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Messages - Feigro

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16
Spore: General / Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« on: June 27, 2008, 05:03:11 am »
Here's the explanation;

That demo was specifically designed for... that demo. They didn't just open up a creature editor and create random creatures and ship them off for the demo. Like you could do today. An example of this is that the Willosaur that Will makes in the editor isn't even the same one he loads into the game next. It's an illusion.

There was no game then. It was a tech demo to show the idea of Spore. It wasn't a trailer. It wasn't a marketing device. Spore was going to be announced at e3 and Will wanted to do it at GDC so he incorporated it into his talk.

Also, you don't deserve an apology. Things change in development. What do you want them to say?

"oh, sorry we let you see the game so early in development."

Because that's all they did. They didn't say, "We're going to sell you cake!!" and then hand you pie.


17
Spore: General / Re: Definitive limit of Creatures per Planet?
« on: June 26, 2008, 05:10:01 am »
What's the source for this?

In this video (@10:08) Will points to the interface below and refers to it as the planet's ecosytem. There's not much left for the imagination.



9 plants, 6 herbivores, 3 carnivores. 3 tiers of habitability. 3 plants provide for 2 herbivores that provide for 1 carnivore at each tier. The circle on the left is indicative of the planet's climate.

The above interface is seen at various stages of habitation in multiple different screenshots.

18
Spore: General / Re: Definitive limit of Creatures per Planet?
« on: June 26, 2008, 01:31:17 am »
Omnivores take up two slots, one in both herb and carn. That's the most likely explanation. The omni mouth doesn't have its own symbols, it simply combines both the herb and carni symbol, which seems to me that it does take up two slots.

I highly doubt a single creature would take up two creature slots. The ecosystem is already limited as it stands. They likely are able to fill either side of the ecosystem as I mentioned above. In either case, neither of us know the definitive answer on Omnivores. Though since the computer will be in control of these animals, I wouldn't be surprised if Maxis went about programming two "roles" (in herb and carn) and then just decided to have the omnivores fill whichever roles aren't filled at the time. To me, this makes vastly more sense than having a single creature be worth twice as much for no real reason at all. This would result in full life-sustaining planets having ecosystems of 3 creatures, as opposed to 9.

I'm not opposed to hearing a decent argument on it though. But the symbols comment can apply to my theory on it as well, simply due to interpretations. In your opinion, Omnivores having the mixed icon must take up both slots in the ecosystem. In my opinion, Omnivores having the mixed icon means they could be placed in either slot in the ecosystem.

Another possibility is that for NPCs, Omnivores are automatically classified into one of the two categories depending on it's stats/capabilities. For example, an Omnivore with little to no offensive capability probably would not act as a dominant predator in the environment. When looking at this chart, and then different stages of the chart. It would seem that's exactly the role the carnivores fill. Since you need Herbivores on the planet before you can add in the carnivores. Then on the otherhand, an Omnivore with higher attack values (and who knows, perhaps overall attack score determines the aggressiveness of creatures) could likely fill the role of a predator.

This goes back the something I mentioned in the first paragraph - in this manner, Maxis would only really need to program two roles in the ecosystem as far as behavior of the creatures go; The Herbivore and the Carnivore. In this case, Omnivores would be placed in either role not by some kind of "necessity", but based on their own abilities. The computer would simply have to analyze if it's capable (or more likely, if attack value determines aggressiveness) of being a carnivore. Or if it's capable/more likely to be an herbivore.

Perhaps it's a combo of paragraph 1 and 3.

Also note that the T3 is locked.

Any idea when and how to unlocks them?

It has to do with the atmosphere of the planet. This planet is only able to sustain two tiers of life. A fully habitable planet can sustain three. There are corresponding circles to the left. There are 3 (well, 4) levels of circles regardless of the stage in terraforming. So if you were to bring that yellow dot into the center circle, that would unlock tier 3.

For example, here is a barren, lifeless planetm you can see the 3 circles in the center shaded in. After some terroforming, the dot enters the first circle, and the first tier is unlocked as seen here. Then you unlock herbivores by placing plants, you unlock carnivores by placing herbivores.

