Author Topic: Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith  (Read 25736 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lord Janos

  • Wizardry Whiz
  • ****
  • Posts: 960
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #60 on: June 04, 2005, 01:34:13 pm »
The way i see it, Anakin turned to the darkside out of desperation to save his wife - i would also probably do the same.  In fact, i would be a Sith anyway.

And the transition ISN'T well handled.  He turned almost instantly.  He didn't think about it, he was ready to have Palpatine arrested and to try to convince him to help him - instead he prods Mace Windu (you can tell Samuel L. Jackson came up with the name) with his lightsaber, cuts off his hand, and then bows before a Sith Lord who he has seen revel in the merciless death of an innocent man and believes he can help him SAVE his wife.

Plus, doesn't he take on board what Palpatine said to him earlier?  He said that Plageous (spelling?) died because he told his student too much.  Did he really think Palpatine, upon learning how to use Plageous' life cheating power, would then tell Anakin only to have him overthrow him as Plageous was?  Yes love clouds the mind, yadda yadda yadda - so does alcohol, drugs, and and anything you have a fascination with. 

Also if the dark side clouds your mind so much, if he was more under the influence of the dark side than love, why would the first thing he asks the Emperor be a question about how she is and if she is safe?


Of course you are entitled to your own opinion... and i myself am a Star Wars fan (not to an obsessive degree), but found the plot holes, poor script and the entire film being CGI virtually to be a little too much.

And the James Earl Jones bit was alright when first heard, but after watching it again (no i didn't go to see it again, i downloaded it to see if it was really that bad... it was) it just sounds very whiney, childish and UN-Vaderlike.  It would've been better if he had instantly acknowledged the fact that he had killed her, started trying to kill the Emperor in rage, being lightening-whipped half to death again, and to then submit.  In IV, V and VI Vader is very submissive to the Emperor - not his "equal" as he is made out to be in III. 

Also, something i've never understood... why is Vader considered to be so powerful when he gets his arse completely caned by the inexperienced boy Luke who has only been training a short while?  Where are these great powers we are promised?  It just doesn't work...
« Last Edit: June 04, 2005, 01:36:11 pm by Lord Janos »

Offline Oviraptor

  • Moderator
  • R-Type Force Pod
  • *****
  • Posts: 6688
  • tastes just like chicken
    • View Profile
    • Oviraptor's World
Re: Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #61 on: June 04, 2005, 01:43:16 pm »
Also, something i've never understood... why is Vader considered to be so powerful when he gets his arse completely caned by the inexperienced boy Luke who has only been training a short while? Where are these great powers we are promised? It just doesn't work...

Because he doesn't want to lose his son. He lost all the people he loved most and he didn't want that to happen again. Which is why he tried to get Luke to join the Dark side. And ultimately why he threw Palpatine over the edge.

Offline Lord Janos

  • Wizardry Whiz
  • ****
  • Posts: 960
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #62 on: June 04, 2005, 01:46:14 pm »
So why didn't he incapacitate his son like before and cut off a limb or something?

I know the prophecy and whatnot... but logically it would've been better to have done that.  Plus how come he dies so easily to the Emperors lightening?  Luke takes one hell of a thrashing with it, while Vader has a quick lick and suddenly decides to die.

Offline Oviraptor

  • Moderator
  • R-Type Force Pod
  • *****
  • Posts: 6688
  • tastes just like chicken
    • View Profile
    • Oviraptor's World
Re: Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #63 on: June 04, 2005, 01:52:22 pm »
Remember he is "more machine than man" and electrical circuitry doesn't like being...uh...electricuted.

So why didn't he incapacitate his son like before and cut off a limb or something?

How would that help?

Offline Jecrell

  • Battlezone Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 302
  • Giant Snowy Ape
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #64 on: June 04, 2005, 01:56:45 pm »
I hope you don't mind my helping in to ease your stressed frenzy of trying to understand the film. I'm sure everyone is nitpicking it to death --
First off, I thought episode I was mediocre, episode II was meh, but episode III was really good for me. =/

Also if the dark side clouds your mind so much, if he was more under the influence of the dark side than love, why would the first thing he asks the Emperor be a question about how she is and if she is safe?

