Author Topic: Maxis at IGDA  (Read 4612 times)

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Offline Zamaza

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Maxis at IGDA
« on: August 16, 2008, 08:03:13 am »
I can't seem to find this posted already, but it is fairly new.
I found it at SpaceOddity's blog: http://spaceoddityblog.planets.gamespy.com/
Who found it at: http://forums.sporemania.com/news/san_francisco_igda_aout_2008-t6529.0.html


As a student going into game design I found these very interesting. It’s all mostly slides, so if you’re looking for new gameplay info you will most likely be bored. (The music thing is a bit dull because there's no shiny pictures, but there's pictures in the next two presentations. I found it all very entertaining.)

However, there is a wealth of behind the scene How’d they do that? Info in there that I soaked up like a sponge.

There's some stuff in there like fur and feathers as a skin, a lot of really neat stuff in the second one about animation. Stuff they didn't expect, how everything works behind the scenes. Also, the game has apparently changed some since the CC was released (they said part stats are somewhat different now, and the icons for some things are slightly different. The parts themselves are the same.)

Recommend watching them.

(please someone tell me how to put the videos in the message or do it in a reply XD)






Offline Ultramarine

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Re: Maxis at IGDA
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2008, 08:08:35 am »
Hmmm nice, and as for your vid question you'd have to rip it and upload to youtube.
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Offline Zamaza

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Re: Maxis at IGDA
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2008, 08:10:37 am »
Bah, I'm far to lazy and that feels like stealing XD

I'm sure someone else will...

Offline Null

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Re: Maxis at IGDA
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2008, 09:31:57 am »
Paraphrased:
Quote
" when you have user created content, 90% of what’s created is usually crap, but if you give them the right tools and all... with sporepedia, we have had great success in improving the quality… so that only 60% is crap…”
:P hehehe



Oh and also, that those and who took pains to maximize complexity are "screwed", direct quote, because CC values differ from the real game.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2008, 10:28:05 am by Fledgeling »

Offline Hydromancerx

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Re: Maxis at IGDA
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2008, 10:33:04 am »
I just finished watching ti all and thats exactly th kind of stuff i am interested in as a game designer/artist. Even the music part was fascinating to me. What they really have done is mind blowing. Also what they have done to make things easier for the player is amazing. The amount of effort a 3D artist has to do especially on texturing and animation is crazy yet they figured out great ways to almost "cheat".

However i do see a downside to closing the gap between amateur and professional artist, Spore editors and future programs which use ready made objects that predetermine things that an artist might do might actually cause people to loose artistic skills. Thats not to say loose creativity but loose the skills needed for art. For instance i use the calculator or spell checker as an example. Both are tools that allow for the user to become more accurate in their arithmetic or spelling however without the tool they may not be able perform these tasks.

I for one am slave to spell check and depend upon it all the time. I would hate for artists to become slave to these tools as an artistic crutch and become depend upon it to do their art. In short its a double edged sword where it allows those who before had no artistic talent to realize they can be creative and express their ideas through art. However it prevents them from self improving through the basics since they never have to learn them in the same way that someone never has to learn their times tables if they have a calculator.

Believe me i love Spore and the editors and what it allows me to do far beyond my skills however I don't want to loose skills or pick up bad habits by using a tool that will do the work for you.

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Re: Maxis at IGDA
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2008, 12:36:44 pm »
HOLY CRAP!

Chris Hecker downloaded my Office Chair creature!



Too bad he didn't show it.

Offline huggkruka

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Re: Maxis at IGDA
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2008, 01:02:55 pm »
That's a bit silly, reaching maximum complexity doesn't have to be intentional, it might just end up that way because that's the way our creature is supposed to look! Hmm, maybe well see those creatures in Space and Civ, I can't see how complexity could matter there.

Offline SporeForSure

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Re: Maxis at IGDA
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2008, 01:23:52 pm »
Cant understand why some people are going for maximum complexity.

When you play spore for the first time, do you REALLY want your foodsource to have 6 eyes and a  360' view, ears that can hear someone comming 4 miles away and body armor that makes the creature harder to kill - or runs away in mach 2?

I dont know about the rest of you, but i am making a few weak creatures that are EASY to kill. Sure, they will probably become extinct, but that is how it goes.
”It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring” (Dr. Carl Sagan)

Offline Pietoro

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Re: Maxis at IGDA
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2008, 01:32:37 pm »
If a creature goes extinct on one planet, will it eventually get reused by the seeder on another? I can't see having a library filled with extinct creature files that become useless.
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Offline Captain Indigo

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Re: Maxis at IGDA
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2008, 02:48:47 pm »
I just finished watching ti all and thats exactly th kind of stuff i am interested in as a game designer/artist. Even the music part was fascinating to me. What they really have done is mind blowing. Also what they have done to make things easier for the player is amazing. The amount of effort a 3D artist has to do especially on texturing and animation is crazy yet they figured out great ways to almost "cheat".

