Author Topic: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)  (Read 86237 times)

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Offline emmet

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #300 on: May 05, 2011, 03:20:35 pm »
Experiences are base justification. The only way we can perceive is by experience, and if we don't take experience for granted then we can prove or accept nothing.
No way dude, you're trolling me.

Offline munchkin5

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #301 on: May 05, 2011, 03:25:30 pm »
And it looks like you're just using circular logic. So your experience justifies your existence, through the use of the anthropic principle. But then how do you justify your experiences? Wouldn't that rely on you actually 'existing'  in the first place? Circular logic doesn't work, because circular logic says so.

But thats the point, its a tautology that i experience therefore i exist, i have to exist in some capacity before experience is even possible.

I could try a proof by contradiction, suppose first i don't exist, then add in the self evident fact that i can and do experience things. The first condition makes the second impossible therefore the first condition must be false. The first condition being false implies that i do exist, therefore i exist.

It's a simple logical line of reasoning, you'd have to have a pretty weird defintion of nonexistence before my experience is compatible with it.

And just to clear something up:
But then how do you justify your experiences? Wouldn't that rely on you actually 'existing'  in the first place?

Nope, the experience is self evident. Of course to experience something i would need to exist, but i do experience things, so there's your experimental proof too.

Offline emmet

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #302 on: May 05, 2011, 03:27:13 pm »
It's so dumb to question whether you experience things.

The act of questioning it is an experience.
No way dude, you're trolling me.

Offline munchkin5

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #303 on: May 05, 2011, 03:28:33 pm »
My point exactly

Offline emmet

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #304 on: May 05, 2011, 03:30:25 pm »
Pretty much one of the only legitimate self evident facts.
No way dude, you're trolling me.

Offline Josasa

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #305 on: May 05, 2011, 03:35:07 pm »
HOW is the act of questioning something an experience? You guys are making an awful lot of assumptions.

And you must remember, NO question is ever a dumb question. Where would we be if we didn't start to question things?

Offline munchkin5

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #306 on: May 05, 2011, 03:36:30 pm »
No this:

HOW is the act of questioning something an experience?

Is a dumb question.

Offline Josasa

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #307 on: May 05, 2011, 04:06:08 pm »
Thanks for adding to the argument.

Offline Neoadept

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #308 on: May 05, 2011, 04:07:23 pm »
Okay, put forth an alternate hypothesis.  What is the alternative to existence that logically explains observed phenomena, in this case, the sensation of external phenomena?  This is not an alternative for the existence of the phenomena, as these could be replicated, but rather the existence of the entity collecting sensory data from said phenomena.

For the life of me, I can't think of an alternative to existence that explains my experiencing things.
Nefarious?  Nearly.  Ne’er-do-well?  Never!  Neither nearly names this narrator.  Naive and knowledgeable, notorious and inscrutable, this nascent Nero is known naturally as Neoadept.

Offline munchkin5

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #309 on: May 05, 2011, 04:10:04 pm »
I'm pretty much going to go ahead and define experience as the awareness of existence, and now I have a completely watertight argument, I'm going to bed.

Offline Josasa

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #310 on: May 05, 2011, 04:35:15 pm »
What part of "you" actually exists? Is it your body? Is it your brain? Is it your mind (even those this is connected with the brain)? I know this is part of the argument that existed before, and many people disagreed on the specifics. But for all intents and purposes, let's just say that your brain (and therefore your mind) represents "you."

But what do you actually control about your mind or your brain? The brain is just a connection of neurons that react when certain processes fire off in your brain. And, as many neuroscientists and psychologists have determined, the mind simply arises out of the brain. So what do you actually control from this whole system? Looking further into, nothing. You exert no control over the laws of the universe. Your brain follows a series of predetermined processes that determine what actions will be acted out and the thoughts that "you" will think. All these "experiences" that "you" have "experienced" are really just the course of action that was meant to happen from the beginning of time. You have no control over them, just like you have no control over the universe. You can't influence whether a comet ends up smashing into the earth, just like you can't actively influence the next time it will rain.

"You" don't exist.

So now this comes down to a debate between free will and determinism.

Offline Neoadept

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #311 on: May 05, 2011, 05:03:52 pm »
Technically, there's a good chance the universe is probabilistic, though that doesn't give any more credence to free will than determinism.

Honestly though, the "self" is not reliant upon free will unless you choose to define it that way.

As I said, I define my "self" as the wave front of energies that describe my current state.  All my decisions are based entirely upon external stimuli interacting with this wave front.  I am a ripple of a dropped stone, modified by the ripples cast by a billion other stones.  I know that this ripple exists by the virtue that this thought is the direct result of the ripple's interaction, and is, in fact, indistinguishable.  As the collection of memories, personality, and miscellaneous other components that make me up cannot exist independent of the ripple and are defined entirely by the ripple's shape and momentum, I choose not to differentiate between the two.  I am the ripple, I am the wavefront.

Whether or not free will enters into that equation is irrelevant.

...

Has anyone else ever wondered if the ocean is sentient?  The pressure differentials in that much water potentially offer vast amounts of computation power, and it's existed longer than life has.  Any emergent self perpetuating patterns in it would be enormously fragile as compared to coherent life, but are still theoretically possible.

*ponders the possibility of communicating with the ocean*
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 05:08:30 pm by Neoadept »
Nefarious?  Nearly.  Ne’er-do-well?  Never!  Neither nearly names this narrator.  Naive and knowledgeable, notorious and inscrutable, this nascent Nero is known naturally as Neoadept.

Offline emmet

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #312 on: May 05, 2011, 05:24:11 pm »
I've entertained the thought, but don't really believe in the possibility at all. Our current understanding of life, let alone sentient life, seems to depend on the interaction of several different compounds and elements.

Also, the idea of a self-perpetuating, evolving ocean current is more than a little ridiculous.
No way dude, you're trolling me.

Offline Josasa

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #313 on: May 05, 2011, 06:47:58 pm »
That's a very interesting thought process Neo (Tesla is just a negative Nancy ;))

In all honesty, I feel these debates are a little out of our grasp. Still fun to think about them though.

Offline /lurk

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #314 on: May 05, 2011, 09:43:46 pm »
Wait I thought we already established that there was no free will ages ago. Making decisions without being coerced counts as free will for moral dilemmas, but the universe is probabilistic and there's no room for magic pixies in your brain.


Neo sure is eloquent though.


Edit: the entropy of the ocean is just way too high for something like that to perpetuate itself.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 09:47:06 pm by /lurk »
Not a winner anymore.