Oh we could set up our game like that.
Maybe we spend a phase building an established word. And then we spend a phase colonizing the new world. It would allow us to have some anchor points for our lore and movements, but also a whole new land to expand upon within a basic structure.
Eras
The game would be divided into different eras and each era would be divided into ages (probably three). Some possible eras follow (Nothing is final, as of yet). This game could potentially go on for a very long time.
Prehistoric Era
In this era, we get to know the planet and lay the foundations for all future eras.
Age of Terraforming
During this age, players will primarily be placing terrain features and biomes.
Stone Age
During this age, players will be placing cultures and some terraforming.
Neolithic Age
During this age, player will primarily be placing cultures, subcultures and some cities.
...snip...
I'll take the small equatorial island between the two continents :D
Elevation will matter as much as anything else. The goal will be to keep things consistent, whatever we decide upon.
Oh and as for that cool island in-between the continents: I remember you said you wanted to make an isolated kind of civ. Would that be where you'd put it? Because that spot doesn't look like it'd be too isolated for long in the center of what would probably become a major world shipping lane.
I'm going to start working on the plates now. Keep in mind though, that unlike Sagan 4, this planet has an axial tilt identical to Earth.
I believed we envisioned this to be as realistic as possible, not fantastical. Introducing such fantasy elements is a slippery slope that I think we should steer clear of.
And here is what I came up with for plate tectonics:
(http://i.imgur.com/BQzAZAw.png)
And here is the first "official" project KMZ file: https://gofile.io/?c=oab8Jx (https://gofile.io/?c=oab8Jx) It includes the 800 pixel version of the map, the 10k pixel version of the map, and the tentative plate boundaries. (The 10k file takes a while to load so be patient).
Out of curiosity, since we're at the start of this, instead of trying to fit tectonics onto an existing Map 4, do we just want to start with a generated Pangaea, cut it in spots, and then extrapolate it out? Ovi was showing me a thread yesterday at the Cartographer's Guild that laid out a very similar process. It wouldn't take that much longer and now that we have a couple more experienced players in the game it could be pretty great.
https://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=2238
Thoughts? Remember there's no rush and there is plenty of time to discuss! :)
I'm joining the anti-goblin party as well. Sorry Hydro and Slinky. I have enough trouble wiith goblins in my day to day life, I don't want them in my games.
Haha I was kind of hoping for some fantasy too, but it isn't as big a deal to me.
We have time until we reach any stage where we'd need to consider magic, maybe we can come up with a compromise then? Maybe some kind of slow magical force that permeates? I dunno. Or nothing at all! Remember guys, we have time on our side! Just don't die and we should be fine. :P
Out of curiosity, since we're at the start of this, instead of trying to fit tectonics onto an existing Map 4, do we just want to start with a generated Pangaea, cut it in spots, and then extrapolate it out? Ovi was showing me a thread yesterday at the Cartographer's Guild that laid out a very similar process. It wouldn't take that much longer and now that we have a couple more experienced players in the game it could be pretty great.
https://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=2238
Thoughts? Remember there's no rush and there is plenty of time to discuss! :)
Well, for the pea brains in the group like myself, let's keep it pretty straightforward since we're already going into plate tectonics and that is a bit more deep than even I initially expected. :3
Plates move in one direction.
Technically plates move in arcs (which is why they seem to move in more than one direction). But yeah, for the simplicity of this game, we should use straight lines.
Goblins are literally my favorite fantasy creature :(
And as for fantasy, it would at least be cool to have animals that don't exist, even if they're not fairies and stuff, we could take a sci fi approach and just have weird animals
Nooooo we are not making Shadowrun world. D:
(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h202/Hydromancerx/seacurrents_zpsu8qznrhu.png)
...ALL THE TEXTS...
Words
I can create a geological profile for the planet if you guys like. I'll go though add all the elevation data on the 10k scale image. Also clean up the fault data and what not (probably make some minor changes, but should be mostly what Pat laid out). It might take me a few days, but it should be a nice presentable map when it's done.
Words
Thumbs up from me. If we wanted to get really fancy with it then I'd suggest the cycles of covergeance and diveregeance should be out of sync for different parts of the world. So on one continent there might be an ascendent empire while on another there's a breakdown of organised states.
As for biomes, I'd use this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vegetation.png) as a reference. But I wouldn't start adding them until i finish the geological profile map.
I think we should still pick the regions for fauna equivalency (similar to how we started to do in PCP3]we started to do in PCP3 (http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=18737.msg882087#msg882087)). Easier than just making up as we go along. This could probably wait until after the biomes are picked.
I think we should still pick the regions for fauna equivalency (similar to how we started to do in PCP3]we started to do in PCP3 (http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=18737.msg882087#msg882087)). Easier than just making up as we go along. This could probably wait until after the biomes are picked.
I really like this map that was posted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biome
It makes sense to me that we just use this map key. We can just use the eyedropper tool to get the color and bam, we're off and rolling. It is also a fairly comprehensive list but not needlessly complex.
