Author Topic: I want to play the original Spore.  (Read 78595 times)

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Offline Tr0n

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Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« Reply #90 on: June 27, 2008, 05:33:13 am »
Unfortunately for all of us, we were sold too hard on a piece of software that was akin to an FMV than gameplay.  WW had hand-crafted all of this demo to get a point across.  Unfortunately, his point was the technology behind pollinated content and procedural generation.  His platform for pushing this point was a bit too convincing, though.  The only apology he owes us is that he did too good a job making the demo and calling it "Spore" before it even had the green light for production.

The fluid animation and things happening perfectly were scripted to happen to show us how a game like this MIGHT happen.  Anyone who has prototyped software knows that you develop things like concept drawings/doctored screenshots to either show off the idea of the completed software either to generate excitement, show your philosophy, or to sell your product to a publisher.  That's the way the world works and that's what Will did. 

To that extent, we are lucky we're even seeing Spore in any capacity (much less with the core paradigm still intact).  A game like that is rooted in the indy and demo scene and the last commercial game demosceners successfully sold was Zone 66.  Indy games are rising in popularity but are rarely sold outside of digital form.  Point is, a game like Spore is a gamble and it still is.  If you ever want to see a game that worked just like the doctored demo in 2005, buy Spore and show that you support this form of development!  If you don't, then you let the world of one-off crappy FPSes and rehashes of movies for a quick buck win.

Bottom line, you saw a tech demo in 2005, a pipe dream.  The interactive FMV you saw was a concept, not a product.  Spore will be a product and you may not like it.  It's like seeing the fastest roller coaster in the world on TV and then going to Six Flags and riding a normal one... it'll still be fun.  You'll have a blast, but you'll still think about what it would be like to be on the other one.
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Offline Prathik

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Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« Reply #91 on: June 27, 2008, 05:38:30 am »
You want an APOLOGY?

Jeeez. I'm sorry, but.. Jeeeez. 

Offline plastik

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Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« Reply #92 on: June 27, 2008, 05:44:31 am »
It was just a tech demo. Go back and look at the original demonstrations on the PS3 when it was announced. People were stunned by the detailed, crisp, smooth graphics, but it was all for show. A year later, real game footage was shown, and it appeared that the PS3 wasn't going to be twice as good as what the 360 could produce, it was merely as good as its industry rival. But do you know what? That didn't make it bad, and it hasn't stopped people buying it. Spore in 2005 was a tech demo, and such a vast game was always going to change dramatically. The point is, tech demos are never the final product, and they never have been. Even playable demos state in a disclaimer that they do not represent the quality of the final game.

Offline Petike

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Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« Reply #93 on: June 27, 2008, 05:56:36 am »
There ARE different walking animations in the finished CC.
Try different feet types, or placing the legs elsewhere.


BTW I think you are VERY unfair, for calling it "pathetic", "poor imitation", or even "worse"(than the other version with no textures, 10-15 body parts, and no other testing than walking).

The whole world liked this final version, the Internet is full of positive reviews, even non-fans decide to buy the full CC. This level of procedural animating is still ground-breaking, and innovative. It is very unreasonable to hate it just because theoretically it could have even better animations.
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Offline Feigro

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Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« Reply #94 on: June 27, 2008, 06:08:21 am »
The aimed for Jupiter and landed on Mars. Either way they ended up where no one else has been before, and have a damn good game on their hands, in my opinion.

Here's something that most of the people who whine about certain things in spore should think about - Ever think Maxis is dissapointed with a few things too?

I doubt the animators are cackling with glee that you can't recreate dilema.
I doubt the artists and textureers are keen on the fact they couldn't pull the spectrum of "Pixar to Giger" off in it's entirety (though this seems pretty giger to me, plus we've yet to see the breadth of buildings, vehicles, and planets).
I doubt they were jumping in hysterics at the decision to cut the water stage.

« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 06:12:48 am by Feigro »
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Offline Veraal

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Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« Reply #95 on: June 27, 2008, 06:21:17 am »
i feel the same way Mat.

i am raging too, i feel like will is going to pull a moleynux.