19
Spore: General / Re: Definitive limit of Creatures per Planet?
« on: June 25, 2008, 10:25:05 am »
I was just curious if anyone has the definitive limit of creatures per planet? When I look at the chart I see 9 herbivores, 6 Omnivores, 3 predators. Some see 3, 3 and 3. I cant since there multiple left to right columns. At the smallest Id see, 3,2 and 1. Id really appreciate this information so I can design my ecology in balance. ;D

The column to the left is plants. So 9 plants total, the one in the middle are herbivores, 6 total, the last column is carnivores, so 3 total. All in all, 9 creatures total.

The 3/3/3 idea I imagine comes from the fact that Omnivores aren't specified on the chart. So people assume that half of the herbivore slot is intended for omnivores. Others think that an Omnivore could take up a slot in both Carnivore or Herbivore categories.

The thread in the S:SE section subscribes to the 3/3/3 policy. Personally, I think Omnivores are a wild card. Meaning you could have 6 herbivores, 2 carnivores and an Omnivore, or perhaps 2 Herbs, 4 omnis, and 3 carnivores... Or to the greatest extent, 9 Omnivores. This is to say I believe that Omnivores can fill either roll in the ecosystem. Most likely defaulting to the roll of Herbivore. Then, should you add an Omnivore to a planet that already had 6 Herbivores, it'd act as a carnivore, as if by "necessity". That makes the most sense to me.

Though when thinking about designing my own worlds, I still subscribe to the 3/3/3 idea as well. I also debate a 4/2/3 system -with 4 herbivores, 2 omnivores, and 3 carnivores. Only on the basis that I like the idea of herbivores being the most common, and Omnivores (hybrids) being the least common. 3/3/3 gives an equal share to the three types. 4/2/3 seems more natural to me, personally.

In any event, the definitive number based off evidence from videos and screenshots, is 9 creatures, not including the sapient species.


20
But they took out the tribal building editor and the flora editor which I'd gladly have over some of that stuff.
No, these weren't in, or even planned at the original presentation.

He took a hut from the menu, like the fireplace or the drums, and the plants were just there.


I'd disagree.

Editors displayed in order; Creature, Building, Vehicle, UFO, Flora, Hut, Terrain

So thoses editors were at the very least planned. Then again, you're citing the 05 presentation specifically, so technically you could be right. But I'd say you wouldn't have the knowledge anyway unless you work for Maxis. Were those editors a part of the "original spore" (according to the topic...)? That's debatable. Were they planned for Spore and then removed/postponed? Yes.


21
Spore: General / Re: Observations before a Million :)
« on: June 24, 2008, 12:49:11 pm »
Nice calculations feigro but they are crap.

First of you dont get galaxy populated...but only the near ones every one is seeing.

Furtermore maybe a big number only plays with the cd content, another big part only plays with selected animals.

Then at the end we have a rather small group that has their game getting populated by Millions and millions of cretures...I can say that the % of your creature in any game is going to be small.

No "crap". I'm well aware that a planet doesn't need creatures until a player is actually confronting the planet within their game. Thus in that respect my numbers aren't crap. They're exactly accurate. If there are 2 million planets, then someone would need about 10 million creatures to populate all of them if they accessed them all.

I never said anyone would actually do it.

To the above two posters, yes - there can be multiple versions of your same creature from different points in evolution. As to it "not being ideal" - well, there are thousands of creature in the Sporepedia right now that are attempts to make the same. There are X amount of pikachus, X amount of Xenomorphs, and X amount of humanoidal Bird-men. All of which look similiar, some of which look damn near identical.

So... that's going to occur naturally anyway with millions upon millions of creatures being created. Eventually, you'll have a few hundred Raptors that look pretty much exactly alike.


22
Spore: General / Re: Observations before a Million :)
« on: June 24, 2008, 11:27:36 am »
For those interested; Here's a screenshot.

By that, It would seem that Godhand's Toadenator is the millionth creature.

Anyway...