I'm also on board with the ideas of divergence and convergence. Should that be a mechanic that we are bound to abide by? Or should we keep it as an informal policy that we try to uphold?
I think we can leave some room open for the creation of other species. It may not be as open-ended as something like Spore since we're heading towards a realism angle. But yeah, I think we can make both work. Clearly there is a desire on the part of some players to do this, so it should be incorporated.
Would it be reasonable to ask that whatever we make, we try to keep humanity as the primary race? Or should we make them earn it and have two competing intelligent races? Are we prepared to play that out to its conclusion? Could do the classic human/reptile split.
Wait you said you liked my system now you said you liked this system. Which do you like? The colors of this system with the biomes of my system?
I like both but I am also looking at it from the perspective of keeping things moving along. That map comes with a good list of biomes, a map key already made in simple colors we can eyedrop in most programs, and allows us to easily glance and get info. If real cartographers are using it there's no reason we should try to reinvent the wheel unnecessarily. So it's more than just the colors and the biome names. That wiki page offers up a complete product ready to ship, which is ultimately what we need here.
I'm open to a two species idea but I'd prefer something more caveman like. A different evolutionary branch diverging from our common ancestor with gorillas possibly.
Also, prevents things like kangaroos and rhinos from hanging out with grizzly bears.
Missed a fourth one, Hydro: the elusive Dropbear.
(http://i.imgur.com/3eCJ7zy.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
it said there wasn't enough memory to save the image... How does that even work?!
The map I am working on now is just the geological detail, so just elevations plates, and other geological stuff. I think Hydro volunteered to work on the biome map, but it's hard for anyone to work on until I finish my map. *Crack whip at self.*
EDIT: Also got my first chance to look at this map in Google Earth and it's intense. Very difficult to get my bearings down, although I'm sure biome colors will help with the cardinal directions. I'm very excited for this!
Should major changes to geography be brought up for a discussion?
Can I have an island full of Moas and other extinct animals?
I imagined it as the next PCP. So, "collaborating to write a history of an alternate earth" is what I envisioned.
I imagined it as the next PCP. So, "collaborating to write a history of an alternate earth" is what I envisioned.Can I have an island full of Moas and other extinct animals?
I would say, any organism that went extinct because of humans could exist at the start of the game. Who knows what could go extinct on our world?
However, we might need to have a more concrete system around conflicts between cultures/civilizations. That's an integral part of history and I think there are many examples were chance plays a large role in the outcome of a conflict. It would also be nice to have a more concrete system since I doubt everyone is going to be completely open to having their creation conquered by the neighboring people, especially if said people are prone to scorched earth policies. I don't necessarily have a good suggestion right now, but I'll try to think of something. Unless we want to approach it differently?
Moas are flightless though...
What about animals that humans lived along side but went exist during the last ice age? Such as the various Megafauna of the Americas and Australia.
There's some brainstorming going on on steam, and I like the idea of having some rules to force us to change things up from the world as it is. One idea is to not use common domesticated animals. Which might have been why I mentioned moas, anyway...
Edit: Also, still working on the map!
Really, though, as cool as some of these animals were, I'd rather this be more like a detailed history and less like Dinotopia.
I don't even know what moa is.
...made-up birds like moas can come a step later
I say we start here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatomically_modern_human), with a single origin point and have humans spread out into the world in much the same way the they did on Earth.
Do we know where we're starting humanity?
I agree with Pat so as to create the appearance of consensus so we can start playing already.
12 gajillion square kilogigameters
(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h202/Hydromancerx/regions_zpsnakfqaeb.png)
Red = North America
Orange = South America
Yellow = Africa
Green = Eurasia
Blue = Australia
Purple = Hawaii
(http://i.imgur.com/ft2ZgLH.png)
I did a very rough draft of how I expect the climate would be based on 1) large ocean to the east 2) equatorial location 3) westerly prevailing warm winds (see 1 and 2 (http://i.imgur.com/kahvEv0.jpg))
I used northern South America and Southeast Asia as my main points of comparison (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Vegetation.png).
(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h202/Hydromancerx/seacurrents_zpsu8qznrhu.png)
Blue = Cold Current
Pink = Warm Current
The only thing wrong with yours, Hydro, is the incorrect axial tilt.
Hydro, can you fix the axial tilt issue (I don't know what that is, I'm trusting Ovi here) because if so I don't see why we can't use your map. :D
Do you think you'd be able to add something like a "jet stream" as well? Maybe in a separate, somewhat see-through color?
