Author Topic: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down  (Read 30925 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline darkwanderer

  • Astrosmasher!
  • ****
  • Posts: 625
  • Step into the dark
    • View Profile
Re: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2008, 01:10:13 pm »
Most people only play with the editors now. they better fix things in the expansions, or the last few years of waiting are just a waste. Maxis have been stupid here. Yes maxis, not EA.



Offline jarnomiedema

  • Wizard of Wor
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
    • View Profile
Re: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down
« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2008, 01:16:01 pm »
While I don't think it's fair to just blame Chris Hecker for Spore's flaws and failures, I do think the people behind the game made a colossal mistake in choosing the path they chose..

Spore certainly would've been a lot more interesting if creatures like the ones we've seen in the 2005 demo could actually be made in-game. But, since that's not an option, I guess we'll have to work with what we've got, no matter how much we dislike it..

At the moment, I find myself playing around with the editor and downloading good content more than playing the actual game. I'll keep doing that until the game is either made better through expansion packs or through extensive modding efforts..

Offline Arachoid

  • Tempest Top Dog
  • ****
  • Posts: 883
  • A new musical revelation...
    • View Profile
Re: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down
« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2008, 02:03:30 pm »
*reads link in OP*
*emotionless face turns red, then reverts back to normal without moving*
*person behind notices nose bleed before spontaneously combustion*

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. Is the post is to be believed, they coulda done it but didn't do it for sales of a game about evolution. In a world where the majority of the population is devout, try again.
I say NO! to all limits.
Unfortunately, I don't think we're far enough into the Civ stage to have deveoped into the 'Infinite-ghz processing' research tree yet...

Offline Blulightning

  • Bezerk Brawler
  • ****
  • Posts: 575
  • Radioactive Kitty!!!
    • View Profile
Re: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down
« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2008, 10:17:50 pm »
Blah blah blah about Chris Hecker.

LBP will grow. Spore will die away. I honestly can't imagine any expansion pack that would get me to play it again - it needs a complete overhaul to be worth my time and money. The only reason I'm still interested is because I know someone is going to take the idea of Spore and do it RIGHT -- someone is listening to us, figuring out how they can make a Spore clone, and what features will give them an edge. And if Maxis won't listen to us, maybe this other party will.

I'm not going to respond to anything about Hecker, it's really not worth the conversation.
He really isn't worth talking about.
But I'll simply say... it wasn't just him. And yeah, he is a complete idiot.

But I want to respond to the rest of your post.

Honestly, I have the opposite opinion.
I'm not sure how it's doing atm, but LBP will eventually fade away. Spore will live on.

Spore is like The Sims. It WILL have many expansions, many Stuff Packs, many additions... and it will continue to be a very very popular game.

That is what EA does. They are good at that. They create a game, market it, sell it.
They created Spore to be what it is now to be another 'The Sims.'

Spore will be alive for years and years to come. Until they make Spore 2. This is what EA wanted, this is what they created, this is what the general mass of "pseudo-casual gamers" wants.

   I tend to teach people how I play Spore and why I enjoy it. I belong to a sort of Spore Fanatics club out here in Oregon. About 50 of us all together. Each of us have logged at least 600 hours each. Thats a lot of hours. I guess for whatever reason Spore just does appeal to me. I've currently written almost a entire short story about one of my races. This seems to be common to the people who like the game.

  In the end what Im saying is Spore is a good game. Its a fun game. It will probably expand and make plenty of money. Maybe even a couple hundred million dollars. It will grow a fanbase and it will thrive over time in little fanclubs like mine. It wont be The Sims or even Simcity. Its a good game though :)

This is why Spore will live on.
PEOPLE DO LIKE SPORE.
Spore is a good-to-decent kind of game.

It IS like 'The Sims' just like EA wanted it to be.

I mean, the Spore they made isn't a BAD game. Neither was The Sims.
It is simply a game that casual gamers don't have enough time for, hardcore gamers find redundant and get tired of,
and it forms it's own crowd of "pseudo-casual gamers" (My own phrase, btw) who can't stop playing it.

