Author Topic: Philosophy Thread  (Read 40437 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline munchkin5

  • Punch-Out Champ
  • *****
  • Posts: 3130
  • Gentlemen.
    • View Profile
Re: Philosophy Thread
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2009, 11:52:53 am »
Go suck some eggs.

I never asked you to consider me as absolute authority. Think whatever you want.

Just because you think you're right, doesn't mean you can berate me.


EDIT: That goes for everyone.

But you clearly just made up everything you said.

On a side note; my opinion on the subject matter would be that one conscious would die, another would be created but the second conscience would continue thinking it was the first conscious. This change would be completely invisible to any outside observers, either that or it would be like trying to synthetically recreate food, it would essentially be the same thing, but wouldn't taste right, i.e not behave the same.

« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 11:59:08 am by munchkin5 »

Offline Detoxicated

  • Pack M.U.L.E.
  • *****
  • Posts: 2296
  • Spirit of Monkey
    • View Profile
Re: Philosophy Thread
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2009, 12:17:38 pm »
No offense Yuu, but your post wouldn't sound out of place in an episode of Star Trek: Voyager.
Given you're not working at the bleeding edge of made up theoretical physics, and have never actually given any indication you have any background in physics at all you'll forgive us for being a bit reactionary.  ;)
yea like the rest of you have that degree of knowledge on anything discussed in this topic

i was wondering, do you believe that there can be a true AI? and if so how did it come to be? is it beneficial or malevolent?

I, for my part, believe that AI could actually exist in a future. Its creation wouldn't be at man's hand, it would create itself spontaneously out of programs and viruses coming together. It would neither be beneficial nor malevolent, as its just an intelligence of no alignment. I mean you cant classify humans into evil or good either
OK, both of you die and let us know what happens.

Offline Didero

  • Turkey Shoot Terminator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3186
    • View Profile
Re: Philosophy Thread
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2009, 12:35:41 pm »
i was wondering, do you believe that there can be a true AI? and if so how did it come to be? is it beneficial or malevolent?

I, for my part, believe that AI could actually exist in a future. Its creation wouldn't be at man's hand, it would create itself spontaneously out of programs and viruses coming together. It would neither be beneficial nor malevolent, as its just an intelligence of no alignment. I mean you cant classify humans into evil or good either
I take it you're not a programmer? ;)
Programs can't just "come together". Software only does what it's programmed to do, and it does that, and only that, very literally.

Offline madis

  • Rigel Rescuer
  • ***
  • Posts: 409
  • The cousin of Tiberium.
    • View Profile
Re: Philosophy Thread
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2009, 12:39:40 pm »


i was wondering, do you believe that there can be a true AI? and if so how did it come to be? is it beneficial or malevolent?

I, for my part, believe that AI could actually exist in a future. Its creation wouldn't be at man's hand, it would create itself spontaneously out of programs and viruses coming together. It would neither be beneficial nor malevolent, as its just an intelligence of no alignment. I mean you cant classify humans into evil or good either

You have been watching too many movies...
And what do you mean by true AI?

Click on the picture.
Tick, tick, tick the time goes by,
tick, tick, tick the clock blows up.

Offline MetallicDragon

  • Apprentice Enchanter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2505
    • View Profile
Re: Philosophy Thread
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2009, 12:51:41 pm »
AI that can be considered truly intelligent is what I'm guessing what is meant by that.


Anyway, consider this situation: someone's brain shuts down completely. For a moment, they are nothing but a mass of molecules, physically identical to the person they just were but the brain is completely and utterly turned off. Then, their brain is turned back on. Are they the same person? Why? Because it is the same set molecules that the old person was? This would imply that there is something more to us than just our physical being, if you say that this person is still the same person, and yet an exact physical copy of their brain and everything, perhaps through some sort of teleportation device, is not the same person.

Offline madis

  • Rigel Rescuer
  • ***
  • Posts: 409
  • The cousin of Tiberium.
    • View Profile
Re: Philosophy Thread
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2009, 12:53:41 pm »
It would not be the same person. The original person has died, but a new identical entity has been created.

Click on the picture.
Tick, tick, tick the time goes by,
tick, tick, tick the clock blows up.

Offline Uroboros

  • Duck Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 3060
  • Am I awake?
    • View Profile
Re: Philosophy Thread
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2009, 01:24:37 pm »
Don't we all agree that there will be no hivemind created? Except for Aw, nobody even mentioned hivemind.
Except for the fact that people are assuming if you make a copy of the contents of your brain, your consciousness is transferred with it, and you are living within that copy at the same time. That is pretty much 'hiveminding', and the opening example just states that your original brain is wiped out in the process so it isn't an -actual- hivemind. The premise remains the same, that you are essentially copying your awareness along with the contents of your brain... expanding your 'self' beyond your singular body/mind. This is the main thing i've objected to in this farsical discussion, that even if you copied your very awareness and mind, you yourself would have no access to it, because it would be another being, seperate to you, much like how a parent cannot experience life through the mind of their children. Though once again, i'm bringing too much reality into a discussion where it really has no place. :P

I just guessed because it got its own thread, that it was actually being asked with a little more seriousness than : "If a lollypop had a tongue, would it lick itself?" stonerish questions. Otherwise it should probably have gone in that "Most Important Questions" thread. I guess that makes me a killjoy kind of a square.

