Topic: One of the reasons why Spore is "cute" and dumbed down

[Plank of Wood]

DAMN YOU HECKER! GIVE ME BACK MY GAME!

[DarkDragon]

DAMN YOU HECKER! GIVE ME BACK MY GAME!

Hecker sapping my Spore?

[Andrew Ryan]

DAMN YOU HECKER! GIVE ME BACK MY GAME!

Hecker sapping my Spore?

SPIES SAPPING MA FAVORITE GAME!!!

[Techleo]

  In the end I think most of us are a vocal minority. Most of the people who made up the gamers who bought this game, I believe the 13-17 year crowd according to a poll, enjoyed the game. That means the people who wanted the SCI-FI reality game are merely ... fluff.
That sorta depresses me, although I suppose it doesn't affect EA. IF the game sells to the target market what do we really matter?
I do think with enough expansions the game will end up with a good long term following. At least I still enjoy the game!

  To end it on a positive note I passed 600 hour mark! YAYYYY!! I haven't been uploading my creations much but I am well past 2000 now. I Love Spore

[gec05]

I don't think they could change the game visually to the way it was before. They start with the cute look, they have to stick with it or the game will be lost to the entire audience.

The only thing they can do now to make up for it is putting back that complexity and depth in the gameplay.

[Jaleho]

We should burn him in effigy at the next GDC -- only the effigy will have big googly eyes, flowers in his hair, neon pink clothing...

Actually, we'll just give him the effigy and some matches in a box and let him burn it himself, because we gamers are obviously too stupid to figure out how to light a fire without burning ourselves...

[Techleo]

  Haha, you have my sides hurting so bad is not funny! Seriously great comment Jaleho!
 We will see how it goes.. I actually wish I had the ability to close a thread. I mean eventually we get to this point of consensus and then someone comes in blurting insanity and starts the whole mess over again. There just isn't enough finality in forums for me sometimes.

[gec05]

I'll be watching.

Also, don't forget you can report posts.

[Tr0n]

While not the smartest decision to appease fans, admittedly we are not in the 1980s or early 1990s age of gaming.  Back then, everything was new.  Shareware developers listened.  Heck, we didn't even know what could be done.  Crazy ideas were funded because production values (and expectations) were low.  Simcity in 1989 was far more impactful than Spore today.  

Why am I spouting all of this off?  It's because if Maxis had released science-Spore, it would have been a commercial failure... guaranteed.  It would have been pirated into obscurity and would have only sold enough to maybe recoup some of the cost of technology production.  It's a classic example of money > all.  But here's the crazy part.  We're all ready to hang Chris Hecker up by his toenails and beat him like a pinata until he poops out little SPORE figurines, but by directing the game to where it is now, he may have saved the franchise.  Now, with the constant influx of money, EA can green light expansions, keep the Sporepedia servers running, and allow greater freedom for the Maxis team.

Will they do that?  Who knows?  Given a space expansion is in the works, it seems as if they're using Spore as the platform that the suits wanted it to be.  One may not like the gameplay now because it's cutesy and a 3 year old could dominate the galaxy.  I'm one of these people.  But to that extent, my Spore GE box is sitting on my desk looking pretty until they release an expansion I find approachable.  It's in EA's best interest to spearhead development of a "science-Spore" because in their eyes, they're getting two times the money out of one game.  The base game had to be bought.  We were disappointed... but now they get to tailor it to our needs based on the money coming in from those (probably a wider audience) who are perfectly happy with the game.  

I'm not saying that this was the plan all along or that the cutesy-ness was done with us in mind.  But I am saying that because of its mass appeal, the side effect is that WW and crew may have the time and funds to make a science project of a game.

I'll be waiting for the Space expansion eagerly, but I'm not going to follow it like a cultist anymore.  I don't want expectations, I want results.  I won't hype myself up again and I will take anything new at face value.  I ruined my own Spore experience by expecting way too much, knowing it was impossible for Maxis/EA to deliver and be profitable.

[Snork]

Bravo Tr0n! I agree with you 100%
An you know, you might be right, Maybe Chris did do something good.

[gec05]

Now if Maxis could do a favor and give back what the hardcore audience wanted.

I doubt the casual market invests in expansion packs.

[Blulightning]

Blah blah blah...

Why am I spouting all of this off?  It's because if Maxis had released science-Spore, it would have been a commercial failure... guaranteed.  It would have been pirated into obscurity and would have only sold enough to maybe recoup some of the cost of technology production.  It's a classic example of money > all.  But here's the crazy part.  We're all ready to hang Chris Hecker up by his toenails and beat him like a pinata until he poops out little SPORE figurines, but by directing the game to where it is now, he may have saved the franchise.

Blah blah blah...

I was going to post something, about both the commercial value of the Spore we have today, and the 'GDC 2005 Spore' but then I saw you posted this.

Not only do I disagree with you. But you're just plain wrong.

The misconception here with you, Chris Hecker, and any of the other people who might've thought 'turning this game around' was a better idea, is that there really are a lot (A LOT) of people who really do enjoy science.

Not only was the GDC 2005 demo what set off the Spore that everyone is still demanding today, but it is caused a massive convulse of the gaming population. People wanted Spore. People would have died to have Spore then.

There's two ways that the game, back then, could have went.
1. It's sales only succeeded in bringing the cost of development slightly above red.
OR what I think would have happened:
2. We would have seen a TRUE new generation of video games. A cultivation of science and fiction, culminating in the massive explosion of cult-like fans, only having been reached by the likes of Star Wars and Star Trek.

