Author Topic: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)  (Read 86234 times)

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Offline Great Distance

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #225 on: May 04, 2011, 11:30:26 pm »
Thats what I got too.

According to the writeup I apparently should have taken the teleporter instead of the spaceship at the start, but that seems to be ignoring the idea that continuity is important. With the teleporter there is a very high chance that the 'me' which goes in one end instantly dies, that is to say, that I personally am not the fortunate transporter clone which wakes up brand new with a lifetime of memories.

Same thing here.

Haven't we talked about teleporter continuity here before? I remember the subject coming up once.

Honestly, I'm surprised how many people went for it. As I recall there was only one guy who figured that an exact copy had a magical hivemind with the original last time, but now there's a few people who think quantum maaaaagic will keep them alive after they throw themselves into the disintegrator.


I got this result as well.

Although the new me would experience all the things I would have otherwise experienced in my life, and for the whole world it wouldn't make a difference if it's me or the copy out there, I don't think that's enough for me. It's still not me who gets to experience those things. I mean, sure, I could take the teletransporter if I reasoned it some other way, but the test asked me to choose the option that would best ensure my survival. And the way I understand it, taking the teletransporter is a 100% chance for me to die. Sure, for others it will seem that I'm still alive, and for the new version of me as well, but what about me? I'll be dead. Gone. There will be someone else seeing the world with my eyes, but it won't be me. I'll never get to see a goddamn thing again.

Offline emmet

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #226 on: May 05, 2011, 07:07:55 am »
Yeah. The last thing you experience would be stepping into the transporter and getting vaporised.
No way dude, you're trolling me.

Offline Flisch

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #227 on: May 05, 2011, 07:19:36 am »
Except, you wake up on the other side. And even if you don't, unless you believe in an afterlife, nothing really happens and a "copy" of you continues.

So what's the deal?
There is, of course, a difference between having a laugh with someone, and having a laugh at their expense

Offline Didero

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #228 on: May 05, 2011, 07:33:15 am »
Except, you wake up on the other side. And even if you don't, unless you believe in an afterlife, nothing really happens and a "copy" of you continues.

So what's the deal?
Because you don't wake up on the other side. You get completely deconstructed, so you cease to exist. The fact that an exact copy of you gets assembled in another location doesn't change that fact.

Offline emmet

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #229 on: May 05, 2011, 08:22:30 am »
It's not you. It's just another person convinced it's you.

If I was about to murder you, but told you that I was going to implant all your memories and personality into another victim of mine using some advanced technology, so that that person walked away scot-free, convinced that he was you and had just been let go, would that comfort you? I very much doubt it.
No way dude, you're trolling me.

Offline Flisch

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #230 on: May 05, 2011, 10:06:18 am »
Well... yeah it would... Of course we are talking about a nonconditional and degrade-free transplantation of all memories and emotions to the other body. So yeah... I'd be fine with that. After all you're never the same person you are from birth. Every single cell in your body will have been replaced at least once. (With the possible exception of the bones, but last time I checked they don't carry a consciousness.)

Of course we assume that the other person's consciousness will be removed. I don't wanna have any split personalities in my new body.
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Offline Didero

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #231 on: May 05, 2011, 10:10:23 am »
After all you're never the same person you are from birth. Every single cell in your body will have been replaced at least once. (With the possible exception of the bones, but last time I checked they don't carry a consciousness.)
The only constant through all that is your consciousness though. And when you completely deconstruct your body, your consciousness stops. You will stop existing.
The fact that a completely identical clone is build somewhere else doesn't change anything about the fact that you will be dead.

Offline munchkin5

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #232 on: May 05, 2011, 10:14:17 am »
Being dead might not be half bad though, if igonrance is bliss and death is the ultimate ignorance then consequently death = ultimate bliss.

Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #233 on: May 05, 2011, 10:15:10 am »
Well... yeah it would... Of course we are talking about a nonconditional and degrade-free transplantation of all memories and emotions to the other body. So yeah... I'd be fine with that. After all you're never the same person you are from birth. Every single cell in your body will have been replaced at least once. (With the possible exception of the bones, but last time I checked they don't carry a consciousness.)

Of course we assume that the other person's consciousness will be removed. I don't wanna have any split personalities in my new body.

Yes, but flisch, there is no continuity. YOU DIE. For everyone else its like you never left, but the you that goes in the teleporter instantly dies.

Take this analogy.

You buy a guitar. Through playing it, naturally the strings break from time to time and need replacing. Then when you are moving house a builder puts his foot through the body and it has to be replaced. Some years later while imitating Metal icons of the ages you smash the guitar against a bandmate's head and the neck breaks and has to be replaced.

Is it the same guitar now that every part has been replaced, is it the same guitar? Arguably yes, arguably no, its pretty ambiguous.
However, one thing most people would agree on is its more the same guitar than if you just bought a brand new guitar and replaced the old one.

Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline Flisch

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #234 on: May 05, 2011, 10:22:02 am »
*rolls eyes*


FINE, different approach. It's metaphysics metaphor time!

