. After 10 days the system needs to re-authenticate via the internet. If you do not have an internet connection you will not be able to play until you are reconnected to the internet and able to re-authenticate.


To the others, about the possibility of stopping the support:
1. It might happen in the VERY FAR future, or if only a few thousand players will remain, around 2020.
But, at this time, when there is no further profit in the game, nothing stops them from turning the whole system off, so we can play without it, or even making the game freeware.

At the Bioware FAQ:
Quote
Q: What happens in the future if I want to play MEPC and EA has shut off the servers?

A: If that should ever happen, BioWare would address this problem.

Afaik, these servers didn't even start running, so we don't know what will they do many years later. Maybe they already have a plan.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on May 07, 2008, 01:46:23 am
I'm just amazed by the amount of paranoia and Demagogy going on here about a copy protection system that require you to be consious about the fact that you actually never fully own a game or software that you buy.

Many people in the "games" universe don't seem to be ready for this concept just yet so it seems just because it has historically been so easy to crack it, use NOCD cracks or just "use my disk drive and check that you are real. So everything that require more steps and awareness from the end user is met by the most negative coments on this forum.

You pay for your phone and you also can't just do things with it to avoid payment right?
If you drive a car, you pay taxes for it, the government knows you by your license plate.

What's so alien and exotic about a company who makes games and who want to check with you if you have a valid copy ? Technically it's not even EA who is doing it. EA buys licenses to install Securom software, and then every aspect of this is handled by the securom servers.
You don't even notice it. (untill it doesn't work, and then there's a support team for it).

Many of you complainers are here from when they showed spore at GDC-05. Now, try to realise that all these years that you have been coming on and off this forums, people have been working and perfecting spore. Is it so far out that they want to protect the game with a copyright protection scheme that isn't crackable from the first day on ?

It's almost as if everyone starts assuming that that they will have elaborate errors that prevent them from running the game. But I notice something that is a bit more fundamentally rooted in the games comunity, which is: a mentality of "i play games so i shouldn't be bothered with anything". Because with starforce: people were complaining that they won't buy a starforce game that destroys everyone's DVD drive. Now, everyone has an excuse not to buy spore because the game checks with an activation server.

Have we become this prudish and terrified, that with every measure of copyright protection we are going to complain that it isn't accepted ? Don't you want to lock your door at night ?

I'm dissapointed :P
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: jarnomiedema on May 07, 2008, 02:24:46 am
Nice.. We have a crappy 'family' PC connected to the internet downstairs that I don't intend to run Spore on ever (writing this message on it as we speak), but my own PC upstairs doesn't have an internet connection. The most important reason for that is that I know that if I do get an internet connection up there, I'd hardly ever go back downstairs or do other things (such as studying)..

I was planning to play Spore upstairs, but now it seems I can't because of this crap.. I was planning to play Spore off-line and download the custom creatures, buildings, vehicles, etc. downstairs and transfer them upstairs without the hassle of using my own PC to sift through the inevitable junk that's going to be made..

If Spore is going to include this, I'm seriously considering not buying it (which is a shame, because I've been around since almost day one)..

EDIT:
I have a personal rule that I use when downloading games illegally. If I play the game for more then 5...or end up complete the game, I will buy it. I downloaded bioshock a few days before it came out, completed the game and went out to buy it at the store. It is still unopen to this day, but at least I know that I support the developers.

I have the same rule. Sins of a Solar Empire hasn't been distributed in Europe yet, so you can't buy it in any store. I downloaded the game to be able to play it and now that I've learned that European distribution is underway, I'll buy it legally the moment I can get my hands on it..
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 07, 2008, 02:43:50 am
@CosmicD - The problem is that IT CAN be cracked.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Zoston on May 07, 2008, 02:52:17 am
http://forums.galciv2.com/303512 (http://forums.galciv2.com/303512)

This thread is good, and I'm happy to see this happening. People should be getting hyped and angry at even the mention of these practices, if every forum acted like this it will ensure EA and others think twice before trying to implement draconian copy protection. I would try and make an argument but Brad Wardell in the link above says it much better and with a lot more authority and first-hand experience then I could. Yes, piracy is bad, yes people getting your products without paying for them is bad. You know what? Welcome to the 21st century! It's understandable that these companies want to stop it, that they want to control things and don't let people get away with using their products without paying for them. But they need to stop. It's hurting their customers, it's hurting the market, and ultimately it's hurting them. These companies are driving the market towards a situation where the producer is a dictator that sets the terms for how the consumer can use their products. Dictatorships are not healthy, letting companies treat every consumer as a potential thief is not healthy. The more vocal people are about not putting up with this, the better.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Paingod on May 07, 2008, 03:51:38 am
So what happens to a legit copy of Spore if someone comes out with a keygen and too many people manage to hit your copy?  Are you locked out and banned from your rightful purchase?

I hear a lot of people saying that Maxis wouldn't do this - but you can bet your bippy EA would.  It's almost like they hate their customers, so this isn't something out of bounds for them.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Petike on May 07, 2008, 05:09:13 am
So what happens to a legit copy of Spore if someone comes out with a keygen and too many people manage to hit your copy?  Are you locked out and banned from your rightful purchase?

I hear a lot of people saying that Maxis wouldn't do this - but you can bet your bippy EA would.  It's almost like they hate their customers, so this isn't something out of bounds for them.
If this would ever happen, it would be the fault of the pirates, not the fault of EA  :P
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: xirtap on May 07, 2008, 05:12:07 am
Let's look at this SecuRom in perspective, OK?

Imagine SecuRom applied to something other than a game, alright?

How about a SecuRom refrigerator?

If something goes wrong, if there is a power outage far away that affect the SecuRom servers, if enough time passes and your refrigerator is no longer considered 'new enough' to support, suddenly it stops working. You can't get it fixed - the refrigerator is fine. It just won't run, because it no longer is being allowed to run. There is no signal telling it to keep working, so it just stops.

How about a SecuRom Flatscreen television?

Something goes wrong, or it is no longer 'new' and is no longer supported, and your television just stops working. Because it isn't being told that it has permission to work anymore.

SecuRom means not owning what you purchase.

Stop comparing a protection scheme to appliances. It doesn't work like that.

If I buy Spore and I move out to a place without internet and I can't afford internet because it might be expensive. Should I not be allowed to play a game I bought that is meant to be a SINGLE player game?

In order to actually play this SINGLE player game I would need to break the law. Is that right? Of course not, but they don't give me any options.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: xirtap on May 07, 2008, 05:13:19 am
So what happens to a legit copy of Spore if someone comes out with a keygen and too many people manage to hit your copy?  Are you locked out and banned from your rightful purchase?

I hear a lot of people saying that Maxis wouldn't do this - but you can bet your bippy EA would.  It's almost like they hate their customers, so this isn't something out of bounds for them.
If this would ever happen, it would be the fault of the pirates, not the fault of EA  :P

Isn't it their fault for making a poor algorithm to verify keys?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on May 07, 2008, 05:20:46 am
@CosmicD - The problem is that IT CAN be cracked.

yes, only if these crackers want half the experience of the game. (namely that they can't publish their worlds and let it be pollinated by friends' stuff. EA/maxis won't sit there and allow these cracked games to participate in the massively offline / social experience / pollination (or will they?) Where are users going to get their actual spore account if they crack the game ?

I can't believe some are so bold to just try to mess with spore servers and create accounts with luck codes, that will work nicely against all these complainers now. Because next, people will have something else to complain about, namely that if this becomes a practice : a next step to counter piracy is that your actual spore account will be taken into the CP activation equasion. (maybe that's fact already, i ofcourse don't know anything about how they technically handle this).

I made clear a first post befor that this isn't the case yet but it might very well be a next step.

I'm not having fun just being a troll here or something, i just notice that the complaints of being somehow being monitored for validity rise exponentially to the stronger measured against anti piracy solutions. and it doesn't seem to matter that people are really having problems with their software or not. It's the "i'm checking you" that has a lot of people on their toes.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: amigang on May 07, 2008, 06:27:17 am
Quote
Let's look at this SecuRom in perspective, OK?

Imagine SecuRom applied to something other than a game, alright?

How about a SecuRom refrigerator?

If something goes wrong, if there is a power outage far away that affect the SecuRom servers, if enough time passes and your refrigerator is no longer considered 'new enough' to support, suddenly it stops working. You can't get it fixed - the refrigerator is fine. It just won't run, because it no longer is being allowed to run. There is no signal telling it to keep working, so it just stops.

How about a SecuRom Flatscreen television?

Something goes wrong, or it is no longer 'new' and is no longer supported, and your television just stops working. Because it isn't being told that it has permission to work anymore.

SecuRom means not owning what you purchase.

Yes but isn't that kind of true in the real world any way, look at video players and Record players, can you still buy stuff? Ok I'm not a big fan of the idea, and I do think they should at least consider to extended the length of time from every 10 days to say once a month that would be a lot fairer or even have an option where if you dont have the internet you have to have the DVD in your drive or maybe phone/txt them for a code.

And I think if in say 10 years time you want to come back to the game they will more than like will have it no longer require to checks and if no, then just hack it, which I also don't see being much of a problem if the company is no longer supporting it.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: leanbarton on May 07, 2008, 06:32:26 am
SecuROM is included with The Sims Pet Stories, The Sims Castaway Stories, The Sims 2 Deluxe, The Sims 2: H&M Fashion Stuff, The Sims 2: Bon Voyage, The Sims 2: Teen Style Stuff and The Sims 2: FreeTime.

So anyone have problems with these? I heard some have had problems with Bon Voyage.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Sigma on May 07, 2008, 06:46:04 am
Meh when I buy spore, if it begins to cause me problems then I will use a crack. I do agree that by doing this EA is probably going to turn off alot of gamers
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: rustybrazenfire on May 07, 2008, 07:41:31 am
I have no problems with SecuROM since I have no intention of playing Spore offline anyway.  It's controversial in the true ownership arena, sure, but that won't stop me from buying it.

Then again, I was an early adopter with Steam and EALink, both of which require Internet validation in order to play games.  I have willing bought DRM'd music before, and would be willing to do so in the future.

Just personal opinion, and not for everyone I know.  I completely support anyone not willing to put up with SecuROM, and there are a few really good reasons to be upset already posted.  I would like to see confirmation of this before anyone takes action (such as writing to complain about it), but I'm not going to nag you if you take up arms on this one. :)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Yannick on May 07, 2008, 07:52:10 am
I don't care for the offline bit, but when I decide to play Spore years from now, and its securom server is down, I'll be pretty pissed.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Lippy on May 07, 2008, 08:01:15 am
If you read the original mass effect thread, the question "What if the validation servers go down years from now?" was answered with, "We'll update the game a final time to remove the SecuROM."  Which makes me laugh, because they're pretty much giving you a "crack" later. 

SecuROM is included with The Sims Pet Stories, The Sims Castaway Stories, The Sims 2 Deluxe, The Sims 2: H&M Fashion Stuff, The Sims 2: Bon Voyage, The Sims 2: Teen Style Stuff and The Sims 2: FreeTime.

This is a new version of SecuROM.  The online checking every 5-10 days with this new version is what people are complaining about.  It requires single player games to have internet connections.

Mass Effect comes out in 3 weeks.  If there is enough of a problem caused by this new version, both with software and tech problems, or people finding that it installs malware and then with the legitimate complaints, calls EA, then they might have to rethink the use of this new version on the rest of their games.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Null on May 07, 2008, 08:47:35 am
...

the truth is you never really own anything. You can be knocked out of your house if a government road project decides to build a new highway through your kitchen. You never truly own a CD, garden plant or appliance because everything is patented. If you don’t pay for your electricity or water it will be shut off. And if you want to build a swimming pool in your backyard you need a permit first. You don’t really own anything anyways.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Techleo on May 07, 2008, 09:37:32 am
   I guess they pretty much confirmed they plan to use this software so I just set a portion of my harddrive aside as a partition to deal with the malware, safe clean and effective. :) Honestly I dont any of this will be a issue in the long run for spore. Although I think they should have done what Galactic Civ did. NO SECURITY! Well none to speak of.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Sadisticfaction on May 07, 2008, 09:43:06 am
I am overall very displeased, and am of the opinion that 21st century gaming puts a demand on positive consumer-producer relations. :) I am very glad that Mass Effect will act like a Guinea pig for reactions from consumers.
Unless it's on page 3, I've yet to see any official word from the developers, which there was some mention of due to someone sending over an email. Looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Petike on May 07, 2008, 10:05:36 am
I am overall very displeased, and am of the opinion that 21st century gaming puts a demand on positive consumer-producer relations. :) I am very glad that Mass Effect will act like a Guinea pig for reactions from consumers.
Yeah, if it won't work for Mass Effect, it is good for us, because it wont be used for Spore.

If it will work well for Mass Effect, it is good for us, because it will work well with Spore too.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: nurizeko on May 07, 2008, 10:37:00 am
Hah, sorry to say it, I know some of you think its cool to give EA the benefit of the doubt, but I've been waiting for EA to cock it up, I was hoping they wouldn't they they will.

I refuse to deal with copy protection because its basically an endless history of punishing legitimate customers while pirates laugh their asses off with illegal un-copy protection greif copies, and it only helps to push more folk to illegal copying.

In short looks like I wont be breaking my boycott of EA games after all.



Ironic, PC game devs bitch and bitch about the evils of piracy and how its the greatest threat to the world since global bull****, sorry, warming, and then they nail their own coffins shut with extremely moronic and un thought out copy protection schemes.


I was getting bored with the idea of Spore just from the wait alone, now this?....thanks but, pass.

I have a habit of playing games intensely then not playing for ages. theres plenty of games I play then ignore for months if not over a year in some rare cases then go back to play.

I am not the grazer type of gamer, who slowly and steadily continues to munch on one title year after year after year, I am a binge and starve gamer, I play a game intensely for a few weeks to a month then I ignore it completely for months.

Luckily for me my internet is always on, but theres probably many players like me who don't have constant internet access, many like me might not even touch their computer for weeks.




Quote
I am in no way condoning piracy. I purchase all of my games legit. Especially being a primary PC gamer, I have to support the PC industry as much as possible in order to continue to get quality games for the platform. Nothing like a shiny new box and booklet!

Likewise, hence why I boycott games that have copy protection, and I boycott EA because, well its EA.



Bah I'm about ready to move over to Xbox gaming anyway, I have the spare cash for a console, some accessories and a few games. I know that EA has a large stake in console gaming, but whatever, I'll still have a more enjoyable experience even without their games, though bad company looks cool....


Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Petike on May 07, 2008, 10:44:35 am
I am not the grazer type of gamer, who slowly and steadily continues to munch on one title year after year after year, I am a binge and starve gamer, I play a game intensely for a few weeks to a month then I ignore it completely for months.
You can do that with SecuROM.



Mass Effect website (http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=628724&forum=125)
Quote from: Mass Effect staff
Q: What happens if I install and activate Mass Effect with an internet connection, but then do not have an internet connection after 10 days? Can I still play MEPC?

A: No. After 10 days the system needs to re-authenticate via the internet. If you do not have an internet connection you will not be able to play until you are reconnected to the internet and able to re-authenticate.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Techleo on May 07, 2008, 12:02:21 pm
 Well after digging around on the internet for a bit it seems EA is going to have some VERY unhappy campers in the Spore community. It should be noted EA isnt going to listen though. They already use similar system on The Sims 2 expansions and they make there milllions. Im not entirely sure what Im going to do. I already am used to SecuRom. So for me its a moot point. For the others... Eppp.. sure hope you can find a hacked version ;D
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Dauntless on May 07, 2008, 12:04:36 pm
Quote from: Mass Effect staff
A: No. After 10 days the system needs to re-authenticate via the internet. If you do not have an internet connection you will not be able to play until you are reconnected to the internet and able to re-authenticate.

Thats pathetic. I have constant internet access, so its not a problem to me, but for the amount they'll protect against piracy (very little because as soon as new copy protection is made, somebody is there already trying to hack it), they'll actually lose money by alienating people who dont have internet access

I really hope they abandon this for Spore. If EA want to make more money, they wouldn't cut people off like this

EDIT

Does this also mean that if you install the game on two computers at home, then the game will have a raging rant at you and de-activate?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Jennifer Reitz on May 07, 2008, 12:22:54 pm
...

the truth is you never really own anything. You can be knocked out of your house if a government road project decides to build a new highway through your kitchen. You never truly own a CD, garden plant or appliance because everything is patented. If you don’t pay for your electricity or water it will be shut off. And if you want to build a swimming pool in your backyard you need a permit first. You don’t really own anything anyways.


You are excusing draconian copy-protection on the grounds that, abstractly, we are all completely powerless slaves to an elite, and cannot expect to ever have or own anything. That we exist only at the permission of those more powerful than ourselves.

Can you hear yourself? When did you just give up and start thinking of yourself as the property of others? That's a slave mentality.

Stop it.

Yes, you CAN own things. You can own your CD player, and if you want to, you can do whatever you want with it. Play it, sell it, smash it with a hammer - it's yours. It belongs to you. You are an OWNER.

I own thousands of pieces of software. I have one of the largest collections in North America. I own my many boxes of games. I can do what I want with them. I can play them - they still run, by the way. I can sell them (if I wanted to) to another collector. I could bash them to pieces with a hammer. They are mine. They belong to me. I am an OWNER.

I am not a slave. I can own things. You can own things. Stop rationalizing their evil.

SecuRom ends that ownership. SecuRom does make you a slave. It makes you a slave to others who can shut down what you bought fair and square. Maybe someday they just might let you own it, with a patch, maybe not (like Microsoft's music service). Either way, you can only use your property if your machine begs them on your behalf, once every ten days. Begs them for the right to use your lawfully purchased property. I don't beg. Do you?

It is wrong to have to beg. Because we are NOT slaves. We CAN own things, and we MUST fight to keep the right to own what we purchase.

The can use a dongle. They can use a code-wheel. They can use any non-invasive disk-based copy protection they want.

But they cannot use SecuRom that binds itself dangerously to the rootkit, and then begs permission to play every ten days, forever.

That is wrong. That is just utterly wrong. It cannot be accepted. It must be fought.

Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Lurker28 on May 07, 2008, 12:41:44 pm
I don't really care, I have always had an internet connection. Also, I am not going to freak the hell out if I do not have the game in hand.

I would prefer the way that Sins of the Solar empire has done things, however with so much pirating sometimes people believe extreme measures must be taken. The real people to blame is not the companies trying to protect the millions of invested dollars, but the people who are trying to steal it.