23
Spore: General / Re: Observations before a Million :)
« on: June 24, 2008, 10:05:39 am »
To get a bit of perspective;

Using liberal estimates and averages; 500,000 stars (lowest number cited), 4 planets a star (average of 2-6), 5 creatures per planet (average of 0-9)

= 10,000,00 creatures needed.

For the maximums in each area ;

4 billion planets (highest number mentioned), 9 creatures on all planets would mean a requirement of 36 billion creatures.

So, 1 million is a good start.  :D

24
Spore: General / Re: Does size not matter?
« on: June 24, 2008, 07:29:57 am »
How do we even know the final stat limit will be the 5 thats in place for the editor, for all we know that may just be a limit for the editor.

Technically, we don't (actually, technically we do, it's just subject to changing before the official release). But there's no reason for the stat limit to not be the exact same, as far as base creature creation (I'm leaving room for it to be augmented by non-editor stuff), in the full game of Spore. Especially in the paid version of the editor.

I believe they didnt add alot to the editor

I believe if they sold us the full version of the creature creator, exactly like they've advertised.

and from the FAQ;
Quote
Q: What can I do with the Creature Creator?

A: It works exactly like the Creature Creator in Spore.

Thus the only evidence anyone would have to assume the creature creator does not in fact function exactly the same in Spore would be the "Ea is evil! blah blah blah" excuse which I don't consider sufficient evidence. Are there things that could exist within the game that further augment stats beyond what we see? Absolutely. But at the moment, based off of current info, there's no reason to assume that the paid full version of the creature creator is limited or in any way not a full representation of the system that exists in the full game.

So for the time being, editor-based stats are capped at 5.


25
Spore: General / Re: I want to play the original Spore.
« on: June 24, 2008, 06:15:14 am »
I think Petike's post sums it up really. If anything, they didn't change the style so much as reduce it's scope, or perhaps more accurately, simply didn't achieve the goal of their scope. Will Wright in the 05 presentation layed out the scope then as "Pixar to Giger", noting even then that he didn't feel they'd get there. Considering some of the more realistic things I've seen made so far, and how I feel the buildings and Vehicles editor will offer the best arrangement of realistic capabilties. They got as far as, "Pixar to relatively real looking" which is still a pretty good chunk of the spectrum.

Basically, I'd say they made the effort to nail the Pixar part (which they did) and then likely tried to bring the bar as far to the other end of the spectrum as they could manage, due to either capabilties of the system and/or development time (likely both). In any case, I think citing the 05 tech demo as having realistic art direction would be a mistake.

26
Spore: General / Re: Does size not matter?
« on: June 24, 2008, 06:02:33 am »
Yes, but this is the same as the poison/venom issue.  You're talking about creatures that are unequal for other reasons.  What I (and the OP I think) are talking about is when you have two creatures that are exactly the same, only one is bigger. 

Make a tiny dragon, and make a huge dragon.  Give them exactly the same body parts, scaled appropriately for their size.  It irks me that they have the same stats. 

Well, I think the OP's concern was more general in the sense that you'll find a bunny that's more powerful than a dragon. My reply to that was it merely depends on the level of their abilities.

Though I think your comment is even featured in stat-based games too. Especially MMOs. There are plenty of cases where models are recycled and rescaled and made either stronger or weaker depending on the scenario. There are plenty of cases where the smaller models end up being stronger than the bigger models.

I.e. a 20 meter dragon that is identical in look to a 40 meter dragon yet ends up being stronger than it. I agree that the whole idea isn't really ideal. I just don't really factor it in as an issue because I'm used to these kind of "oddities" in stat-based games. They're so commonplace that the issue is rather minuscule, in my opinion.

I wish the size of the parts/torso had an effect of the voice of the creature.

The size of the mouth effects the sound. Though I don't think the way they went about it really pulls it off. Simply because if I have a huge creature, that doesn't necessarily mean I want it to have gigantic mouth. But in any event, size still has an effect on sound.


