Gaming Steve Message Board

Will Wright's Spore => Spore: General => Topic started by: Lippy on May 30, 2008, 01:28:37 pm

Title: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Lippy on May 30, 2008, 01:28:37 pm
There's been discussion about the number of stars in a Spore galaxy.  It used to be 500,000 stars, but recently it was said to be a couple million. I posted a link to a picture I made showing 500,000 stars in an unrelated thread but it largely went unnoticed.  Darkwanderer suggested I started a new topic on this, so I thought I might as well. 

Out of boredom and the quest for learning, I wrote a quick little flash program to draw 500,000 stars to show just how many stars that is.  Just click the big white star to start drawing the stars.   You can right click and zoom in to see it closer.  When zoomed you can left click drag the image to pan around. 

STARS (http://tomrathman.com/startest2.html)

Keep in mind, if there really are 2 million stars, this is only a quarter of the stars in a Spore galaxy. 

I did it in Flash, instead of posting just the picture for two reasons.
1: I like doing things the hard way.
2: It also demonstrates the power of procedural generation. 

There is 1 non-black pixel in every 4x4 grid.  There are 707x707 4x4 pixel grids, which is roughly 500,000 stars and is a res of 2828x2828.  That's about a 23MB image.  The flash swf file used to draw it is 7kB.  It would be 3kB if I didn't embed the font. 
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: tompayne on May 30, 2008, 01:36:34 pm
thanks for putting that into perspective.  i was having a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea of so many stars to explore.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Ultramarine on May 30, 2008, 01:37:34 pm
500,000 in general terms is a lot.
But it makes things more varied (if things already were), and I think it would give the galaxy a more realistic size.

I say at least 2 to 5 million as a minimum.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Holiace on May 30, 2008, 01:58:46 pm
I think that 100k planets and 5x bigger would be better, actually...
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Ciddler on May 30, 2008, 02:05:01 pm
Well, looks like I will be PRETTY BUSY trying to conquer the universe.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: 0goober0 on May 30, 2008, 02:06:14 pm
wow... :o
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Tr0n on May 30, 2008, 02:08:09 pm
Note that each star can host 0-4 (I think) planets in the game.  Any of which can contain life/the potential for life.

If we take a best-case scanario for all of our 500K stars, that does turn out to be 2 million planets with up to 16 (don't remember the source for this) species of creature.

16X2M = 32 million creatures to explore if every star's 4 life supporting planets has 16 creatures.  This would require many many many creations across millions of people.  

Of course, the chance to find habitable planets will be far decreased from this value (who knows how many planets will have life).  Still.  If Spore sells even 500,000 units (1 percent of The Sims, and each person makes one single creature, that's enough to populate the entire galaxy, assuming the chance to find life in a system is less than 25 percent.  

Now, imagine if Spore sells 50 million like The Sims.  One's galaxy gets pretty crowded; to the point that there are far more creatures than the theoretical max of a 500k galaxy could support.


Okay, enough babbling.  I'm just thinking of the number of man hours that go into fully inhabiting a galaxy 100 percent with 16 creatures a planet (with all 4 planets habitable)... assuming a total creation time of even 10 minutes a creature (that's real low) is 5.34 million man-hours of work... 3 times more than if 50 people worked on Spore's programming 24 hours a day for 4 years straight (longer than the full-on development cycle of Spore at EA).  The game really has the potential to make use of free, creative labor with us making all of the content.

So from the strength of procedural generation to employing the player to provide artwork for the masses, Spore has the makings of "the last game you'll ever play."  Hopefully expansion packs make things less monotonous after you've played the game for more than a year.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Uroboros on May 30, 2008, 02:14:39 pm
Remember that being more realistic doesnt necessarily make it more fun. Being a game, an over-abundance of stars/planets would actually make it impossibly hard to recall and return to places we have already visited. Though I assume there is probably a 'bookmark planet' and 'space-jump to location' feature, my point still stands, I uh... I think?
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: 762 on May 30, 2008, 02:19:29 pm
Remember that being more realistic doesnt necessarily make it more fun. Being a game, an over-abundance of stars/planets would actually make it impossibly hard to recall and return to places we have already visited. Though I assume there is probably a 'bookmark planet' and 'space-jump to location' feature, my point still stands, I uh... I think?

There is a function to do that. Once you visit a planet, it goes in your record book along with all of the life and information you gathered about the planet.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: 0goober0 on May 30, 2008, 02:32:25 pm
Remember that being more realistic doesnt necessarily make it more fun. Being a game, an over-abundance of stars/planets would actually make it impossibly hard to recall and return to places we have already visited. Though I assume there is probably a 'bookmark planet' and 'space-jump to location' feature, my point still stands, I uh... I think?
yea, that's why when you've showed the space phase recently it has lines drawn all over it. I'm assuming that's where you've been so far.

Note that each star can host 0-4 (I think) planets in the game.  Any of which can contain life/the potential for life.

If we take a best-case scanario for all of our 500K stars, that does turn out to be 2 million planets with up to 16 (don't remember the source for this) species of creature.

16X2M = 32 million creatures to explore if every star's 4 life supporting planets has 16 creatures.  This would require many many many creations across millions of people. 

Of course, the chance to find habitable planets will be far decreased from this value (who knows how many planets will have life).  Still.  If Spore sells even 500,000 units (1 percent of The Sims, and each person makes one single creature, that's enough to populate the entire galaxy, assuming the chance to find life in a system is less than 25 percent. 

Now, imagine if Spore sells 50 million like The Sims.  One's galaxy gets pretty crowded; to the point that there are far more creatures than the theoretical max of a 500k galaxy could support.


Okay, enough babbling.  I'm just thinking of the number of man hours that go into fully inhabiting a galaxy 100 percent with 16 creatures a planet (with all 4 planets habitable)... assuming a total creation time of even 10 minutes a creature (that's real low) is 5.34 million man-hours of work... 3 times more than if 50 people worked on Spore's programming 24 hours a day for 4 years straight (longer than the full-on development cycle of Spore at EA).  The game really has the potential to make use of free, creative labor with us making all of the content.

So from the strength of procedural generation to employing the player to provide artwork for the masses, Spore has the makings of "the last game you'll ever play."  Hopefully expansion packs make things less monotonous after you've played the game for more than a year.
They actually said pretty recently that there would be multiple millions of stars and that the average planet would probably have about 4-5 planets. Also, I don't know where you heard 16 creatures per planet but that sucks.  That's not very many creatures at all.....Spore planets may be smaller than regular planets but still...Even if only one species per planet makes it into Civ phase that means only 15 other types of creatures running around the planet?  That's not very many at all....
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: DarkDragon on May 30, 2008, 03:02:19 pm
They said each star would have about 4 planets on average which means some could have 0 others could have 8.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Holiace on May 30, 2008, 03:06:20 pm
They said each star would have about 4 planets on average which means some could have 0 others could have 8.

