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Will Wright's Spore => Spore: General => Topic started by: aquaman on August 25, 2006, 10:03:11 am

Title: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: aquaman on August 25, 2006, 10:03:11 am
I had a look through the videos and have found these different stats for creature parts:

Mouths
Cost:
1st Column - 10
2nd Column - 20
3rd Column - 400
4th Column - 800

Ratings:
Basic Bite Damage (5/25/75/100)

Eyes
Cost:
1st Column - 10
2nd Column - 30
3rd Column - 60
4th Column - 100


Limbs
Cost:
Free


Feet
Cost:
1st Column - 10
2nd Column - ?
3rd Column - 160
4th Column - 640


Weapons
Costs:
1st Column - 5/10
2nd Column - 80
3rd Column - 160
4th Column - 320

Ratings:
Club Damage
Spit Damage
Spit Liquid Damage
Weak Slash Damage
Damage (on its own)


Decorations
Costs:
Top Five Rows - 30
Bottom Five Rows - Free (As far as I can tell)
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Sterics on August 25, 2006, 10:05:13 am
the question now is, how many DNA points we have?
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Holiace on August 25, 2006, 10:29:52 am
lol... I don't want to be limited when I've acheved galaxial domination! ^^
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Hydromancerx on August 25, 2006, 06:13:08 pm
Interesting...
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: DaMuncha on August 25, 2006, 07:15:49 pm
the question now is, how many DNA points we have?

well considering u get DNA points from eating, i dont think there is a set limit
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Spartan_King on August 26, 2006, 06:03:19 am
You also find DNA points on the ground. And I believe he ment how much do we start with when we hit the creature stage, etc.
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Chickenman297 on August 26, 2006, 06:10:00 am
Very cool  8) :)  Now do it for the other phases ;D
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: DaMuncha on August 26, 2006, 06:25:41 am
id imagine the DNA points you earn in the cell game would carry over to your creature
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Falconer on August 26, 2006, 12:57:31 pm
Wow, aquaman, you must have been staring at screens and videos for hours and hours. :)

Interesting info. Wonder if that will change or if these will be the rate the game will go live with. I also wonder how much you will need to eat to get the high level stuff.
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: aquaman on August 26, 2006, 12:59:20 pm
Wow, aquaman, you must have been staring at screens and videos for hours and hours. :)

Not quite that long but it did get slightly tedious.  The cursor kept moving over the parts so quickly that I had to pause exactly in the right place.  Thanks for your appreciation.  :D
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Millsy111 on August 26, 2006, 01:40:13 pm
Nice work Aqua  8) I got one problem with the DNA points though. I know that the more expensive a body part is, the more damage, speed etc it has. The problem is, with my creature, I want to be able to choose the parts which I think would best suit him, rather than the parts with the highest stats. I hope that other people will do the same as me, as I really don't want my species to be cannon-fodder for a DNA-Grinder  ;)
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: stuck on August 26, 2006, 01:44:37 pm
Well, think of it this way. You can always revert your super-high-upgrade parts back to what you wanted before you upgrade your brain. I think the only real use to stats is to make the game go faster.
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Bastardman on August 26, 2006, 02:33:00 pm
So the tier four mouths do 20 times as much damage as the basic ones?

I really, really don't like the way that sounds.
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Millsy111 on August 26, 2006, 02:38:35 pm
My creature is gonna suck if Tier 4 parts can do 20 times as much damage.  >:(
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: stuck on August 26, 2006, 02:39:52 pm
So the tier four mouths do 20 times as much damage as the basic ones?

I really, really don't like the way that sounds.

Well, since when did herbivores bite? ;) Just prey on weaker animals, or get a chainsaw appendage, and take it off before you advance to tribal. It really isn't that big of a deal.
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Bastardman on August 26, 2006, 02:47:41 pm
They're just upgrades of the other mouths, though, aren't they? Each tier has both herbivore and carnivore mouths. But this would mean that once you reach level 4, you could basically roll all over every other creature on the planet, except the ones that are also level 4. I mean, having different damage ratings for different mouths isn't such a bad thing, but twenty times the damage?

Come on now.