Eventually, most of the people here will get tired of it, and move on to either another game, or to one of Spore's many upcoming fansites.

Spore isn't what we wanted it to be. But it is still a decent game.
I like it. I can't see myself playing it a year from now.... but I still like it. It's alright.
It was worth $50. But I personally don't think it's worth the $$$ that the expansions will cost. But that's just me.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 10:19:30 pm by Blulightning »

Offline Pietoro

  • Rigel Rescuer
  • ***
  • Posts: 418
    • View Profile
    • My Sporepedia
Re: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down
« Reply #49 on: October 29, 2008, 10:54:54 pm »
I want more content in the phases. Creature and Space. More things to do. Stuff packs don't interest me as much as content packs. Right now the game sorely lacks in any content. Some more Sim-like things in all the phases would help a lot.

But yeah, I haven't picked it up in a while. And with WoW's expansion only two weeks away, I'll be tied up with that for the next six months or so instead of paying attention to Spore.

And that kind of makes me sad.
"Ooh rabba la dee teeb, ooh babba labba squeeb!"

Offline Protoavis

  • Sea Battler
  • ***
  • Posts: 394
    • View Profile
Re: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2008, 12:00:27 am »

Do you really want to play a game where you have no control over your creature evolution, or where the speed of light is really respected?


It'd be far more interesting, space would seem much much larger, emphasizing the powers of ten.

Quality =  Popularity

White potentially true, it isn't true in the reverse. Popularity =\= Quality

Sales = Quality

Ermm generally it means a really huge advertising push. I mean look at MP3 players, iPods rule yet they aren't nearly the best quality MP3 players out there, they just have the most advertising and a brand name behind them.
"Oh mummy, the bad man said bad things, please mummy...mummy" said the 20+ yr old man.

Offline Psychic_Dude

  • Lunar Lander Leader
  • *
  • Posts: 99
    • View Profile
Re: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2008, 02:59:44 am »
Unfortunately Spore has become another Black and White 2 if not something worse.

I don't blame Chris Hecker but rather the entire development team and most of all EA, the cancerous, all consuming corporate gaming giant.

Independent gaming companies once produced quality and original products, the days of such are dieing.

It all started with Maxis being consumed in a hostile takeover. Since then, I've watched the amazing original titles once produced by maxis, slowly be twisted, beaten and reshaped into money makers for EA.

Maxis is dead.
 
We're not going to see anything like a proper SimCity 5 or anything else resembling Sim Earth or Sim Life.

I buy very few video games, I do however download many pirated games each month, for me few are worth purchasing anymore, but Spore I was going to buy.

Spore had so much potential, Spore was supposed to be revolutionary, Spore was supposed to be SimEverything, Spore should have defined the next generation of gaming, moving away from the standard formula of developers laboring away in studios creating content. Players would become the content creators. This is what Spore was supposed to be, this was Will Wright's dream and masterpiece.

The Spore we received is an unspeakable insult to Will Wright's original idea. I truly feel sorry WW, forced to watch his dream morph into a nightmare, his masterpiece of originality sculpted into a common piece of trash for maximum profitability. I realise nothing is perfect and I don't damand that but what EA has done here and to many other titles and will continue to do, is unforgivable.

I will never support EA by purchasing their games and until they release quality, original products I will continue to boycott them and any other corporation releasing the same trash year after year. I'm certainly not satisfied with what Spore is now and voting with our money is the only language corporations like EA understand.

Offline DaMuncha

  • Lode Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2248
  • GREAT SCOTTS!
    • View Profile
Re: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2008, 03:45:56 am »
I dont think theres anything wrong with Black and White 2, I liked that game, its just a bit too short.

And about Spore, Spore... is just a bit too short, I can deifinitely tell this is not what Will had imagined. Will Wright was making his dream game, Will Wright should have made every decision in the games developement if he wanted it to remain the game he envisioned. I'm not sure why this was (My connection is slow and I cant be bothered waiting for it to load that page), but I can tell you, that once he gave up control of his dream game, he gave up his dream. I could see from what he was saying earlier on that the 05 Spore was the game he wanted. And the Spore we have today is definately not that game.

