Author Topic: Florida Senate Votes to Criminalize the Diviner's Sage  (Read 31149 times)

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Offline Ultramarine

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Re: Florida Senate Votes to Criminalize the Diviner's Sage
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2008, 03:37:22 pm »
I'm all for legalizing EVERYTHING, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

Like, legalizing guns (for hunting), but not murder. Legalizing sex (AKA bring down that damned age-limit, to like... 16.) but not rape, etc.

@Holstein: If they legalize it... the government will.

Exactly!
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Offline Daxx

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Re: Florida Senate Votes to Criminalize the Diviner's Sage
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2008, 03:38:40 pm »
You kids are being stupid.

You don't seriously think that would work in the real world, do you?

For once, Holstein seems to be the sensible one (even if this thread explains a lot...)

Offline HolsteinCow

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Re: Florida Senate Votes to Criminalize the Diviner's Sage
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2008, 03:39:08 pm »
@Holstein: If they(the government) legalize it... the government will.

what the ****  ??? ??? ???

Offline /lurk

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Re: Florida Senate Votes to Criminalize the Diviner's Sage
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2008, 03:39:52 pm »
Honestly I don't really care what happens in Florida. I'm more concerned about how the government in the U.K. keep paying for studies into this and then completely ignoring the results. A recent example from the Scottish government shows what I mean.

Holstein is, as usual, right about most of this, but we all need to reconsider our drugs policy to make it fit the real world. What we've got now isn't getting anywhere.
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Offline Axelgear

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Re: Florida Senate Votes to Criminalize the Diviner's Sage
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2008, 03:42:36 pm »
Well, the government owns marijuana farms, but so can private businesses. We allow the sale of alcohol, so why not let people grow hemp crops? Not only can the leaves get people high, but the rest of the plant has uses too. You'd be surprised the things it can be used for (Paper, rope, clothing, seeds can be used to make oils for various things, etc). It's a versatile crop.

As for it making people more powerful, it'll make gangs less powerful and restore legitimate business to the world. Works for me.


Daxx, what're you talking about? Alcohol is a prime example. It's a legal substance, it's easily abused, it can addict people and destroy their lives, just like any other substance. When it was banned, it became a booming industry controlled by gangs, violence thrived, and many people got sick or killed by unsafe alcohol. All banning a substance does is drive those that use it into a black market and black markets are only regulated by violence.

I know people will abuse substances, but they do anyway, and you don't have a right to stop them. It's their body and their choice. We can't start forcing people to live by our standards of health or we start taking away their freedom of choice. At least legalizing it ensures it's cleaner, safer, and takes power from gangs.
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Offline Daxx

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Re: Florida Senate Votes to Criminalize the Diviner's Sage
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2008, 03:44:21 pm »
I don't give a crap about the practicalities of alcohol or marijuana legislation, because that's not what I'm addressing at all. Leave off with the goddamn straw men already, it's sickening enough in the other threads. You are suggesting that everything should be legal and free, and I am saying that is a goddamn stupid idea. That is all.

Offline Axelgear

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Re: Florida Senate Votes to Criminalize the Diviner's Sage
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2008, 03:49:49 pm »
In terms of people using them, like alcohol, marijuana, tobacco, LSD, ecstasy... Yeah. I think they should. Why shouldn't they? If you ban them, you're claiming moral authority and becoming condescending, stating "I know how you should live your life better than you". Do you honestly think bans work? People use drugs every day, and heroin has become many times cheaper today than it was when it was first banned. All banning drugs has done is create a multi-million dollar crime syndicate that leaves many people sick from poor quality drugs or dead from violence and disease.
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Offline Daxx

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Re: Florida Senate Votes to Criminalize the Diviner's Sage
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2008, 03:50:26 pm »
Where does the freedom to do anything to yourself end?

Offline HolsteinCow

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Re: Florida Senate Votes to Criminalize the Diviner's Sage
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2008, 03:51:27 pm »
Well, the government owns marijuana farms, but so can private businesses.

the vast majority of marijuana farms are controlled by drug cartels, not the government or legitimate businesses

Offline Axelgear

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Re: Florida Senate Votes to Criminalize the Diviner's Sage
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2008, 03:53:18 pm »
Where another person's rights begin. I can do anything I want to myself and my property until it impacts you. To use the old phrase, "my right to swing my fist ends where your face begins". If I want to poison myself, it's fine, so long as it's not on your property, with your money, or your poison.

So, Holstein? Force them to be legitimate. Have them be forced to pass health inspections before they can sell it in stores. You get a lot more money selling product by a brand name in stores with reliability than selling it on the streets. Otherwise, why would people have gone back to selling alcohol in stores after prohibition ended? At least this way, they're obeying the law and are criminals no more.
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Offline Jagon

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Re: Florida Senate Votes to Criminalize the Diviner's Sage
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2008, 03:54:21 pm »
less power the govt has over what we do the better. who are they to say whether we can't do things to ourselves?

whats next, a ban on masturbation?


also: id rather have people sitting safely in their homes high off weed rather than getting drunk in some bar and going home to beat their wives. alcohol is a waaay worse drug than marijuana.

Offline Doctor Z

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Re: Florida Senate Votes to Criminalize the Diviner's Sage
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2008, 03:54:36 pm »
Daxx... why should it end? Once it starts affecting other people, it's not really "doing things to yourself" anymore, is it?

Offline Werechicken

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Re: Florida Senate Votes to Criminalize the Diviner's Sage
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2008, 03:54:57 pm »
Some incredibly dumb arguing here. Mainly from the people who believe legalization is the way forward - It's not. Also the freedoms of a person can go to hell for all I care if it means allowing companies to try and market heroin to the public.

Drug addiction causes an increase in crime, puts a drain on the health service and destroys lives (not just the addicts). The reason many drugs are made illegal is because of the detrimental affect they have on society as a whole. Additionally a drug such as this could also be potentially used as a date rape drug, another reason some substances are made illegal or placed under strict controls.

This would be true even if it were legalized, just look at alcohol. The only reason why alcohol is legal is because it's so firmly embedded in our culture. If alcohol had been discovered a few years ago it would be illegal.

While there are some arguments for making drugs legal (would result in fewer accidental overdoses and might be able to gain some revenue from it) it is immediately countered by the fact that the number of addicts would soar, obviously these companies would be selling these drugs to the general public and therefore would be marketing it at them.

Making the possession of a dug illegal severely limits the number of people who can come into contact with the drug and ensures that the number of addicts remains low, relatively speaking.
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Offline Andrew Ryan

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Re: Florida Senate Votes to Criminalize the Diviner's Sage
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2008, 03:56:45 pm »
Where does the freedom to do anything to yourself end?

When it begins to affect you short term (1-6 days) physical and mental health aswell as your ability to be a good citizen (by good citizen, I mean not interfering with other citizens in a negative way). I would classify Heroine and meth under affecting your short term physical and mental health.


Edit: Warning - while you were typing 4 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Damn, this is a fast moving thread!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 03:59:04 pm by Andrew Ryan »
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Offline HolsteinCow

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Re: Florida Senate Votes to Criminalize the Diviner's Sage
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2008, 03:58:48 pm »
So, Holstein? Force them to be legitimate. Have them be forced to pass health inspections before they can sell it in stores. You get a lot more money selling product by a brand name in stores with reliability than selling it on the streets. Otherwise, why would people have gone back to selling alcohol in stores after prohibition ended? At least this way, they're obeying the law and are criminals no more.

the cartels would probably just create front organizations to sell marijuana to the united states legitimately and use the revenue they gain to power their more illegal enterprises