Gaming Steve

October 20, 2005

World of Warcraft Expansion - Extensive Details?

WOW Blood ElfPerhaps the only thing we know for a fact is that in ten days at BlizzCon the new World of Warcraft expansion will be released. But until then let the speculation/guessing begin!

Perhaps the most interesting tidbit just came from the site WOWGuru where someone posted an extremely detailed overview of the WOW expansion plan. Who knows if this is accurate or total bullcrap, but it "seems" to be legit.

What I do know is that the expansion will be massive and not just a simple content update and according the post the expansion will be massive and include two new races, a new class, a higher level-cap, new transportation methods, a huge number of new instances and locations and more. Hence, I believe this post to be pretty close to the "real deal". Or it's the work of a very imaginative (and creative) poster, what do you think?

The original post is quite long, here are the highlights (even the highlights are long!):

Expansion Name: The "Burning Crusade"

Max Level Increased
The max level players may now reach has been increased to 75, and many new max-level raid instances have been added to the game world (Note, other sites are reporting the new level-cap to be 70 but I believe 75 to be the correct level-cap).

New Horde Race: Blood Elves
Racial Trait: Demonic Corruption - Blood Elves begin the game with +10 resistances to all types of magic. In addition, all of their resistances to magical spells and effects, excluding Nature, are increased by 8%. Available Classes: Warrior, Rogue, Mage, Priest, Warlock, Spell Breaker.

New Alliance Race: Draenei
Racial Trait: Unseen - Once every ten minutes, the Draenei may go invisible for fifteen seconds. This effect may not be canceled, and the Draenei cannot attack or cast any spells, and they are also considered to be "in combat" for the entire time of this effect. Available Classes: Warrior, Rogue, Hunter, Spell Breaker.

New Class: Spell Breaker
Spell Breaker - Among the Blood Elves, there are those who show such an amazing aptitude for magic that they can become almost immune to it's effects and can even twist the spells of others to benefit themselves. Spell Breakers begin the game with leather armor but are able to use mail once they reach level forty.


This is a level 60-65 zone, and is now the main hub of neutral transportation.

With the aid of the Horde and Argent Dawn, the Blood Elves drove some of the remaining Scourge out of Quel'thalas. The Blood Elves have started to rebuild their cities, and have unexpectedly found that some cities were untouched.

The new starting area for Gnomes. Gnomeregan can take the player to about level 12 after which they have to go to other areas.

The New Echo Islands
The new starting area for Trolls. These islands can take the player to about level 12 after which they have to go to other areas.

The Horde and Alliance are now able to reach the continent of Northerend, thanks to the aid of the Goblins of Undermine. A zeppelin will take the players to the town of Valgarde in Northerend, where they will begin many quests to oppose the Scourge. Northerend is a massive level 65-75 zone, and contains many new max-level instances.

The Emerald Dream
The Emerald Dream is the primal heart of Azeroth. It is an echo of what the world would be like if intelligent beings had not altered its surface. The ethereal layer of the Emerald Dream shares the same space of the Physical layer one on top of the other - a parallel realm overlapping the physical world like an invisible and intangible layer. The Emerald Dream is a level 70-75 zone which will have players attempt to cleanse the Emerald Dream of the Nightmare - and, if the rumors that are told are true, Archimonde will once again need to be defeated by mortals...

All boats from neutral cities, such as Ratchet, and Booty Bay now connect to Undermine. New boats have been added to Steamwheedle Port, Menethil Harbor, and Theramore which will take anyone on it to Undermine. In addition, there is a new zeppelin which will take the player to Undermine. There is also a zeppelin on Undermine which will take the player to the shores of Northerend, to a town called Valgarde. All goblin-owned transportations now have at least four level 62 Undermine Bruisers on them. Alliance-owned and Horde-owned transportation now force any members of the opposite faction on them into PVP, and are also now guarded by at least four level 60 guards.


Naxxaramas Necropolis
Within Stratholme, near the Slaughterhouse of Baron Rivendare, is the Naxxaramas Necropolis. Kel'Thuzad reigns the Undead Scourge from the Naxxramas Necropolis. This new 40-player, level sixty raid instance is equal in difficulty to Blackwing Lair, and will send the player to assault the Tower of Medivh.