Alright, here you go!
http://imgur.com/a/dCHAS (http://imgur.com/a/dCHAS)
This first map shows the plate boundaries and the fault types. Red = convergent, blue = transverse, green = divergent. The second map is just the raw elevation. On land, the contours are each 1,000m in elevation. The highest elevations on the map top 9,000m. This map also shows continental shelves and trenches. Since they aren't as important for the game, they are not as detailed. I didn't add any below sea level areas because that's partially affected by the biomes, though I do have a layer in the file to add them if needed.
https://gofile.io/?c=EvTOcS (https://gofile.io/?c=EvTOcS)
And that's the download for the GIMP file should you want to look at all the layers and what not.
We just follow the winds!
Mountains will force warm, moist ocean air to rise and therefore release its water. So unless there is also warm air coming from the sea on the other side, you can expect deserts. At least I think that is how it works basically.
I'm guessing it's because rivers branch out away from their mouths and converge downstream, while some of these rivers have one tributary with multiple estuaries.
(http://static.digg.com/images/c8512d4d97384cecba6dfe703f71067a_5ece2a5bb1a84fc1be76de893917ae21_1_post.jpeg)
Well, rocky terrain and jungles aren't mutually exclusive. But if you're thinking treeline, it's have to be much higher at the equator.
Just take a look at this chart for reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_line#Alpine_tree_lines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_line#Alpine_tree_lines)
So when do we get to the stuff with people?
Edit: Also! You guys should go over the map with a fine-tooth comb (not just me and Pat). The more eyes we have looking at the minute details the better chance we have of not having any mistakes! I had to fix several errors while making the rivers/watersheds.
Got a breakup going on
So if the map is about all laid out, we should probably start talking about the tribe/civilization stuff, right?
So how are we going to do this? I assume turns of some kind. Not sure about rules or if we want to points or some kind of chance factored in or something like Dawn of Worlds. Some of you actually paid attention to the rules of those games in the past and would have a better idea of what, if any parts of those would be good to carry over. I think we should at the very least have some consensus for the scope of a turn or round. It's going to be a problem if one person's idea of a turn is for their group to go from one village to two, and another person's idea is to go from stone tools to bronze age chariots or something. How quickly do we want this to advance?
We've talked about maybe not having sole ownership of a civ, so it's not your baby that you don't want anything bad to happen to. Maybe have one civ/tribe of a primary focus, and then seed others out? We've got a big map, we need to be fruitful and multiply. Even while our focus is on the starting island, maybe mention some group getting chased out and heading for sea, then later we find some developments already in progress when we expand our scope. I dunno, just spitballing here.
Yeah, otherwise all we're doing is wandering around and throwing rocks at animals.
I was blackmailed into it, really.
Right then, to elaborate on Sam's idea.
I'm thinking something along the lines of Europa Universalis in terms of how many territories there will be. We're talking upwards of 100 or more? Maybe 200 or more? Are you guys cool with that? Or do you want a smaller/larger scope?
By the way, should you guys decide on a version of mine, I can provide a more detailed map, showing localized ecozones, such as major river ecologies etc. Just let me know.
Flisch this looks great! You've done an impressive job, thank you so much for the time you spent. :)I just realized it sounds like I actually added a landmass. That's not what I meant. I just made an existing island into Christmas Island, because we need red crab migrations. :V
Also, totally cool with you adding an island. We'll uh... talk about that. :3
I need to know where these competitive masturbation contests are held in order to compete and win. Also for research.
I thought the plan was to not domesticate the same animals, to help make this a bit different from the actual world.This is why I added a couple of alternatives. Cormorant, capybara, ratites, even iguanas. Not to mention the three alternative carnivores skunk, polecat and mongoose.
Okay but I'm still gonna domesticate otters and turtles. And are we still doing near-prehistoric creatures? I want moas.I don't know how realistic you want to have this, but I tried to stick to animals that have a realistic chance of being domesticated.
By the way I still intend to sketch some rules for the cavedork phase but I'm gonna be super busy this weekend running a dance festival so it'll have to wait a bit.
I made some minor changes. Nothing big, but it satisfies my perfectionist itch.
(http://i.imgur.com/FwOjbsV.png)
Changelog:
- Added Seychelles (To the island that was formerly the Canaries)
- Subsequently moved the Canaries to an island on the atlantic coast of africa (which makes more sense anyway)
- Added "Various polynesian islands" to the australasian sea. I'm too lazy to label every one of those. You can figure it out. :P I mean, the fauna and flora should be fairly homogenic anyway.
- Added a little strip of Middle Europe to separate Iberia from Caucasus. This also means that Middle Europe now touches the mediterranean coast. Imagine those parts to equal Italy and Greece in terms of ecozone.
the fact that our lithosphere is so different makes that nigh impossible.
Still alive! Setting up a separate forum to help with organization: http://pcp4unme.freesmfhosting.com/index.php (http://pcp4unme.freesmfhosting.com/index.php)
It's actually the same forum from the last PCP, so if you were a member of that one, you don't even need to make a new account!
Neat, thanks Ovi. :D
Edit: Oh wait, Pat is still involved. I'm not going to spend time on a project that some douchebag is just going to delete at the drop of a hat. Sorry.