It just sounds like the creature stage might turn into one of those RPGs where after you've level-grinded enough, you go back to area 1 and fight those 20 HP slimes, hitting them for 8000 damage a hit.
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: stuck on August 26, 2006, 02:51:17 pm
The game will create a balanced ecosystem, so the game should always feel the same. You will (hopefully) have only a little easier time with better mouths. Since when did you have to rely on only your mouth? Besides, it is an older build so more mouths/tweaking/weapons have been added since then.
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Areku on August 26, 2006, 02:52:37 pm
Hopefully they will all balance out in the end, ecosystem wise...remeber that Will said you will never be top predator in the world, but you also have to realize that there will be less superior creatures as well. Hopefully it will balance though...
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Bastardman on August 26, 2006, 02:58:49 pm
The game will create a balanced ecosystem, so the game should always feel the same. You will (hopefully) have only a little easier time with better mouths. Since when did you have to rely on only your mouth? Besides, it is an older build so more mouths/tweaking/weapons have been added since then.
The question is when does it create a balanced ecosystem? When you first leave the cell stage? Or every time you evolve? I know there are going to be creatures that are at roughly equal power to your own, but that doesn't mean it's going to be fun having other creatures hanging around that you barely have to even look at to kill.

I mean, the creatures you fought at brain level 1 are hardly going to simply disappear once you get access to the ubermouths, are they?
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: /lurk on August 26, 2006, 03:02:33 pm
The game will create a balanced ecosystem, so the game should always feel the same. You will (hopefully) have only a little easier time with better mouths. Since when did you have to rely on only your mouth? Besides, it is an older build so more mouths/tweaking/weapons have been added since then.
The question is when does it create a balanced ecosystem? When you first leave the cell stage? Or every time you evolve? I know there are going to be creatures that are at roughly equal power to your own, but that doesn't mean it's going to be fun having other creatures hanging around that you barely have to even look at to kill.

I mean, the creatures you fought at brain level 1 are hardly going to simply disappear once you get access to the ubermouths, are they?

But then you'll be able to go after fiercer, more nutritious vegetables.
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Bastardman on August 26, 2006, 03:05:44 pm
With your +5 Fangs of Willosaursbane?  :P
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Gungnir on August 26, 2006, 03:24:09 pm
.... or get a chainsaw appendage....


You're kidding, right?
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Chaosenigma on August 26, 2006, 03:50:51 pm
Ecosystem anyone?

Spore might just repopulate and add new content based on your power, scaling to your level if you will. In most RPG's after you get levels up and better equiptment there's almost always something that was hard that becomes easier to kill. Same might happen to spore, Moving from plants, to things the size of mice, to more giant man-eating spiders. etc. etc.

I would say once you reach tribe stage the ecosystem is set in place for your planet and no more content is added to your planet, but rather once you reach the space stage content is once again put into your universe.

And if there are uber easy creatures, yay genocide! :D
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Bastardman on August 26, 2006, 03:55:29 pm
Spore might just repopulate and add new content based on your power, scaling to your level if you will. In most RPG's after you get levels up and better equiptment there's almost always something that was hard that becomes easier to kill. Same might happen to spore, Moving from plants, to things the size of mice, to more giant man-eating spiders. etc. etc.
Spore is not an RPG, though. You're evolving, not levelling up.
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Iryn on August 26, 2006, 03:58:53 pm
They've been stressing the fact lately that, no matter how you make your creature, it can survive in the world. I think it was on some of the  new IGN videos.
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: dafool on August 26, 2006, 04:35:34 pm
Think maybe like in TES IV: Oblivion. When you go up a level(evolve) every other thing goes up a level. If other creatures dont evolve then they might just gain alot of health points or do more damage. So, If you stay at low level(dont evolve) then everything stays the same.
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Bastardman on August 26, 2006, 04:40:27 pm
They've been stressing the fact lately that, no matter how you make your creature, it can survive in the world. I think it was on some of the  new IGN videos.
I'm not worried about not being able to survive, I'm worried there'll be no challenge once you've "levelled up" a certain amount and that the game will encourage you to grind and get the "best" parts and stats. Plenty of other people have expressed this concern on the forums, but this thread strongly suggests that those fears were well-founded.

Think maybe like in TES IV: Oblivion. When you go up a level(evolve) every other thing goes up a level. If other creatures dont evolve then they might just gain alot of health points or do more damage. So, If you stay at low level(dont evolve) then everything stays the same.
Everyone's still going to be trying to get to the highest level of parts, though, and nothing has ever suggested that the game could intelligently evolve other creatures by itself. It seems unlikely to me.
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Iryn on August 26, 2006, 04:47:03 pm
I think in the GDC video Will said that you would never be top of the food chain for very long.

I've watched that video too much. :P
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: dvalladt on August 26, 2006, 04:55:08 pm
Well, the costs of the best mouths (damage) and feet (speed) are very high, so maybe you have to sacrifice some things to have those ubermouths and uberfeet. Also there's that theory of having to upgrade the brain before you unlock every column of parts, and that unlocking probably costs more DNA points... I also hope it's not so easy to get to the top of the food chain...
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: aquaman on August 27, 2006, 01:53:10 am
I'm not sure if brain size costs DNA, you just need enough.  In one of the videos from GC, the person doing the demo said that as you collect DNA this bar fills up, and once it is full your brain size increases.  Now I don't know if your DNA is then deducted or it remains the same and you can use it for future use.