The Tower of Medivh
This tower was described by Medivh as an Hourglass. As the sand particles flow slowly through the hourglass clock, time flows in different places of the glass, allowing one to see the past - and future - of Azeroth. This is a 40-player max-level raid instance, much more difficult than Naxxaramas Necropolis.

Caverns of Time
This is the lair of Nozdormu, one of the five great dragon aspects. Nozdormu, unlike most other dragons in the game, requires the aid of mortals. To repair damage done to the timeline, Nozdormu will send players on large raids into two 40-player, level sixty raid instances, and one 40-player max-level raid instance, the first two being equal in difficulty to Naxxaramas Necropolis, and the final being equal in difficulty to The Tower of Medivh.

The desolate place of Outland emits flashes of light and streams of energy. Outland is currently a way station. Many portals are still active within some of the floating asteroids, leading to other worlds. This new zone is for groups of five or more max level players. Among the creatures that inhabit Outland are Felboars, Phase spiders, Draeni, Fire Elementals, Fungal Horrors, Succubi, Nether Dragons(composed of nether energy, and not related to real dragons).

The Black Citadel
Beneath the Black Citadel, there is a very large prison. Rumors have been created that heroes from past wars are still being held within this prison, and that even now the ruler of the Black Citadel tortures these heroes. Other rumors are that Kil'jaeden, the most powerful entity of the Burning Legion, dwells withing this Citadel, plotting the destruction of Azeroth. This is a large, 50-player raid instance.

Grim Botal
Rumors have emerged that Alexstrasza and her dragonflight are keeping anyone from getting near Grim Batol. They are protecting something deep within its walls, a secret power. Some say they are protecting a powerful artifact or creature.

Some have gone as far as to speculate that Deathwing has been held captive and imprisoned within Grim Batol, though, others believe in the possibility that the creature that now holds the essence of the Sunwell might be under protection of the Red Dragonflight. Anyone who dares to venture into this max level 50-player raid instance will find themselves standing against the power of the Red Dragonflight, Alexstasza, herself. This is equal in difficulty to The Black Citadel.

The Lair of Malygos
Malygos lives in Northrend in a deep and complex cavern. He is known to gather relics of arcane power, keeping them locked away from mortals. Frozen Orcs, Nagas, Trolls and Wendigos are many of the victims of the horror of Malygos' power, and to display what happens to those who venture into the Lair of Malygos. This is a 50-player max level raid instance, equal in difficulty to Grim Batol.

Icecrown Mountain
Icecrown Mountain is the most difficult instance to ever be in Azeroth, and will challenge anyone to stand against the power of not only the Lich King's armies, and his most trusted lieutenant, Anub'arak, but also the Immortal Lich King himself.

This is a 100-player max level raid instance, and will challenge the Horde and Alliance to work together to defeat the Immortal Lich King. To have the full 100 players, 50 players of max level on Horde and 50 players of max level on Alliance must work together, merging both groups of 50 into one large raid party. Upon Icecrown, Horde and Alliance may not attack each other at any time, but are instead able to aid each other. Leaders of the Argent Dawn have also worked together to teach the Alliance and Horde to understand both, Common and Orcish, so they may communicate as they work together to defeat the Immortal Lich King.

The Eye of Ysera
Deep within the Emerald Dream is the Eye of Ysera. The Eye of Ysera is a large golden dome that randomly appears in the Emerald Dream, and the dome in which Ysera dwells. No one has ever been able to enter or penetrate the golden dome. That is, until the Nightmare came... And once again, if the rumors were true, this is where Archimonde will most likely be...

Posted by Gaming Steve at 02:00 PM | Comments (112) | Posted to MMORPG | PC | Add this story to

Almost seems like a little bit to much with all the high level raid instances.
Will need a huge hardware upgrade to run a 50 man, let alone 100 man raid.

guess we will have to wait and see if this is 100% legit.

Posted by DevilMachine at October 20, 2005 03:56 PM

There are several reasons for so much high-level content. First, the point of the expansion is not to appeal to new players (since they will have much to do to begin with) but to appeal to high-level players who are getting bored with the game. There are lots of players who still love WOW but once they hit level 60 and finished all the raids they didn't have much to do. Hence, they have stopped playing or have "taken a break" from the game. The new high level content will (hopefully) bring them back into the game.