Yup, that would be a good assumption!

Too bad all planets are the same size...
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: DarkDragon on May 30, 2008, 03:24:48 pm
Are they? They also said your planets would vary between 400 and 700 somethings (I think) so I'm guessing moons are either smaller than that or only big planets have moons.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Holiace on May 30, 2008, 03:28:52 pm
Are they? They also said your planets would vary between 400 and 700 somethings (I think) so I'm guessing moons are either smaller than that or only big planets have moons.

My planets would be 400-700 what?
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Holiace on May 30, 2008, 03:32:28 pm
The units weren't specified but the planets were once reported to range from 400 to 700 spore units with I think 500 being average.

Spore units?
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: DarkDragon on May 30, 2008, 03:32:56 pm
Yeah, Caryl said they would range from 400 to 700 "somethings" which is probably some game-only-related unit.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Techleo on May 30, 2008, 04:19:58 pm
 :) In reality all of these equations will likely be flexible. Most of the Xml generation sequences can be tweaked to whatever you like. Personally Id like a galaxy with 80 percent of stars having between 2 and 3 planets. Only 10 percent of them supporting life. I actually dont want to find life. I want to find the void. Vast empty areas to terraform and colonize. With meeting aliens being extremely EXTREMELY rare. On the par of maybe within the first year of playing a galaxy. Haha, I LOVE SPORE! The possibilities are sooo endless!
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Gungnir on May 30, 2008, 04:23:38 pm
Aww..now how are we gonna find that earth easter egg? By looking where it's actually located?
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: The Time Traveller on May 30, 2008, 04:25:32 pm
:) In reality all of these equations will likely be flexible. Most of the Xml generation sequences can be tweaked to whatever you like. Personally Id like a galaxy with 80 percent of stars having between 2 and 3 planets. Only 10 percent of them supporting life. I actually dont want to find life. I want to find the void. Vast empty areas to terraform and colonize. With meeting aliens being extremely EXTREMELY rare. On the par of maybe within the first year of playing a galaxy. Haha, I LOVE SPORE! The possibilities are sooo endless!
That would honestly suck and remove Spore's point if it was once a year.  Now I would like unlife to be commoner than life, but I don't want life that rare.  Like, maybe 25% of solar systems have at least one planet with an alien coming from it.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: 0goober0 on May 30, 2008, 04:51:01 pm
Aww..now how are we gonna find that earth easter egg? By looking where it's actually located?
that's the idea  ;)
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Lippy on May 30, 2008, 06:42:50 pm
They said each star would have about 4 planets on average which means some could have 0 others could have 8.

Unfortunately in the same quote where Lucy said there were a couple million stars, she also said that they would have up to 5 planets. 

Now the problem is the Solar system shown in the NASA video.  That clearly had all 8 planets.  Now it would work if they're only talking about having up to 5 "habitable" planets, which don't include the gas giants.  Mercury, Venus, Mars, Earth, and the Moon would make the 5 planets you can terraform in the Solar System. 
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: 0goober0 on May 30, 2008, 06:46:57 pm
They said each star would have about 4 planets on average which means some could have 0 others could have 8.

Unfortunately in the same quote where Lucy said there were a couple million stars, she also said that they would have up to 5 planets. 

Now the problem is the Solar system shown in the NASA video.  That clearly had all 8 planets.  Now it would work if they're only talking about having up to 5 "habitable" planets, which don't include the gas giants.  Mercury, Venus, Mars, Earth, and the Moon would make the 5 planets you can terraform in the Solar System. 
I think she was talking in general. Our solar system is apparently very rare in that it has 8 planets. Most stars don't have that many and they're trying to make the galaxy in spore realistic. She also said in that video that you would be able to find our solar system as an easter egg so I think it's possible for stars to have more than 5 planets but I might have heard wrong/interpreted wrong.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: DarkDragon on May 30, 2008, 06:49:54 pm
Yes, our own solar system is supposed to be in Spore as an easter egg.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Fobok on May 30, 2008, 06:52:11 pm
Yes, our own solar system is supposed to be in Spore as an easter egg.

And I intend to find it even if it takes me years.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: SporeGames on May 30, 2008, 07:44:50 pm
Remember that being more realistic doesnt necessarily make it more fun. Being a game, an over-abundance of stars/planets would actually make it impossibly hard to recall and return to places we have already visited. Though I assume there is probably a 'bookmark planet' and 'space-jump to location' feature, my point still stands, I uh... I think?

No. No it doesn't
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Jennifer Reitz on May 30, 2008, 07:45:25 pm
500,000 stars, much less 2 million, is as close to infinity as makes no difference in terms of the actual experience of any one player. Can any person ever visit them all, within a human lifespan, much less the short lifespan of a game, or even a given model of computer (before it needs replacement or upgrading)? No. There will always be more out there than any player can ever hope to even glimpse.

One could rush through Spore's space stage, flitting from planet to planet as fast as possible, and still only see but the tiniest fraction of the game, and in the process miss all the small details that make up, say, one single world.

Even if a planet has but 16 unique life forms on it, the combinations of ways in which they can interact, fight, form alliances, avoid each other, chase each other, eat or help or harm each other could provide endless hours of natural science fun. I fully expect to see YouTube nature documentaries about the ecologies of these alien worlds, and some of them might even be funny or interesting. Flitting about means missing all the details.

On the other hand, one could concentrate on only the near region of space and spend hundreds of hours just exploring a handful of worlds to truly get the feeling of them, and of how things live and die on them. Since it has been confirmed that it will be possible to leave the UFO and go on walkabout, the kinds of adventures open up dramatically. Imagine surveying a planet on foot, trying to catalog every life form, or sneak into an alien city without causing a panic, or even playing 'predator' and hunting the most dangerous species one can find.

Faced with such sheer enormity, virtual infinitude, it is interesting - I think - to consider all the play of the game overall. Each player will have their own literally unique experience of Spore. Each will draw their own unique hypothetical line through the galaxy, as they move about from star to star. Some will head straight as possible for the center of the galaxy where something unknown waits, but miss all the wonders of the edge (is there anything just outside that edge? That's a question, isn't it?). Others will trace a wandering path around their homeworld, as they gradually spiral outward, trying to gain a feel for their local region of the galaxy. Still other players may  elect to concentrate on skipping everything but advanced technological worlds, forming alliances to the end of amassing an armada, and claiming an empire. Or perhaps, some will eschew all living worlds, to seek the hope of finding the rumored 'robot' race components, supposedly only to be found on barren, dead worlds.