Offline liveoctopus

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Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« Reply #96 on: June 27, 2008, 06:25:50 am »
A few people have made a similar point here but it deserves to be clarified and reiterated, because this "I want the 2005 Spore" meme is popping up everywhere, and it's frankly dumb. There was no 2005 Spore. We saw: 1) an early alpha creature editor that allowed you to mold a body and attach some parts, but didn't yet do anything else. 2) A few 3d environments running on a modified Sims 2 engine. 3) A handful of creatures that were almost certainly created solely for the purposes of the demo, using an actual 3d modeling program, and NOT any form of creature creator, since the one they had at the time was not in a finished state at all.

The Spore we have today is what we have from Maxis starting at ground zero and adding in features as they had time. That's it. Some things have been removed from the original design concept, or modified, but there was no 2005 Spore from which they mercilessly chopped any completed features, like so many people here seem to imagine. What we saw in 2005 was the game developer equivalent of concept art. There was no real game there.

We should be amazed that the Spore we're getting in a couple months bears as much resemblance as it does to the 2005 concept. As far as I can tell (and of course we won't know for certain until release), Wright seems poised to deliver on the greater part of his promises, and with a game like Spore, that's incredible.

Offline Lippy

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Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« Reply #97 on: June 27, 2008, 06:43:59 am »
I think the whole "The 2005 version was better!" craze is going to be this month's SecuROM craze.  This thread should be merged with the "I want to play the original version" thread.  Too much is getting repeated between the two.

Offline DarkDragon

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Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« Reply #98 on: June 27, 2008, 07:02:42 am »
EA Happened.

Now really, all you're seeing in the Creature Creator is nothing compared to the whole game, health and speed don't even affect the creatures in the editor.
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Offline Feigro

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Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« Reply #99 on: June 27, 2008, 08:10:10 am »
You know. There's a video right here that deals explicitly with the art direction issue;

One(around 8:00) and Two

You may choose to believe EA stomped it's foot and said "make it cute." if you want. But that's not a marketing Q/A. So it's not like they're there to cough up an answer to something with their evil EA overlords watching them behind tinted glass.

It was a design decision based off of the information presented in those videos. A Design decision EA likely had nothing to do with.


As to the other stuff the OP mentioned in the thread that got merged with this one. Yes, I'm sure EA said, "Don't make the animations as fluid as the tech demo, we wouldn't want that". As far as sticking to a schedule, EA or not, the game needs to be released or else Maxis continues to lose money. Wright has mentioned many times while discussing the design process that it's not about getting all of the awesome ideas into a game. It's about selecting what good 10% of the ideas you have that you're actually going to focus on so you can fit them in.

Elsewise the game would probably never get finished.
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Offline DarkDragon

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Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« Reply #100 on: June 27, 2008, 08:20:24 am »
What are you on about? I like the cartoonish style  ;)

Yes, I'm sure EA said, "Don't make the animations as fluid as the tech demo, we wouldn't want that".

You know, since a picture is worth a 1000 words:



This was the first picture that I found but I'm sure you're aware of the infinite+1 expansion packs for The Sims and The Sims 2, you can't deny that EA is money-hungry because they are a company and all companies want profit and EAs way of getting profit is by releasing half-unfinished games that they can keep adding stuff to and add crappy security systems making people pay 20x more for 1 game than they would for any other company :)
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Offline The Time Traveller

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Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« Reply #101 on: June 27, 2008, 09:19:49 am »
The aimed for Jupiter and landed on Mars. Either way they ended up where no one else has been before, and have a damn good game on their hands, in my opinion.

Here's something that most of the people who whine about certain things in spore should think about - Ever think Maxis is dissapointed with a few things too?

I doubt the animators are cackling with glee that you can't recreate dilema.
I doubt the artists and textureers are keen on the fact they couldn't pull the spectrum of "Pixar to Giger" off in it's entirety (though this seems pretty giger to me, plus we've yet to see the breadth of buildings, vehicles, and planets).
I doubt they were jumping in hysterics at the decision to cut the water stage.


Woah.  That's beyond geiger.  That's... what's the guy who made Cthullu?
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Offline Doomsday

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Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« Reply #102 on: June 27, 2008, 09:28:30 am »
Woah.  That's beyond geiger.  That's... what's the guy who made Cthullu?