Second, overseas the main activity for all the hardcore players is raiding and group raids. Remember, WOW is a worldwide game and needs to appeal to everyone in the world. Hence, all the new high-level raid content for the large number of guild players worldwide.

Third, the large numbers of players won't be much of a hardware problem. Alterac Valley already handles 80 players no problem. Bumping that up to 100 won't be a major issue.

Finally, Blizzard is fixing up a few things with this expansion that they always wanted to do but didn't have the time to do for the initial release. For example, the starting locations for the Trolls and Gnomes. Since they are added so late to the original game (they were added just months before the release) they never had time to give them "legitimate" starting areas like the other races. Adding these areas will make the game more "complete" and give new players a reason to buy the expansion as well.

Posted by Gaming Steve at October 20, 2005 04:11 PM

I dont think this would be true, specially the 100 man raid instance as there are servers in which such raid would be impossible to organize due the lack of horde players. Besides, if half of that is true, then wow will become just another EQ with some improved graphics.

Posted by Cash_we at October 20, 2005 04:25 PM

Keep in mind that over 3.5 million people play WOW outside of the United States, and in Korea and China getting 100 people together is NOT a problem since everyone plays WOW in public Internet cafes. Perhaps in the US it might be an issue, but not overseas.

Posted by Gaming Steve at October 20, 2005 04:30 PM

I think most of this info is a bunch of BS. There's no way they can raise the level cap w/o screwing up balance even more than it already is. It'd take a huge revamp of the talent trees in order to do that.

Also, the Spell Breaker class sounds like a pipe dream. Introducing something that powerful into the game would totally destroy the dynamics of the game.

Posted by Splut at October 20, 2005 05:46 PM

Definitely sounds like a hoax to me. I have been thinking that Blood Elves and Dranei would be added to the game, but definitely not to the existing factions. What makes even less sense is that Blood Elves and Dranei are Allies! Play through the Frozen Throne, and you will see what I mean. If new races are added, it will be in a new faction, which would probably consist of Blood Elves, Dranei, Naga, and either chaos Orcs or a race of Demons. Having the Blood Elves join the Horde makes little sense, and having Dranei join the Alliance makes absolutely none. The Blood Elves have been corrupted, and they went to outland to feed their addiction to magic, The Horde would not let them in. The Alliance don't even know the Dranei, nor would they likely accept the strange and alien race.

The Instances are probably true. They have all been explored by hacking into the data files, and they have all been known about for a long time. It doesn't take a dev leak to find these out.

Archimonde is not coming back. When Blizzard has you defeat an enemy, they don't bring him back, they bring in a stronger one. After Archimonde was dead, they brought in Kil'Jaedin. They are not going to go back to a weaker demon.

Posted by Jeremy at October 20, 2005 05:59 PM

100% bogus. Confirmed by blizzard Devs.

Posted by Gut at October 20, 2005 06:38 PM

"100% bogus. Confirmed by blizzard Devs." can you give a link ?

Posted by me at October 20, 2005 07:40 PM

well of course they are going to deny it, especially when they have said they wont release any info until Blizzcon.

Posted by DevilMachine at October 20, 2005 09:21 PM

"Leaders of the Argent Dawn have also worked together to teach the Alliance and Horde to understand both, Common and Orcish, so they may communicate as they work together to defeat the Immortal Lich King."

That right there makes me thinks this is a ho-ax. The whole point of making them not able to communicate is so they can't do anything but kill each other. Just doesn't seem to fit in with the style of WoW. I would also think the Bloodelves and Naga would be the next races and on their own side, maybe neutral to both horde and alliance.

Posted by Ameg at October 20, 2005 10:13 PM

Actually in the original design of the game they had it so that the Alliance and Horde could eventually understand each other over time as you built up the skill -- hence the reason that it's a skill in the current game. So eventually you could get up to 300/300 and understand the other side. This was cut from the game late in the development, but they always wanted to put it back into the game at a future date...

And something important to remember is that the Horde is not considered the "bad guys" in the eyes of Blizzard. They are just "another side". The only "true" bad guys are the demons (who were originally a playable race in War III but were also cut).