Think about it, if an random item in your house was stolen everyday wouldn't you get a better security system for you house. No matter if they are friend or foe the security system is still going to go off if they try to come in your house. Bottomline, it is a reaction to the mass pirating that is going on right now. I remember when Crysis and Oblivion were both launch online. At any given point for the first week there were over 10,000 people leeching and 3-4,000 people seeding. There were probably hundreds of thousands of people that downloaded those games finished them and never payed for them....literally millions of dollars down the drain possibly causing some of the smaller developers to shut down and the employees loose their job.

As an animator myself, I have many friends who have lost their job in a very similar manner over the years. It is hard on me to know that it really does effect people not just the large conglomerate companies.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Sadisticfaction on May 07, 2008, 12:43:37 pm
I should add I am disgruntled at a logic of practise by SR that is inherently flawed: Their logic is that should they ever go down, they'll give ample time for a last-moment patch wherefrom no further updates are necessary. I'll play Spore for six years on and off, until it finds a shelf. But if SR goes down in 20 years, and I want to play Spore on an XP-Vista emulator in 2035, it would be rather dissatisfactory to not be able to run the game. :) It is the principle of this that Reitz is rather vigorously propheting - that through this logic, it is up to someone else to decide if we are to keep around what we perfectly legally bought.
This was just my opinion though (and maybe it clarifies the issue to some!), and I don't mean more by it. I do hope the people behind Spore will look at the thread and... hm, I wonder what the developers' take on the issue is? That'd be interesting to hear, if only for trivia.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: creiij on May 07, 2008, 12:51:23 pm
Quote from: Mass Effect staff
A: No. After 10 days the system needs to re-authenticate via the internet. If you do not have an internet connection you will not be able to play until you are reconnected to the internet and able to re-authenticate.

Thats pathetic. I have constant internet access, so its not a problem to me, but for the amount they'll protect against piracy (very little because as soon as new copy protection is made, somebody is there already trying to hack it), they'll actually lose money by alienating people who dont have internet access

I really hope they abandon this for Spore. If EA want to make more money, they wouldn't cut people off like this

EDIT

Does this also mean that if you install the game on two computers at home, then the game will have a raging rant at you and de-activate?

I sure hope not because I plan on installing it on three computers, mine, fiances and my laptop, of course she and I can't play at the same time but I'm still going to show her the game and if she likes it, I'll buy another copy.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: martyk on May 07, 2008, 12:57:07 pm
These kinds of security mesures baffle me and frankly, I think they are retarded.  I know it's been said but still, all it does is inconvenience those who actually buy the game, while those who download it will be able to get around it with a crack within the first week.

I don't think this will go through.  It'll be changed.  Either way, I'm still gonna be out there buying Spore at midnight of Septermber 6th.  I've waited for this game for two and a half years and this is not gonna stop me.

But seriously, I absolutley despise these hardcore protection schemes.  Splinter Cell took me a friggin' 2 hours to get running after I installed it while, had I downloaded it, I have no doubt I would've been happily strangling people from around corners by that point, but I digress...
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Verkinix on May 07, 2008, 01:23:48 pm
Quote
I sure hope not because I plan on installing it on three computers, mine, fiances and my laptop, of course she and I can't play at the same time but I'm still going to show her the game and if she likes it, I'll buy another copy.

See, there in lies the problem. How does EA's servers know that the single serial is being used by more then one machine? Well, it must send machine specific data over the internet and there by creating potential security holes for the users. Bottom line, I dont want the security of my machine violated by some corporate giant that has proven in the past to have little regard for their customers well being at the cost of profit.

This IS EA we are talking about after all. They were the same company that has repackaged almost all of their products in different forms in hopes that consumers will purchase things twice and there in gaining more revenue then they should. Further, offering little support in the way of the older products. Take CnC TFD for example. Most of those servers are shut down now and the older games in that package are unplayable online. Granted the older servers were maintained by westwood which is no longer in existance, thanks to EA. Now this is fine as the older games have made way for the newer games. BUT, the older games dont send machine specific data across the internet at the expense of the users security.

I dont care how "secure" they say their system is. Ultimately, it is all data travelling across the lines. Any of which could be intercepted at any given time. Even using online banking and CC use, I take extra precautions to ensure that, in the event some security is violated, I will be able to recover quickly. With a system like this, your unique machine signature (I am assuming at this point but it makes sense in order to track where the serial code is coming from) or your windows ID is being thrown out there for whoever finds it.

It's just the human shield mentality with EA (and MS and other pre 21st centry companies). Throw the masses in the way so they can protect their own hides. Violate the consumers security in order to protect their own. Which, ultimately, wont even happen.

Anyway, back to the quote above, installing the game on multiple machines will more then likely result in EA's servers detecting multiple logins and they will freeze the account. Maybe not off of 2 or 3 copies, but say you install a new hard drive, RAM, or you buy a new computer all together and it changes the unique code being sent. The system detects this and you are out the game you purchased. A very real situation that would be greatly hindered by a system like this.

Or, say you install the game on a friends computer, because you want to show them how cool it is in order to encourage them to buy a copy. Well, the game no longer works due to multiple signatures on the same serial. Your friend decides its too much hassle for the entertainment value of the game. So now EA is out that would be potential copy.

To be honest, if it wasnt EA, I wouldnt be so wary. But EA has pulled crap like this for years. Coming out with security measures that directly negatively affect the consumers. If, say stardock did the same, I would still make a stink about it, but not nearly to the same degree. And I am confident that stardock reps would actually listen to what I have to say and take things into consideration. Where, with EA, most suggestions fall on deaf ears.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: rustybrazenfire on May 07, 2008, 01:35:08 pm
Question - my limited reading suggests that SecuROM has something to do with copy protecting a CD or DVD.  I've been led to believe that Spore will also be available through EA's download service (EA Link).  If I were to purchase the game through said service, would there be a need for SecuROM, and do you think it would still be present?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Ultramarine on May 07, 2008, 01:47:15 pm
Not really, but you forget that the creature editor will be available for download not the whole game.
Still, for something like the creature editor or any other hardware based downloads I see no reason why they should have this pesky SecuROM program in action.
I general I consider this SecuROM crap is blasphemy, it shouldn't even exist. I mean REALLY how does it help with copyright issues (I know the argument of it I'm just saying), if anything if this does go according to plan by EA eventually (soon after the release I hope) this feature will be removed. But putting it out in the first place is just stupid in general; it stave's off the people lacking internet connection. I know small population of which have that but still leaving consumers without an internet connection is just plain arbitrary and pointless. Screw Copyright, I want Spore the way it was without all these rules and useless add-ons >:(.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Lippy on May 07, 2008, 01:49:35 pm
See, there in lies the problem. How does EA's servers know that the single serial is being used by more then one machine? Well, it must send machine specific data over the internet and there by creating potential security holes for the users. Bottom line, I dont want the security of my machine violated by some corporate giant that has proven in the past to have little regard for their customers well being at the cost of profit.

Perhaps you should read the end user license before agreeing to it when you install the game. 

http://files.ea.com/downloads/commerce/eula/en/eula.pdf

Quote from: EA EULA
4. Consent to Use of Data. You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system and application software and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online play. EA may also use this information in the aggregate, and in a form which does not personally identify you, to improve our products and services. IF YOU DO NOT WANT EA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE, TRANSMIT OR DISPLAY THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL OR USE THE SOFTWARE.
 
The CAPS are theirs. 

Question - my limited reading suggests that SecuROM has something to do with copy protecting a CD or DVD.  I've been led to believe that Spore will also be available through EA's download service (EA Link).  If I were to purchase the game through said service, would there be a need for SecuROM, and do you think it would still be present?
Yes it would.  One of the features of this version of SecuROM is that you don't need the CD in the drive to play the game.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: eropS on May 07, 2008, 02:52:29 pm
^

Ownage.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gorman Conall on May 07, 2008, 03:22:05 pm
If we didn't have so many online thieves (yes pirating IS stealing) we wouldn't even have this problem.

You all can claim you won't buy it all you want. Me? I'm going to buy it and enjoy it and let you all envy me  :).


Anyways Will Wright said you do not need an internet connection to play this game and i myself believe him. So until we have some proof I'm just going to ignore it like every other stupid scare that made people to pretend they were going to boycott the game.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on May 07, 2008, 03:42:58 pm
securom comes in many flavours. I thought Crysis is like that too. I don't have it on disk, I have it on EA download manager.  So it uses some non-disk CP protection, also with a license activation I believe.

THe same was true for trackmania united, you needed to activate it once using the software. (it's gone with tm Forever though).

So won't EA lift this protection scheme when the game is a bit older ? I've seen others do that too, especially ravensoft, id, etc.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: martyk on May 07, 2008, 04:20:04 pm
If we didn't have so many online thieves (yes pirating IS stealing) we wouldn't even have this problem.

While I'll admit I do that now and then, it's usually just to try out the game and if it's good, I'll buy it.

You all can claim you won't buy it all you want. Me? I'm going to buy it and enjoy it and let you all envy me  :).

As shall I, and we shall be among the few who are able to look past bad security desicions and enjoy an awesome game.

Anyways Will Wright said you do not need an internet connection to play this game and i myself believe him. So until we have some proof I'm just going to ignore it like every other stupid scare that made people to pretend they were going to boycott the game.

Hear, hear!
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Creature963 on May 07, 2008, 05:15:38 pm
Ooh, I'm not going to pay $50 so I can rent a damn game.

Pirated version, here I come!
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Sasha on May 07, 2008, 05:16:21 pm
Yes, and when you find yourself without internet acess, for whatever reason, I want to see all that joy..
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Verkinix on May 07, 2008, 05:57:42 pm
Quote from: EA EULA
4. Consent to Use of Data. You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system and application software and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online play. EA may also use this information in the aggregate, and in a form which does not personally identify you, to improve our products and services. IF YOU DO NOT WANT EA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE, TRANSMIT OR DISPLAY THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL OR USE THE SOFTWARE.
 

Thats exactly what I'm talking about. So, you've purchased the product before you were able to read the PDF of the license agreement. You open the box, begin to install the game, and you have the 'I agree' button before you. Oh, there is this clause, IF YOU DO NOT WANT EA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE, TRANSMIT OR DISPLAY THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL OR USE THE SOFTWARE. Oh, well I shouldnt install this, but now I've already spent my $50 and opened the box. Crap, now I'm screwed. Thanks alot EA.

The previous was simply how others may go through the motions. Not necessarily what I would do as I research everything I buy in depth.

My point is that they get their fancy lawyers to come up with things that give EA power over their customers. This is nothing more then an attempt at control. It is not needed and should in fact be illegal as it infringes on a persons privacy. No one here would put up with a CEO of a company coming over to their house and start rummaging through bank statements even if they had given permission to do so through some small clause in a statement signed in haste for something unrelated.

Anyway, I just want to see Spore as a game, not a piece of property that I ultimately end up "renting". I'm all for companies making a profit, but not at the expense of the customers trust. This clearly shows that EA doesnt trust its customers. In reality the majority of Spore customers are computer novices that dont post a piracy threat anyway. So I just dont see the need for this intrustive security.

If the game doesnt have this 'login every XX days to renew subscription' system, I will be more then happy to support Spore. I will probably buy several copies and give them out as gifts. I'll more then likely buy every expansion released for it. It will be my 'dream' game then. But with this security, the 'dream' is shattered and I will be forced to just not support it. I wont buy it, I wont play it, I wont even read about it. Further I will deter unsuspecting victims from purchasing it as well by writing specific reviews across many consumer retailer sites. People should know what they are getting themselves into.

I just want Spore to be all it can be without resorting to typical EA game ruining tactics. That is why I've been voicing my views in this thread as opposed to various other threads. It's just an unnecessary system that wont gain any more revenue then it would without it. In all reality, it will gain less because of the people it will ultimately infringe upon. The hackers will still have their way and will be playing regardless of what security is put into place. The general consumer base will have many interesting reviews to read on various retail sites. And those who can live without the game wont be donating their hard earned funds to the corporate behemoth that treats its customers like cattle.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: eropS on May 07, 2008, 07:02:26 pm
Pirated version, here I come!

50,000$ Fine, here you come!

Seriously, who is dull minded enough to yell out, "HEI U GUYZ, IM GONNA PIRATEZ THIEZ GAME!!!1one112!"

Oh, and to the post above; You know the EULA is pretty much the same, all the time right? So its not like the Spore EULA will have a surprise in it, so that arguement of "I bought spore but dont agree to the EULA, darn...." Oh, and check some other games you own, im sure it has the same clause, so why dont you just uninstall those to?

Why should EA trust its customers? Please, enlighten me what we have done to earn any corporations trust.

If this is your 'dream game' and its shattered over a security that
A) Isnt even confirmed!
B) Affects you in no way at all, becuase you know, you have internet.
C) Im sure if they did end up shutting down the server, they would do what MAss Effect is doing and just undo the SecuROM.

And to your 'I wont be donating to a behemoth that treats its customers like cattle'; Um, what? If you live in America, this isnt the most oddball or intruive or radical thing out there...
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Lippy on May 07, 2008, 07:05:29 pm
Quote from: Verkinix
Oh, well I shouldnt install this, but now I've already spent my $50 and opened the box. Crap, now I'm screwed. Thanks alot EA.

Theoretically, you should be able to get your money back directly from EA if you send back the game with your receipt along with a note saying you don't accept the license.  Of course I know of no precedent for it.   ;D

Quote from: Verkinix
If the game doesnt have this 'login every XX days to renew subscription' system, I will be more then happy to support Spore. People should know what they are getting themselves into.

The system (as described by the techs on the bioware forums) should be invisible to the user, without using malware.  You should only need to enter your serial code once at install, and as long as you're connected to the internet, you just run the game, and it does it's server check before the game starts.  They also stated that they will clearly mark on Mass Effect that an internet connection is required to play.  All concerns about the possible problems were addressed by the techs, except for the concern about the people without internet. 

Quote from: Verkinix
That is why I've been voicing my views in this thread as opposed to various other threads.

Why bother voicing them here?  It won't change anything.  If people want things to change they need e-mail, call, or write to EA and voice their misgivings with them personally. 

It's too late for Mass Effect.  If there are problems at launch or during the first few weeks due to SecuROM, they will get a lot of serious complaints and hate mail, and they will have to seriously address the issue.  They'll probably also use it on the Creature Creator Complete, so they'll get to test it there as well. 
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: leanbarton on May 07, 2008, 09:08:17 pm
I just won't buy the game, that'll show EA.

LOL, not, I'm getting it no matter what. And frankly, I'm not so worried. I don't have the energy for wild guesses on securom.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Flak on May 08, 2008, 12:47:09 am
Wow, way to ruin a good thing.

Horrendous news.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gorman Conall on May 08, 2008, 01:12:00 am
Ooh, I'm not going to pay $50 so I can rent a damn game.

Pirated version, here I come!

/Face Palm.

If you do you are part of the problem.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gauphastus on May 08, 2008, 01:55:51 am
Whatever. Maxis or whoever better cough up a statement real quick. This crap is all over the internet by now.

If they're timely enough, they could come out of this looking like heroes.
"No way we're using that sort of piracy protection. We don't believe such measures are necessary as we have complete confidence in Spore.. blah blah."

Sure, why not?
They get a bit of buzz about Spore, people heading for the fence have faith renewed seeing that they were wrong after all.. and there you have some very roundabout viral.


Could be!
If you wanna be the conspiracy theorist sort.


EDIT: Yeah, come on.
I'll bet (nothing at all) that they come out after this bad news sinks in and deny any use of SecuROM in such a way.
That guy on the Mass Effect forum was told to make that totally random side mention about Spore using a similar setup. Mass Effect may lose the security later on "due to so many complaints". As for Spore, EA/Maxis folks will state that they don't want to do that to us, making themselves look great.
Experimental viral?
I don't care. I'm sleep deprived and bored. And not very serious about it either, so please don't pitch a fit for Christ's sake.

Also, made you look.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Flak on May 08, 2008, 02:04:00 am
I do hope it's only rumor, because this is incredibly disappointing. I'm so happy I didn't preorder.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: sjon on May 08, 2008, 02:22:19 am
If your anti-piracy measures are actively causing people to pirate rather than buy your product, you are doing something wrong.

Funny, I was just thinking about all those people in the past year(s) who asked if spore would require an internet connection. And the more knowledgeable people would explain again and again and again that it was obvious spore was going to be an offline game and any online components were optional.

Guess we were all wrong.  :-\

It's scary to see just how far such companies are willing to restrict people in using their own purchased products, just because they can. Unless people take a stand against such restrictions this will only be the beginning. In only a few years we will be having the exact same discussions as now, except it will be about how playing back movies on tv from the movie player (uhd probably) requires an internet connection. And how the new piracy measures prevent you from playing your movies on any player except the one you first put your disc in. And maybe how you don't "buy" movies, you only buy the license to playback a movie a certain number of times.

And we'll still have people arguing how piracy is somehow stealing and such measures are somehow for the greater good.

I really hope they change their mind about the copy protection scheme. It may still be just a rumor, or it might be dropped as starforce protection got dumped a few years back. Maybe they even deliberately spread this rumor to see how the communities would react. But I don't see this getting any better with time, regardless of this being true or not.

new restrictive copy protection reduces "piracy"            ---> See, it works! We must add more limiting drm-infested protection to our software!
new restrictive copy protection does not reduce "piracy" ---> See, they are stealing our games! We must add more limiting drm-infested protection to our software!

Rinse, repeat. And whenever any software/movie/music company has produced some bad products, this piracy thing can still be blamed. "We lost 200 gazillion made-up dollars this fiscal year due to piracy! It wasn't us, poor management, bad products, it was them! Add fingerprint and iris scan requirements to our products, that will make people buy our products..."
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Jennifer Reitz on May 08, 2008, 02:42:00 am
This is a very good place to voice our complaints.

We know that they read these forums. Indeed the Spore team even made versions of the creatures of some of the people here.

This forum is read by the Spore team, likely by Maxis in general, and possibly by some suits at EA.

This forum does have influence, as do a few others. Very likely more influence than any attempt to contact EA directly. EA is not known for listening through normal channels. Almost ever, really. Perhaps only back when the company first started. Not now.

Notice that we have no official word yet. That speaks volumes.

Let your dissatisfaction be heard here, and on the other Spore forums.

If there is no official word yet, then that means they are considering. There is likely some serious talks going on right now, behind the scenes about all of this. This is the place, and this is the time. If you care, make yourselves clear about this matter, now, and here.