I dont doubt for a second that the 05 Spore would have sold just as many copies if not more, and been a much more enjoyable game. Personaly I'm getting realy sick of the childish cartoony look to it and its made too simple, as if it was marketed for 5 yo girls. I've palyed it for a many hours now but it holds nothing left, I'm getting realy sick of the repeditiveness of the boring missions, Im getting sick of having to fly away from what I'm doing to go rescue some alied planet by zapping only 5 creatures. Its just too easy and boring.

Spore was fun for a while, now its just tedius and repedative. Though I wotn abandon it just yet, I'm still having a little fun creating things but thats getting a bit repedative too.

Offline Hydromancerx

  • Master of Orion
  • *****
  • Posts: 12394
  • Klaatu Barada Nikto!
    • View Profile
    • Sagan 4
Re: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2008, 03:53:02 am »
I think Maxis is stuck in a "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" situation. On the one hand if Spore was everything we wanted it to be we would not have not the game until many years later and frankly I think they worked long enough on the game and needed a rest. They did many many MANY things other games have not come close to doing. HOWEVER i agree that focusing on "causal gamers" was not the best result when it comes to pleasing hardcore gamers like us. It wish that Spore was more geared twords the hardcore gamers. This of course would mean less money for them but would stay true to the vision of Spore we all imagined before it came out.

This is not to say they cannot redeem themselves through expansions. Casual gamers don't always buy the expansions but typically the hardcore gamers do. So I could see Spore getting a lot more depth and gearing to the hardcore gamers when it comes to this. At least i hope they do. One nice thing about Maxis is they do listen and read what the fans say and I bet they know that the hardcore fans are not as happy as we thought we would be.

But i still have faith that the expansions at least will bring some awesomeness Spore had in development that they just did not have time to make.

Offline DaMuncha

  • Lode Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2248
  • GREAT SCOTTS!
    • View Profile
Re: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2008, 04:02:49 am »
And about Spore, Spore... is just a bit too short, I can deifinitely tell this is not what Will had imagined. Will Wright was making his dream game, Will Wright should have made every decision in the games developement if he wanted it to remain the game he envisioned. I'm not sure why this was (My connection is slow and I cant be bothered waiting for it to load that page), but I can tell you, that once he gave up control of his dream game, he gave up his dream. I could see from what he was saying earlier on that the 05 Spore was the game he wanted. And the Spore we have today is definately not that game.

I dont doubt for a second that the 05 Spore would have sold just as many copies if not more, and been a much more enjoyable game. Personaly I'm getting realy sick of the childish cartoony look to it and its made too simple, as if it was marketed for 5 yo girls. I've palyed it for a many hours now but it holds nothing left, I'm getting realy sick of the repeditiveness of the boring missions, Im getting sick of having to fly away from what I'm doing to go rescue some alied planet by zapping only 5 creatures. Its just too easy and boring.

Spore was fun for a while, now its just tedius and repedative. Though I wotn abandon it just yet, I'm still having a little fun creating things but thats getting a bit repedative too.

And I dont think any expansions will be anything more than Stuff packs, even if they add in a little new game play element it wont make the game much better, its just plain boring and way too fast.

Offline Lippy

  • Galaga General
  • ****
  • Posts: 982
  • Deal with it.
    • View Profile
Re: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2008, 09:38:28 am »
Most the major issues people such as DaMuncha have expressed with Spore would still be there even if it was less cute and more scientific. 

It would still have been released by EA.  It would still have SecuROM.  It would still have been gutted to make the release date.  It would still have all the initial bugs.  And it would still have very very simple gameplay.  The gameplay might be different, but it would still be shallow, very simple, and repetitive.  The cuteness is really just the cover.  If it was less cute, it would still have all the underlying problems with tediousness and repetitiveness that DaMuncha is finding frustrating with the game. 