Posted by Gaming Steve at October 20, 2005 11:25 PM

Sorry Steve, but Bloodelves and Draenei are allies along with the naga. The gnome and troll thing I could understand, if it wasn't for the fact that not everyone will have the expansion. Do these new areas come free? Plus, the languae thing was removed as undead and alliance cussed eachother out quite often, also why 1337 was removed. Sorry, hoax

Posted by Naniah at October 21, 2005 01:37 AM

This is probably bogus; if for no other reason than Blizzard revealed Medivh's tower awhile ago in a magazine article. Kharazan is going to be a five man instance; not a raid.

Posted by UndeadScottsman at October 21, 2005 02:36 AM

er... "Third, the large numbers of players won't be much of a hardware problem. Alterac Valley already handles 80 players no problem. Bumping that up to 100 won't be a major issue."

Not a hardware problem? If you're talking about the WoW servers, sure. But if you're taking about the average player, get real.

Posted by Goldspire at October 21, 2005 03:28 AM

I'd have to say this is bunk, one simple reason, blood elves wouldn't join the horde, they hate all the undead, including the forsaken with about as much passion as the scarlet crusade (interesting possible link there blood and scarlet) and they'd probably rather exterminate them than help them out.

Posted by DevilDude at October 21, 2005 05:17 AM

There's been a hoax like this before, and it's been just as obsessively put together. The only place to see any true updates is on the Blizz forums from the devs themselves. Too many hoaxers on the internet these days.

Posted by ArtMonkey69 at October 21, 2005 05:57 AM

[quote]Perhaps the only thing we know for a fact is that in ten days at BlizzCon the new World of Warcraft expansion will be released. But until then let the speculation/guessing begin![/quote]

It's being *released* it ten days? I heard it was being announced and then released early next year... I'm never going to reach level 60 in time for the expansion now... :(

Posted by Andyk at October 21, 2005 06:25 AM

If you read the lore you will understand that Illidan told the dreanai and the blood elves to ask for help from the horde and alliance respectively, with the intent to bring them down in the end. So they are just allied with each faction to decieve them.

follow the link in steves post to the original post and you shall see ;)

Posted by DevilMachine at October 21, 2005 08:26 AM

So a lot of comments are interesting but people aren't looking at the real reasons for many possible items listed here -- and it all comes down to business. For example, why the Blood Elves? Simple, the Elves are the most popular race in WOW (view census info to see, 23% of all US players play Elves) and the Horde needs additional members to help balance out the game. Blizzard can always rewrite the history of WOW however they want, they freaking own the game! Hence, the Blood Elves were chosen for strategic reasons, to increase the number of players on the side of the Horde. History will be rewritten to explain the Blood Elves joining the Horde.

As for the hardware requirements, the expansion isn't planned to come out until May 2006, if not later (sorry for the slightly misleading information above). Hardware speeds double in speed approximately every 18 months while the software client is pretty much staying the same. Hence Blizzard will continue to add more complex content to the game over time.

Finally, keep in mind the real audience for this game, and it's not the US. Some of the new content is for the US but considering that they only make up around 23% of the world WOW playing population we are not the goal of many of these items. Overseas the main MMORPG activities are high level raiding in massive groups. Hence, more and more of this type of content will be added to keep the large majority of the WOW playing, and paying, population happy.

It will be interesting to see what happens in a few days!

Posted by Gaming Steve at October 21, 2005 09:25 AM

omg, ur all liars this is all true y u lie?
Seriously, though, this is obvious forgery. It has mistakes with existing lore, that are detailed in the actual forum post. Not that I actually gave them more than a brief glance, but I'm calling attention to them all the same.
But cutting out Gnomeregan as an instance? Ouch, that'd hurt. It's one of my favourites, especially because of the silly hat Thermaplugg drops every now and then. I, for one, would like to see a new Neutral side that somehow includes goblins. They could speak both Common and Orcish, and maybe act as mediators. I certainly enjoyed acting as one for some RP Undead who didn't speak Orcish and just cussed out the savages. Good fun.
Still, all we can do is wait and salivate. Then we riot.


Posted by Haddeen Sol at October 21, 2005 09:35 AM

I get the feeling that Gaming Steve is just trying to play the Devil's Advocate here...

Posted by Jeremy at October 21, 2005 03:37 PM

Elves are the most ridiculous race ever. I'm absolutely sick of seeing them plastered on every game.