It is possible that no two people will entirely feel as if they are talking about the same game, in some ways. That, I think, is utterly fascinating.

Of course, Spore has some sharp limitations. Eventually, all of the forms of attack, defense, and behavior of creatures will become a blur, easily generalized into expected action. There is a clear limit to the amount of difference that is possible in the game. Then again, considering the sheer power of the editors, and the determination of some players, it may remain entrancing just to see what somebody has managed to come up with. One could set a personal goal, such as 'collecting' observations of things based on famous or obscure science fiction and fantasy inventions, seeking those things out preferentially, to see what can be done.

It would be literally impossible to conquer the entire galaxy, or to kill all life within it. The game universe is just too large - unless there are weapons of hyper-destruction in the game, capable of blasting entire cubic parsecs at a time. I doubt that. But I would imagine that there could be bragging rights in trying to make the biggest empire with the most species joined, or to kill off the largest region or somesuch.

I think it is going to be an interesting choice, just how to play Spore. To explore in detail, or to rush through, or to seek out rarity, or some combination of these things. I expect players will probably alternate between these behaviors, over time, as they grow bored with one path, and try another in turn.

Wouldn't it be interesting if one day we see two players comparing notes, and neither can easily relate to the other because their paths were so different? If that ever happens, I will be very, very impressed with Spore. 
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: ARCosta on May 31, 2008, 02:56:03 am
Wow... So many letters...

About finding our solar system maybe the position of that easter egg in the galaxy is procedurally generated so that eventually you find it based on playing time or something, you know, like some events occur in a RPG based on time of day or play time.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: DoggySpew on May 31, 2008, 04:13:39 am
Wow... So many letters...

About finding our solar system maybe the position of that easter egg in the galaxy is procedurally generated so that eventually you find it based on playing time or something, you know, like some events occur in a RPG based on time of day or play time.

More likely, it could be a wormhole that can take you there. Wormholes may as well be randomly created so discovering the right wormhole would just be a matter of playing the campaign.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: 0goober0 on May 31, 2008, 07:40:56 am
Wow... So many letters...

About finding our solar system maybe the position of that easter egg in the galaxy is procedurally generated so that eventually you find it based on playing time or something, you know, like some events occur in a RPG based on time of day or play time.

More likely, it could be a wormhole that can take you there. Wormholes may as well be randomly created so discovering the right wormhole would just be a matter of playing the campaign.
I think she actually said that our solar system would be where it actually is. So if you know where our solar system is located in the galaxy you'll have a much better chance of finding it.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Spore-addict on May 31, 2008, 08:28:28 am
Lippy: since when has the moon become a planet ? LOL

I think the amount of life in spore is a bit too high.

I think a 25 to 50% chance of life in a solar system would be better.

Well just lower the percentage of life a bit that would not hurt.

Also another thing could be to make buildings, creatures etc become more and more strange the further away from your home solar system you come. That would really make it intresting to venture longer and longer away.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Holiace on May 31, 2008, 08:45:27 am
Lippy: since when has the moon become a planet ? LOL

I think the amount of life in spore is a bit too high.

I think a 25 to 50% chance of life in a solar system would be better.

Well just lower the percentage of life a bit that would not hurt.

I totally agree. I want to be able to find many planets without life!
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Ultramarine on May 31, 2008, 08:49:58 am
Yeah, finding life on every planet would take away the point of terraforming and crafting your own there for making life.

That's been my mission when I get the game, craft a dead lifeless planet into a bountiful beautiful world of your own.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Holiace on May 31, 2008, 08:53:14 am
Yeah, finding life on every planet would take away the point of terraforming and crafting your own there for making life.

That's been my mission when I get the game, craft a dead lifeless planet into a bountiful beautiful world of your own.

Yup.

Even better idea: Some areas are very populated and some are completely deserted!
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Ultramarine on May 31, 2008, 09:00:08 am
Only things that would exist in those areas are nebular clouds, proto-stars and young planets waiting to be terraformed :D.

Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Fobok on May 31, 2008, 09:11:29 am
I'm kind of looking forward to finding other intelligent life.

One idea makes me think of a book I read a couple years back. (Learning the World, by Ken MacLeod.) A colony ship arrives in a new system only to find the one already habitable planet in the system is already occupied by a more primitive species. So they start to colonize the rest of the system around that planet, not thinking that the aliens might think of those planets as theirs despite being unable to reach them yet.

Anyway, I plan to redo that part of the scenario in Spore, just to see what happens when the local life gets a UFO.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Lippy on May 31, 2008, 10:17:43 am
Lippy: since when has the moon become a planet ? LOL
I knew someone was going to nitpick that.   :D  I was just commenting that if there are still moons in the game and they are habitable, they would probably be counted in the "up to 5" planet number.  Like goober said, she was probably just speaking generally.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Bona Fide Supraman on May 31, 2008, 11:00:27 am
Lippy: since when has the moon become a planet ? LOL

For once you have a point. Unfortunately you wrote "LOL" after it, all in capitals.

This nullifies all positive points you could have taken for actually saying something that was correct.

Yeah, finding life on every planet would take away the point of terraforming and crafting your own there for making life.

That's been my mission when I get the game, craft a dead lifeless planet into a bountiful beautiful world of your own.

I'm pretty certain there will be more than enough dead planets.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Jagon on May 31, 2008, 11:04:12 am
i havent read all the posts but am I the only person here who thinks 500 000 stars is too much?

ill be satisfied with a couple thousand, 50k max
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Ciddler on May 31, 2008, 12:00:41 pm
i havent read all the posts but am I the only person here who thinks 500 000 stars is too much?

ill be satisfied with a couple thousand, 50k max

See it this way: it is better to have too many than too little. It would be pretty weak if there were only 500 stars, for example. So with 500k stars you can expand or just be satisfied with what you have reached.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Bona Fide Supraman on May 31, 2008, 12:32:28 pm
i havent read all the posts but am I the only person here who thinks 500 000 stars is too much?

ill be satisfied with a couple thousand, 50k max

It basically allows the people with no friends to play forever without running out of stars.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: MTCason on May 31, 2008, 02:06:38 pm
Wright said in an article some time ago that if one were to play for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, it would take more than 70-odd years to view everything that -ships- in Spore.  Not counting custom content.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: DarkDragon on May 31, 2008, 02:13:17 pm
2 million planets over 70 years leaves 28571 planets to explore per year, that makes 78 planets a day, 3 planets an hour which makes it 1 planet every 20 minutes.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Hammerman58 on May 31, 2008, 02:18:53 pm
I think this just shows that the gameplay of Spore in space will become repetive. If they are going to offer that much to explore you will probaly have everything in just under 250 planets.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: KL0k on May 31, 2008, 02:20:19 pm
guess it depends on how many ppl gonna buy this title *shrug*
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: DarkDragon on May 31, 2008, 02:28:08 pm
Nobody is gonna be looking for a new planet every 20 minutes though, people usually find one they like and do something with it, when it pleases them they move on.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Hammerman58 on May 31, 2008, 02:32:59 pm
The amount of planets and the frequency that they will apear will be high enough that all problems aside you should get to more then 1 planet every 20 min. I would assume that you could get 10 planets every 20 min.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: DarkDragon on May 31, 2008, 02:35:23 pm
My calculations assume you take 20 minutes to explore each of them and do something there, of course when you get to a new solar system you find like 5 planets but you still have to check them out.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: xirtap on May 31, 2008, 02:55:14 pm
My calculations assume you take 20 minutes to explore each of them and do something there, of course when you get to a new solar system you find like 5 planets but you still have to check them out.

