Author Topic: 2016 Election  (Read 143051 times)

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Offline Yokto

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Re: 2016 Election
« Reply #2835 on: April 15, 2017, 05:02:42 am »
And apologize is what Spicer eventually did.

Good for him. It was the right thing to do.

(I have not followed it all I will admit. So I did not know when I made the post if he had.)
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Offline PatMan33

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Re: 2016 Election
« Reply #2836 on: April 15, 2017, 09:04:16 am »
Honestly, the boys back in 1804 sure as hell would have their heads spinning with the amount of transparency we have with almost everything due to the internet and media. Doubt anyone really even considered it till the bush years

This is a neat thought to explore. Because you're right, despite our complaints, the government has probably never been more open and transparent in history. This probably colors the opinions of followers of so-called Originalism.

Offline Krakow Sam

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Re: 2016 Election
« Reply #2837 on: April 15, 2017, 10:20:49 am »
That's true but I feel like that may be balance out slightly by the fact governments now are far bigger and more complex than they were in most of history.

The process is more open but if you did want to obfuscate and hide your dirty deeds, shift blame or confuse issues it's easier now there's a million offices and institutions to hide behind rather than a guy sitting behind a big desk in the governor's mansion.

These days if you want to pretend you never saw a document then you say some intern deleted the email or there was a systems failure, oops! Back in the day you'd have to kill the mailman that delivered those important documents to your office to make anyone believe you didn't clap eyes on that missive.

Swings and roundabouts.
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Offline Yokto

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Re: 2016 Election
« Reply #2838 on: April 15, 2017, 11:11:26 am »
And compared to some countries USA is not that transparent.

Holding the year 1804 as a golden standard for how government should be I think is a grave error. USA was not that perfect then. Only Rich White Guys really had power in politics. And while they still do hold a lot of power today at least others can now actually have a effect. (And boy would thing change a lot of US citizens just realised what power they truly have)
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Offline eropS

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Re: 2016 Election
« Reply #2839 on: April 15, 2017, 02:11:53 pm »
Lol it wasn't a gold standard it was a random date to show that things like this would never have even been under consideration in our old govt so it's not like there's some standard of transparency for US
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Offline Plank of Wood

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Re: 2016 Election
« Reply #2840 on: April 15, 2017, 10:56:51 pm »
That's true but I feel like that may be balance out slightly by the fact governments now are far bigger and more complex than they were in most of history.

The process is more open but if you did want to obfuscate and hide your dirty deeds, shift blame or confuse issues it's easier now there's a million offices and institutions to hide behind rather than a guy sitting behind a big desk in the governor's mansion.

These days if you want to pretend you never saw a document then you say some intern deleted the email or there was a systems failure, oops! Back in the day you'd have to kill the mailman that delivered those important documents to your office to make anyone believe you didn't clap eyes on that missive.

Swings and roundabouts.

Reminds me of the scene in the Thick of It where to prevent a corruption scandal from leaking they just leaked to the media every single piece of mildly relevant data they had, knowing that journalists would be unable to sift through everything before the minister could be discreetly fired.

It's easy to cover up wrongdoing if wrongdoing is hidden beneath 15 layers of boring bureaucracy,
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Offline Yokto

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Re: 2016 Election
« Reply #2841 on: April 16, 2017, 06:00:18 pm »
Lol it wasn't a gold standard it was a random date to show that things like this would never have even been under consideration in our old govt so it's not like there's some standard of transparency for US

Yeah. Just saying that even if it was not considered that weird before it does not mean it was a good thing. Some thing are not considered to be a problem or weird until a change happens that shows a better way. Transparency in government is one of those things.
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Offline eropS

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No, no, he did. In the everything else section, at least. Officially, this makes him king.

Offline Inkling

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Re: 2016 Election
« Reply #2844 on: April 24, 2017, 07:49:57 pm »
So North Korean shenanigans, attempting to do something on healthcare, and preventing a shutdown even though the House and Senate are both controlled by your party isn't enough.  Let's piss off Canada too!
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Offline PatMan33

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Re: 2016 Election
« Reply #2845 on: April 25, 2017, 08:39:04 am »
It's like they want an uprising.

Offline Inkling

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Re: 2016 Election
« Reply #2846 on: April 25, 2017, 09:20:39 am »
I think that's more what you want.  Unless you mean the Trump administration wants a Canadian uprising, in which case... maybe?

Hey Gauph, how good are you at pitchfork waving?
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Offline PatMan33

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Re: 2016 Election
« Reply #2847 on: April 25, 2017, 04:36:18 pm »
Unless you mean the Trump administration wants a Canadian uprising, in which case... maybe?

What else did you think I could have meant??  :o

Offline Inkling

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Re: 2016 Election
« Reply #2848 on: April 25, 2017, 04:49:51 pm »
Trying to cause an uprising in your own country would make less sense than in your stable allied neighbor.  But the latter still wouldn't make any damn sense.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/flynn-likely-broke-the-law-by-failing-to-disclose-foreign-payments-house-committee-says/2017/04/25/249fc22c-29cc-11e7-a616-d7c8a68c1a66_story.html?utm_term=.645999750093

So much for Flynn's immunity deal.
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Offline PatMan33

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Re: 2016 Election
« Reply #2849 on: April 25, 2017, 04:55:24 pm »
Probably why he asked for immunity.