Posted by Kagan at October 21, 2005 04:00 PM

check out these hi-res images of the blood elves, their homeland, and some images of what might be one of the new instances.

Posted by Devilmachine at October 21, 2005 06:13 PM

This was posted by the same guy who posted the elaborate 1.8 patch note hoax. Spy bot.

Following his track record, I doubt it is real.

Posted by Jeremy at October 21, 2005 08:24 PM


Posted by Scrooglez at October 21, 2005 10:17 PM

All of this is complete and total bullshat. Let me begin:

-First of all, many many contradictions to WC3/FT. The Dreani are loyal to Illiden, you free their race in the campaigne in FT. The blood elves are also loyal to illiden. So why would the dreani be alliance?

-Kel'Thuzad is

-The "Spell Breaker" description is straight out of WC3/FT.

-Countless other sites are saying the level cap is 70 and 75. Again, websites contradicting eachother, and none of it is true. Blizzard announced months ago they're working on "Hero Classes", which is something more you can achieve after level 60. Sorry, it is very very very unlikely they would increase the max level.

-With that said, that makes all these instances and raid dungeons fake as well. 50 and 100 man raids? I'm sorry, Blizzard wouldn't put something into the game that required all 3.5 million of their customers to upgrade their computers.

-Too many new instances at once. Blizzard isn't that stupid. They release instances in patches, 1 or 2 at a time, so their customers have something to aim for and achieve. This many at one time would be catastrophic for the gamers of WoW.

-Can you say lagfest? All this content at once would lag the game to high heaven.

-So many other websites have "leaked WoW Xpac" previews. What makes yours any different? Many sites are showing the "new alliance race" as Pandaran. I'm not saying those other sites are wrong, I'm just saying none of this is any more true than the countless other sites, which are all full of BS as well.

-Amongst all this bullshat, there are a few POSSIBILITIES. New areas such as Quel'Thalas and Grim Batol are already mostly in the current WoW. They're just 'unfinished' and can't be fully accessed.

Posted by Johnbonham at October 21, 2005 11:28 PM

i just hope they add some new lowlevel content aswell im freakin tired of being too low for stuff

Posted by gary wall at October 22, 2005 06:36 AM

I'm tired of being too high and still not having a mount.
*shakes begging cup*

Posted by Haddeen Sol at October 22, 2005 07:03 AM

were did u get tat picture of the bloodelf from?????

Posted by Dymock Dibb at October 22, 2005 09:24 AM

Sorry, guys. It's fake. Communication between Horde and the Alliance? Ahahaaha yeah /right/. Also. The BE's racial trait is utterly broken. ;)

Posted by Ashtear at October 22, 2005 03:05 PM

what makes you all so sure of what you are saying? As gaming steve said.. Blizzard are the gods in this world and they can rewrite future history in any way they want.. The hardware issue is not really an issue.. introducing 20 more into a raid shouldnt be a problem for your computer assuming you can be in AV at this point.. The ability to be able to comunicate between factions is not impossible.. I think Blizzard will be adding this trait to further spice up the game, how will you otherwise be able to handle the Lich King? I'd just say that we wait and see what will happen.. all this could be 100, 80, 50, 20% true.. we dont know... either way... the expansion will be kick ass for sure..
By the way, I am from a leading european server "Stormscale" and I dont know how things look on the US servers but here in Scandinavia at least we look upon this expansion with anticipation...

Posted by DrizzT at October 23, 2005 07:22 PM

We are not debating whether these changes are possible, or even whether or not they will eventually come about. This debate is about the legitimacy of the "leaked" expansion information, which is highly questionable.

Posted by Jeremy at October 23, 2005 07:49 PM

to Ashtear: why couldn´t alliance and horde work together? they did in earlier warcraft games.

Posted by dvärg at October 24, 2005 04:56 PM

This is going to Rock. I am soo looking forward to the blood elves. and New instances. Lvl 75 My warlock will be broken afterwards. This is soo cool and I will be behind blizzard all the way. Any one who does not like this is not a WOW fan

Posted by Cylence. at October 25, 2005 07:29 AM

Whether it is true or not I truly believe that Blizzard needs to do something to keep us LVL 60's entertained. I am not sure about the rest of you but PvP is not going to keep me at the computer everyday, I need some new content. ZG, BWL, and Silithus are good starts but there needs to be more. Curious about that Spellbreaker class sounds pretty weak against a melee player or mob, looking forward to seeing more on this in the near future. Also has there been a confirmed release date or all jsut speculation ATM?