It's pretty foolish to assume something about a game we've never even played. For all you know it could take 5 minutes to check out a planet.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Holiace on May 31, 2008, 03:30:47 pm
My calculations assume you take 20 minutes to explore each of them and do something there, of course when you get to a new solar system you find like 5 planets but you still have to check them out.

It's pretty foolish to assume something about a game we've never even played. For all you know it could take 5 minutes to check out a planet.

I agree with DarkDragon. I don't think many players will go around in the galaxy to find planets every 30 minutes... I believe that it could go on for a little while but in the long run, no.

I sure will not go around looking for planets all the time. I will desert solar system after solar system just for fun and piece of mind =)
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Ultramarine on May 31, 2008, 03:36:42 pm
I concur, honestly when I get the game my home solar system will be my priority (since that is the only system to check out in the first place until you get the interstellar drive).

I assume around 1/2 hour to and hour per planet in the system.

Aside from that, I wonder if the Spore team will expand the criteria of stars in the system.
In previous videos we saw at least one binary planet system (SXSW vid) but do you think they will include massive stars and have them function as such?
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Shadowgandor on May 31, 2008, 03:40:56 pm
Yeah, finding life on every planet would take away the point of terraforming and crafting your own there for making life.

That's been my mission when I get the game, craft a dead lifeless planet into a bountiful beautiful world of your own.

That's still possible while the planet has life on it.
Pump gasses in it, keep pumping em in till the planet is on fire. You can expect that everything's extinct by now, but keep on pumping just to be sure.
After the planet is covered with burning magma, cool it down and you've got yourself a barren world lol.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Ultramarine on May 31, 2008, 03:44:11 pm
Oh, I know all too well that you can terraform a planet with life on it.

I was saying that it would be kind of pointless for just about every planet in a solar system had life while rarely seeing any barren lifeless ones to mold to your liking.

I say that's at least 40% of the games purpose once you hit space phase.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: xirtap on May 31, 2008, 03:46:49 pm
Yeah, finding life on every planet would take away the point of terraforming and crafting your own there for making life.

That's been my mission when I get the game, craft a dead lifeless planet into a bountiful beautiful world of your own.

That's still possible while the planet has life on it.
Pump gasses in it, keep pumping em in till the planet is on fire. You can expect that everything's extinct by now, but keep on pumping just to be sure.
After the planet is covered with burning magma, cool it down and you've got yourself a barren world lol.

I've been thinking about this. Will every living creature be able to live in the same conditions or will some require a higher level of a certain gas. I'd like the idea of terraforming a planet with living creatures on them to suit my needs, but will kill them. I guess it's pretty far-fetched, but it would also be pretty cool.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: DarkDragon on May 31, 2008, 03:47:23 pm
My calculations assume you take 20 minutes to explore each of them and do something there, of course when you get to a new solar system you find like 5 planets but you still have to check them out.

It's pretty foolish to assume something about a game we've never even played. For all you know it could take 5 minutes to check out a planet.

I'm just gonna let this pass since the last time you said I shouldn't assume anything about anything else it went the wrong way. People make assumptions, it's human nature so live with it, I'm not saying it will be like that but I'm pretty sure most people wont spend their time just flying around looking at planets. Also, to contradict my assumptions you have to assume something yourself.

It seems that you got my post wrong, I wasn't saying it will take 20 minutes to check out every planet, I'm saying that for it to take 70 years to check out 2 million planets, each planet would require you to spend 20 minutes on it (that if you took no time at all to find the next planet). We all know most people will either look at a planet in less than 1 minute and decide if they stick with it or move on, now I'd appreciate you stop nit picking all of my posts.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Ultramarine on May 31, 2008, 03:50:30 pm
Yeah, finding life on every planet would take away the point of terraforming and crafting your own there for making life.

That's been my mission when I get the game, craft a dead lifeless planet into a bountiful beautiful world of your own.

That's still possible while the planet has life on it.
Pump gasses in it, keep pumping em in till the planet is on fire. You can expect that everything's extinct by now, but keep on pumping just to be sure.
After the planet is covered with burning magma, cool it down and you've got yourself a barren world lol.

I've been thinking about this. Will every living creature be able to live in the same conditions or will some require a higher level of a certain gas. I'd like the idea of terraforming a planet with living creatures on them to suit my needs, but will kill them. I guess it's pretty far-fetched, but it would also be pretty cool.

If you watch the GDC 2005 vid they drop a creature onto a planet without air.
Change the creatures planets biosphere too much and the species dies, worst yet the planet becomes life less.
And you can't have a planet that suites there need but kills them in the end, that defeats all logic.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: DarkDragon on May 31, 2008, 03:53:33 pm
You can always become a traitor and raise the temperature in your own planet to the point where everything burns to death :P
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Holiace on May 31, 2008, 03:57:36 pm
You can always become a traitor and raise the temperature in your own planet to the point where everything burns to death :P
I sure will :P I'll take my UFO and ruin the planet XD
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Bona Fide Supraman on May 31, 2008, 04:19:03 pm
Yeah, finding life on every planet would take away the point of terraforming and crafting your own there for making life.

That's been my mission when I get the game, craft a dead lifeless planet into a bountiful beautiful world of your own.

That's still possible while the planet has life on it.
Pump gasses in it, keep pumping em in till the planet is on fire. You can expect that everything's extinct by now, but keep on pumping just to be sure.
After the planet is covered with burning magma, cool it down and you've got yourself a barren world lol.

I've been thinking about this. Will every living creature be able to live in the same conditions or will some require a higher level of a certain gas. I'd like the idea of terraforming a planet with living creatures on them to suit my needs, but will kill them. I guess it's pretty far-fetched, but it would also be pretty cool.

If you watch the GDC 2005 vid they drop a creature onto a planet without air.
Change the creatures planets biosphere too much and the species dies, worst yet the planet becomes life less.
And you can't have a planet that suites there need but kills them in the end, that defeats all logic.