EDIT - Yay!  Post 1000  ;D
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: SpaceOddity on August 27, 2006, 02:23:35 am
Congrats Aqua! Yes, I thought that was a bit of new info from the video. It seems the brain wil grow with any strategc decision by the player. This also means you can stay in the creature phase indefinatly, since you need to eat and so gain DNA points to keep your creature alive.
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Uroboros on August 27, 2006, 02:39:30 am
Congrats Aqua!

Im in the same boat as Bastardman here. "Uber"units always tend to spoil things, and knowing the way people work, its likely that thousands of creatures with hundreds of tier 4 weapons stuck on will appear. The other players of Spore wont truly suffer as a result, as the game will notice the mass of tier 4 mouths and mark it as some kind of a "dominant predator" type, and each game should only really seed so many of these high-powered creatures in at any one time. What is a bit of a worry though, is that people will always turn their personal avatar species into invincible uber-critters in their own files, and when it comes time to upload their creatures, their ubercritter goes and sits next to the other millions of ubercritters. How can our games be filled out with other players content if the game also builds a balanced ecosystem / food chain / etc? Doesnt that require prey species and smaller creatures down the line? Currently it just sounds like the game will be building blood-orgies with the occasional "you got squished" message being relayed to the poor newer players. I can hear the wails of frustrated suffering already! ;)

Im sure it will all balance out though. My true concern is how this will effect peoples creature designs. If the game will really sort out the balance issues, the only thing left for me to worry about is peoples artistic sense. Seriously. If people will be making a lot of these uber-creatures, that means my worries of meeting 50000+ species of 12-armed 12-legged 12-mouthed eat-beasts are probably true. I'd like to see variation, interesting creatures, odd designs. Not the same old ubercreature template. Still, with the game so far from release we'll have to see how it all turns out. I will personally be sacrificing functionality for appearance, at least in some of my creatures. I came for the game, but I stayed for the toys.
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: aquaman on August 27, 2006, 02:46:34 am
I think that when you upload your creature, all your previous forms are uploaded too.  So the database will have a successsion of stages in a creature's evolutionary life. 

That also means that when you evolve your creature and the ecosystem has to be balanced (by adding tougher creatures) its all the same creatures as before, but just 1 or 2 steps further up the evolutionary life of those AI creatures.  I wouldn't like to be in a world with a few sets of creatures and then suddenly, they have all gone and been replaced with completly different creatures that you have no tactical advantage over because you have no idea if they are herbivore, carnovore or what weapons they use or how friendly they are.
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: Beatnuki on August 27, 2006, 03:22:50 am
That's a good point. If each stage of the creature game's evolution is reputedly millions or at least thousands of years apart, other species would have developed around you, giving the game a chance to re-evaluate how tough your creature really is and seed the world with as many new species as are necessary.

One thing I don't know......what happens if someone silly makes a creature with no mouth? Would you just walk around until you starve or would the creature editor tell you to not be such an idiot and put a mouth on?
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: aquaman on August 27, 2006, 03:28:50 am
You can make your creature as pathetic or stupid as the player wishes  :P  It just won't survive and if you die, you go back to the last time you made changes.  Hopefully by then you've learnt your lesson.  ;)
Title: Re: Creature Part Stats.
Post by: dvalladt on August 27, 2006, 04:26:38 am
I'm not sure if brain size costs DNA, you just need enough.  In one of the videos from GC, the person doing the demo said that as you collect DNA this bar fills up, and once it is full your brain size increases.  Now I don't know if your DNA is then deducted or it remains the same and you can use it for future use.

Ah, ok! I didn't really got this info. Does it mean that the brain upgrades automatically as you play, and you're forced to advance to the tribal stage when you reach the last upgrade?

EDIT - Yay!  Post 1000  ;D

Congratulations!

Anyway I'm not really worried about ubermouths, etc. Of course I want to feel the game is balanced and challenging, but I don't mind a lot of players going for "dominant predators", since *my* game will be balanced. If Spore adapts to every game style, then everybody's happy. I suspect a lot of people in this forum will go for creatures more varied and interesting than dangerous, vicious carnivores.

Anyway, I'm not sure if the game will upload every evolutionary stage of your creature. But if the database is flooded with high on the food chain monsters, then it would be harder that one of those creatures are randomly downloaded to anybody else's game: maybe the ecosystem doesn't need more than two of those. Maybe that would encourage people to make different creatures...