Posted by Anacalimus / Thunderlord at October 25, 2005 12:40 PM

"why couldn´t alliance and horde work together? they did in earlier warcraft games."

dude, the only time that alliance and horde hav ever worked together is in the tail end of TFT THE EXPASION TO WC3. Never b4 had they worked together in WC or WC2.In fact the whole point of WC1+2 was for the horde to completely conquer the alliance or for the alliance to conquer the horde. So, saying that they had worked together in earlier "games" is comletely false.

Posted by stair at October 25, 2005 09:27 PM

If anything I think the blood elves would go to the alliance. THe story could go as follows. After their defeat at the end of frozen throne they realize the errors of their ways and decide to rejoin the alliance because Garathos has been killed. Instead of feeding their addiction for magic with demon powers they seek the holly powers of the light. This could lead to paladins being a class for the blood elves (high elves) which would set them apart from the night elves. I think this could work and makes a nice story. Orges or Panderians would be a nice horde race following the lore from frozen throne.

Posted by Squirrel at October 26, 2005 03:33 AM

For all we know those screen shots I'm sure you've all seen of the blood elves and dreani (sp) will probably just be a new raid or instance. Just like the new one that just came out. Blizzard has a whole faction page for it. I guess we can just wait and see, but its my guess that those screens arn't for a new race just a new enemy we can encounter.

Posted by Sleeper at October 26, 2005 03:45 AM

i think this new expansion is crap, you shouldnt be able to get to 75, it ruins the game.

Posted by Gladewolf at October 26, 2005 12:17 PM

this is fake for only one reason. lack of details on how they plan to balance out the issue of talent points going past 60. there would no way to make this easy, much less add two more races and one more class. i can't see moving the level cap up at all being any 'expansion' thats a whole revamp of the exsisting model.

a hero class, ie: getting to an elite status for players seem a more natural route. maybe adding a special skill or mounts, bonus armor ratings, attacks, etc etc ..things that add, rather than drastically change what they have. that seems more in line with what an expansion stands for.

but i guess my guess is as good as anyones..will wait with baited breath on the announcement

Posted by larry potter at October 27, 2005 05:56 AM

There is no way this can be true... To begin with this would take way too much time and effort and changes in the game to get this up and there is no way Archimonde could come back.....and 100 man raid? You have to be F'in Kidding me! So there is no way that this is going to happen and may I be shot and hung on the side of the world if it ever will.

Posted by Rebbi at October 27, 2005 06:25 PM

First off, Blizzard has rewritten Warcraft lore before. Each new Warcraft game brought something different, new races, new places.

Also, this has been confirmed real by unreleased magazine clippings and actual screenshots.

And horde/alliance communication is very easy to accept, when thinking that IT IS ONLY IN ONE JOINED INSTANCE.

Blood elves on horde side are easy to understand, since face it, Blood elves are already enemy mobs in the game. They obviously don't like horde or alliance - so let's stick them with the horde since the horde need a pretty character.

There is no question in my mind that this expansion is real, though one point remains elusive to me..

Will non-expansion players be updated with the same world updates, and just not have access to the new races and class? Or, will they make new realms for expansion players and not allow them to play together. MOST likely the first.

This is an expansion, not a patch. A lot of new instances and content usually does come with expansions. There is a new level cap, so we need more instances just for that reason alone. It is NOT too many instances to release all at once.

There is not too much added content.
There is not an overbalance of power being given to either faction.
Horde are long overdue for a pretty class.
Spellbreaker seems like a nice class, and I doubt will be too strong against casters. At least not more than Shamans.

But let's wait until blizzcon to see if I'm right or not ;)

Posted by knigitz at October 28, 2005 09:23 AM

Well looks like im going to get shot and hung on the side of the world. says it all, or most of it.
The Burning Legion is back and so is Archimonde (god help us all) and the level cap will be 70 but I still think this is way way way too much even for an expansion but I guess we can only dream for now and in a few months we can see what will happen..