27
Spore: General / Re: Does size not matter?
« on: June 23, 2008, 10:15:45 pm »
Yes but the trouble with that is that the model the stats are attached to, is little more than something to gawk and and click on to attack. In Spore, the design is supposed to play a real role in things, so I'm sure they have worked out some form of mechanic to go with it. As mentioned, larger creatures may apparently hunt in lesser numbers, but if mistaken, perhaps stronger creatures, regardless of size, hunt solo, or in smaller parties. Its not just a simple "Hey look I'm interacting with the game" thing, but a game balance thing too. It would suck if the species the game seeded as the common prey creatures on your planet, just happened to travel in scavenging groups of twenty, and all have maxed attack stats, whilst looking totally harmless. Well, that actually might be strangely interesting, but it would suck if it was the norm. A certain degree of visual cues would be nice, like upon seeing a huge, spikey, muscular creature, you could assume it was stronger than the tiny thing hiding in the bushes with no visible nastybits.

Unless its 'just a bunny'.
Oh great, now I want to encounter tiny bunnies that totally decimate anything that forces it to fight. Stop making me think about change my mind!

The trouble is always with the model the stats are attached to. As I mentioned previously, in most stat-based games, the model is essentially irrelevant. Hence level 40 deer are stronger than level 18 assassins. When in actuality, I'm sure most people would look at an assassin and assume it's a deadlier opponenet than your average deer. Spore also gives a lot much more control over design effecting gamplay than most other games. So even without Size having a gameplay element, I'd say they've hit their mark.

I'd also assume that if the game is stat-based in any manner, then the selection is stat based too. Meaning that bunnies that are in fact ravenous killing machines wouldn't be selected as prey in the first place, as they have +5 whatever, and therefore are obviously too strong to fill out the "weak stuff the player can hunt" niche within the Eco system.

But you're right in that we don't know how things will work. Especially in your herding example. Personally, I think that specific mechanic is determined by the social stat in some manner, not size. Highly social creatures (overall) will herd, non social creatures won't. To me that makes the most sense.


28
Spore: General / Re: Does size not matter?
« on: June 23, 2008, 09:11:46 pm »
You're forgetting that we havent seen the completed game.

I think the real forgetting is the fact that it's a game. A game with, by my assessment, very loose RPG mechanics when it comes to the creature stage. Now I'm not pulling the "It's a game card" just to be annoying. I'm doing it for example, which is pretty much this; Any game with a calculable number of stats that detirming the outcome events or the strength of certain things will always have "WTF?" moments either sporadically or sewn into their very design as to make them common.

I can think of plenty of examples where creatures that are small are just as powerful, if not moreso, than creatures 5x it's size. This is even better displayed in level based games. Where you can have a mouse, and just because it's "level 40", it is insanely more powerful than a world-consuming demi-god that weighs in a level 20.

Thus, Mouse > Demi-god.

Make sense? Nope. But, it's just how the game works. Translation to Spore - Mouse with level 4 bite > Demi-god with level 2 bite.

29
Be sure you've satisfied the rest of the Mac requirements;

Quote
Spore requires at least the following:
* Mac OS X 10.5.3 Leopard or higher
* Intel Core Duo Processor
* 1024 MB RAM
* ATI X1600 or NVidia 7300 GT with 128 MB of Video RAM, or Intel Integrated GMA X3100
* At least 4.7GB of hard drive space for installation, plus additional space for creations.
*This game will not run on PowerPC (G3/G4/G5) based Mac systems (PowerMac).
For computers using built-in graphics chipsets, the game requires at least:
* Intel Integrated Chipset GMA X3100
* Dual 2.0GHz CPUs, or 1.7GHz Core 2 Duo, or equivalent
Supported Video Cards
ATI Radeon(TM) series
X1600, X1900, HD 2400, HD 2600
NVIDIA GeForce series
7300, 7600, 8600, 8800
Intel(R) Extreme Graphics
GMA X3100
This game will not run on the GMA 950 class of integrated video cards.
*Install space subject to change.

30
In Tribe you get the "clothes" editor. A selection of additional parts you can add onto your creature to decorate him.  Parts here have their own morphologies as well.

You don't really design the clothes, so much as further design the look of your creature by deciding what their tribal selves look like.

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