Passion rules the dark side, and after getting his legs chopped off and his body charred over right nicely -- I think the recovery process would allow his mind to clear of his passion that rules him. He got his bearings back and his priorities back in shape -- he loved Padme.

Quote
Of course you are entitled to your own opinion... and i myself am a Star Wars fan (not to an obsessive degree), but found the plot holes, poor script and the entire film being CGI virtually to be a little too much.

Plot holes?
Poor script is there at times, I can agree.
CGI -- damn I love CGI, but that's not why I like the film.

Quote
And the James Earl Jones bit was alright when first heard, but after watching it again (no i didn't go to see it again, i downloaded it to see if it was really that bad... it was) it just sounds very whiney, childish and UN-Vaderlike. It would've been better if he had instantly acknowledged the fact that he had killed her, started trying to kill the Emperor in rage, being lightening-whipped half to death again, and to then submit. In IV, V and VI Vader is very submissive to the Emperor - not his "equal" as he is made out to be in III.

I tried to place the voice -- then I remembered how Anakin sounded -- they tried to blend it, and I'm very sure that's how the whiney sounds came about. I saw it in the theater Janos, and no doubt, if you saw this online the effects are so drastically different that I can understand you hating the film. God, I'm so happy I didn't do that.

Anyway, see above for my answer, because I thought that the effects were well placed so people could understand the passion that rules Anakin. However, my ONLY SERIOUS nitpick is -- how he killed the younglings. That was sooo sooo surprising. That's something you should really argue about if you're not in-favor of the film, but I'm not looking for absolute realism as much as a good movie.

Quote
Also, something i've never understood... why is Vader considered to be so powerful when he gets his arse completely caned by the inexperienced boy Luke who has only been training a short while? Where are these great powers we are promised? It just doesn't work...

... You're thinking too hard, and now you've reached a point where you can't even trust the magic of the old movies. Now for god's sakes man -- you know those were good movies. Don't let fear rule you Lord Janos... =P

Offline Lord Janos

  • Wizardry Whiz
  • ****
  • Posts: 960
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #65 on: June 04, 2005, 02:00:55 pm »
No, i went to the theatre to see it first, then downloaded it to watch it again.  I like to see films twice to see if i missed anything.

And the best part was where he killed the "younglings" - shame we didn't actually see it to be honest.  Bump the rating up to 18, i don't care - i would worship a film if for once it showed this sort of stuff... i was very disappointed we didn't see them actually storming the temple.

Offline Jecrell

  • Battlezone Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 302
  • Giant Snowy Ape
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #66 on: June 04, 2005, 02:23:16 pm »
No, i went to the theatre to see it first, then downloaded it to watch it again. I like to see films twice to see if i missed anything.

And the best part was where he killed the "younglings" - shame we didn't actually see it to be honest. Bump the rating up to 18, i don't care - i would worship a film if for once it showed this sort of stuff... i was very disappointed we didn't see them actually storming the temple.

Well it's really a matter of taste, a lot of people would not like it, but really, it was just so unexpected -- directly after joining the dark side he goes to the temple and kills all the children there. =)

Offline Lord Janos

  • Wizardry Whiz
  • ****
  • Posts: 960
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #67 on: June 04, 2005, 02:30:50 pm »
That's the point.  I would hope that people don't like to see children getting murdered.  We've seen it all now... mass slaguhter, rape, pillaging - there are only a few little taboos left in (sensible) movie culture, and if you want to make something striking then the best way to do so is to tap into one of those taboos.  In this case Lucas could for once be on to a winner - by showing just how "clouded" and poisoned Anakin's mind had become by making you witness this gravest of evils.  I get kicks out of it (watching the film like that, not by doing it) - i'm sure plenty of others would too.  I honestly don't care about the politically correct mothers or children holding their toy lightsabers and what they think - Star Wars may be for kids, but the fanbase is much much older generally, so i think bump the rating up a little and lets have a bit of fun.

Killing some Trade Federation aliens that everyone hates anyway doesn't show us how dark Anakin has become, killing the children does - and to firmly drill it in and to stop making him look like a petulant child and puppet of Palpatine Lucas could've at least shown us one of the kids getting decapitated or something... no blood needed, just a quick taster.  Just my personal preference of course.