Chris Hecker is the scape goat for the people who believe they've been shafted by the game.  The internet tough guy reactions wishing harm on him are just the stupid blind hatred of the dumb masses.   The dumb masses probably hold more blame.  They're the ones in the focus groups.  They're the ones who tested the game and liked the big cartoon eyes, and were confused by the physics based creature creation.  Chris Hecker even said a physics based creature creation game might be pretty fun, but it's not that they didn't want to make it just because they wanted to dumb it down and make it cute.  They just couldn't make a system that worked reliably with almost every configuration, be generated fast, and look good. 

Offline Telluric

  • Phoenix Fighter
  • **
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile
Re: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2008, 10:15:36 am »
It is interesting how this breaks down along the lines of "cute" and "science".

I think the "science" people aren't so much interested in real science, but interested in complexity.  Spore is generally lacking in complexity.  It seems obvious that complexity was removed to make the game play more fun and the game itself more accessible to more people.  A real simulation would add additional complexity, but past examples have proved that you can provide a simple control system to go with that complexity to guide it.  SimEarth was perhaps the best example of this - a highly complex simulation engine driven by a few sliders and tools.

The problem with comparing this to "cute" is that cute doesn't imply any level of complexity, but instead an artistic style.  We could have had accessible, charming creatures built on a complex engine.  But, it appears, the developers had a hard time coming to grips with that engine.  So, the artistic style remains intact, but the meat of the matter (embodied perhaps in things like procedural programming) didn't receive enough attention.

Could there have been a meatier underside to Spore made apparent through the cute interface?  Sure.  And that's the essential failure of the game for me.  The game is too superficial - I don't care what it looks like.
"If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little." - George Carlin

Offline Techleo

  • Defender Devotee
  • ***
  • Posts: 447
    • View Profile
Re: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2008, 10:36:04 am »
 ;D Best post ever Telluric! I couldn't have said it better!

Offline amigang

  • Galaxian Guru
  • *
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
    • Vincent Perkins
Re: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2008, 11:58:42 am »
The look of the game is not too bad, I would of liked to have looked a little bit more real than cartooney but its not that bad.

I agree with most comments here, the game needs more substances, I dont understand if they had the heavy science all coded and working why not included them and give users the options to turn them on and off, a bit like a F1 game works, most people can not drive a F1 car for love nor money so the game includes options like driving assistance, automatic gears, break assistances etc. Spore could of feature similar things that you could turn on and off, realistic creatures on/off, etc.

So the question is why whereat these included, and my guess is they will be in expansion packs, expansion packs, and expansion packs.

Offline Jaleho

  • Stargate Superstar
  • ****
  • Posts: 668
  • The Infamous El Guapo
    • View Profile
    • Inflatable Studios
Re: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down
« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2008, 12:13:09 pm »
See, I don't really care about the look - I purposely made a race of cartoon weasels and (failed) to make a planet filled only with birds to harass and steal eggs. If I could play a Spore that felt like looney tunes or fraggles or smurfs, that wouldn't bug me. It's the fact that I can't *DO* anything in the game. A whole planet of complexity, and your choices come down to moving, attacking, befriending or eating. That's it. I don't care if the game is "cute" I want it to be FUN, and it can't even do THAT right.

Let me make my pink flowery creature. That's fine. But then let me dig burrows, climb trees, collect sticks and use them as weapons, plan strategic hunting moves, staying downwind, compete for multiple specialized food sources, track prey, step on smaller creatures, swim without being eaten by a sea monster, eat grass, gallop, bounce, bound, slither, sidewind, blend in with camoflague where paint matters, have giant herds/packs, live as a rogue without a nest (and search for a mate), males and females, pregnancy, marsupials, thirst, water vs air breathing, symbiosis, parasites...

instead, Yahtzee had it right: braid their hair or kill them. That's the only choice you make in the entire stage that matters. As much as Will tries to claim otherwise, there is NOT emergent gameplay in Spore -- there's barely PROGRAMMED gameplay.