I have this to say: I support proper copy protection. But demanding constant and ongoing permission over the internet is not proper or acceptable. Anything else, I say fine, so long as it does not mess with the rootkit of the machine.

If they want to do a dongle, a code wheel, any standard disk-based protection, demand that the disk be in the drive at all times, require serial numbers and even ask questions, fine.

I just do not support anything that amounts to renting a game for full price, a game that can be shut down, and shut off, at any moment, by neglect or by corporate decision. I do not support this version of SecuRom.

Tell them you do not either. If we can let them know that this is a serious enough issue, they just might be willing to work with us.

And if that happens, it will stop what I see as a building internet backlash against Spore and Mass Effect. I don't want this to get out of hand, and it is, and that can be stopped easily - by letting Maxis, and Will, and the Spore team, and EA know that SecuRom, as it stands, is not acceptable.

And all they have to do is release an official statement saying that 'the rumor about such invasive DRM measures was utterly incorrect, and just an internet rumor that never should have gotten started. Spore will not use SecuRom, but will use another form of protection".

They save face, they don't even have to admit we had any say at all, the suits look good, we look silly (which is always good for the egos of the suits) and the whole fuss just goes away, and everybody wins.

So speak out, so they understand this is serious, and hope for a wonderful official statement akin to what I suggest above.

These are my thoughts. This would end the problem, for everyone.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gil on May 08, 2008, 02:59:02 am
Toroca from Simhoni (http://www.simphoni.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=15490&hl=) created a petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/sporecpy/petition.html) against spore and securom. Sign the petition!
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: SBD on May 08, 2008, 03:58:30 am
C'mon people, including mine, the petition only has four signatures! Everyone, sign!
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on May 08, 2008, 05:12:18 am
I don't want to say "all these who complain the loudest about C/P are the ones who feel their freedom to crack is being taken away" but some comments here make me do it :P
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 08, 2008, 07:24:50 am
I don't want to say "all these who complain the loudest about C/P are the ones who feel their freedom to crack is being taken away" but some comments here make me do it :P

One thing is to crack something, other is to apply a crack... Now get my point, someone WILL make a crack for it. I couldn't care less about the crack because I'm buying the game, but I'd like to play it even if I don't have an internet connection for 10 days and if the crack let's me do just that then I guess I'll be switching between the crack and the normal exe a lot.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Henqix on May 08, 2008, 08:25:42 am
Toroca from Simhoni (http://www.simphoni.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=15490&hl=) created a petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/sporecpy/petition.html) against spore and securom. Sign the petition!

Signed.

I don't want to say "all these who complain the loudest about C/P are the ones who feel their freedom to crack is being taken away" but some comments here make me do it :P
No ones freedom to crack is being taken away, pirates wont be affected in any way by this.


Here is a good article on the subject. http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1645 (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1645)
And heres some clarification on how the system works http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1651 (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1651)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on May 08, 2008, 08:26:45 am
well yes, I have my share of nocd cracks, of games i legally own, it's better than to install all these 6 cd's again. But if it wouldn't work, I'd maybe frown for a few seconds but leave it be.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Nazzul on May 08, 2008, 08:45:57 am
This is just great. I sure do hope that these issues are going to be resolved by the time the creature editor is released.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Null on May 08, 2008, 09:06:00 am
You know what they say about rumors: they are always true. Because a rumor is true dont wait around to get real confirmation. Just go.

For the rest of us...
Lests start some more useless baseless rumors!

Spore will have advertising animals in it like pepsi cans (no coke)

10% of all the revenue of this game goes to terrorists.

The church will boycott this game and make it a motal sin to play it.

Shall I start the petitions? Whoever overracts and screams the loudest gets a cookie. Because people need to know.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Nazzul on May 08, 2008, 09:14:13 am
You know what assumptions do to a person?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Enoch on May 08, 2008, 09:37:35 am
Toroca from Simhoni (http://www.simphoni.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=15490&hl=) created a petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/sporecpy/petition.html) against spore and securom. Sign the petition!

Signed.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Behumat on May 08, 2008, 09:41:04 am
I have my internet connection going all the time, so its really not a big deal to me, and I imagine that it only takes a second for the program to login and reinitialize. But I figure, if it does become a problem, I'll just download the crack that some smarty pants is bound to think up. I mean, hey, its my legally purchased copy, so why not?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Verkinix on May 08, 2008, 09:55:29 am
Well, so it is still in rumor phase. But, if even a hair of whats in the rumor is true, then we, the legitimate customers, are in trouble. See, this is only the first segment of what a company like EA will try to get away with. It will start off as "harmless" as phoning into a server every few days. Once people get used to that idea, then they will start to impose further restrictive measures. Things like, constant fees in order to play the single player game, polling specific computer data that violates it's security, or even as far as to require your social security number in order to play (the last one is far fetched, but I wouldnt hold it past EA to try).

Anyway, I am not worried about the security of my own machine. It is the machines of users who know very little about how the computer works. There should be full disclosure on what EA's system would poll.

And I have other systems on my computer that have limited subscriptions. Like my AV/Firewall software. I am allowed to install it on 3 machines. I am also required to pay for it each year. Again, fine, I knew what I was buying when I bought it. It provides a service that keeps the rest of my system 'safe'. With that, I am allowed to deactivate a registered computer/configuration and attach a new one to it. It also doesnt check to see if my subscription is valid constantly. It simply checks when it updates and I can set that timer. It works well.

But Spore is a game. It provides no service apart from mild entertainment value. So why is it being treated as the fort knox of software? And if it would deter the so called pirates from their natural tendencies, I would have less to say about it.

But the pirates are either going to pirate or not buy the product. There is no revenue coming from that sector.

The 'would be' pirates and now inclined to avoid such security measures and simply find one thats already been cracked. Ordinarily they would buy the product if the quality was good and the security didnt infringe on the security of their computer. These two groups are small. Far smaller then the potential overall business of the product.

Then there are those who would buy the product if it didnt have outrageous security. I fall into this group. So there are 2/3 groups that revenue would be coming from that arent.

Finally there is the 'ever buy' group. This is by far the largest group. They are going to buy the product regardless of security. A few may feel a little put off by the security system that phones in every week and a half, but for the most part this is the cash cow.

I should add that many of the latter group are those without internet access. Maybe they have dialup that they pay per login. Why would they want to pay a buck each time they log on, just to update their SP game?

Anyway, lets give arbitrary numbers to these groups. Lets say 1% are pirates, 4% are "would be" pirates, 25% are "would buy" consumers, and finally the last 70% are "ever buys". And lets say 20% of the "ever buys" dont have dedicated internet. So out of the potential 100% playing the game, only half are content with the system. 20% may attempt to get their money back. 25% would have purchased it but didnt want the hassle or security breech of the security software. 4% would have purchased it, but are playing it anyway because they didnt want to deal with the security. And the usual 1% that have the know how and unethical mentality to not pay for, as well as, provide cracked versions of the game to the rest are laughing because the security meant to keep them out is only annoying the rest of the legitimate consumers, as well as the fact that the company is losing potential money to those who were detered from the security system in the first place.

Now those were just arbitrary numbers, but I doubt piracy in general is much more then that. It's just not a significant figure and generally remains constant. No one can log into the online portion of the content without a valid serial anyway, so the pirates are going to be getting that stuff anyway. Why not perform the serial check then? And not limit those who wish to play offline do so without being harrassed to login.

Further, 1% of 1Billion dollars is significant, but not more so then 30% or even 20%. It just seems like simple logic to me. Perhaps I am missing something totally. But the way I see it is, 99% of all Spore customers want to buy the game. They want to support it and enjoy it. 1% are going to pirate it either way. Adding this security deters 30% or so from buying the game. Now revenues are down to ~70%. 20% return it because they didnt read the box carefully enough and dont have or dont want to have internet just to play the game. So that is ~50% total revenues for the game that could have been +90%.

Please correct me if I am wrong. Perhaps someone can explain things better. I just dont see this security system boding well for Spore. I want Spore. I want it to do well. I honestly dont see why EA doesnt just charge a monthly fee of say $5 for those who wish to use the online content and drop the base price to $20. Then again we, the players, are creating all the content for the game, so maybe we should be charging a monthly fee, but thats neither here nor there. :)

Anyway, I think I've made my point and expressed my views. I do know that this is still in rumor phase, but many rumors about EA end up happening. Mostly ones that negatively affect the consumers. And it is for that reason, I write these long posts.

Latah All!
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on May 08, 2008, 10:00:21 am
I use lots of software from a company called native instruments. THey release virtual synthesisers as plugin for the pc. If you play with them for 15 days without activation they'll stop working too. So you just activate them on the first install, it's just easy. No one seems to complain about this. You also have to do it online and for the rest your code is unvalidated if you'd placed a new cpu.

I never see such heavy protest as I see here about a game. (which is even cheaper).
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Verkinix on May 08, 2008, 10:22:34 am
I use lots of software from a company called native instruments. THey release virtual synthesisers as plugin for the pc. If you play with them for 15 days without activation they'll stop working too. So you just activate them on the first install, it's just easy. No one seems to complain about this. You also have to do it online and for the rest your code is unvalidated if you'd placed a new cpu.

I never see such heavy protest as I see here about a game. (which is even cheaper).

That is the point. The average Joe-User who knows how to turn on the computer and load up the software isnt using virtual synthesisers program. Typical audience for a program like that is, infact, psuedo tech savvy people. Further, that software isnt a game. It is far more expense and should be protected in such a way. That is kind of the point. That company has more to lose and has a much narrower customer base.

For spore, this is for the 70% of Joe-Users out there that:
1) dont hack, crack, or do anything apart from play the game and are not a threat to profits
2) is the target audience (this isnt designed to be a nitch game)
3) would be confused and annoyed (at least they should be) by being asked to reupdate their system every week

My sister plays the Sims2. She doesnt use the online features. She has all the expansions that she purchased legally. She doesnt even install things on the computer (leaves that for me). She knows how to turn on the computer, use word processors, search websites, check email, and load up her sims. Now, granted, she has internet, but I know it would confuse her as to why a game, a simple lowly game, is telling her that she needs to send information on her computer to somewhere unknown just so she can keep playing the game she bought.

The stink isnt over the fact that the game has security. It's over the fact that it is a GAME and not a $600 professional software targeting a profession audience. It's overkill, its unnecessary, and its rediculous. EA will get most of their profits from untech savvy customers who have little desire or knowhow to make illegal copies of the $50 game. I just dont see the point in trying to deter the 1% who wont be detered regardless.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on May 08, 2008, 10:31:13 am
hmm, there's a point , but if games are going to be selled with such masses, there's a potential loss of much money as well. A milion copies sold at $50 is alot, and if 10.000 copies are cracked, it's 10.000 X $50 (although I think it's a bit less than that, i'm not so sure who needs a share from the developer to the end user)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Yannick on May 08, 2008, 10:40:02 am
But the point is, pirates will never buy the game, wether it's uncrackable or not. If they can't crack, they don't play (often). No cash is going that way anyway.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Creature963 on May 08, 2008, 10:52:08 am
Seriously, who is dull minded enough to yell out, "HEI U GUYZ, IM GONNA PIRATEZ THIEZ GAME!!!1one112!"

Well, I think I am. I mean, I just did. And you quoted me on it.

Honestly, why so serious?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on May 08, 2008, 12:10:45 pm
But the point is, pirates will never buy the game, wether it's uncrackable or not. If they can't crack, they don't play (often). No cash is going that way anyway.

but you know how financial people see this. They project a certain market, and from other cases they try to extrapolate the possible piracy share that they have lost and then they think "if piracy wouldn't exist for this game we would have gained $xx.xxx.xxx
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DoggySpew on May 08, 2008, 12:15:37 pm
But the point is, pirates will never buy the game, wether it's uncrackable or not. If they can't crack, they don't play (often). No cash is going that way anyway.

but you know how financial people see this. They project a certain market, and from other cases they try to extrapolate the possible piracy share that they have lost and then they think "if piracy wouldn't exist for this game we would have gained $xx.xxx.xxx
Yes, this is a real mindscrew.  There is not real evidence of true damage done to "big" companies concerning piracy. Piracy is however is really bad for the "small" companies.

Even so, SecureRom is dragonion in it's measures. But there is a problem in some places. For instance, here in Holland it is legal to copy something you own yourself. That's why many anti-copy measures are not allowed, because they harm consumers. I wonder if SecureRom fall under this category.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: KL0k on May 08, 2008, 12:25:39 pm
im sad to say this -> i'm frickin done with this game!
i understand, that a company wants to protect their hard work, but this activation-thing mentioned is just disgusting. screw them. i loved the game since they announced it, but how this turned out.... really... screw them. i hope they die by software piracy... sorry for the harsh words.. but i'm really p***** off right now.. my pre-order is cancled...
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Jennifer Reitz on May 08, 2008, 12:49:45 pm
This isn't about copy protection.

This is about needing constant permission.

This is about whether or not you can own, and play, your full price single-player game without constant permission.

This is about needing constant permission.

This is about needing permission every ten days.

This is about renting software for 60 bucks, instead of owning what you buy.

If you don't understand this, you don't understand the problem.

SecuRom means you have to ask corporate mommy, every 10 days, if you still have the right to play the single-player game you paid full price for. That is what it means. Nothing else. Just that. Only that.

We're in favor of copy protection. We want them to have copy protection.

Just not that particular copy protection.

This should not be hard for some folks here to grasp.





Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Arand on May 08, 2008, 12:50:20 pm
Afraid I won't be able to play this game then. Since I am at a Uni whose firewalls blocks access to gaming servers. for example no Steam games are playable, period.

I was hoping I might at least play this game in single player mode...

First Flatout2, Dreamfall, and now this...

*Resentment.

- Arand
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gungnir on May 08, 2008, 01:09:05 pm
Wow, way to ruin a good thing.

Horrendous rumour
Fixed. Why are people still treating this as fact? And you guys do have internet, otherwise how are you posting? So even if it does require a connection every 10 days, big deal. And if you don't connect for ten days, connect later and at worst you'll have to reactivate your account.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Verkinix on May 08, 2008, 01:49:14 pm
Wow, way to ruin a good thing.

Horrendous rumour
Fixed. Why are people still treating this as fact? And you guys do have internet, otherwise how are you posting? So even if it does require a connection every 10 days, big deal. And if you don't connect for ten days, connect later and at worst you'll have to reactivate your account.

Read my past 156,349.2 posts and you will get and idea of what people are talking about.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: 0goober0 on May 08, 2008, 01:54:35 pm
Funny, I was just thinking about all those people in the past year(s) who asked if spore would require an internet connection. And the more knowledgeable people would explain again and again and again that it was obvious spore was going to be an offline game and any online components were optional.

Guess we were all wrong.  :-\
you realize this is just a crazy rumor right?
NOWHERE has it actually said "spore will use secuROM" either official or non official before this thread.  This is a total rumor and it might be true (unlikely) or it might be completely untrue.  Either way we should wait for an offical source to tell us one way or the other before we start freaking out a not buying, or pirating Spore (which is why they had to make these extreme measures in the first place......pirating it will force them to use even more extreme measures to keep people from pirating).
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: KL0k on May 08, 2008, 02:02:30 pm
this 10-day rumour started with the pc port of mass effect, and in a said post was a sentence about the use of this new securom, and that spore will use the same. so.. guess whats right
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Bona Fide Supraman on May 08, 2008, 02:10:18 pm
I cba to read this whole thing.

Is it true or not?

If so, what does it entail?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Sadisticfaction on May 08, 2008, 02:31:08 pm
I cba to read this whole thing.

Is it true or not?

If so, what does it entail?
The end of the universe as we know it.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on May 08, 2008, 02:59:18 pm
microsoft has this as well with thei WGA thing, should everyone stop using windows as well? If you pay and you're not online , you can call a 0800 number to acvtivate stuff,

guess what ?

if needed you can activate securom via a phone call too ^^
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: LE102071 on May 08, 2008, 03:05:01 pm
Ok, thank you for that. Now, tell me again why exactly you think spore will use securom.


I haven't read the whole thread yet, but had to comment here.

I am a Sims player.  Have been since the first Sims in '99.  I had all of the Sims 1 - game and expansion.  I then did the same thing with Sims 2.  Up until the Bon Voyage expansion Maxis used the old SafeDisk (if I remember correctly) anti-pirate software.  With BV they started with SecuRom.  The Sims 2 forums were FILLED with complaints and issues directly resulting from SecuRom BULL****.  It would disable (yes, disable) writer drives (CD and DVD) as they were a *potential* threat used by "pirates."  After several WEEKS of this, EA/Maxis released a "patch" that would completely remove SecuRom from your system... only problem is that you would also have to UNINSTALL Bon Voyage.  If you wanted to play BV again, you'd have to reinstall it right along with another copy of SecuRom.

I went 'round and 'round with EA Support over this issue.  They, with their fingers in their ears, kept telling me that the "problems" I was having had absolutely NOTHING to do with SecuRom, because.. "that isn't what the program does..  go to Sony and read for yourself."  Unfortunately that is a load of BS.  I tested this with a BRAND NEW HP Pavilion that I bought in January.  There was NOTHING on the machine except Micro$oft patches, Sims 2 and expansions, and the preinstalled stuff that comes with a new HP.  After running the BV Expansion, my DVD Rom would NOT work.  

I ended up finding a no-CD crack for BV, and subsequently Freetime..  that way SecuRom is never installed.  Many other Simmers have stated doing the same thing.  By having *this version* of Securom, EA/Maxis has turned their loyal, paying customers into pirates.  I bought each and every expansion.  But to actually PLAY the product that I paid for I had to crack it..  that is..  f'ked up beyond belief.

*IF* this version of SecuRom requires an internet connection every 10-days..  I don't know how a crack will be made for this.  I once read a list of games that use SecuRom..  and several of them I have played before..  World of Warcraft is one that comes to mind.  I never had any problems with SecuRom and WoW..  however, the version used in WoW, and the version that was on BV and FT is different.  It's going to depend greatly on what version of SecuRom they use..  and how it affects the system.

My point with my response here is that several of the posters here have said something akin to -- "But, EA wouldn't do THAT!!!  It would cost them MONEY!!!"  --  Well, I hate to burst your bubble..  but they already have.  And according to the support MANAGER from the EA Home Site..  ALL games produced by EA/Maxis WILL have SecuRom on it.