Offline Oviraptor

  • Moderator
  • R-Type Force Pod
  • *****
  • Posts: 6688
  • tastes just like chicken
    • View Profile
    • Oviraptor's World
Re: Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #68 on: June 04, 2005, 02:34:07 pm »
Lucas could've at least shown us one of the kids getting decapitated or something... no blood needed, just a quick taster.  Just my personal preference of course.

Of course there is no blood! It's a lightsaber! See? No Blood!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2006, 08:09:40 pm by Oviraptor »

Offline Tal

  • Rigel Rescuer
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
  • Farm boy
    • View Profile
    • My Blog
Re: Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #69 on: June 04, 2005, 06:52:35 pm »
Well, Lord Janos, I used to have the same question as you did about Luke whooping Vader in a second-wind attack that seemed almost pitiful in my opinion. But it is obvious during that scene that Vader is fighting his son half-heartedly, and not nearly giving it all he had. Second, why did Vader take three seconds of force lightning and keel over? Simple. The Emperor was merely toying with Luke, taking time to kill him, but when his apprentice, perhaps the only person he ever imarted even the tiniest notion of trust to, betrayed him, he isn't exactly going to hold back.

About Anakin's transition to the Dark Side, it was well handled if you actually think about it. From the moment Darth Siddious revealed hmself to Anakin, young Skywalker was already his student. During the scenes afterwards, you could tell that he was contemplating the Dark Side, weighing the options, but trying to deny that he was already in it's grasp. The scene with Windu, while made cheesy by Jackson's dialouge, was very powerful and you saw Anakin holding onto the Light Side with all his grasp, denying his growing consumption by the Dark Side as he called for a fair trial. However, since he already knew the Dark Side was the only thing to save Padme, he was sold.

The irony here is that the Dark Side couldn't have saved Padme. In fact, she died because he turned. Even though it was inevitable, as Anakin's premonitions indicated, it is still sad. If fate had been different and he had killed Siddious, then Padme wouldn't have died and the prophecy would have been fulfilled. However, by accepting the Dark Side, Anakin was directly responsible for her death.

There. Now, any more plot holes for me to fill?

...Also, has anyone actually sat there and contemplated the fact that the Empire fell due to a bunch of Ewoks? It's really funny when you think about it. Just a thought.
There are some things mankind was not meant to know...

"If you can't take the heat, get off the car hood." -Bucky Katt

Offline Oviraptor

  • Moderator
  • R-Type Force Pod
  • *****
  • Posts: 6688
  • tastes just like chicken
    • View Profile
    • Oviraptor's World
Re: Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #70 on: June 04, 2005, 06:57:16 pm »
Second, why did Vader take three seconds of force lightning and keel over? Simple. The Emperor was merely toying with Luke, taking time to kill him, but when his apprentice, perhaps the only person he ever imarted even the tiniest notion of trust to, betrayed him, he isn't exactly going to hold back.

Plus:

Remember he is "more machine than man" and electrical circuitry doesn't like being...uh...electricuted.

Offline Tal

  • Rigel Rescuer
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
  • Farm boy
    • View Profile
    • My Blog
Re: Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #71 on: June 04, 2005, 07:10:18 pm »
Now the whole circuitry thing, I might buy, but I still believe that the Emperor was holding back on Luke. Either way, Vader still died.
There are some things mankind was not meant to know...

"If you can't take the heat, get off the car hood." -Bucky Katt

Offline Lord Janos

  • Wizardry Whiz
  • ****
  • Posts: 960
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #72 on: June 05, 2005, 05:37:42 am »
Well of course if you think that, then that's fine.  Personally i feel it was a bad film - entertaining, but that doesn't make a film good.  You obviously don't.  End of discussion on my part.

Offline tomberg

  • Galaxian Guru
  • *
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #73 on: June 05, 2005, 08:05:33 am »
i thought it was really good, much better than the phantom menace and clone wars.

Offline zaphod

  • Akalabeth Addict
  • **
  • Posts: 199
  • Didn't yah hear, I come in 6 packs.
    • View Profile
    • Me and my wifes little blog
Re: Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #74 on: June 06, 2005, 06:33:18 am »
I think there were plot holes and such, and there was way to much CGI, need more models.  Look at Lord of the Rings to see how to do it right.  I liked this last one.  Real trouble is that I would have completely changed all 3 movies to be much more cohesive.  Maybe filmed them at the same time like they did with LOTR.