Yeh, that was totally without an atmosphere. So it exploded. As any creature would have.

I would to see it that different creatures required different atmospheres, but that would mean they wouldn't be able to interact, so I can't see it happening.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: xirtap on May 31, 2008, 04:28:28 pm
My calculations assume you take 20 minutes to explore each of them and do something there, of course when you get to a new solar system you find like 5 planets but you still have to check them out.

It's pretty foolish to assume something about a game we've never even played. For all you know it could take 5 minutes to check out a planet.

I'm just gonna let this pass since the last time you said I shouldn't assume anything about anything else it went the wrong way. People make assumptions, it's human nature so live with it, I'm not saying it will be like that but I'm pretty sure most people wont spend their time just flying around looking at planets. Also, to contradict my assumptions you have to assume something yourself.

It seems that you got my post wrong, I wasn't saying it will take 20 minutes to check out every planet, I'm saying that for it to take 70 years to check out 2 million planets, each planet would require you to spend 20 minutes on it (that if you took no time at all to find the next planet). We all know most people will either look at a planet in less than 1 minute and decide if they stick with it or move on, now I'd appreciate you stop nit picking all of my posts.

I guess I wouldn't nitpick as much if you knew basic arithmetic before assuming whatever you assume.

2 million planets over 70 years leaves 28571 planets to explore per year, that makes 78 planets a day, 3 planets an hour which makes it 1 planet every 20 minutes.

1 planet per 20 minutes.
1 hour = 60 minutes.
60/20 = 3. That's 3 planets an hour.
3 * 24 = 72. That's 72 planets in one day.
72 * 7 = 504. 504 planets in a week.
504 * 4 = 2016. 2016 planets a month.
2016 * 12 = 24 192. 24 192 planets per year.
This would result in 82.6 years in order to visit 2 million planets.
By your calculations it would take ~17 minutes per planet in order for it to take 70 years.

This is all assuming(Which is a ridiculous thing to do) there even is 2 million planets.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Holiace on May 31, 2008, 04:41:45 pm
Just saying, noone will ever see all planets!
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Bona Fide Supraman on May 31, 2008, 04:44:34 pm
It's doubtful.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: KL0k on May 31, 2008, 04:46:06 pm
My calculations assume you take 20 minutes to explore each of them and do something there, of course when you get to a new solar system you find like 5 planets but you still have to check them out.

It's pretty foolish to assume something about a game we've never even played. For all you know it could take 5 minutes to check out a planet.

I'm just gonna let this pass since the last time you said I shouldn't assume anything about anything else it went the wrong way. People make assumptions, it's human nature so live with it, I'm not saying it will be like that but I'm pretty sure most people wont spend their time just flying around looking at planets. Also, to contradict my assumptions you have to assume something yourself.

It seems that you got my post wrong, I wasn't saying it will take 20 minutes to check out every planet, I'm saying that for it to take 70 years to check out 2 million planets, each planet would require you to spend 20 minutes on it (that if you took no time at all to find the next planet). We all know most people will either look at a planet in less than 1 minute and decide if they stick with it or move on, now I'd appreciate you stop nit picking all of my posts.

I guess I wouldn't nitpick as much if you knew basic arithmetic before assuming whatever you assume.

2 million planets over 70 years leaves 28571 planets to explore per year, that makes 78 planets a day, 3 planets an hour which makes it 1 planet every 20 minutes.

1 planet per 20 minutes.
1 hour = 60 minutes.
60/20 = 3. That's 3 planets an hour.
3 * 24 = 72. That's 72 planets in one day.
72 * 7 = 504. 504 planets in a week.
504 * 4 = 2016. 2016 planets a month.
2016 * 12 = 24 192. 24 192 planets per year.
This would result in 82.6 years in order to visit 2 million planets.
By your calculations it would take ~17 minutes per planet in order for it to take 70 years.

This is all assuming(Which is a ridiculous thing to do) there even is 2 million planets.

you forgot something, or dont you need sleep n food n all that stuff?
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Ultramarine on May 31, 2008, 04:53:07 pm
Just saying, noone will ever see all planets!

Unless you are immortal >:D
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Bona Fide Supraman on May 31, 2008, 04:55:51 pm
you forgot something, or dont you need sleep n food n all that stuff?

No, the Will Wright quote was "If you played for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week." Or something like that.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: DarkDragon on May 31, 2008, 05:41:26 pm
My calculations assume you take 20 minutes to explore each of them and do something there, of course when you get to a new solar system you find like 5 planets but you still have to check them out.

It's pretty foolish to assume something about a game we've never even played. For all you know it could take 5 minutes to check out a planet.

I'm just gonna let this pass since the last time you said I shouldn't assume anything about anything else it went the wrong way. People make assumptions, it's human nature so live with it, I'm not saying it will be like that but I'm pretty sure most people wont spend their time just flying around looking at planets. Also, to contradict my assumptions you have to assume something yourself.

It seems that you got my post wrong, I wasn't saying it will take 20 minutes to check out every planet, I'm saying that for it to take 70 years to check out 2 million planets, each planet would require you to spend 20 minutes on it (that if you took no time at all to find the next planet). We all know most people will either look at a planet in less than 1 minute and decide if they stick with it or move on, now I'd appreciate you stop nit picking all of my posts.

I guess I wouldn't nitpick as much if you knew basic arithmetic before assuming whatever you assume.

2 million planets over 70 years leaves 28571 planets to explore per year, that makes 78 planets a day, 3 planets an hour which makes it 1 planet every 20 minutes.

1 planet per 20 minutes.
1 hour = 60 minutes.
60/20 = 3. That's 3 planets an hour.
3 * 24 = 72. That's 72 planets in one day.
72 * 7 = 504. 504 planets in a week.
504 * 4 = 2016. 2016 planets a month.
2016 * 12 = 24 192. 24 192 planets per year.
This would result in 82.6 years in order to visit 2 million planets.
By your calculations it would take ~17 minutes per planet in order for it to take 70 years.

This is all assuming(Which is a ridiculous thing to do) there even is 2 million planets.

Oh, I'm sorry I forgot to mention I rounded the numbers since there is no such thing as 1.0871928680147858230050010871929 planets and so on ;) [/sarcasm]

2,000,000/70 = 28571.428571428571428571428571429 -> round(28571.428571428571428571428571429) = 28571 as a whole number.
28571/365 = 78.276712328767123287671232876712 -> round(78.276712328767123287671232876712) = 78
78/24 = 3.25 -> round(3.25) = 3
that makes 3 planets an hour therefore 1 each 20 minutes.