I will be watching very closely how this pans out.  What version of SecuRom they are using.. and if people have any problems with their installs of Spore.  If the game contains an invasive version of SecuRom, and the pirate community is able to hack it to the point where it doesn't adversely affect my system I will be doing what I did with Bon Voyage, and Freetime.  I will buy it..  and then I will crack it to remove Suck-U-Rom.  I would strongly advise the community here do to the exact same thing.  

ETA - If the pirate community is unable to work around this particular problem..  well..  then I won't be buying or playing Spore..  that I have waited four ****ing years for.

Peace
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: 0goober0 on May 08, 2008, 03:07:12 pm
Quote
   
Quote: Posted 05/03/08 18:04 (GMT) by aries1001

    I certainly hope your or the EA servers are readu for the massive influx of people trying to activate the game all at once.


Yes, EA is ready for us and getting ready for Spore, which will use the same system.

    Quote: Some students have internet connections but are behind a college firewall that will block any attempt of them downloading anything that is not approved by the tech and IT department of the college.


Well, its not a download and its a conversation on a normal port. We haven't had anything special to do to get the game working for any of our testers, including places that have very restricted network access.

    Quote: At least I hope the *this game requires internet activation to install* to install will be clearly marked on the box and in bigger letter than on Bioshock's box.


Yes, we have been told that there will be clear labeling on the package.

For clarity, though, an internet connection is not required to install, just to activate the first time, and every 10 days after. You can be completely connectionless for 9 days and encounter no problems playing Mass Effect. And you don't need the disk in the drive to play.
this is where the the rumor started in the first place.

this is the where the first question above came from. It doesn't mention anything about secuROM and only talks about activating the game.  Neither the question nor the answer relates to secuROM, he's just talking about the initial activation of the game [Mass Effect]on the internet.
Quote
I certainly hope your or the EA servers are readu for the massive influx of people trying to activate the game all at once.

I can remember the Bioshock incident last august and september (2007) when the servers at 2K actually went down since so many people wanted to activate the game all at once.

This is my take on it:

"Yes, EA is ready for us and getting ready for Spore, which will use the same system." is answering the question: " I certainly hope your or the EA servers are readu for the massive influx of people trying to activate the game all at once." He's saying that it uses the same server system as Spore for activation the game and doesn't mention anywhere secuROM until the next question

after that the question is asked about secuROM.

That's just my take on it....i could be completely wrong, it wouldn't be the first or the last time.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: nurizeko on May 08, 2008, 03:44:44 pm
Quote
ETA - If the pirate community is unable to work around this particular problem..  well..  then I won't be buying or playing Spore..  that I have waited four ****ing years for.

Thats the thing though, they will, which basically makes every single copy of CP on a game/disk completely and utterly irrelevant.

All it takes is one guy to pirate the game, crack it, and then it spread, and no amount of severe dumb pointless copy protection will help.

Its like having a  cinema and selling tickets with magical chips that de-activate recording devices, but totally ignore the fire exit door being open with a lead to a screen somewhere else.


You know what I mean.

Its basically self destructive business practice that loses them customers and only helps to increase the profit damaging activity they want to stop.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on May 08, 2008, 03:53:32 pm
It's a cat/mouse game between developers and pirates . and this way , the security systems will become more and more intrusive. So it's actually the pirates who make it all bad for the normal user, not the gaming companies.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 08, 2008, 03:56:24 pm
microsoft has this as well with thei WGA thing, should everyone stop using windows as well? If you pay and you're not online , you can call a 0800 number to acvtivate stuff,

guess what ?

if needed you can activate securom via a phone call too ^^

And in some countries, you pay a sh** load of money for those calls too.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: LE102071 on May 08, 2008, 04:23:36 pm
It's a cat/mouse game between developers and pirates . and this way , the security systems will become more and more intrusive. So it's actually the pirates who make it all bad for the normal user, not the gaming companies.

Not true.  EA/Maxis transformed THIS legitimate software user into a pirate.  I am now a pirate because their MALWARE version of SecuRom disabled hardware on my machine without me having any prior warning.

Several, and by that I mean double digit users from the Sims 2 boards went out and actually bought new ROM drives because they were unaware of how SecuRom would disable drives... and they believed they just had "hardware failures."  You can bet that those customers are now going the "pirate" route as well... and I know this because if was by users of that board that I found out how to bypass SecuRom with a No-CD hack.

I am all for a company protecting itself from the "dirty thieving pirates."  Really, I am...  but when the software that a company uses can legitimately be considered MALWARE because of how it affects a system OUTSIDE the game/program the software is supposed to protect...  well.. that's where I disagree...  enthusiastically.

All of you here that are saying..  "well, I have an always on internet connection so I am going to be fine...."  Read up on SecuRom.  Read up on some of the specific problems that SecuRom has been linked to.  Read about the hardware disables that it has done..  and you may want to rethink just how "safe" you think you might be.

I am not -- REPEAT -- NOT advocating downloading a pirated copy of Spore and playing it.  I am advocating that we, as legitimate customers of EA/Maxis, should have an alternative in regards to how a game has the right to take over our system. 

Peace
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: rifteroftime on May 08, 2008, 05:51:59 pm
Wouldn't EA save money by not putting anti-pirating software on their game? Pirates in general will never buy the game, even if it was uncrackable. I also assume SecuROM costs quite a bit to license. Really, it just seems to me like they toss money out the window to try to stop people (and failing miserably) from playing their game who would never buy it anyways. Doesn't make sense to me. I know I'll be getting a crack if SecuROM is used (which is still not official.)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Werechicken on May 08, 2008, 05:54:36 pm
Game politics has an article on this (http://gamepolitics.com/2008/05/08/pc-gamers-angered-by-eas-new-copy-protection-system/)

If even half of that is true, then EA have just killed a big chunk of their sales.

I find it ironic that DRM encourages piracy because people don't want to install crap that messes with their computer and will only provide  a limited number of installations. I've re-installed some of my games at least 20-30 times so there is no way I'm going to buy a game which will only let me install a game 3 times.

If it comes down to it I'll just buy the game and then crack it, and just use my own content, because there is not a chance that I'm putting up with that atrocity.

I can guarantee that before spore is released in the US it will have already been cracked if EA goes through with this.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: The Time Traveller on May 08, 2008, 06:13:30 pm
(http://i32.tinypic.com/axzfag.gif)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: 0goober0 on May 08, 2008, 06:23:22 pm
well....if it is true i better go buy an eyepatch and one of those little extendable telescopes ;)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gungnir on May 08, 2008, 06:30:16 pm
Hmm, given that it has been shown that devs watch these boards, and others, and that this is a large outrage, if they were considering putting in securom, then maybe they'll bring that up at their next meeting with ea or whatever. IF they use it, it will not be to their advantage. It can be cracked/bypassed/whatever. Making it an inconvenience doesn't help anyone.

And this seems more like a general securom discussion than just regarding spore...
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: skewedjester on May 08, 2008, 06:32:00 pm
I've disagreed with the copy protection since the news first broke (signed the petition, even), but I haven't really thought to myself "Hmm, maybe I won't buy Spore after all" until now. I mean, come on, I've been waiting two years or so for this game, a game that I feel will be the only game I will ever need from now on. Could I really give up that kind of commitment?

I think the 10-day aspect is ridiculous, but not necessarily a deal-breaker. The three installs, though? That's pushing me that much closer to the "boycott" border. I had to uninstall and reinstall games all the time when I had a smaller hard drive. I'd have burned through three installs in less than a year. I'm sure there are people who must still follow the same pattern.

Anyway, I'm hoping EA will hurry up and release some official word already, so we can know the truth. And I'm hoping they make the right decision. I want this game. I don't want to abandon it.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: 0goober0 on May 08, 2008, 06:39:07 pm
Anyway, I'm hoping EA will hurry up and release some official word already, so we can know the truth. And I'm hoping they make the right decision. I want this game. I don't want to abandon it.
you'd think they would have released something by now, they can't be blind can they? When i google 'Spore' and set it to the results from the last 24 hours all of them talk about this, and there's a lot of hits. Where they going to use securom and now they don't know because it's causing so much disruption? if so they should at least tell us they don't know yet.  If they were never planning on using it than you'd think they would have denied it by now....

edit: searching Spore on google and setting it to only the last 24 hours is actually pretty funny: almost every hit is "Spore and Mass Effect" or "Mass Effect and Spore" and they all have "validation" after that with words like "require", "forces" and "self-disable".
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: nicholasneko on May 08, 2008, 07:21:01 pm
treat others as you wish to be treated.

treat us like customers and we will buy your game, and be your customers.

treat your customers like pirates and we will just pirate your game so that we can enjoy it with out the annoyance of problems commonly caused by such practices.

choose wisely.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Zoston on May 08, 2008, 07:46:29 pm
It's a cat/mouse game between developers and pirates . and this way , the security systems will become more and more intrusive. So it's actually the pirates who make it all bad for the normal user, not the gaming companies.

This is exactly what's wrong. I've linked it before and I'll link it again http://forums.galciv2.com/303512 (http://forums.galciv2.com/303512). Brad Wardell makes the point the pirates are not your customers, stop harming loyal paying customers to hunt down a bunch of thieves who wouldn't pay for your game ever. This is not a cat and mouse game, this is a crazy guy in a suit smashing up his own house with a sledgehammer just to get rid of a single cockroach. Stardock has proven that you don't need copy protection or anything of the sort to top the salescharts, anyone saying that without copy protection games won't sell is just spewing a load of bull. Though I can completely understand the sentiment of business people wanting to make sure people pay for their products, they are losing themselves in an imaginary war where it's them versus the great evil pirates that want to destroy business, and are losing sight of the basics of business, making sure you treat your customers well and that they are satisfied with your products.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Lippy on May 08, 2008, 07:52:27 pm
Quote from: Werechicken
I've re-installed some of my games at least 20-30 times so there is no way I'm going to buy a game which will only let me install a game 3 times.

You can install it 20-30 times on your computer.  That's not the problem.  The problem is worse than that.  The problem is that you can install it on three different computers.  How it recognizes each computer is unknown, but it will more than likely send your system specs and other information of your computer to be stored on the secuRom servers.   This information needs to be clearly marked somewhere on the packaging, or at the very least inside it.  The customer needs to know exactly how this system works beyond a simple sticker that says, "Internet required to play."  They need to be made aware of what they are buying.  If not, I believe EA could be opening themselves up to class action lawsuits if this is truly as invasive as it seems to be. 

Quote from: Werechicken
I can guarantee that before spore is released in the US it will have already been cracked if EA goes through with this.
It might take longer than that to crack.  This isn't copy protection.  This is more like play protection.  It might give the hackers a bit more work to do.  I would say a month or more for the hackers to figure out how to circumvent it on Mass Effect without hindering the game.  And once they do, it might be easier to crack subsequent games that use this system.  At any rate, we'll see how it pans out way before Spore is out.

As for why EA hasn't come out and commented, it could be several reasons.  They might be looking into it, and carefully wording a response letter.  Or they might just not care because they have a contract to use SecuROM on so many games.  I'm leaning towards the latter. 
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Denris on May 08, 2008, 08:11:36 pm
I have one vote and thats with my dollar so If this turns out to be true i simply will not buy the game. I'm fine with the steam way of CP but this goes to far. Ive been waiting for this game for years and have been coming to this site daily (even if I never post), and have been a hardcore PC gamer for years but this is the type of stuff that makes me want to just give up and stop upgrading my PC and just buy a PS3, or even, god forbid, become a pirate since they seem to want to treat me like one.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gauphastus on May 08, 2008, 11:01:20 pm
Hey, Maxis.
Or EA, or whoever the hell. I don't really care anymore.
You read these forums, eh? I've been here... what? Almost the whole run? Since GDC '05 anyway.

I told my friends about this one. And no, I didn't misrepresent the issue. They're not dumbasses.
I informed them of this rumor I'd heard. Being intelligent people, they did a bit of research themselves, or what little they could. Pretty much all there is is some tech guy from Bioware stating something along the lines of sales suicide.

So we all came very easily to an agreement: none of us will purchase the game whatsoever if this phone home BS is in there at all.
And hey, get this. We all have Steam. We all have cable internet, and we all have jobs. There really is no problem with maintaining a connection or making the purchase, at least none that we could foresee.
It's the principle of the matter really. You can't stop pirates, and this dicking around gives you enough bad press that they'll certainly want to try to crack it even more; they'll be famous after this fiasco, you idiots.
Then we consider all the folks who are going to go right ahead and pirate the game now out of spite. Well..


So go right ahead and treat the entire consumer base like potential criminals.
I think I speak for a lot of folks lately when I say, "Yo ho ho!"

TIME TRAVELLER EDIT: Jesus Christ. I honestly don't remember being such a little prick.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Jennifer Reitz on May 08, 2008, 11:08:29 pm
I'm really hoping we get a clear message from on high that Spore will not be using this particular flavor (10-day forever verification) of SecuRom soon. This matter is really catching steam in the media, and is going to blow up big in EA's... and Will Wright's... faces. This could be very bad for Spore.

They have got to be having meetings about this. The only way to stop this, to nip this anger in the bud, would be to make an official statement that a non-invasive form of protection will be used. There are other flavors of SecuRom they could use.

It would be so easy to regain everyone's good will. It would score points for EA. Even their marketing department would score points. Heck, they could even make a statement about how 'EA stands committed to their loyal customers, and opposes intrusive and privacy violating copy protection". Instant marketing win. Everyone saves face, and this turmoil just fades away. Spore is guaranteed a vast customer base. Just like that.

I wonder just how big this will get? So far, it's looking like it could be as big as the Sony debacle.

Come on, Spore team, Will, somebody... cut this rising problem off at the knees by reassuring the base with good news.





Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gorman Conall on May 08, 2008, 11:22:10 pm
You guys are great..but in my opinion you guys really go overboard sometimes........

Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gauphastus on May 08, 2008, 11:32:21 pm
Nah, bitching on a forum ain't overboard.
Now if a crowd of us were to find out where Will Wright lived and went there to throw bricks at his house, that might be considered overboard.

Besides, when would be a better time to express our discontent towards this stuff? After?
No no.
Nonono.


But really, don't think I'm sitting here all red-faced fuming mad or anything.
Just bein' vocal is all.
Don't think I'm not serious though, folks.

Hey, here's an idea I'm reading from another thread out there on Internet.
Mail Will Wright a check with a letter saying you pirated it.
Hyuk.  :D
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 09, 2008, 12:23:47 am
I emailed MaxisCactus when this started and didn't get an answer, rob emailed him and Cactus said that he/she couldn't comment on SecuROM at this moment, but that they are aware of our concern.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Werechicken on May 09, 2008, 12:29:12 am
There's probably a big divide between the people who actually made the game, who want it to do well and make a name for itself, and the faceless soulless blood sucking marketing and sales people who want to squeeze as much cash out of this as they can in one fell swoop, and then leave it to rot and if they can get a load of consumer browsing and game info while they're at it (because I'm damn sure it's not just going to be rechecking the security code every 5-10 days) then all the better.

Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on May 09, 2008, 01:06:49 am
yay, I'll be in the news as I'm the only person in the world who will buy spore ^^
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gauphastus on May 09, 2008, 01:12:34 am
Hey, it could happen.

So, CosmicD. Mind if I come over on September 15th to play Spore on your computer? That'll give you some time to play it yourself.
This way, I'll be the first to book some time on there.
I can't pay you anything, but I could probably... striptease or something. Whatever that means.



EDIT: But really, no matter how challenging, all crackers will see this as a challenge.
And when they do crack it, it'll be everywhere. They'll be famous like I said, even for a short time.
Each patch they put out that fixes one bug and attempts to stop cracks will be cracked.
You cannot stop piracy by making everybody jump through these incredibly f-tarded hoops.

You know what? If Wright ever leaves EA to strike off on his own again, I personally pledge to his new game company $1000.
What the hell.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Spore-addict on May 09, 2008, 01:25:06 am
It really sucks that securom..

I think it is confirmed we get it. Multiple sites do mention it used on spore and mass effect. We will for sure see how it goes by following mass effect.

I wanted really to buy spore and do it the legal way but one thing only pisses me off.

Can anyone confirm this?

I have heard that we can not install the game on two different computers or else our key gets banned.

First of I dont know if this means anytime or sametime.

Both is giving me trouble since I spend the weekend at another place and workdays at my big comp. So I wont be able to play spore the weekends or the workdays...

That is utter bull****. Do it the steam way. So we cant login and play at the same time but we can use it on different computers..much better.

further more a max of 3 installs. I am a teacher in computers so I often install xp or vista depending on what type of classes I get. Therefore my limit of 3 installs will be used VERY quickly. Heck, most of us can have computer trouble and installing OS serveral times...has done that to make Sli work.

Now I also has to fear my hardearned paid game wont work? WTF.

And to make matters worse that 5-10 days verification, then 10 day extended. Means that we could lose the key after 15 days...if matters is worst. Like a small holyday trip or christmas...where you are busy and have not been online.

What if your internet connection drops out due to issues with the internet provider or repairs...then your game is worthless too. Or you could use one of the installs, install on another pc..then strike 2.

Buying the game, I would do it anyday but If I need to buy the game, then get a hack to remove serucom and fear that Anyday it will be discovered and my game removed, key stopped is just as bad.

I wont support EA , this is the only way we show them how we feel about serurom. I am just sad if a great game like Spore will be hit!.

By the way does EA plan on using this on all their games...?
I think many of us is looking forward to hear how the mass effect game goes with this securom.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: SpaceOddity on May 09, 2008, 02:11:14 am
The take of PennyArcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/05/09/desperate-measures/):

(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/SpaceOddity_2001/PennyArcadeSecuROM.jpg)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Flak on May 09, 2008, 02:28:52 am
And to make matters worse that 5-10 days verification, then 10 day extended. Means that we could lose the key after 15 days...if matters is worst. Like a small holyday trip or christmas...where you are busy and have not been online.

Of all of the crap I've read this is the one that makes the least sense. If it's true I wouldn't even think of touching spore.

I got very sick last year and was in the hospital for 2 weeks and had a 3 week period where I couldn't get out of bed. No PC for all that time. If I came home after nearly dying and couldn't play my favorite game I'd be damn pissed.

I don't see how they could do that though. It's completely outrageous.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: SpaceOddity on May 09, 2008, 02:36:18 am
You can play the game again as soon as you've connected to the 'net.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: xirtap on May 09, 2008, 02:52:39 am
microsoft has this as well with thei WGA thing, should everyone stop using windows as well? If you pay and you're not online , you can call a 0800 number to acvtivate stuff,

guess what ?

if needed you can activate securom via a phone call too ^^

You don't seem to grasp the problem. Windows require you to activate it ONCE. This requires you to activate it ONCE every TENTH DAY for the rest of your life.