The problem is, video game publishers know absolutely nothing about video games, nor the people who buy them.
They, instead, are convulsively obsessed by statistical numbers. Representations of what has already been done.
They want the security. They don't want the art, the fans, or the video games. They want the cold, hard cash.
They want their stock numbers to rise steadily. Because Steady numbers mean security. Security means they keep their plush mansions and their other kushy assets that they 'couldn't live without.'

It was obvious that Spore wasn't going to stay like the demos.
Electronic Arts doesn't make art like that.

I told you, they are some of the biggest number crunchers in the 'entertainment business.'

Electronic Arts doesn't make ART, they make cash!

They know that cute sells, the numbers tell them so. They also have complete control over Maxis and everything Maxis makes.

What they don't know is if science fiction sells. Because those numbers aren't in their books.
No, science has never been done.
Video gamers don't want science, why else would it not be in their books!?

Think about it.
Gamers were dying for a chance to play with some metaphorical amoeba.
Spore, with one simple demo, and a lot of dreams and inspirations, became such a popular title that it became known world-wide in a single day. Already building hundreds, if not thousands of fans that same day.

Dreams are great things. And when people can see those dreams in reach, they starve for those dreams.
That is what makes a fan.

Yep, that's right. You sold your dreams to EA, in exchange for a shell of what your dreams once were.

Everything's alright, though. It'll be alright.............. just tell yourself that, as you rock yourself to sleep.

P.S. Sorry to crush you guys' dreams, myself. But EA has already done that, I'm just sweeping up the mess.
You will NEVER see the game that Spore was meant to be. NEVER.
Don't even wish or hope for it, because you WILL be let down.

Like I said... just sweeping. Don't kill the messenger.



Edit: BTW, Will Wright tried to fight this social mind-set of a cliche, and ... well... we got Spore.
The Spore with big flashy eyes, flowery little charms, and they even wiggle their cute little butts.

Yeah... and that is the video game industry for you.

[Jaleho]

And you know what drives me insane trying to understand? Chris Hecker is one of the driving people in the world of INDIE Gaming... the very people focused on new, untested, potentially unsuccessful ideas. A major figure in the world of "who cares if it makes a lot of money -- we need fresh ideas that aren't Halo and Madden."

But then I remember Hecker never shipped a game before Spore, that he said he had to give up indie games to "sell out" and make an income, and it all makes sense...

He believed in Indie Gaming, then Indie Gaming let him down, and he gave in to the almighty dollar and the game industry. Because HE couldn't succeed in indie games, he decided "if you can't beat them, join them" and gave in to the "pander to the dumbed-down masses" mentality.

I think he steered Spore away from its "extreme" heading, because he felt (from his own experiences) that Spore would be doomed to failure if it continued down that path.

And in the end, no matter how many people are upset with what Spore became, it sold plenty of copies. But it would have sold that many even if it were an empty box -- people wanted it.

I think it would have sold MORE if first adopters weren't telling those who hadn't played it yet "just get the creature creator -- there's no real gameplay in the full Spore". Instead of first adopters of Little Big Planet telling others "Dude, you HAVE to get this game -- I can't stop playing!"

LBP will grow. Spore will die away. I honestly can't imagine any expansion pack that would get me to play it again - it needs a complete overhaul to be worth my time and money. The only reason I'm still interested is because I know someone is going to take the idea of Spore and do it RIGHT -- someone is listening to us, figuring out how they can make a Spore clone, and what features will give them an edge. And if Maxis won't listen to us, maybe this other party will.

[Techleo]

   I tend to teach people how I play Spore and why I enjoy it. I belong to a sort of Spore Fanatics club out here in Oregon. About 50 of us all together. Each of us have logged at least 600 hours each. Thats a lot of hours. I guess for whatever reason Spore just does appeal to me. I've currently written almost a entire short story about one of my races. This seems to be common to the people who like the game.

  In the end what Im saying is Spore is a good game. Its a fun game. It will probably expand and make plenty of money. Maybe even a couple hundred million dollars. It will grow a fanbase and it will thrive over time in little fanclubs like mine. It wont be The Sims or even Simcity. Its a good game though

[Enoch]

Why am I spouting all of this off?  It's because if Maxis had released science-Spore, it would have been a commercial failure... guaranteed.  It would have been pirated into obscurity and would have only sold enough to maybe recoup some of the cost of technology production.  It's a classic example of money > all.  But here's the crazy part.  We're all ready to hang Chris Hecker up by his toenails and beat him like a pinata until he poops out little SPORE figurines, but by directing the game to where it is now, he may have saved the franchise.  Now, with the constant influx of money, EA can green light expansions, keep the Sporepedia servers running, and allow greater freedom for the Maxis team.

What the hell is wrong with you? The ONLY reason Spore EVER achieved any kind of fame/notoriety aside from being "Will Wright's next game" was because WE, meaning people who would enjoy a realistic, simulation-style cell-to-space god game, saw the 2005 demo and thought that's what it was. Had cute pink cells with eyes appeared in that initial demo, this kind of waiting-for-Spore cult wouldn't have ever come into existence, Spore wouldn't have been the most anticipated game of the decade, and it wouldn't have been able to turn a profit in the face of being the most pirated game in history.

So HOW can you possibly say that there's no market for the game that that the fans want?