But if you want me to make perfect calculations of non-existent planets here it goes:
1.0871928680147858230050010871929 planets each 20 minutes

And I'm not assuming there are 2 million planets, that's the last figure we got from a trustworthy source so get your facts right.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Holiace on May 31, 2008, 06:06:13 pm
So, anyone wants to do a Sporathon (Spore marathon)?
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Jennifer Reitz on May 31, 2008, 06:20:23 pm
Regardless of all the planets... I wonder if everyone will have the same galaxy, and if there are valid coordinates.

For instance, one way they could have done things is that the starting planet, the player homeworld, is always located in the same place, even if the world itself is unique. Then as content is pollinated from a central server, the galaxy fills up on a first come-first served basis, according to some rule set. If they did Spore this way, and provided universal coordinates, then it would be possible for a player to tell other players that the 'super cool planet filled with awesomness' is at galactic coordinates 'X by Y by Z' and anyone would be able to seek it out and visit it.

This, would be pretty cool. But it might be hard to do.

However, I personally think it is far more likely that each player will be playing in their own, unique galaxy, with pollinated content tossed in ad-hoc, as they travel. If this is the case, only a handful of Maxis 'set-piece' worlds would be capable of being charted, with all other worlds being effectively random, unique to the given player. You might find a world of Awesome Awesomeness, but nobody else would ever be able to find it too, because it only exists uniquely to them. Everyone would have to find their own wonders.

We know that one set-piece exists for sure, the center of the galaxy. We have had a rumor that Earth's system, the Sol star system, exists in the game, hopefully it is not what is waiting at the center of the galaxy, that would be cheap (I think). I'd rather it was where it should be in the galaxy, but then... if it was, how would one find it, precisely, among 200,000 + stars? Possibly a quest, given through clues and guides and directions, would be one way.

I also, dearly hope, that they put something on the edge of the Galaxy. Some reason to go out that way. I guess we'll see.

I have a prediction for what will be done with earth, if it is truly in the game. I think it will not be earth in our time. My prediction is that it will be either a far past or far future earth, in either case an earth-without-Man, and if it is future earth without Man, I think that any robot race (if that rumor is true) will have been the human legacy. That is what I would do, anyway.

 
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: xirtap on June 01, 2008, 05:35:50 am
Oh, I'm sorry I forgot to mention I rounded the numbers since there is no such thing as 1.0871928680147858230050010871929 planets and so on ;) [/sarcasm]

2,000,000/70 = 28571.428571428571428571428571429 -> round(28571.428571428571428571428571429) = 28571 as a whole number.
28571/365 = 78.276712328767123287671232876712 -> round(78.276712328767123287671232876712) = 78
78/24 = 3.25 -> round(3.25) = 3
that makes 3 planets an hour therefore 1 each 20 minutes.

But if you want me to make perfect calculations of non-existent planets here it goes:
1.0871928680147858230050010871929 planets each 20 minutes

And I'm not assuming there are 2 million planets, that's the last figure we got from a trustworthy source so get your facts right.

Your math is really flawed. I already showed you that you were wrong by 12.6 years(The wonders of rounding numbers). You shouldn't try to divide on the amount of days in a year, not that you managed to do that right(It's not 365 days in a year, it's more like 365.242 etc..).

If you want I can show you that in order to visit 2 million planets in 70 years you would need to spend 16.9344 minutes on each planet. I decided to not include it in this post because I'm pretty sure most people are tired of this argument and probably don't want to watch more math.

Also, I didn't know that it was confirmed to be over 2 million planets. That's neat.

Regardless of all the planets... I wonder if everyone will have the same galaxy, and if there are valid coordinates.

For instance, one way they could have done things is that the starting planet, the player homeworld, is always located in the same place, even if the world itself is unique. Then as content is pollinated from a central server, the galaxy fills up on a first come-first served basis, according to some rule set. If they did Spore this way, and provided universal coordinates, then it would be possible for a player to tell other players that the 'super cool planet filled with awesomness' is at galactic coordinates 'X by Y by Z' and anyone would be able to seek it out and visit it.

This, would be pretty cool. But it might be hard to do.

However, I personally think it is far more likely that each player will be playing in their own, unique galaxy, with pollinated content tossed in ad-hoc, as they travel. If this is the case, only a handful of Maxis 'set-piece' worlds would be capable of being charted, with all other worlds being effectively random, unique to the given player. You might find a world of Awesome Awesomeness, but nobody else would ever be able to find it too, because it only exists uniquely to them. Everyone would have to find their own wonders.

We know that one set-piece exists for sure, the center of the galaxy. We have had a rumor that Earth's system, the Sol star system, exists in the game, hopefully it is not what is waiting at the center of the galaxy, that would be cheap (I think). I'd rather it was where it should be in the galaxy, but then... if it was, how would one find it, precisely, among 200,000 + stars? Possibly a quest, given through clues and guides and directions, would be one way.

I also, dearly hope, that they put something on the edge of the Galaxy. Some reason to go out that way. I guess we'll see.

I have a prediction for what will be done with earth, if it is truly in the game. I think it will not be earth in our time. My prediction is that it will be either a far past or far future earth, in either case an earth-without-Man, and if it is future earth without Man, I think that any robot race (if that rumor is true) will have been the human legacy. That is what I would do, anyway.

That would actually be pretty cool. If everyone had their own universe. It would make exploring a lot more personal and exciting. Who knows what kind of combinations you'll find.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Ultramarine on June 01, 2008, 05:56:19 am
If I remember correctly everyone will get there own unique universe.
But I am not entirely sure.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: KL0k on June 01, 2008, 06:17:55 am
if i remember correct, one of the devs said, quoted in my own words: "everyone will get their very own galaxy in a box, but there are some placed that wont change"
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: DarkDragon on June 01, 2008, 07:16:17 am
To end this discussion here it goes:

Every 4 years you have 366 days instead of 365 (leap year)
70 / 4 = 17.5 leap years
70 - 17.5 = 52.5 common years
17.5 x 366 + 52.5 x 365 = 6405 + 19162,5 = 25567.5 days
2,000,000 / 25567.5 = 78.224308203774322870832111078518 planets each day
78.224308203774322870832111078518 / 24 = 3.2593461751572634529513379616049 planets each hour
3.2593461751572634529513379616049 / 3 = 1.086448725052421150983779320535 planets each 20 minutes
20 / 1.086448725052421150983779320535 = 18.408599999999999999999999999999 minutes for each planet (exactly 1 planet)

That's about as far off of 16.9344 as it is of 20.