To the people who thinks pirates will spend longer time cracking this for Spore they won't. Why? Because Mass Effect is released months in advanced with the same protection scheme. Once a protection scheme is broken it's broken. As simple as that. I wouldn't be surprised if they spend at most a week cracking Mass Effect, but this won't be the same for Spore.

Just to repeat it to the people who don't seem to get it, this is not a cat and mouse game.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 09, 2008, 03:29:28 am
yay, I'll be in the news as I'm the only person in the world who will buy spore ^^

You're also the only one who seems to be in favour of SecuROM... I personally don't care since I got an internet connection, but I'd still like to play the game after 10 days with no connection, after all it's both a singleplayer and multiplayer game and I PAID for it, why should it work offline and after 10 days not work at all until I connect again?

When I buy a game like TF2 for example, I know what I'm paying for and I know I won't be able to play it offline because there are no bots and the game is made for online play. But I buy it knowing what I'm buying, but allowing someone to play a game they bought offline for only 10 days after you were last connected to the internet is just damn straight stupid.

Oh, btw, I don't think you'd have much fun being the only one playing Spore, you'd have nobody to share your creations with and all the creatures, etc you'd encounter would be the ones that came with the DVD and your own... That would get pretty boring really fast ^^
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Spore-addict on May 09, 2008, 03:43:08 am
Spaceoddity:

how do you explain this then. If we can just reconnect and play on.


"This new version is causing controversy due to an online verification system connected to its CD key. The system requires a connection to the internet during installation… After this the game will try to re-check the CD key every 5-10 days… If the game can’t verify the key… it will continue to try for a further 10 days, after which it will stop working… The protection will also only allow the game to be installed three times.

Taken from here:
http://gamepolitics.com/2008/05/08/pc-gamers-angered-by-eas-new-copy-protection-system/

I must say I am worried that stop working means your key is gone. If disabled then it could mean you have 2 installs left...the counter is ticking.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on May 09, 2008, 03:58:03 am
you don't even have to do anything to activate the game every 10 days. the game will just "phone home" every 10 days while you are asleep, having your computer on at night.

Seariously, I understand the hassle, but what I don't understand is people suddenly coming up with "what if i" situations they will probably never get into as an excuse :P

I read on the securom site that when the drivers disable something, they disable some low level stuff that is used to make exact copies from cd's.

WIth Starforce this was also a major dispute.

I'd also want to disable the thief as much as possible from coming into my home.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Henqix on May 09, 2008, 05:07:10 am
Why would an average customer that has already bought the game want to make copy's of it? In what way does this stop pirates that just download a modified version of it that don't do this?
The customer isn't the thief.
This is like locking your door when theres a hole in your wall.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Murali on May 09, 2008, 05:07:31 am
you don't even have to do anything to activate the game every 10 days. the game will just "phone home" every 10 days while you are asleep, having your computer on at night.

Seariously, I understand the hassle, but what I don't understand is people suddenly coming up with "what if i" situations they will probably never get into as an excuse :P

No, no... I don't think you really do understand.  Do you realize who the only people this really effects are?  It only really effects the honest people and the "wannabe pirate".  The real people pirating the software WILL break it and it WILL be pirated.

So, realistically, its only Joe Schmo that this effects.  Billy Pirate will just laugh to himself the whole way through.

I read on the securom site that when the drivers disable something, they disable some low level stuff that is used to make exact copies from cd's.

WIth Starforce this was also a major dispute.

I'd also want to disable the thief as much as possible from coming into my home.

And this proves you just don't get it.  Who owns your computer?  Last I check, you paid for it... so why should you install some kind of spyware (eg sonys rootkit) to have to use a service?

If you don't want to own your computer, feel free to send it my way... I'll give you plenty of 'value added benefit'.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Murali on May 09, 2008, 05:09:04 am
Why would an average customer that has already bought the game want to make copy's of it? In what way does this stop pirates that just download a modified version of it that don't do this?
The customer isn't the thief.
This is like locking your door when theres a hole in your wall.

Some of us like to make ISO's of our game and use Daemon Tools to play the game... We leave the CD in the box...  This means A) Instant load times... Its not reading from a CD/DVD and B) the CD is safe and clean... so my shoddy optical drive or kid or some other weird ass occurence that people claim to happen never will.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: KL0k on May 09, 2008, 05:20:06 am
i wouldnt have been that upset, if i had less problems with games from EA plus securom... specially the EA accountserver seem to hate me, cause i cant get one single game registered without a fricken problem (theres still roundbout 8-9 games i had problems with on my shelve which i couldnt play online one time beside usiing hamachi...). plus the fact that securom likes to hate my drives in my comp... plus the possibility, that you cant play it if you arent connected to the net... i mean... helloooooo? anyone heard of uni-networks..? internet cafés? and the like? or volumeflatrate-dialup connections and the like?
forcing ppl to be online all the time just to verify that you really didnt steal it off the net, is just plain stupid. period.
and just to clarify things: the only ppl who will tear their hair out with this protection are the customers, cause the pirated games always come with a workaround in any kind, cause thats whats all about in that scene.. so guess whos pissed then.

a person who thinks that this copy protection will solve a problem instead of creating new problems -> *harsh word of your choice*
the crackers will love the challenge, and i bet it will be a crack/hack/workaround online in less then 24hours after release, if not earlier ^^
better believe it and find another way.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Lippy on May 09, 2008, 05:24:32 am
"This new version is causing controversy due to an online verification system connected to its CD key. The system requires a connection to the internet during installation… After this the game will try to re-check the CD key every 5-10 days… If the game can’t verify the key… it will continue to try for a further 10 days, after which it will stop working… The protection will also only allow the game to be installed three times.

The stuff in bold is wrong.  They didn't do any research of their own.  They read it wrong and are making wild rumors that are wrong and don't care because they want to make as much stink about it as they can.  If you're going to be mad, know what you're being mad about.  Read the comments from the programmers at Bioware on the Mass Effect forum you would see how it works.  It will only check on days 5-10.  If you are not connected on those days, fine, but it will not run on the tenth day, and will not run again until you run the game again while connected to the internet.   

The game can only be installed on 3 different computers.  This is different than saying can only be installed three times.  Nobody knows exactly what the criteria are for what changes can be made to your computer without spooking SecuROM into thinking you installed it onto a different computers.  They just guess.  But they do have to store your system configuration on their servers to check. 
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: SpaceOddity on May 09, 2008, 05:26:23 am
Spaceoddity:

how do you explain this then. If we can just reconnect and play on.


"This new version is causing controversy due to an online verification system connected to its CD key. The system requires a connection to the internet during installation… After this the game will try to re-check the CD key every 5-10 days… If the game can’t verify the key… it will continue to try for a further 10 days, after which it will stop working… The protection will also only allow the game to be installed three times.

Taken from here:
http://gamepolitics.com/2008/05/08/pc-gamers-angered-by-eas-new-copy-protection-system/

I must say I am worried that stop working means your key is gone. If disabled then it could mean you have 2 installs left...the counter is ticking.

You need to read the original thread where Derek French drops the bomb (http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=628375&forum=125&sp=3). He answers your question somewhere halfway the thread. That forum is the only official source, EA has not released a separate statement, so all speculation is based on that site. The original thread is now closed, but discussion is now in this other thread in the same official forum. (http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=628724&forum=125) Now 99 pages long!  :o

edit: You're allowed three installs at any time. You can also de-activate one of your installs to free it up, and use it elsewhere. So, yes, you could also sell it on after you've de-activated all of them. The buyer will get exactly what you got originally. The probelms start when you have a hardware failure, making it impossible to de-activate. This is what happened with Bioshock. After all the hubbub they made a separate de-activator solving some of the problems. Buying second hand games with this software is a risk because you have to depend on the seller to have de-activated all the installs.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Henqix on May 09, 2008, 05:28:42 am
Why would an average customer that has already bought the game want to make copy's of it? In what way does this stop pirates that just download a modified version of it that don't do this?
The customer isn't the thief.
This is like locking your door when theres a hole in your wall.

Some of us like to make ISO's of our game and use Daemon Tools to play the game... We leave the CD in the box...  This means A) Instant load times... Its not reading from a CD/DVD and B) the CD is safe and clean... so my shoddy optical drive or kid or some other weird ass occurence that people claim to happen never will.

Which is why this makes no sense. You bought it, you should be able to make private copies. It wouldn't affect sales.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Werechicken on May 09, 2008, 05:39:00 am
The game can only be installed on 3 different computers.  This is different than saying can only be installed three times.  Nobody knows exactly what the criteria are for what changes can be made to your computer without spooking SecuROM into thinking you installed it onto a different computers.  They just guess.  But they do have to store your system configuration on their servers to check. 

So you can only upgrade your computer twice after you buy spore?

If you bought the game, you  didn't rent it. So why should you have restrictions placed on where you can and can't install the game you payed money for? I appreciate online activation but why can't they just do what steam does? A one time online activation through an account you set up and then you can set it to remain off line after that, although I do wonder what's going to happen when the steam servers eventually close down...
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: KL0k on May 09, 2008, 05:45:35 am
just an idea or example:
just a regular protection and a verification if you get online? (just remember the cp-system of neverwinter nights, so you'll know what i mean)
i mean, this game, spore, will be account-bound and got it own network like myspace, where everyone need a legit key, like in every other game you want to play online.
so why all this fuss with the verification afterwards?
that way, it wouldnt be a big drama / big deal, plus theres no "you need internet"-forcing stuff in it, for the ppl who really got problems with it and want to be able to play it completly offline (just think about the accountserver drama, i wrote about, above, just for an example beside the regular stuff)... o0
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Werechicken on May 09, 2008, 06:20:55 am
Hey guess who SecuROM's made by..... Sony!

So we have a company which has already undergone one massive scandal thanks to a DRM (specifically rootkit) that messed up peoples computers and illegally installed software onto those same computers.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DaMuncha on May 09, 2008, 06:25:25 am
Hey, Maxis.
Or EA, or whoever the hell. I don't really care anymore.
You read these forums, eh? I've been here... what? Almost the whole run? Since GDC '05 anyway.

I told my friends about this one. And no, I didn't misrepresent the issue. They're not dumbasses.
I informed them of this rumor I'd heard. Being intelligent people, they did a bit of research themselves, or what little they could. Pretty much all there is is some tech guy from Bioware stating something along the lines of sales suicide.

So we all came very easily to an agreement: none of us will purchase the game whatsoever if this phone home BS is in there at all.
And hey, get this. We all have Steam. We all have cable internet, and we all have jobs. There really is no problem with maintaining a connection or making the purchase, at least none that we could foresee.
It's the principle of the matter really. You can't stop pirates, and this dicking around gives you enough bad press that they'll certainly want to try to crack it even more; they'll be famous after this fiasco, you idiots.
Then we consider all the folks who are going to go right ahead and pirate the game now out of spite. Well..


So go right ahead and treat the entire consumer base like potential criminals.
I think I speak for a lot of folks lately when I say, "Yo ho ho!"

Argh! Ye scurvy curr! Ill board ye ship and run off wit ye cabin boy!, he he

seriously, I was definately thinking about pirating Bioshock when the whole Securom Fiasco about that began. And ya know what? it still hasnt been fixed. I have 2 installs left and then the game will no longer work. F U Securom

Quote
Hey guess who SecuROM's made by..... Sony!

Its a scam, its a rip off, its its its... sony trying to screw up PC games so that more people will buy playstation, God I hate those jerks.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: BlueSabor on May 09, 2008, 08:19:42 am
If this link has been done, delete it!
 
http://www.fragland.net/news/Spore-and-Mass-Effect-require-regular-validation/19044/
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Yannick on May 09, 2008, 08:40:38 am
Fake? Huzzah!
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Uroboros on May 09, 2008, 11:26:49 am
Funnily enough, I only just noticed this.

Im glad I havent placed my preorder yet. To think I was hovering over that preorder button just today. Buying the retail version then just downloading a crack for it would still likely disable your ability to connect to the official servers/content databases and the like, even if it lets you play it without having to worry about getting a nasty turn from SecuROM. So it leaves me wondering what to do.

Its only really going to be punishing us legally purchasing customers. Its almost like they're trying to drop a hint. When they end up taking a big hit to their expected initial sales, and a massive drop in sales about a week or so afterwards, when it ends up pirated, you can bet they'll be screaming "THE PIRATES DID IT!".

I can appreciate their want to preserve their rightful income, but this is going to really ruin the amount of cash they make. This system, in effect, only really gives paying customers a big corporate middle-finger. Unfortunately, the collective middle-finger of paying customers turned pirate by SecuROM is collosally larger than EA's.

The sad thing is, I can see them blaming this on Spore itself, saying it was a flop, and serving as a false 'example' of how adventurous and creative ideas arent well recieved by the public. Just another step towards Yahtzee's predicted "Captain Blands Monotonous Adventures", which will likely be an FPS featuring nothing but bloom-wash in sepia and backing music by the latest rap artist.

(And to think people got ratty with Luminar for daring to expect EA is capable of something just like this. Humble pie, anyone?)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: LadyM on May 09, 2008, 11:46:37 am
Received by email:
Quote from: Caryl Shaw
Hey Spore Fans -

We wanted to let you know that we've been hearing your concerns about
the online authentication mentioned earlier this week.  I didn't want to
head into the weekend without getting back to you with some information
about how Spore is planning on using this new system.

A few things we wanted you to know:

-- We authenticate your game online when you install and launch it the
first time.
-- We'll re-authenticate when a player uses online features, downloads
new content or a patch for their game.
-- The new system means you don't have to play with the disc in your
computer. And if you are like me, always losing discs, this will be a
huge benefit.
-- You'll still be able to install and play on multiple computers.
-- You can play offline.

We do hope that players will play online - sharing creatures, buildings
and vehicles with other players is something that is unique to Spore and
one of the coolest features of the game. Every day, when I play the
Creature Stage, I get to see wacky and awesome new creatures from my
Buddies on the team coming over the hill at me and I can't wait to see
what happens when our creative, passionate community starts sharing
their creations.

I'd love to write more - but I need to get back to work.  We've got a
game to finish.  :-)

-caryl
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: rob on May 09, 2008, 11:48:12 am
lol just beat me to it was about to post it hehe.

It's great they contacted.

Rob
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Werechicken on May 09, 2008, 11:50:17 am
Thank f*** for that!

So it is fairly similar to the valve model - which is great.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: happydan20 on May 09, 2008, 11:52:12 am
that seemed to general to answer questions to me.

You could play offline on the 10 day plan, for a while...

You could share up to 3 computers on the 10 day plan ans well.

is she saying the 10 day thing isnt in spore or is she simply repackaging the plan to make it shiny and acceptable with double speak?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gauphastus on May 09, 2008, 11:55:03 am
Quote from: Caryl Shaw
-- We authenticate your game online when you install and launch it the
first time.
Okay.

Quote
-- We'll re-authenticate when a player uses online features, downloads
new content or a patch for their game.
Okay, that makes sense since you need to be online anyway.

Quote
-- The new system means you don't have to play with the disc in your
computer. And if you are like me, always losing discs, this will be a
huge benefit.
I use nocd's anyway, so I don't really care, but okay.

Quote
-- You'll still be able to install and play on multiple computers.
I have one computer, so I don't really care, but okay. Also, how many installations at a time?
This is an issue for certain people, so I have to ask.

Quote
-- You can play offline.
Yeah, we knew that already. But do we still need to reauthenticate every ten days or not?


But thanks, Caryl (and LadyM for posting). It means a lot when we get word from Maxis.
Why EA wouldn't want to come quash this thing before it killed off like 10k+ sales I'll never understand.
They must really like their illusions of control.


/still not appeased
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Lucky on May 09, 2008, 12:01:26 pm
Yeah, we knew that already. But do we still need to reauthenticate every ten days or not?

To answer this question:  No, you will not have to re-authenticate every 10 days. 

Authenticate initially at first launch and re-authenticate when you use online features, download new content or get a patch.

-caryl
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gauphastus on May 09, 2008, 12:02:07 pm
Thank you very much, dear.
My fury has subsided.

I will pass this information along.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Werechicken on May 09, 2008, 12:07:11 pm
Thank you very much, dear.
My fury has subsided.

I will pass this information along.

Dear? what are you a southern gentleman?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: happydan20 on May 09, 2008, 12:09:03 pm
it depends on how the streaming choices the game makes when putting new content on you computer will work...  But if its constant or often, wouldn't that put a strain on validation servers?

For example, bioshock used this (i think they actually gave up and remoed it later), and when the game first came out, the authentication servers were overloaded with traffic and so people couldn't authenticate the game.

If spore plans to do this every time you add new content to your game, have steps been taken to prevent this?  Is the validation server separate from the content server?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gauphastus on May 09, 2008, 12:12:31 pm
Thank you very much, dear.
My fury has subsided.

I will pass this information along.

Dear? what are you a southern gentleman?

Oh my, yes.
Though I reckon we've deviated from the topic at hand, sah.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Lucky on May 09, 2008, 12:15:01 pm
If spore plans to do this every time you add new content to your game, have steps been taken to prevent this?  Is the validation server separate from the content server?

They are separate servers.  And we won't be validating for every individual piece of shared content.  That would kill us.  :-)

-caryl
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Uroboros on May 09, 2008, 12:18:01 pm
Well, authentication of some kind has always been expected, when using online features.
Its amazing how such a small piece of neglected, vital information can make a huge difference to people. We're too used to getting shafted in every way possible, so its hard to keep in good faith about such things.

The "three valid installs" rule is still worrying, as it sounds like too much hassle to reclaim installs I forgot to deactivate, whenever I upgrade my computers hardware. Though hopefully they've made this process far more sensible too.

Thanks Lucky.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Quantum Burrito on May 09, 2008, 12:28:50 pm
Thank you Caryl! As a display of gratitude, I shall re-write your entry in the willist canon:

Caryl Shaw, The Lightbringer, Clearer of Muddles, Divinity Second Only to The Will Himself
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: happydan20 on May 09, 2008, 12:34:35 pm
i dont envy who ever has to clean up the mess these last few days of securom discussion have caused,  its been reported everywhere, even a penny arcade comic!  Hell, i learned of spores existence because of PA.

At least theres a lot of time till launch for the dust to settle.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: PatMan33 on May 09, 2008, 12:39:46 pm
Attention Spore chumps and chumpettes, direct your attention to the front page of Gaming Steve.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gauphastus on May 09, 2008, 12:42:48 pm
Yes, we just got that last page.