I write a story. An ongoing story. Like a giant book. Every time a page gets crumbled or starts to degrade, I will write down all letters of that page onto a fresh new one and replace the old one with it. Over time all the pages are replaced. It's still the same story. Now I say "Hey I want to show someone else my awesome story, but sending them the book is too expensive." So instead of sending them a physical copy, I send them the story via binary code. They have a decoder that automatically prints the decoded stuff onto blank new pages smewhere else and also makes it into a book. (Depending on how far you want to go with the clone idea, you could say they try to produce the exact same replica.)

How is the stoy he receives NOT the story you have written? It's exactly the same.

Of course, you'd also have to throw your book into the fires of mount doom, because two copies of the same story is simply irresponsible.


Well... yeah it would... Of course we are talking about a nonconditional and degrade-free transplantation of all memories and emotions to the other body. So yeah... I'd be fine with that. After all you're never the same person you are from birth. Every single cell in your body will have been replaced at least once. (With the possible exception of the bones, but last time I checked they don't carry a consciousness.)

Of course we assume that the other person's consciousness will be removed. I don't wanna have any split personalities in my new body.

Yes, but flisch, there is no continuity. YOU DIE. For everyone else its like you never left, but the you that goes in the teleporter instantly dies.

Take this analogy.

You buy a guitar. Through playing it, naturally the strings break from time to time and need replacing. Then when you are moving house a builder puts his foot through the body and it has to be replaced. Some years later while imitating Metal icons of the ages you smash the guitar against a bandmate's head and the neck breaks and has to be replaced.

Is it the same guitar now that every part has been replaced, is it the same guitar? Arguably yes, arguably no, its pretty ambiguous.
However, one thing most people would agree on is its more the same guitar than if you just bought a brand new guitar and replaced the old one.


How is a guitar an analogy to your mind. If anything it's an analogy to your body, and I agree with everyone who says that the new body is not YOUR body, as it isn't made of the same atoms. (Unless string theory is involved. lol)

Addendum: If anyone is going to say the story is destroyed by throwing the original book into mount doom, I am going to smack that person with the definition of a story. (Hint: A story is not a physical object.)
There is, of course, a difference between having a laugh with someone, and having a laugh at their expense

Offline munchkin5

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #235 on: May 05, 2011, 10:25:37 am »
I believe what you were thinking of was the "Trigger's Broom Analogy" Sam:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbha4XclSMU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbha4XclSMU</a>

Also, Flisch, the mind is the physical brain, if that is destroyed so is the mind. In the case of your analgoy the best i think of to make this fit would be to say if you swapped the books the person reading them wouldn't know, but he wouldn't be reading the same book.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 10:27:22 am by munchkin5 »

Offline Flisch

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #236 on: May 05, 2011, 10:28:14 am »
Also, Flisch, the mind is the physical brain, if that is destroyed so is the mind.
No, the mind is an abstract thing that is created and can only exist through the brain or another structure that mimics a brain.


In the case of your analgoy the best i think of to make this fit would be to say if you swapped the books the person reading them wouldn't know, but he wouldn't be reading the same book.
But we are not talking about switching two identical bodies with identical minds, we are talking about transportalization.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 10:31:06 am by Flisch »
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Offline /lurk

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #237 on: May 05, 2011, 10:32:31 am »
All the different analogies people are using are getting everything confused. It's easier to stick to the teleporter idea and just tweak it a bit. Suppose the teleporter doesn't vapourise you when it scans you, so it creates a clone when you're still there. The clone clearly isn't you, and this doesn't change just because you died when you were scanned.


The story analogy doesn't work because a story isn't a physical object, but a human being is.



Edit: Oh, also:

Of course, you'd also have to throw your book into the fires of mount doom, because two copies of the same story is simply irresponsible.

Way to destroy that priceless first edition manuscript. You could have at least auctioned it for charity.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 10:36:41 am by /lurk »
Not a winner anymore.

Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #238 on: May 05, 2011, 10:33:10 am »
No Flisch, for your book analogy to corrsepond to the transporter you just threw out the book and it got written out again in exactly the same way.

If you replaced each page as it wore out then thats more analogous to the brain replacement surgery you can get when you contract the brain-rewiring virus.
Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline munchkin5

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Re: What's Philosophy Do You Follow? (Quiz)
« Reply #239 on: May 05, 2011, 10:36:58 am »
Also, Flisch, the mind is the physical brain, if that is destroyed so is the mind.
No, the mind is an abstract thing that is created and can only exist through the brain or another structure that mimics a brain.

Even with that definition destroying the brain still destroys the mind.

As another point, if the transporter didn't destroy the person in the departure bay but still built a new one at the other end, they wouldn't be the same person, so why would it be the same person if the original brain is destroyed? (EDIT: didn't see lurk's post there, but this is pretty much the same point)

In the case of your analogy the best i think of to make this fit would be to say if you swapped the books the person reading them wouldn't know, but he wouldn't be reading the same book.
But we are not talking about switching two identical bodies with identical minds, we are talking about transportalization.

Its the same as destroying the first one and replacing it with a copy, just in different places.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 10:41:37 am by munchkin5 »