20 - 18.408599999999999999999999999999 = 1.59140000000000000000000000001
18.408599999999999999999999999999 - 16.9344 = 1.47419999999999999999999999999

So, yeah... we were both wrong:
Quote from: Malt
DISCUSSION OVER
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Absinth on June 01, 2008, 10:45:32 am
It doesn't matter who's right, one thing is certain, nobody will ever be able to visit every planet. ;)
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: aligon on June 01, 2008, 12:57:09 pm
Yes, everyone will have their own unique galaxy (except maybe for a few easter eggs and/or the center of the galaxy). There are probably going to be more player-created/player-populated planets on the online database than there are going to be planets in the game, so it makes sense to have each player in their own customized universe (it would defeat the purpose of much of what the developers have been talking about -for example, content sharing, and procedural generation- to have each player in the exact same game-world.)
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: 0goober0 on June 01, 2008, 02:38:53 pm
I think since that there's gonna be more planets than i can possible visit anyway there may as well be enough to fill up the whole galaxy and look good instead of only 3/4 full but still more than is possible to visit

and just because that was one of the dumbest arguments i've ever seen: (small because it's off topic)
To end this discussion here it goes:

Every 4 years you have 366 days instead of 365 (leap year)
70 / 4 = 17.5 leap years
70 - 17.5 = 52.5 common years
17.5 x 366 + 52.5 x 365 = 6405 + 19162,5 = 25567.5 days
2,000,000 / 25567.5 = 78.224308203774322870832111078518 planets each day
78.224308203774322870832111078518 / 24 = 3.2593461751572634529513379616049 planets each hour
3.2593461751572634529513379616049 / 3 = 1.086448725052421150983779320535 planets each 20 minutes
20 / 1.086448725052421150983779320535 = 18.408599999999999999999999999999 minutes for each planet (exactly 1 planet)

That's about as far off of 16.9344 as it is of 20.

20 - 18.408599999999999999999999999999 = 1.59140000000000000000000000001
18.408599999999999999999999999999 - 16.9344 = 1.47419999999999999999999999999

So, yeah... we were both wrong:
Quote from: Malt
DISCUSSION OVER
according to here:
http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast161/Unit4/movearth.html
it takes 365.2422 days for the earth to complete one orbit around the sun.

70 * 365.2422 = 25566.954 days in 70 years
2,000,000 / 25566.954 = 78.225978738022527048001103299204 planets each day
78.225978738022527048001103299204 / 24 = 3.2594157807509386270000459708 planets per hour
60 / 3.2594157807509386270000459708 = 18.408206880000000000000000000001 minutes per planet.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Ultramarine on June 01, 2008, 02:42:22 pm
Ugh, it's over don't bring it back up again :P.

Again I say, does anyone think the Spore team will simulate all the main types of stars in the stellar classification graphs? You think they will give you an over view of the main elements consisting with in the star via Sporepedia? (Example methane stars for one)
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: 0goober0 on June 01, 2008, 02:48:30 pm
Ugh, it's over don't bring it back up again :P.


Again I say, does anyone think the Spore team will simulate all the main types of stars in the stellar classification graphs? You think they will give you an over view of the main elements consisting with in the star via Sporepedia? )Example methane stars for one)
I think there will probably be different types of stars in the game. What do you mean by an overview? Like tell you when you click on a star what it's made of? I think that it's possible there will be a very simplified version of that with just very very basic characteristics of different interstellar objects.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Holiace on June 01, 2008, 02:50:21 pm
Does anyone know where we will start?

Will it be the same planet in the same place or different for everyone?
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Ultramarine on June 01, 2008, 02:51:31 pm
How exactly do you mean "start"?

When you begin actual gameplay?
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Holiace on June 01, 2008, 03:06:30 pm
How exactly do you mean "start"?

When you begin actual gameplay?

The planet you start out on, at the creature stage.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Ultramarine on June 01, 2008, 03:12:29 pm
From what I remember you have a choice where to start out in from the galaxy view aka the main menu.

(http://www.xspore.com/content/screenshots/16_835.jpg)
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Holiace on June 01, 2008, 03:14:25 pm
From what I remember you have a choice where to start out in from the galaxy view aka the main menu.



I've never seen that video, ever... Weird.. Thx though =)
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: 0goober0 on June 01, 2008, 03:15:02 pm
From what I remember you have a choice where to start out in from the galaxy view aka the main menu.



I've never seen that video, ever... Weird.. Thx though =)
me neither, where'd you get that picture?
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Ultramarine on June 01, 2008, 03:15:59 pm
I saw a glimpse of it some where before, the vid that is but the screen shot is from Xspore.com.
So they might have the video there as well as here (if I can friggin find it), and you're welcome ;).

And it's k if you guys didn't see the vid, not a lot of people did.
I myself am suprised I watched some of it at all o.O
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Lippy on June 01, 2008, 06:08:12 pm
Will it be the same planet in the same place or different for everyone?

I believe you choose.  And it will be different each time.  The planet the comet lands on in the current science video shows a planet different from the one the comet landed on in the German preview video. 
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Hydromancerx on June 01, 2008, 06:49:56 pm
(http://www.xspore.com/content/screenshots/16_835.jpg)

So it looks like step 1 is picking your stage. Then step 2 is picking your planet. Step 3 to pick your "Sporecast Theme". And lastly i bet is picking your race from "Sporepedia".

EDIT: No wait looks like planet and stage are in step 1. I wonder what step 3 and 4 are then. Do you think its pick your buildings/vehicle themes?
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: KL0k on June 01, 2008, 06:58:44 pm
maybe the option to how to polinate the planet? or difficulty?
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: google_video_fan on June 01, 2008, 07:09:59 pm
Fascinating screenshot.

I wonder how they define "Earthly creatures". Does that mean we'll have to categorize our creatures?

Also, I imagine you can only choose your Planet's terrain, as choosing an exact planet would totally take away from re-playability and the sense of discovery.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: DarkDragon on June 01, 2008, 07:39:42 pm
It could be that you can pick any planet and something like the genesis device is used on it to make it playable there.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: aligon on June 01, 2008, 09:15:14 pm
I think that image doesn't represent the very first time you start the game as a lowly cell creature. But rather once you've played the game a bit and want to simply start on a highly customized planet. The SporeCast section is probably just where you pick a SporeCast that you are already subscribed to (or have favorited or something), to populate your planet with.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: SporeGames on June 02, 2008, 04:41:39 am
500,000 stars, much less 2 million, is as close to infinity as makes no difference in terms of the actual experience of any one player. Can any person ever visit them all, within a human lifespan, much less the short lifespan of a game, or even a given model of computer (before it needs replacement or upgrading)? No. There will always be more out there than any player can ever hope to even glimpse.

One could rush through Spore's space stage, flitting from planet to planet as fast as possible, and still only see but the tiniest fraction of the game, and in the process miss all the small details that make up, say, one single world.