And now I take my leave of this section once again.
Have fun, guyyyys.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: rifteroftime on May 09, 2008, 12:48:12 pm
So, is there no limit on the amount of installs we can make? That's one of my main issues with SecuROM.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: PatMan33 on May 09, 2008, 12:49:27 pm
After that debacle with BioShock I doubt anyone would be so stupid as to impose a limit on installs.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: rifteroftime on May 09, 2008, 12:52:32 pm
I certainly hope no one would be that stupid, but seeing as it's EA, you can never be too sure. They've done worse than this in the past.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: PatMan33 on May 09, 2008, 12:53:43 pm
A valid point... I'm just going to sit in the corner and rock back and forth. Wanna come with me?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: rifteroftime on May 09, 2008, 12:55:51 pm
I'm already there.  ;D

I do doubt they'd go the way of Bioshock, but I would still like an answer, just to be sure.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Ultramarine on May 09, 2008, 12:57:32 pm
Well, at least our voices have been heard.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: KL0k on May 09, 2008, 12:59:09 pm
damn.. i was so upset.. lol...forget what i posted the last 2 days... lol...

thank you very much for infos submitted.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Flak on May 09, 2008, 01:34:41 pm
I'm still not convinced... :(

Sorry if this has been posted, it's really a great read.

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/sins_of_a_solar_empire/
Sins of DRM lead to Sins of a Solar Empire - Page 1 - The DRM Fallacy

Also from stardock:

http://blogs.ign.com/Stardock_Games/2008/01/29/78711/
Sins of a Solar Empire - Copy Protection

"And I think most gamers will agree that a system that rewards people for buying your product is preferable to one that treats them like potential criminals."
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: BlueSabor on May 09, 2008, 01:55:08 pm
Yeah, we knew that already. But do we still need to reauthenticate every ten days or not?

To answer this question:  No, you will not have to re-authenticate every 10 days. 

Authenticate initially at first launch and re-authenticate when you use online features, download new content or get a patch.

-caryl

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/PWH/Fun/images.jpg)

Thank you for that answer. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/PWH/Fun/drinksuf71.gif) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/PWH/Fun/drinksuf71.gif) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/PWH/Fun/drinksuf71.gif)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: The Time Traveller on May 09, 2008, 01:59:56 pm
I'm really glad about this.  I'm also glad that Caryl has revealed her profile to be Lucky.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Ultramarine on May 09, 2008, 02:08:00 pm
Wouldn't have come to pass anyway, I mean for Christs sakes this is SPORE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT!!!
But at least we have a definite answer instead of a rumour floating around anymore.

So what is to become of this thread?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Verkinix on May 09, 2008, 02:09:46 pm
I am happy now. I have no problems with the game being verified on the server end. I just didnt like the idea of an intrusive system that requires constant reevaluation of the license and the potential harm it would bring to those customers with limited computer skills. I also didnt like the idea of a limit of 3 installs. I have no problem with 3 simultaneous installs so long as, in the event a new system is obtained, the old one can be deactivated and the new one can be activated. That would keep single copies at bay, but allow families to play and share together.

I ask that all you would-be pirates out there (and regular pirates) take a look at the level of quality that is being instilled here. Do you really want PC game quality to diminish? If the game's not worth the price to you, simply leave it be or wait till it hits the bargin bin. But the technology in this game alone is worth the price, so just buy it. It's clear that Maxis wants happy customers and wants to produce a quality product. So why not support them on pure merit?

Anyway, I hope all those who gave into the scare of the bogus copy protection and cancelled your preorders dont give up on the game entirely. It was a rumor, but the strength of our resolve was necessary in order to ensure that the rumor would not materialize into the actual game. We simply wanted EA to know that we, as paying customers, would not stand for such an intrusive system.

The verified system by Caryl sounds reasonable. They want to give us our DVD drive back by not requiring it to play. In turn, they verify our serial during normal updates and content download, which they should do. We can install on all of our machines and not be limited in case we get upgrades, new ones, or simple reformats.

Thank you Caryl and Maxis for your prompt replies. I hope that all who were planning on buying Spore are still doing so and that those who werent would still support this game from a purely technological stand point. We need more procedural programs and they can only benefit everyone who uses electronics.

Anyway, I no longer have to boycott EA products (unless they do something foolish like impliment the said CP). But I thank everyone for their input. This was a truly healthy forum thread (for the most part).

Thanks again!

Verkinix
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Le Koala Fou on May 09, 2008, 03:10:51 pm
I'm worried about this setence :
-- We'll re-authenticate when a player uses online features, downloads
new content or a patch for their game.

What is "new content" ? Creatures ? Vehicles ?

So it mean we have to authenticate when we go on the Sporepedia ?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 09, 2008, 03:17:08 pm
I'm worried about this setence :
-- We'll re-authenticate when a player uses online features, downloads
new content or a patch for their game.

What is "new content" ? Creatures ? Vehicles ?

So it mean we have to authenticate when we go on the Sporepedia ?

New content: creatures, vehicles, etc
Patches: well, patches :P and possible future editors.

So, basically it will check frequently when you are playing online.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Nazzul on May 09, 2008, 03:29:10 pm
It's great that we get answers very quickly by the SPORE team. It really shows that they care about there fans even if this website is probably a very small part of the fanbase that spore will have.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: happydan20 on May 09, 2008, 03:44:53 pm
im pretty ok with a system of authentication once you hop online in the game, thats no different than playing wow.  As long as the user knows when, why, and how...  I don't think that its unreasonable.  There is still the possibility that the anti piracy software may be more intrusive, or interfere with other programs..  we wont know that till someone installs it.

The majority of the concerns have been addressed, and i wouldn't feel stupid putting it on my computer.

Still, im waiting to see what issues people have with it before i buy it.  At least now i don't feel like i have to steal it to play it.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Hydromancerx on May 09, 2008, 03:52:03 pm
If spore plans to do this every time you add new content to your game, have steps been taken to prevent this?  Is the validation server separate from the content server?

They are separate servers.  And we won't be validating for every individual piece of shared content.  That would kill us.  :-)

-caryl

Glad to see your lurking around still Caryl!

Good luck Spore Team!

Just wait until we get a hold of the Creature Creator in a month! Muahahah!  ;D
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Interitus on May 09, 2008, 04:27:08 pm
You know what, I'm personally annoyed with the people who were against it. Not just for this, but other games too. Now if for whatever reason you don't have internet at home, that's one thing.  And at first I didn't like the idea either, then I considered it. It may help curb piracy. It's a quick and painless method that simply communicates a CD key to a server and back, you didn't have to do anything and it is FAR less damaging then software like Starforce.

Maybe I'm crazy but this doesn't seem that bad. People were acting uneducated and causing a panic that their game would become invalid if it wasn't updated every 10 days. This was the biggest joke, no one would force you to check every 10 days. It simply runs the check every 10 days. If you went on a 14 day vacation it would check the next time you logged in, and 10 days after that.

Lack of understanding from the consumer caused a huge uproar over an anti-piracy system that wasn't THAT bad. And now, instead games like Mass Effect, who also no longer have this system are using things like limits to the number of computers you can install the game. Worst case scenario it recognizes installing a new video card as a different computer. But even if that is not the case, having to call up and request the key revoked is easily much more of a hassle.

I'm sure these games would have released a patch that nulls the need to check once they stop supporting them. 10 years from now if I pull out my Mass Effect disc and forgot to revoke my keys, I'll have to try and call customer service hoping they can help me. Honestly, after  thinking about it, I like the online system much better. 
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gorman Conall on May 09, 2008, 04:43:54 pm


I'm sure these games would have released a patch that nulls the need to check once they stop supporting them.

Oh no haven't you heard!!! EA would never do that!!!. They are a great big meanie pants company that hates everybody and everything!!!. /sarcasm.

I agree with your post 100%



Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 09, 2008, 04:47:37 pm
Where's the puppy? I hear it crying.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Ultramarine on May 09, 2008, 04:49:23 pm
Well since the rumors been squashed maybe the topic could be locked or we could just let it die.
Just saying... ::)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Chaosenigma on May 09, 2008, 04:59:21 pm
Yay!, they made some changes!
Thats a pretty good method they've decided on. I dont mind re-authenticating every time a patch or large update is released, and being able to play w/o the CD and on multiple computers is an excellent idea!, go dev team for making spore more enticing for the consumer instead of driving them away with DRM!

@Interitus: It's not so much the authentication every few days that's bad, it's the fact that is was previously mentioned you only get three installs. While the authentication could become an annoyance if it were 'Please enter CD-key every few days', the limited install means that i would need a copy for every few times i decide to reformat, or uninstall / reinstall for more space, and that i wouldnt be able to play simultaneously with family members. I agree though, it's not as bad as that monstrous DRM they called starforce (After installing X3:Reunion, a disk drive started becoming more and more unresponsive, wouldn't burn things, couldnt read much, etc. etc.)

Either way, crisis averted, voting with wallet in 4 months or so. ;D , cant wait till this gets released
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Anony on May 09, 2008, 06:31:41 pm
I'm still pretty skeptical.  The problems with securom type programs aren't always fully understood until after games using them are released.  It's obnoxious feeling like I should wait a month after initial release to research for any issues people are having.  I for one had a very bad experience because of how Bio Shock worked, for example.  In the future I won't by games from that company until they've been out for a while.

When my computers are acting funny, I don't want to sit around and deactivate installs.  It's the last thing I'm thinking about when I reformat a computer.  If I'm not absolutely confident that I can reinstall a game several dozen times, I will NOT buy it.

I don't know about you guys, but I have a LOT of older games.  Many of them over 10 years old, sitting on a bookshelf.  I still play them, but most of those games have no official support now.  If the install program required that it "phoned home" it would not find a "home" out there anymore.  This makes replaying them a pain in the arse without looking for stupid cracks and other programs that are, ironically, the very same programs pirates use when the rest of us are paying money.

Anyway, not to add fire to the issue.  I see most of you seem pretty happy now that Lucky has clarified things.  As long as most of the buyers are happy I guess EA has done there job.  I'm just not sure I'm sold yet.  >:(
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: eropS on May 09, 2008, 07:10:29 pm
Man, it seems like nothing makes a doom-sayer happy...
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Jennifer Reitz on May 09, 2008, 07:32:18 pm
I am OK with what Caryl has described. It is acceptable for the program to verify when the user makes use of online materials. I have no problem with that.

If Spore does not need to keep getting permission from Mommy Corporation every ten days so that I may be permitted to use my lawful purchase, then I am content. If users can use their software offline, indefinitely, without having to beg constantly for permission to play, I am content.

If I can play Spore on my computer five years down the road, after EA has shut off the verification servers, and abandoned the product as being too old to bother with, then I am content.

That was what all the furor was about, and according to Caryl, it is no longer an issue, if it ever was (if the head of Bioware was to believed, of course).

This means that those with poor internet connections, those who go on vacations, and those without internet, can still enjoy Spore's half a million unique worlds, and countless lifeforms, that ship with the basic program, as it should be.

And for those for which half a million worlds and countless lifeforms are not enough, the internet will provide countless-plus-more.

And best of all, half a decade from now, I can go back, boot up Spore, and enjoy it again, or just see what I once created.

This was what the anger was about. It would seem that we can all relax now.

Good for Maxis, good for EA, and thank you Caryl.

Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Uroboros on May 09, 2008, 07:35:06 pm
You know what, I'm personally annoyed with the people who were against it.
Yeah, got forbid someone have a problem with buying a product that decides not to work, when you fail to meet contrived, previously unspecified requirements.

Quote
It may help curb piracy.
Yeah, not having internet tends to curb piracy, in the way that unless you're actually cracking the games yourself, you dont get direct access to pirated copies at all. But even then, that person wouldnt have been able to play the non-pirated game either, so they might as well have been a pirate for all the good it does the company.

Quote
It's a quick and painless method that simply communicates a CD key to a server and back, you didn't have to do anything and it is FAR less damaging then software like Starforce.
And a stab in the eye is less damaging than a stab in the brain, but its still quite detrimental to your health. And as it stood, it wasnt just a one-shot online validation, it was a multi-shot online validation that halted offline play and screwed you over if you forgot to 'reclaim' your install tokens. Thats where the base of the issue was. Its standard affair to expect some form of validation when using online features, but not to expect a product you bought to be rendered useless by something that wouldnt be clearly specified on the box. You'd be a little annoyed if you bought an album that refused to play each week until you went back to the store to get a ticket punched by the staff, but nothing was mentioned about it until you opened the case. Since Caryl went over it with us, pointing out that SecuROM have made the system far more reasonable, people have become quite content. I wonder why that is? Maybe its magic? Or maybe its just, y'know, that bit about being reasonable.

Quote
Maybe I'm crazy but this doesn't seem that bad
Now that it has been revealed that SecuROM smartened up, its not.

Quote
People were acting uneducated and causing a panic that their game would become invalid if it wasn't updated every 10 days.
As we understood it, it would. It wasnt a panic, it was an uproar. It wasnt uneducated, it was misinformed. And given starforce and the like, people are getting used to developers making some utterly stupid moves, and figured it wasnt likely far from the truth. In our uproar, the actual word on the copy protection got out, and we were calmed. No harm, no foul.

Quote
This was the biggest joke, no one would force you to check every 10 days.
Nope, no men in black putting guns to our heads. Haw haw, fancy that.
But the game apparently would have stopped functioning until internet access resumed and the program was validated. Which was annoying and starting to cross a line. You're talking about people prior to knowing the truth, and referring to facts we learned after an official statement. Yeah, people jumped on it hard, but it got a response.

Quote
I'm sure these games would have released a patch that nulls the need to check once they stop supporting them. 10 years from now if I pull out my Mass Effect disc and forgot to revoke my keys, I'll have to try and call customer service hoping they can help me. Honestly, after  thinking about it, I like the online system much better. 
After they stop supporting them, the only online features will be user-hosted. You're saying because of an uproar over dodgey anti-piracy measures that only really hurts retail customers, they put in something just as bad, and we're responsible for that? So you're annoyed at people who got annoyed, rather than the dodgey anti-piracy measures they used in place of the previously hideous anti-piracy measures? In my opinion thats a bit of an odd redirection of focus, y'know.

The machine doesnt need people to defend it. If its grown up enough to screw us over and turn us into jaded, cynical, expect-no-mercy types, then its grown up enough to take massive profit hits when it farts all over its customer base. Thankfully, those involved decided that a mass rise in piracy of their game would be a bad thing, and sorted out something that would have caused it. As I said, no harm, no foul.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Creature963 on May 09, 2008, 08:01:26 pm
I don't know about you guys, but I have a LOT of older games.  Many of them over 10 years old, sitting on a bookshelf.  I still play them, but most of those games have no official support now.  If the install program required that it "phoned home" it would not find a "home" out there anymore.  This makes replaying them a pain in the arse without looking for stupid cracks and other programs that are, ironically, the very same programs pirates use when the rest of us are paying money.

Anyway, not to add fire to the issue.  I see most of you seem pretty happy now that Lucky has clarified things.  As long as most of the buyers are happy I guess EA has done there job.  I'm just not sure I'm sold yet.  >:(

I was thinking the same thing, I've got a number of older games that are no longer supported either. Verification when using online services makes sense, but if the game still needs to be varified when installed (as Caryl seemed to indicate) it limits the usability of Spore...and also means the "no internet required" deal we were informed about repeatedly is still a lie.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: SBD on May 09, 2008, 08:52:11 pm
So we still need the net to install the game and any patches? So those of us without net access on our gaming machines are still screwed? Yeah, SecuROM is sounding a lot better now.  :P
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Chaosenigma on May 09, 2008, 09:06:08 pm
So we still need the net to install the game and any patches? So those of us without net access on our gaming machines are still screwed? Yeah, SecuROM is sounding a lot better now.  :P

Seeing as Caryl said we'll be able to play offline, i assume that on installation it may ask for an online connection to both authenticate and possibly download content/ patches. If not..... well you could always buy a wireless card and find someone's hotspot  ;D. Besides, if you can see these forums you're somehow connecting to the net, and not many people have gaming rig's that dont have an internet connection.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: sjon on May 10, 2008, 02:45:29 am
After thinking about the reply for a while, I'm still not convinced. Are we still totally reliant on EA when we want to install this game? This would still mean that all the original concerns about this DRM-scheme apply. Every single one of my concerns still stands. People without an internet connection still won't be able to play the game, they are still using Sony SecuRom, and we are still totally at EA's mercy when it comes to maintaining their activation servers and letting us reinstall the game multiple times.

Seeing as how most of the older game companies EA raped pillaged and plundered often no longer even have a website, let alone offer support for those games, this doesn't really inspire confidence.



And allow me to post a snippet about a game in pretty much the same situation as Spore, namely Mass Effect:

Q: What happens when I’ve reached the maximum # of computers for my game and I need more, say due to theft of computer, computer crashes, etc?

A: EA customer service is on hand to supply any additional authorizations that are warranted. This will be done on a case-by-case basis by contacting customer support.

http://kotaku.com/5008452/bioware-backs-down-from-draconian-mass-effect-authentication


Riiiiight... If the same applies to Spore, the change of no longer having to reauthenticate every 10 days was hollow and doesn't really change anything, *at all*. Mass Effect fans have been offered a tiny crumb, hoping that no one will notice the system that caused such an outrage is still completely unchanged. I guess so far only Mass Effect has been confirmed to follow in Bioshock's footsteps and we'll have to wait for even more explaining about Spore... But it doesn't look good.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: KL0k on May 10, 2008, 04:21:46 am
well... thats a worst case scenario....
that would mean, we could still need the help of the pirating-/cracker-base some day....
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DoggySpew on May 10, 2008, 06:27:50 am
well... thats a worst case scenario....
that would mean, we could still need the help of the pirating-/cracker-base some day....

I bet by then, Spore 2 is already out.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Poised on May 10, 2008, 08:07:09 am
If EA took all the money and effort invested into these legel actions against the actual consumers who buy the game, and instead invested them into legal actions against pirate sites, then maybe it would have an effect, but right now its only ticking actual customers off and swaying them to either not buy or to use a pirated version, I dont pirate at all myself, so I hope to see both mass effect and spore on steam at some point in time.
I have yet to see copy protection work, so Im buggled as to why they still insist on attacking the problem from that angle ......
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Interitus on May 10, 2008, 11:02:07 am
<snip>

I get the unique feeling you just replied to certain parts of my thread and didn't even read it all. I am annoyed because I find the limit on numbers of installation much worse then the server checking my key every 10 days.  People complained about Both DRM's, the online 10 day check and the 3 tokens. Now personally I like the 10 day check better then 3 tokens. The problem is the voices were louder against the 10 day check so they scrapped that and kept the 3 tokens.