I don't know what the hell you mean, but the author you're thinking of is H.P. Lovecraft.
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Offline Feigro

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Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« Reply #103 on: June 27, 2008, 09:32:35 am »
All of those are primarily content expansions that add on additional stuff that the Sims could easily exist without. The Sims was designed to be expandable. It didn't matter if if the game started with 8 jobs or if it started with 20. The Maxis team would still be able to add more. This continues through out the rest of the game. It doesn't matter if you had a selection of 10 bathtubs or 15, Maxis could always add 5 more.

Things like Hot Date and Holiday are pretty full expansions packs that took their own amount of design time (as did the other ones, but I view some of the expacs as simply adding "more stuff" like furniture and jobs). What you fail to realize is that the development time would've expanded had these features been in the initial game. The Sims was not "half unfinished". It is a fine stand alone product to the effect of which I personally never purchased an Expansion for myself and was still fully capable of enjoying it for the money I spent. Which is all that matters in a product.

The animations and inner-workings of the game were fine that did not require additional expansions to flesh them out (though patches, sure). Which is what I was discussing in relation to the post I was referring to. His gripe was that "hey... these animations look better than the ones we have now! stupid!!!" so your honest theory is that EA told them to dumb down the animations and the basic (mechanic) fabrics of the game, So they can release an expansion later that touts "Now with less choppy animations! and better pathfinding too!". That, I find ridiculous.

Something like the underwater stage is subject to the "save it for an expansion" mentality though. But consider this - All of the expansion packs for the sims had their own amount of development times. Without being able to account for pauses in the development cycles, You're argument of "EA should release the finished game to us" translates into the Sims being released in 2003 instead of 2000. Additionally, it'd likely be marked at a higher price.

Finally, EA are evil overlords. Sure, there you go. But they also employ the people that are making spore. Which is a game I want that is made by people I respect. Considering they like their jobs, and 30 dollars is pretty trivial to me in the grand scheme of things, I'm perfectly fine with shelling out for a few feature-packed expansions every year or so as I expect the game of Spore to entertain me for quite some time.

To Illustrate an example, I have a game I purchased in 1996 for 30 dollars that I still play today. That's 30 dollars that has bought me over 10 years of entertainment (obviously compressed into actual game time) The folks who made that game only got 30 bucks, where in my opinion, they technically deserve more. So If a company has found a formula to provide further service to their customers who remain playing their product for several years, while simultaneously continue to reap their deserved profit from it, then go nuts. So long as the initial product remains a quality product, then what's the blody problem?

The Sims vanilla (sans expansions) remained a quality product. Spore also appears to be a quality product.

(tangent) Civilization 4 vanilla is a quality product. Yet it's two expansions provide an insane amount of content that in some aspects completely flesh out the game entirely and brings it to whole new levels. Does that mean Firaxis and 2k are evil and are robbing you? No. It means they shipped you a good product that you purchased, then used that product as a platform to offer you additional products which you may or may not choose to buy.

Don't want to feed the evil overlords? Don't buy expansions. There is nothing about Spore to suggest it isn't going to be a complete A+ quality product. If it isn't, then you don't need to worry about expansions. If it is, then you got what you paid for and can choose to further your purchases or not.

But to suggest that the Sims was an incomplete game is rediculous. They could always expand it and they could've continued to do so if they wanted to. The content you can find in the online community is a testament to that fact in itself.

And DD I know you're spore fan anyway, so In the end I guess this post isn't really directed at you so much as "everybody else". You just provided the catalyst for the response.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 09:46:16 am by Feigro »
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Offline Cyrus

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Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« Reply #104 on: June 27, 2008, 09:54:05 am »
Well it seems like enough people here get it that the 2005 demo was just a proof of concept.  Yeah, maybe they could have been a little more forward back at GDC/E3 2005 and said "this isn't the real game, we're just starting actual production on it," but I honesty don't think that would have stopped some people from complaining that the final product doesn't match the demo 100%.

People also seem to ignore there are plenty of features that have been added to the game since the initial demo as well.  Back when they were demoing it, player content distribution was going to be this mysterious transparent process that you had no say in, but now we have the Sporepedia and community that goes with it, Sporecasts, etc.  As for gameplay elements, we didn't know about epic creatures back at GDC 2005, or being able to edit music for your city's national anthem, etc.  And I'm sure there's more we still have yet to discover in the months to come.

It's silly to obsess over one or two negatives when the positives far outweigh it.
Looks like even I was being optimistic with a March 07 release date...