Even if a planet has but 16 unique life forms on it, the combinations of ways in which they can interact, fight, form alliances, avoid each other, chase each other, eat or help or harm each other could provide endless hours of natural science fun. I fully expect to see YouTube nature documentaries about the ecologies of these alien worlds, and some of them might even be funny or interesting. Flitting about means missing all the details.

On the other hand, one could concentrate on only the near region of space and spend hundreds of hours just exploring a handful of worlds to truly get the feeling of them, and of how things live and die on them. Since it has been confirmed that it will be possible to leave the UFO and go on walkabout, the kinds of adventures open up dramatically. Imagine surveying a planet on foot, trying to catalog every life form, or sneak into an alien city without causing a panic, or even playing 'predator' and hunting the most dangerous species one can find.

Faced with such sheer enormity, virtual infinitude, it is interesting - I think - to consider all the play of the game overall. Each player will have their own literally unique experience of Spore. Each will draw their own unique hypothetical line through the galaxy, as they move about from star to star. Some will head straight as possible for the center of the galaxy where something unknown waits, but miss all the wonders of the edge (is there anything just outside that edge? That's a question, isn't it?). Others will trace a wandering path around their homeworld, as they gradually spiral outward, trying to gain a feel for their local region of the galaxy. Still other players may  elect to concentrate on skipping everything but advanced technological worlds, forming alliances to the end of amassing an armada, and claiming an empire. Or perhaps, some will eschew all living worlds, to seek the hope of finding the rumored 'robot' race components, supposedly only to be found on barren, dead worlds.

It is possible that no two people will entirely feel as if they are talking about the same game, in some ways. That, I think, is utterly fascinating.

Of course, Spore has some sharp limitations. Eventually, all of the forms of attack, defense, and behavior of creatures will become a blur, easily generalized into expected action. There is a clear limit to the amount of difference that is possible in the game. Then again, considering the sheer power of the editors, and the determination of some players, it may remain entrancing just to see what somebody has managed to come up with. One could set a personal goal, such as 'collecting' observations of things based on famous or obscure science fiction and fantasy inventions, seeking those things out preferentially, to see what can be done.

It would be literally impossible to conquer the entire galaxy, or to kill all life within it. The game universe is just too large - unless there are weapons of hyper-destruction in the game, capable of blasting entire cubic parsecs at a time. I doubt that. But I would imagine that there could be bragging rights in trying to make the biggest empire with the most species joined, or to kill off the largest region or somesuch.

I think it is going to be an interesting choice, just how to play Spore. To explore in detail, or to rush through, or to seek out rarity, or some combination of these things. I expect players will probably alternate between these behaviors, over time, as they grow bored with one path, and try another in turn.

Wouldn't it be interesting if one day we see two players comparing notes, and neither can easily relate to the other because their paths were so different? If that ever happens, I will be very, very impressed with Spore. 

:O. Will you marry me? j/k
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: MTCason on June 02, 2008, 05:30:19 am
Considering there are 20,000,000,000,000,000,000,000* stars in the universe, I think 500,000 is a perfectly reasonable sample size.  The very idea of the latter being represented in a computer game, frankly, boggles my mind.  The former is unthinkable

(*according to David Grinspoon, Lonely Planets)
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Lippy on July 03, 2008, 08:18:14 pm
Semi-necro bump.   ;D

I was reminded of a game I played at a friend's house about 13 years ago.   I had totally forgotten about it.  Elite 2: Frontier.  I did a quick search in these forums and found this game mentioned a few times in 2006. 

It was a space game with "realistic" space physics and open ended gameplay.  It had about 100,000,000,000 stars!  And I was impressed with 2 million.  :D each with their own procedurally generated planets/moons/spacestations, etc.  You could see moons (or planets) in the sky.  Night day cycle with accurate stars.   I did a search for it and it's available as shareware.  Yay! http://www.eliteclub.co.uk/download/ (http://www.eliteclub.co.uk/download/)  You have the ability to zoom in/out of a galaxy view, sector view, and system view. 

Just something to play around with if you were interested.   Perhaps it should be listed in the free PC game list.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Ondaderthad on July 03, 2008, 10:23:48 pm
Semi-necro bump.   ;D

I was reminded of a game I played at a friend's house about 13 years ago.   I had totally forgotten about it.  Elite 2: Frontier.  I did a quick search in these forums and found this game mentioned a few times in 2006. 

It was a space game with "realistic" space physics and open ended gameplay.  It had about 100,000,000,000 stars!  And I was impressed with 2 million.  :D each with their own procedurally generated planets/moons/spacestations, etc.  You could see moons (or planets) in the sky.  Night day cycle with accurate stars.   I did a search for it and it's available as shareware.  Yay! http://www.eliteclub.co.uk/download/ (http://www.eliteclub.co.uk/download/)  You have the ability to zoom in/out of a galaxy view, sector view, and system view. 

Just something to play around with if you were interested.   Perhaps it should be listed in the free PC game list.

Elite was the FIRST proper video game I ever played. (excluding some BASICA programs i was typing in my first home-built system)

The Elite game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_%28video_game%29) on the 8bit computers had 8 galaxies of 256 planets each.

But...

Since there is no memory overhead for creating extra worlds, the game was originally intended to contain approximately 281 trillion galaxies. The number was limited to eight when Acornsoft noted that such a gigantic number would make the artificiality of the game universe evident to the player.

Elite was one of the first game using procedurally generated content. (8 bits make 256 seed numbers) Remember that those old machines had less memory than your average Cell Phone.

Anybody old enough to remember the Trumbles?
They were Spore-like creature that you could buy from a trader and after a while they started breeding and climbing up the HUD until you had millions of them filling up your cargo space (and completely obscuring your vision)
The only way to get rid of them was to dive towards the sun (without blowing yourself up) until they all burnt up.

Those were the days...

Elite also invented the 3D minimap display at the bottom of the screen.

Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Doomsday on July 03, 2008, 10:31:54 pm
Anybody old enough to remember the Trumbles?
They were Spore-like creature that you could buy from a trader and after a while they started breeding and climbing up the HUD until you had millions of them filling up your cargo space (and completely obscuring your vision)
The only way to get rid of them was to dive towards the sun (without blowing yourself up) until they all burnt up.

Tribbles?
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: DaMuncha on July 03, 2008, 10:35:38 pm
I think they were in Star Trek on one of the ollllllld eps
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: Ondaderthad on July 03, 2008, 10:51:07 pm
I think they were in Star Trek on one of the ollllllld eps

Star Trek episode in 1967.
Elite game in 1984.

Sorry about the spelling mistake but after 24 years my memory is fading a bit.
Title: Re: 500,000 Stars
Post by: darkwanderer on July 04, 2008, 12:45:35 am
noctis contains a massive amount of visitable stars and planets