And the comments of panic were not restricted to this board. Every where I went people were in hysterics.  And I think it's fair to say that it was an foolish assumption to even say the game would stop working if you didn't log on every 10 days which I saw on this board and others.  Now this is still mainly for Mass Effect, but when it was announced they were using the same system the Spore Community erupted. Having a system that did force you to log on every 10 days is so flawed I don't think anyone would have had the sense to use something like that, but people were afraid that was the case.

We still don't have all the information.
Quote
You'll still be able to install and play on multiple computers.
That still doesn't answer the the three key issue.

And for the record, for Mass Effect at least yes there was planned to be a big sticker on the box saying internet access required to play.

All in all they claim this is for ease, you don't need the disk in the drive to play.. honestly I'd rather just have the disk in the drive then EITHER of these options.


Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Uroboros on May 10, 2008, 11:38:43 am
I get the unique feeling you just replied to certain parts of my thread and didn't even read it all.
I must have gotten the wrong impression from that last post then.
*shrugs*
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Rutilant on May 10, 2008, 11:41:45 am
It's okay..

It'll be just like every other game with stupid copy protection. We'll all download a crack and never be bothered by it again, and if we buy the actual game, then we'll still have a legitimate account for the online features.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Petike on May 10, 2008, 12:58:34 pm
Caryl Shaw, The Lightbringer, Clearer of Muddles, Divinity Second Only to The Will Himself

Caryl, DON'T read this:



I thought Ocean is the second, since he invented the title "Spore"  ;)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Lucky on May 10, 2008, 01:17:34 pm
Caryl Shaw, The Lightbringer, Clearer of Muddles, Divinity Second Only to The Will Himself

Caryl, DON'T read this:

I thought Ocean is the second, since he invented the title "Spore"  ;)

I have no problem playing second fiddle to Ocean.  He's pretty amazing.

-caryl
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: LadyM on May 10, 2008, 04:31:16 pm
I'm really glad about this.  I'm also glad that Caryl has revealed her profile to be Lucky.
We've known that for awhile, she's posted before.

See? The Dev team does read our boards and takes our posts under consideration.

Thanks Caryl and the team for taking time to read and post here. It helped alleviate some fears. Btw.. Hydro had an alien baby named Ocean. (Sim Story #1)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: rifteroftime on May 10, 2008, 04:39:44 pm
Any info on install limits yet? Is it three installs max or is it three computers max? Or is there no limit to either? Can anyone answer this for me?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: nurizeko on May 11, 2008, 12:43:50 am
Guess I'll be buying Spore after all.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: KL0k on May 11, 2008, 01:50:43 am
...and i'll wait n read through the forums if there are any problems after release.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 11, 2008, 11:25:54 am
Any info on install limits yet? Is it three installs max or is it three computers max? Or is there no limit to either? Can anyone answer this for me?

No limits.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: happydan20 on May 11, 2008, 11:29:10 am
that hasnt been said, unless you can show me otherwise
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Len84 on May 11, 2008, 11:32:09 am
that hasnt been said, unless you can show me otherwise

The message from a producer states otherwise.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 11, 2008, 11:34:19 am
that hasnt been said, unless you can show me otherwise

Maybe you should read the main page once in a while instead of going directly to the forums:
Quote from: Gamingsteve
There has been a small firestorm concerning the Spore Digital Rights Management system. Well Maxis has been listening and Caryl Shaw, Online Producer for Spore, sent me a note about these concerns:

    Hey Spore Fans -

    We wanted to let you know that we've been hearing your concerns about the online authentication mentioned earlier this week. I didn't want to head into the weekend without getting back to you with some information about how Spore is planning on using this new system.

    A few things we wanted you to know:

        * We authenticate your game online when you install and launch it the first time.
        * We'll re-authenticate when a player uses online features, downloads new content or a patch for their game.
        * The new system means you don't have to play with the disc in your computer. And if you are like me, always losing discs, this will be a huge benefit.
        * You'll still be able to install and play on multiple computers.
        * You can play offline.

    We do hope that players will play online - sharing creatures, buildings and vehicles with other players is something that is unique to Spore and one of the coolest features of the game. Every day, when I play the Creature Stage, I get to see wacky and awesome new creatures from my Buddies on the team coming over the hill at me and I can't wait to see what happens when our creative, passionate community starts sharing their creations.

    I'd love to write more - but I need to get back to work. We've got a game to finish. :-)

    -caryl

Personally I don't see the big deal about the online DRM, especially for a game such as Spore which all but requires you to play online and communicate regularly with EA's servers. Heck, Spore is almost an MMORPG in considering all the online content that will be available for the game once it's released.

Oh yes, and if you think EA's DRM is harsh wait until you see the new DRM that Blizzard is working on for S2 and D3....

From what I understand on that line, there's no limit.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Uroboros on May 11, 2008, 11:38:31 am
"Multiple computers" doesnt necessarily translate to "infinite installs".
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 11, 2008, 11:46:25 am
"Multiple computers" doesnt necessarily translate to "infinite installs".

I know, but I see no reason for them to say multiple computers and not saying how many unless they mean infinite...
I mean, looking at all the other features they state the DRM has, there is no reason for it to not be possible to install in multiple computers. After all, if:

1. You are playing Spore with a valid serial.
2. That serial is not being used on 2 computers at the same time.

I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to install it on multiple computers, as far as you don't have them both playing Spore at the same time.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: KL0k on May 11, 2008, 12:01:46 pm
and "you can play offline" does not imply "you are not forced to activate it in a way"
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Gungnir on May 11, 2008, 12:21:36 pm
and "you can play offline" does not imply "you are not forced to activate it in a way"
What game AREN'T you forced to activate? You know those codes on the backs of manuals that you have to put in? That's activation, isn't it?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: 0goober0 on May 11, 2008, 01:51:37 pm
Quote from: Gamingsteve
        * The new system means you don't have to play with the disc in your computer. And if you are like me, always losing discs, this will be a huge benefit.

This is the best DRM ever!

100% agreed!!
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: The Time Traveller on May 11, 2008, 01:52:05 pm
Double-agreed.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 11, 2008, 02:05:32 pm
Triple-agreed.

and "you can play offline" does not imply "you are not forced to activate it in a way"

Since as far as normal people could make CD copies most games need some sort of activation.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: sjon on May 11, 2008, 02:28:23 pm
Agreed, since being forced to have the disc in the drive was a useless copy protection-enforced annoyance in the first place. No longer being forced to have the disc in the drive means this form of DRM is no longer enforced, and no DRM = best DRM ever, indeed.

It's just too bad it has been replaced with another DRM that is far more intrusive and restricting than having a cd in the drive.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Werechicken on May 11, 2008, 06:31:48 pm
Actually it used to be so that you didn't have to install all of the files onto your hard-drive, which in ye olde days of yore was quite a big issue.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Uroboros on May 11, 2008, 09:29:45 pm
Actually it used to be so that you didn't have to install all of the files onto your hard-drive, which in ye olde days of yore was quite a big issue.
I remember back when the Bladerunner PC game was new, and one of the install options was "Complete Install". When I noticed that it would take a single gig of HD space, I laughed loudly and said to the friend who was lending me it : "Oh yeah, like anyone has that much space".
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: happydan20 on May 12, 2008, 12:12:33 am
"Multiple computers" doesnt necessarily translate to "infinite installs".

exactly.

to me multiple is a limiting factor.

I can say, have a set of keys to my car... you can use it...

or

You can use my spare keys to drive my car, multiple times.

If it truly were an infinite install, why would you even need to say that?

I hate it when people spout an opinion as fact, and ridicule others who don't agree with said fact.


I'm not saying i know for a fact whether multiple means infinite or limited, but i know for a fact that none of us knows for a fact.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: sjon on May 12, 2008, 01:47:58 am
There is a very high chance that the "multiple installs" being talked about is, in fact, 3.

So if you have 2 computers you install the game on and uninstall it incorrectly on one computer, and format the other one because of a virus or hdd failure (very common), you're actually going to have to call EA to convice them you're not some filthy gaming criminal if you want to reinstall the game on those pc's. Because according to Sony's SecuROM you sure are.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: SporeForSure on May 12, 2008, 08:18:08 am
I am so glad i have spent the last 2-3 weeks living in a cave (playing games) so i have missed this discussion. Still, it was a fun read with all the wild speculation going on :D

All i want to say are these things:

1. You do not OWN a game, you OWN the RIGHT to play it... and pirates OWN copy protection code in 5 minutes.

2. Oblivion did not have a copy protection system, still it sold by millions because it was a QUALITY GAME that was FUN to play. Same thing with Space Empires 5. Maxis produce the same kind of quality games that gives you lots of replay value for your money.

3. Most pirates do NOT crack a game. A person or a group of persons cracks it, then they ship it to some torrents site with the crack and possible serial key included for the rest of the pirates, which are too stupid to figure out how to start Visual Studio.

4. Its not hard to reverse engineer the authentication process and create your own "securerom" server, so there should be no problems playing the game in the future if some EA moron decides to pull the plug on the activation server.

5. There has been good examples on limiting activation: Microsoft did put a limit on activations for Flight Simulator X, they gave you 3 activations every 6 months, after that, they got reset and you could activate 3 times again. This slowed down piracy and did not insert a foot up the consumers back entrance.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Uroboros on May 12, 2008, 09:19:35 am
There is a very high chance that the "multiple installs" being talked about is, in fact, 3.
I figured this might be the case too, still following from the Bioshock thing. This isnt a problem to me either, at least not since they added the ability to reclaim lost installs (such as forgetting them when you formatted/changed enough of your hardware/etc).
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 12, 2008, 10:08:17 am
If it truly were an infinite install, why would you even need to say that?

Oh, let me think... maybe because everyone was freaking about it saying that we would only be allowed to install it 3 times? Why would they say you can install multiple times instead of saying you can only install 3 times? as far as I know they were clarifying the rumours (among which was the one where people were saying you could only install 3x) so why would they say exactly the same thing as the rumour when clarifying it? <_<

If we could only install 3 times, they would say 3 times. Or they just would have left that one out because if it was indeed 3x then there was no need for them to tell us again.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: happydan20 on May 12, 2008, 10:41:58 am
my explanation of why they wouldnt be specific is simple.  Public relations.  If you have a feature that could be seen as unpopular than you state it in the most friendly way possible.

I could say i fired an actor because he was ****ty, or i can say he left to pursue other projects and we parted because of creative differences.  It's the same information with an entirely different spin.

IF there is a limit to installations they have to know it would be unpopular to tell us that, so they haven't.  They couldn't be accused of lying by being vague about it either, since you could take the word multiple and mean it to mean many or a set number of times.



IF there is a limit, than that would be my explanation of why they worded it the way they did.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: KL0k on May 12, 2008, 11:19:31 am
Triple-agreed.

and "you can play offline" does not imply "you are not forced to activate it in a way"

Since as far as normal people could make CD copies most games need some sort of activation.
true, but its just the fact that you cant sell a game to a person  who dont got internet access with his gaming comp, with this type of activation. sure, nowadays its not the so called "mainstream", but still potential customers, and thats not a policy for maximizin the profit, if you're going a way against them. simple as that.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 12, 2008, 11:54:40 am
I still believe there is no limit, but I'm an optimist.

All the features of the SecuROM Spore will be using are acceptable to everyone, a limit on installs would certainly ruin it all.
I bet you'll have to create some sort of account tied to your serial key, only one computer can be connected to that account at the same time which means that you can have Spore in 5 different computers if you wish to but can only access the online content from the one that connected first.
Title: One small question
Post by: Skyward on May 12, 2008, 03:45:52 pm
i don't understand,

i haven't been checking in on spore and gaming Steve for a while but when i read the topic on the front page i got confused.

i just don't entirely understand, how does this whole re-checking thing works and why is it that if you don't check in, your game doesn't work, i know its not permanent but i don't understand why.

thank you
Title: Re: One small question
Post by: The Time Traveller on May 12, 2008, 03:50:35 pm
Don't worry.  That was a rumor and was disproven by official Spore staff members.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Jennifer Reitz on May 13, 2008, 04:15:46 am

1. You do not OWN a game, you OWN the RIGHT to play it

Of all the media things I hear, this attitude is the one I absolutely detest the most. To me, it is the voice of corporate doggie submission. It is the sentiment of bending over and doing the Goatse Stretch, begging for a little fascist Donation.

1. You do not OWN your car, you OWN the RIGHT to drive it

1. You do not OWN a book, you OWN the RIGHT to read it

1. You do not OWN your shoes, you OWN the RIGHT to wear them

1. You do not OWN your land, you OWN the RIGHT to stand on it

1. You do not OWN your food, you OWN the RIGHT to eat it

1. You do not OWN your property, you OWN the RIGHT to use it

I call total, absolute horsecrap. Bullcrap is just a lie, horsecrap is an actually toxic, dangerous lie.

If you cannot own what you buy, then you do not have property. If you cannot own property, then you are nothing but a slave.

To own something, you may keep it or sell it or give it away. You may destroy it or fix it or shelve it or use it. It belongs to you, and if someone takes it from you, it is theft.

If you buy a book, a record, a sandwitch, a statue, a painting, a toy, a house or a vehicle, it is property, and you own it. You may do all of the things above to it. It is property.

Suddenly, now, the rules have changed? Suddenly now, you cannot own your game disk, your console machine, your CD, your DVD, your book, car, or.... game?

To agree with this is to agree that you have no right to own what you pay for.

I don't know how such a malicious, dangerous, and ultimately enslaving attitude has gained any traction in any persons mind, but it is intolerable. If this way of thinking is not stopped, if it is not called out, if it is not fought, then all that can come of it is total submission to corporate overlords, who ultimately will own you, because you have no right to own things yourself.

In a world where you cannot own what you buy, you yourself become property.

Stop it. Stop even thinking such toxic, wrongheaded horsecrap.

Especially oppose it the more that large corporations try to shove the notion down your throat, through legally dubious closed-box agreements discovered post-purchase. Oppose such thinking in any circumstance, because it is wrong, and because it leads to a state where only corporations can own things, and people can own nothing.

You do own your games. You own the single copy you bought, it belongs to you, just as surely as a table, a statue, or a painting.

And the day you allow that not to be true, is the day you have just been purchased yourself. 



 
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: KL0k on May 13, 2008, 04:26:49 am
*standng ovation*
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: darkwanderer on May 13, 2008, 04:28:29 am

1. You do not OWN a game, you OWN the RIGHT to play it

Of all the media things I hear, this attitude is the one I absolutely detest the most. To me, it is the voice of corporate doggie submission. It is the sentiment of bending over and doing the Goatse Stretch, begging for a little fascist Donation.

1. You do not OWN your car, you OWN the RIGHT to drive it

1. You do not OWN a book, you OWN the RIGHT to read it

1. You do not OWN your shoes, you OWN the RIGHT to wear them

1. You do not OWN your land, you OWN the RIGHT to stand on it

1. You do not OWN your food, you OWN the RIGHT to eat it

1. You do not OWN your property, you OWN the RIGHT to use it

I call total, absolute horsecrap. Bullcrap is just a lie, horsecrap is an actually toxic, dangerous lie.

If you cannot own what you buy, then you do not have property. If you cannot own property, then you are nothing but a slave.

To own something, you may keep it or sell it or give it away. You may destroy it or fix it or shelve it or use it. It belongs to you, and if someone takes it from you, it is theft.

If you buy a book, a record, a sandwitch, a statue, a painting, a toy, a house or a vehicle, it is property, and you own it. You may do all of the things above to it. It is property.

Suddenly, now, the rules have changed? Suddenly now, you cannot own your game disk, your console machine, your CD, your DVD, your book, car, or.... game?

To agree with this is to agree that you have no right to own what you pay for.

I don't know how such a malicious, dangerous, and ultimately enslaving attitude has gained any traction in any persons mind, but it is intolerable. If this way of thinking is not stopped, if it is not called out, if it is not fought, then all that can come of it is total submission to corporate overlords, who ultimately will own you, because you have no right to own things yourself.

In a world where you cannot own what you buy, you yourself become property.

Stop it. Stop even thinking such toxic, wrongheaded horsecrap.

Especially oppose it the more that large corporations try to shove the notion down your throat, through legally dubious closed-box agreements discovered post-purchase. Oppose such thinking in any circumstance, because it is wrong, and because it leads to a state where only corporations can own things, and people can own nothing.

You do own your games. You own the single copy you bought, it belongs to you, just as surely as a table, a statue, or a painting.

And the day you allow that not to be true, is the day you have just been purchased yourself. 



 

i agree, but your all missing the most important information here, which is that CREATURE CREATOR IS NEARLY A MONTH AWAY
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Quantum Burrito on May 13, 2008, 07:16:55 am
Here's the thing -- if you own that copy of the game, what happens if you copy it? If you own that copy, you should be able to sell it or give it away. Thinking about it like that doesn't make sense.

With a car, you own that car, not the blueprints to make more cars. With software, the two are one and the same. As soon as you have a copy, you can make more copies. There are two ways of dealing with this:


Personally, I think the latter makes more sense, but the former is how governments do deal, and always have dealt with it. Don't like it, create a revolutionary movement. Nothing else is going to change it.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: KL0k on May 13, 2008, 07:26:41 am
Here's the thing -- if you own that copy of the game, what happens if you copy it? If you own that copy, you should be able to sell it or give it away. Thinking about it like that doesn't make sense.

With a car, you own that car, not the blueprints to make more cars. With software, the two are one and the same. As soon as you have a copy, you can make more copies. There are two ways of dealing with this:

  • Accept purchasing rights to use a piece of software as a compromise
  • Eliminate the idea of software having "owners"

Personally, I think the latter makes more sense, but the former is how governments do deal, and always have dealt with it. Don't like it, create a revolutionary movement. Nothing else is going to change it.

for the bold thing:
you cant copy it and sell the copies or anything like that due to copyrights. so it actually is comparable with the car-example, if you think about it that way.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Quantum Burrito on May 13, 2008, 07:30:01 am
Yes, but the reason you can't copy it is because you don't own it. If you owned it, you could do what you wanted with it.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: KL0k on May 13, 2008, 07:33:12 am
nope, you could not. ever heard of the word "patent" o0
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DarkDragon on May 13, 2008, 07:42:21 am
You don't own the patent, I could make a spiderman in Spore, make his clothes green with yellow webs and call him Mike and they couldn't sue me for that.