However i do see a downside to closing the gap between amateur and professional artist, Spore editors and future programs which use ready made objects that predetermine things that an artist might do might actually cause people to loose artistic skills. Thats not to say loose creativity but loose the skills needed for art. For instance i use the calculator or spell checker as an example. Both are tools that allow for the user to become more accurate in their arithmetic or spelling however without the tool they may not be able perform these tasks.

I for one am slave to spell check and depend upon it all the time. I would hate for artists to become slave to these tools as an artistic crutch and become depend upon it to do their art. In short its a double edged sword where it allows those who before had no artistic talent to realize they can be creative and express their ideas through art. However it prevents them from self improving through the basics since they never have to learn them in the same way that someone never has to learn their times tables if they have a calculator.

Believe me i love Spore and the editors and what it allows me to do far beyond my skills however I don't want to loose skills or pick up bad habits by using a tool that will do the work for you.

That's not really applicable here, as there's no way a professional animation studio would use Spore to make a movie with - it's just not nearly complex enough. I've some experience with 3D modelling, and while the CC is incredibly impressive at creating relatively complex things very easily, for a professional level it's hopelessly simplistic, and nothing can compete with the professional programs like Maya.

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Offline Pietoro

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Re: Maxis at IGDA
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2008, 02:59:56 pm »
Oh and also, that those and who took pains to maximize complexity are "screwed", direct quote, because CC values differ from the real game.

I understood him to say the stats on the limbs were changed, so people who made all lv5 stat creatures are probably not going to have all lv5 stat creatures when the game comes out.
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Offline Parkaboy

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Re: Maxis at IGDA
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2008, 03:21:08 pm »
If a creature goes extinct on one planet, will it eventually get reused by the seeder on another? I can't see having a library filled with extinct creature files that become useless.

My guess is that later your space faring civilization would have the means to clone extinct creatures.

Offline Doomsday

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Re: Maxis at IGDA
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2008, 04:10:50 pm »
Ocean Quigley is the new Will Wright.. he says more "Uhs" and "Ums" than I've heard Will do in ages. It's super interesting and informative though. *goes to watch part 2*
« Last Edit: August 16, 2008, 04:13:28 pm by OpDDay2001 »
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Offline CosmicD

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Re: Maxis at IGDA
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2008, 05:29:10 pm »
about artists loosing the art of art, well I think of spore more like the equivalent of when the "house wife" needs an oven to bake very creative stuff, that she doesn't need to know the technicalities of how the oven is built to be able to fix great variety of meals. Nor does the coffee drinker need to know how the cofee machine works really (ok the barista does.).

But a next step in this "assisting creativity" thing would be that there would be even more handles and morph channels and refinement tools on this, so average people can also be creative and less limited.

Doesn't an artist - if he could - want to speed up the process of creating "high end" stuff as well ?

As an average person with too many dreams, I sometimes find these game level editors like ut or quake awful. The only thing I can manage is doomEd and then it stops. Why do you first need to go trough all these technical abstraction layers of defining dimension this side, the other side,  then fiddle wit meshes and almost handpick how your shiny wall is going to look, why doesn't the pc intelligently figure that one out ?

I'd make levels in hl2 when a level editor would offer me the ease of use of the spore editors. You draw a 3d room, you can morph it , then, when you have a fully lighted room, then you can customize by morphing with all kinds of "brushes" that can gnaw or extrude the room, selection tools that allow you to individually texturize parts of that troom etc. hallways that can autosnap to rooms with doorways premade but customizable... Ease of use isn't really the same as simplistic and limited to me (or at least it shouldn't be).

I think there's a whole world of possibility out there to make level editors drag and drop, squeeze and extrude, and still you can define where bloom lights have to fall if you want to create an eerie moonlit night time room etc.. without needing to know all these technicalities and go trough all these hoops to bring that to life.

Ofcourse as said in the videos, if you want to make tools like this, the director no longer directs the game but the team. . And it seems to be alot of work but as computers are getting faster, it can be done for pro's as well (without really compromizing on creativity but maximizing on usability) There's this part where they say they could incorporate lots of new stuff into the paint script when computers get faster, make the creatures even more realistic looking.

Another stupid example: If I make music: I'm not thinking about how the laser is gonna read the cd when somebody listens to it, and it still doesn't compromize my music making skills, because the tools are intuitive.

ironicly if they had a tool like they use in spore and replace that dreaded logical editor that's in cubase: it would be alot more intuitive :P

Offline DaMuncha

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Re: Maxis at IGDA
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2008, 08:56:41 pm »
I've made an office chair too. You stole my idea! :D

"um, ummm, uhhhh"

"um, and um, uhhh"

"imbed the um and create the uhh to um the uhh"

FINISH HIM!

"and umm uhh um um ahh hum UM hum um uhh um uhh um um um um um um uhhhhhhhhh......... UM!"

SUPREME VICTORY!