Its like when my friends in school used to say things like : "It would be awesome if I had a cybernetic arm that was really strong and stuff", and i'd point out how badly it would suck because of things like being heavy and making you off-balance, or even if the arm is strong, it would tear itself off your body if you tried to do any physical feat too extreme, and so forth. Yeah, i'm just no fun...
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 01:37:29 pm by Uroboros »

Offline MetallicDragon

  • Apprentice Enchanter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2505
    • View Profile
Re: Philosophy Thread
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2009, 01:53:07 pm »
But what exactly is conciousness? What is awareness? Is there something more than the synapses in our brain that we don't understand that comprises our 'self'? If so, then transferring your memories, personality etc would not make the copy of your brain you, unless you could also copy this conciousness, awareness, 'self' thing as well. This is what this topic is really about: do we have a separate higher awareness separate from our purely physical brain that we don't know about, whether spiritually or through some function of physics we don't understand?

Offline Null

  • Tempest Top Dog
  • ****
  • Posts: 897
  • ...
    • View Profile
Re: Philosophy Thread
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2009, 02:42:15 pm »
As of this moment I am a self-proffessed expert on theoretical computational work, and I declare that everyone here is wrong and that no-one is right.

Offline Dwight

  • Star Castle Cadet
  • ****
  • Posts: 544
  • Eisenhower.
    • View Profile
    • www.addictinggames.com
Re: Philosophy Thread
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2009, 03:30:55 pm »
This may turn into an argument about whether or not a person's "consciousness" or "Soul" could be transferred if there is hardware to put it into, and if the "soul" exists at all.
"An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows."-Dwight D. Eisenhower.
Dwight is the model employee, and makes Eisenhower proud.

Offline MetallicDragon

  • Apprentice Enchanter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2505
    • View Profile
Re: Philosophy Thread
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2009, 03:56:09 pm »
This may turn into an argument about whether or not a person's "consciousness" or "Soul" could be transferred if there is hardware to put it into, and if the "soul" exists at all.


I thought that's exactly what this was about...?

Offline /lurk

  • Dragon Warrior Slime
  • *****
  • Posts: 5202
    • View Profile
Re: Philosophy Thread
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2009, 04:04:56 pm »
But what exactly is conciousness? What is awareness? Is there something more than the synapses in our brain that we don't understand that comprises our 'self'? If so, then transferring your memories, personality etc would not make the copy of your brain you, unless you could also copy this conciousness, awareness, 'self' thing as well. This is what this topic is really about: do we have a separate higher awareness separate from our purely physical brain that we don't know about, whether spiritually or through some function of physics we don't understand?

No, we don't.

Wasn't that easy?


Anyway, the thread seems to have arrived at the right answer to the teleporter conundrum: making a copy of something (even an uncertainty principle defying 'exact' copy) and then destroying the original doesn't make the new one 'original,' since that isn't a physical property that you can copy. Not to mention that the two are discontinuous for less metaphysical reasons that have already been discussed.

So if you want to live forever you'll have to cyborganise yourself gradually.
Not a winner anymore.

Offline Krakow Sam

  • Moderator
  • Dungeon Sieger
  • *****
  • Posts: 24440
  • Stern dissaproval
    • View Profile
Re: Philosophy Thread
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2009, 05:34:37 pm »
Or physically remove your brain and put it in a new meatbody.
Sam is basically right, he's just cranky.

Offline MetallicDragon

  • Apprentice Enchanter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2505
    • View Profile
Re: Philosophy Thread
« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2009, 05:40:21 pm »
But what exactly is conciousness? What is awareness? Is there something more than the synapses in our brain that we don't understand that comprises our 'self'? If so, then transferring your memories, personality etc would not make the copy of your brain you, unless you could also copy this conciousness, awareness, 'self' thing as well. This is what this topic is really about: do we have a separate higher awareness separate from our purely physical brain that we don't know about, whether spiritually or through some function of physics we don't understand?

No, we don't.

Wasn't that easy?


Anyway, the thread seems to have arrived at the right answer to the teleporter conundrum: making a copy of something (even an uncertainty principle defying 'exact' copy) and then destroying the original doesn't make the new one 'original,' since that isn't a physical property that you can copy. Not to mention that the two are discontinuous for less metaphysical reasons that have already been discussed.

So if you want to live forever you'll have to cyborganise yourself gradually.

But why does being the "original" matter? Simply because it's using the same protons and electrons?

Offline Uroboros

  • Duck Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 3060
  • Am I awake?
    • View Profile
Re: Philosophy Thread
« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2009, 05:58:20 pm »
But why does being the "original" matter? Simply because it's using the same protons and electrons?
Because then its not your consciousness/awareness, and you're dead, with a clone in your place, who is in fact 'someone else' but using your physical blueprints.