When you buy Spore, you own a copy of Spore, you don't own the concept of Spore itself, that's why you can't make copies of it other than for yourself.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: KL0k on May 13, 2008, 07:45:11 am
exactly ^^ :)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Werechicken on May 13, 2008, 07:48:05 am
Here's the thing -- if you own that copy of the game, what happens if you copy it? If you own that copy, you should be able to sell it or give it away. Thinking about it like that doesn't make sense.

With a car, you own that car, not the blueprints to make more cars. With software, the two are one and the same. As soon as you have a copy, you can make more copies. There are two ways of dealing with this:

  • Accept purchasing rights to use a piece of software as a compromise
  • Eliminate the idea of software having "owners"

Personally, I think the latter makes more sense, but the former is how governments do deal, and always have dealt with it. Don't like it, create a revolutionary movement. Nothing else is going to change it.

Your example is flawed. You own that individual copy of the game, however due to copyright laws you do not own the rights to sell or distribute that product. The same would be true if you copied a book you owned and sold or gave away copies of that book.

Saying people don't own the software they pay for makes a mockery of consumer rights and just makes the people who do pirate such software more popular.

Also there is a topic for general debates about such things: http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=12235.0
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Quantum Burrito on May 13, 2008, 08:24:44 am
Quote
Your example is flawed. You own that individual copy of the game, however due to copyright laws you do not own the rights to sell or distribute that product. The same would be true if you copied a book you owned and sold or gave away copies of that book.

If you owned the copy, it would be yours to do with what you pleased. You own the packaging, and the disk, and can do whatever the hell you want with them. The rights of ownership include the things that you are being restricted from doing. Therefore, you do not own the copy of the game. In fact, the the law was written with this express intention from pretty much day one. Well, for computer software. You don't own a copy of the game. "Copy" is too nebulously defined. You own the right to use/play it. It doesn't matter which "copy" you use.

You can buy spore, and as soon as it's yours, you can download and play a pirate copy, completely legally. Because it's not the copy you own, it's the right to play it. If you disagree with the EULA, you still own the packaging, and the disk, but cannot play the game. Because you don't own it (you can, however, return the packaging to EA for a full refund).

I'm not saying I agree with this, but that's the way it is.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: KL0k on May 13, 2008, 08:46:30 am
okay, if you wanna cripple it down to this level... the only thing you own is the serialcode. they could sell just the legit key in a email with a download link to the game or could even say "screw you, see for yourself where you get it"... oh wait, we already have a scenario like that nowadays (steam, mmo's, blah)..
it just depends on the point of view.
you dont own the patent with the bought copy of the game, you bought the right to play it on your comp, but you own the disc (you can throw it in a bin, burn it down, who cares? nobody, cause you own it). thats a fact. no matter how often or in which direction you wanna turn it.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Quantum Burrito on May 13, 2008, 08:50:40 am
okay, if you wanna cripple it down to this level... the only thing you own is the serialcode. they could sell just the legit key in a email with a download link to the game or could even say "screw you, see for yourself where you get it"... oh wait, we already have a scenario like that nowadays (steam, mmo's, blah)..
it just depends on the point of view.
you dont own the patent with the bought copy of the game, you bought the right to play it on your comp, but you own the disc (you can throw it in a bin, burn it down, who cares? nobody, cause you own it). thats a fact. no matter how often or in which direction you wanna turn it.

Read my damn post. I already said that. You own the physical item. You own the right the play the game. You do not own the "copy" of the game. That's the computer data, and by law EA retains ownership.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Zoston on May 13, 2008, 09:04:30 am

1. You do not OWN a game, you OWN the RIGHT to play it

Of all the media things I hear, this attitude is the one I absolutely detest the most. To me, it is the voice of corporate doggie submission. It is the sentiment of bending over and doing the Goatse Stretch, begging for a little fascist Donation.

1. You do not OWN your car, you OWN the RIGHT to drive it

[snipped for quote brevity]

You do own your games. You own the single copy you bought, it belongs to you, just as surely as a table, a statue, or a painting.

And the day you allow that not to be true, is the day you have just been purchased yourself. 

I want to add the point that, though I agree with the basic tenant, it will never come to the point of consumer 'enslavement', it will crash and burn long before it comes to that under it's own brokenness. However anybody interested in the well-being of the gaming industry shouldn't be sitting by and letting companies go on this path that will only end up with them crashing and burning possibly taking huge chunks of the gaming market with them. The logic behind this is stupid, the methods used are stupid, though the sentiment is understandable but all this will lead to is companies crashing and burning as they squeeze the very life out of whatever market their obsessing about in an obsessive hunt for a few rotten apples who wouldn't have bought their stuff anyways. It will be much better for everyone if people make a stand now and don't let it come to the point where companies have to learn the hard way that not trusting your consumers and wanting to control them like they're some kind of guilty-until-proven-innocent-criminals is not the way to build stable, healthy and loyal consumer markets.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: sjon on May 13, 2008, 11:12:11 am
What a pointless sidetrack for such an important topic.

The fact that you don't own the code in a videogame doesn't mean you don't own your purchased videogames just the same as not owning the patents for fuel injection would mean you don't own your purchased car. Having a futuristic 3d-printer would still not allow you to make copies of your car and sell them at your leisure, because doing so would violate patents.

If you want to argue you don't own games because of patents, the same would apply to pretty much anything, meaning you don't really "own" anything. Although I personally don't agree with this notion it would make an interesting discussion. But this really has much too little to do with the subject at hand to be discussing it in Spore: General.

Although... I do agree that we will never own Spore, Mass Effect and other games using EA's (well actually, Sony's) latest and greatest form of DRM, seeing as how they can prevent you from even playing the game at the flick of a switch.

Bioshock set a standard alright...
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Creature963 on May 13, 2008, 11:32:58 am
4. Its not hard to reverse engineer the authentication process and create your own "securerom" server, so there should be no problems playing the game in the future if some EA moron decides to pull the plug on the activation server.

If you figure out how to do this, you must let me know how. I'll, um...write you a love song in exchange?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: sjon on May 13, 2008, 11:45:54 am
4. Its not hard to reverse engineer the authentication process and create your own "securerom" server, so there should be no problems playing the game in the future if some EA moron decides to pull the plug on the activation server.

If you figure out how to do this, you must let me know how. I'll, um...write you a love song in exchange?

While I don't claim to have any idea how difficult such things are, fact is that World of Warcraft and even Microsoft's online authentication systems are seemingly quite easily fooled when you tell the software to connect to a fake server at the click of a button. Allowing you to get the green light in order to download stuff like the latest media player for windows, or bypass the security altogether by connecting to a private server in the case of WoW.

It's very unlikely anyone pirating these games is even going to notice the new copy protection, just the people who are actually buying them.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: KL0k on May 13, 2008, 01:29:13 pm
and thats the point.
there is just no actual copy protection, that works effective against piracy.
they're even able to develop a workaround for "tages" which is one of the most complicated/annoying for everyone, customers and pirates..... so guess what this activation stuff will endup with... i'd place a bet, that a crack is out till one day after the official releasedate, if not even before the releasedate itself...
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: nicholasneko on May 15, 2008, 11:43:08 am
So, aside the point that i pretty much cd crack all the games i own just so i don't have to deal with finding and swapping disks to play a game, or burn the .iso's to my pc so it saves time reinstalling and is still easier to use then swapping physical disks, and less wear and tear.

I did find one system of protection i have to say i did not mind.. well 2 but they are almost one in the same. the way steam does it, and the way company of heroes does it. with company of heroes its a better example.

When you start the game you can either put in the CD to play, even after starting the game. Or you can log into your account which is used for multiplayer as well as updates and what not, which has your keys registered to it so you can play with out the CDs, it also can auto log you in.

Then there is steam which i personally love. I can buy games right from their online store, or else where and put in the key. now i have the game registered always to me. I reinstall and all i have to do is double click a few things and walk away, it downloads and installs them with no hassle. Now if it only worked with more games i would be happy, as many games you can buy through steam you can't register there if you get them else where.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Werechicken on May 15, 2008, 12:53:24 pm
I find it interesting that one of the contributors to the idea of spore was the cracks some people made in the past. I wonder what this generations game cracks will inspire?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: happydan20 on May 15, 2008, 05:31:43 pm
i have no idea what you're talking about, could you explain, were?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Lippy on May 15, 2008, 07:36:51 pm
The people who cracked games in the 80's would sometimes put on the disk procedural animations as credits, to show who cracked it.   They would do it procedurally so it could fit on the little space that was usually left on a game disc. 

Want to learn more?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoscene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoscene) 

They can do some pretty wild stuff in only a few KB.

Oh, and it's this demoscene that Will has credited for pioneering all of the procedural stuff that is going into Spore. 
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: happydan20 on May 15, 2008, 09:59:30 pm
i learned about that though will, but i didnt know about the crack connection, thats neat
Title: So: What did we agree on with the SecuRom?
Post by: thorjarle on August 04, 2008, 02:12:39 pm
Alot of chatting in this thread:
http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=12211.0

What did we find out about the copy-protection on Spore?
Title: Re: So: What did we agree on with the SecuRom?
Post by: xirtap on August 04, 2008, 03:08:30 pm
Alot of chatting in this thread:
http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=12211.0

What did we find out about the copy-protection on Spore?
Quote from: Wikipedia
Digital rights management
Spore will be using a modified version of digital rights management (DRM) software SecuROM as copy prevention, which will require authentication upon installation and when online access is used. This system was announced after the originally planned system met opposition from the public, as it would have required authentication every ten days.[63] It was also announced that Spore will be playable without a disc after installation.[64] A disadvantage of this DRM software is that it does not allow one user to login to his/her Spore profile on another user's copy of the game, and that it has a proposed limit of 3 times a user can install the product. The installation limit is triggered each time a user changes certain pieces of hardware, reformats the computer, or installs/upgrades a new operating system.[65] Furthermore, when a user uninstalls Spore, the installation count is not reset.[66]

EA Customer Support, however, states that EA can be contacted by the user and have, on a case-by-case criteria, their activation count for Spore reset when the activation limit is depleted.[67]

I think we got pretty f***ed.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Zycke on August 04, 2008, 03:14:18 pm
nicely put :(
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Beatnuki on August 04, 2008, 03:15:26 pm
That's just stupid. How is it a game that's supposed to last forever if we can't upgrade or anything?

Seriously. The three install limit thing is the one major outrage to me at least, and the rest of it's already been hard to swallow.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Zamaza on August 04, 2008, 03:34:51 pm
The three install thing is really the only thing I have a problem with, and it doesn't take long to get another by phone (though it is an unnecessary pain in the butt).

Loging in on another's cpu isn't that big of a deal because you can get just about everything off sporepedia (it's shared) unless you want that specific save. Could be a problem in multi-user and multi-cpu households.

Also that's from WIKIPEDIA so, until we get the game, we really won't know what we get.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on August 04, 2008, 03:47:59 pm
the info is wrongly put. It's not that you can only install the game three times, you can only install three parrallell copies (on 3 computers). securom servers remember your install state of the 3 instances and you just have to uninstall the game befor you install it on another pc.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DaMuncha on August 05, 2008, 07:06:05 am
And what if your computer crashes or gets a virus or you change hardware?... Then thats another install. And your back to square one, another game you've bought that doesnt work because companies like EA are greedy. Its not enough that they own most of all the game companies, they have to try and make you never want to buy another game again. They are killing the computer game industry.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Necrox on August 05, 2008, 02:18:17 pm
And what if your computer crashes or gets a virus or you change hardware?... Then thats another install. And your back to square one, another game you've bought that doesnt work because companies like EA are greedy. Its not enough that they own most of all the game companies, they have to try and make you never want to buy another game again. They are killing the computer game industry.

Not to mention the rootkit issues. SecuROM claims their "product" doesn't contain a rootkit, but many disagree. Just look around and see what you find.
I guess a lot of us are still feeling the burn of the Sony copy protection blast, which installed a rootkit on your PC that could disable your DVD drive even if you did nothing wrong, so you could never use it again - without a complete reinstallation of Windows anyway. Not to mention that because of the rootkit nature of the copy protection software, it left a wide open security hole in your PC where viruses could settle themselves while being completely undetectable by any AntiVirus program.
I know I for one start getting paranoid when a company as big as Sony makes ****-ups on that scale.

Copy protection more often harms a legitimate buyer than it harms a pirate.
The only reason they have them is for their share-holder meetings - in reality it has very little to do with preventing pirating. Ther share holders know bugger all about copy protection or the pirate scene, but the fact that EA shows a fancy program with lots of features to "protect" their software eases the minds of the share holders, and keeps the cashflow coming.
At the further expense of consumers.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Null on August 05, 2008, 03:21:22 pm
As long as it does not impede my game experience and such, I dont give a damn. I don't think I will have spore installed on more than 1 computer since only one of mine can run it. So I am cool with it.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Necrox on August 05, 2008, 11:40:27 pm
You don't give a damn if it installs a rootkit that disables your DVD drive so you have to reinstall windows and lets virus into your PC?
I'm not saying this is what will happen with this version of SecuROM, I just wanted to know if you were replying to my message or the ones above it.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: CosmicD on August 06, 2008, 12:15:59 am
lol, a belgian politician once said: let's solve a problem when there is one...
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Slartibartfast on August 06, 2008, 12:53:13 am
“Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.” -- Albert Einstein
 
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: DaMuncha on August 06, 2008, 01:27:25 am
"If its not broke, dont fix it" -- dad
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Lippy on August 06, 2008, 08:28:58 am
"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again." - American educator Thomas H. Palmer

I believe this is SecuROM's slogan. 
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: econundrum on August 06, 2008, 08:38:11 am
“Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.” -- Albert Einstein
 


Which problems did Einstein actually prevent?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: j99450 on August 06, 2008, 08:40:05 am
Germany getting an A-bomb?
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Null on August 06, 2008, 10:00:55 am
Quote
I'm not saying this is what will happen with this version of SecuROM, I just wanted to know if you were replying to my message or the ones above it.

Oh, the ones above it. I find it, say, highly unlikely that my dvd drive will be disabled though. It would be colossally stupid on their part to have any side-effects and ones that major are well…

It sounds sort of like an alarmist, worst-case nightmare scenario. Like the world ending in the year 2000 or something. I am aware that there may be some risks but if it doesn’t affect the game or my computer negatively I don’t care if there are extra security measures.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Necrox on August 06, 2008, 10:49:35 am
Quote
I'm not saying this is what will happen with this version of SecuROM, I just wanted to know if you were replying to my message or the ones above it.

Oh, the ones above it. I find it, say, highly unlikely that my dvd drive will be disabled though. It would be colossally stupid on their part to have any side-effects and ones that major are well…

It sounds sort of like an alarmist, worst-case nightmare scenario. Like the world ending in the year 2000 or something. I am aware that there may be some risks but if it doesn’t affect the game or my computer negatively I don’t care if there are extra security measures.

Oh I agree that it would be horribly stupid - but like I said; Sony managed it anyway ;) And that's a fact you can look up, not guessing :)
(example source - there are many more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/02/AR2005110202362.html)
And also like I said: I'm not saying that it WILL happen again, I'm just saying some of us have been put off it a bit. Like all our customers calling in to the support line I worked on, with DVD drives that didn't work when that problem hit. And then there was the hidden issues with security.
I also seem to recall there was something with the copy protection EA used for Sims 2 that caused similar issues (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SecuROM#The_Sims_controversy).

I have no problem with the concept of copy protection. My faith in their ability to not mess up my PC is just... less than overwhelming.
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: WeatherMAN on August 06, 2008, 11:18:46 am
I guess my biggest concern about this right now is the whole "3 installs period" stance they are taking... uninstalling the game doesn't give you your install back... I will install it on my laptop and desktop, I am down to one install left so the next time I format or upgrade my computer I am out of install without calling EA customer support... So this essentially works like Bioshock did to cause the entire controversy.. STUPID... really, EA and Maxis, can you really be so stupid as to have a security system on their that acts in such a way as to cause a huge uproar already on Bioshock and Mass Effect (the 2 biggest game releases recently with secuROM)...

I shouldn't have to call customer support and jump through hoops to install my game I bought on my own computer... and if it becomes a hassle maybe this paying customer will have to find ways to avoid being treated as a pirate, ironically, by becoming one...
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Cosmosis on August 07, 2008, 02:15:39 am
"Dialogue is only to be considered, when all violent methods has been depleted!"
- Dolph the hippopotamus. (sarcastically named after Dolph Lundgren)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: ashevm on August 07, 2008, 03:40:42 am
This would never had happened to Spore if they had released in 2006 as promised! :)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: pitimor on August 12, 2008, 04:41:34 am
But you know, after they implemented this in Mass Effect, there were so many complaints about this re-activation 10 days, they removed it after rather short period of time. So maybe they will be wise enough to remove this thing on the spot, or there will be complaints again. But this DVD disabling thing... If it messes up my brand new recorder... THERE WILL BE BLOOD!!! (And I don't mean I'll cut myself.)
Title: Re: Ack...SecuROM....(WARNING: RUMOR)
Post by: Captain Indigo on August 12, 2008, 04:46:33 am
This would never had happened to Spore if they had released in 2006 as promised! :)

And it'd've been far worse than the Spore that exists today.

Also, as far as I know, there's no SecuROM for macs - oh yes ^^
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: legojedij on September 21, 2008, 06:28:22 pm
hi I just joined here and my first question is is the disk protection (sucrom) as bad for people as they say it is. can it really destroy my computer.  if so should i wait to get spore till they remove it?
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: happydan20 on September 21, 2008, 06:32:41 pm
i absolutely hate securom.  It will run processes when you do or dont play the game, it can slow down your computer a bit because of the constant running. 

but no its not going to destroy your computer.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Blissmaker on September 21, 2008, 06:33:02 pm
It doesn't destroy your computer, it just makes it turn into a living being that hates you for putting "sucrom" on it.



Oh, you mean SECUROM! I haven't had any problems with it thus far.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: Miclee on September 21, 2008, 06:33:34 pm
i absolutely hate securom.  It will run processes when you do or dont play the game, it can slow down your computer a bit because of the constant running. 

but no its not going to destroy your computer.
I haven't noticed anything.
Title: Re: Sony's secuROM
Post by: legojedij on September 21, 2008, 06:36:06 pm
ok thanks. i guess I will get spore for christmas (i cant take it, everybody has spore but me :P i still have the trial cc)