Posted by Rebbi at October 28, 2005 12:37 PM

I'm sorry to say that most of this seems like a fabrication... For example, if you look at the expansion F.A.Q., they state that Caverns of Time will most likely be a portal into new Battlegrounds, as opposed to a 40 man raid instance.

Posted by Jachin at October 28, 2005 05:31 PM

ahh, the funniest thing is how ppl have gone on about 'Ooo, can't be a lvl cap, it'd screw everything up, blood elves can't join horde, just wouldn't work' rofl, well my god are you wrong, please oh please take a look at the news on the WoW site, change your mind anyone? lol, about some of it at least.

Posted by lol at October 29, 2005 08:11 AM

No one cares if you think it's fake


"dude, the only time that alliance and horde hav ever worked together is in the tail end of TFT THE EXPASION TO WC3"

also at the end of WC3, all the races (Except undead) worked together

Posted by Shane at October 30, 2005 01:57 PM

i dont get why people point out one thing that might be untrue, and say taht it all is? people are wrong and right about different things... also, the guy who wrote this didnt say that THIS WAS WHAT WAS HAPPENING.. he said that this was some of his private speculation, but all of u crazy WoW overemotional fanatics go and tear the poor guys thing apart, caaaaalm down -wusaaaah- lol

Posted by Alex at October 30, 2005 07:20 PM


thats about sums up what i think about all the bickering on this forum. and guess what ALMOST ALL OF IT HAVE BEEN CONFIRMED.

ahh life is good.

/cheer steve

/laugh Rebbi

and about horde alliance comunication.. yeah they were orginally going to have it that you had to learn to speak their languages. and yay we get to kill the lich king!!!! (i hope)

oh does anyone think they wll add huge invasion quests for like raiding other cities and such? like an invasion to take UC and kill the banshee queen.. i hope so.

/cheer Alex

Posted by Taydus at October 31, 2005 06:05 AM

Check the official WoW site... Blood Elves are the Horde race.
Blizz has not officially announced the new Alliance race, but a few sites are stating it will be the Draenei. The only problem I have with this is that the racial for the Draenei is a form of stealth... Allies already have that with the night elves, seems to stack a bit on the Ally side if this is to be true.
Other issue I have is that I've read where the Blood Elves have forsaken all forms of magic save Fire/Shadow, if this is true also, warlocks would be the only caster class playable, unless they come with a negative modifier to Arcane and Frost for the mage class.
The new class listed above sounds foolish and my opinion is that it is not true.

Posted by yomammy at October 31, 2005 11:50 AM

wow need more hate between the hore and allie so that their is more raids on the big citys and more kings die. after all that is the point of being on a pvp server to kill the other people

Posted by shaneo at October 31, 2005 07:35 PM

Will you have to start over your character from World of Warcraft When you play The Burning Crusade?

Posted by Fignuts- at October 31, 2005 08:13 PM

No, you can continue your character and then enter the new lands when playing the expansion. But if you start a new race then you'll have to start at level 1.

Posted by Gaming Steve at October 31, 2005 10:02 PM

another rumor is that the new alliance race is panderan and there will be a new class thats like a warrior and a rogue. that would be sweet! and finally blizzard puts the 5 dragon aspects into the game.
Is illidan a killible NPC because i've wanted to kill him for soooooooooooooo long.

Posted by slaveboy at November 1, 2005 12:51 AM

dudes spellbreakers bloodelfs ill b owning all u casters mage warlock priest shamans druids woot it would fit because there will be 10 races in total and 10 classes to go with it just i hate blizzard making us wait in suspense

Posted by armyfart12345 at November 1, 2005 03:29 AM

I cant wait until this comes out. I think the spellbreaker will be a great class but like the mage will be low in HP. With that being said i have a 45 rogue that usually kills mages in one hit. The SB will be great against magical character but what about melee? Also thers a little contradiction. It says Sb will be a blood elves race but then it also says the alliance will have a playable SB. Which is it both sides or only horde? As i am new to WoW (2months) the new land will be interesting but i have much to learn of the old. Is there any discussion on new weapons/armor? What will some of the spells be? There seems to be a lot left out. I know its a leak and a lot has been secret but really we are being kept to far in the dark. I believ that what has een posted is true and Feel that the level increase is a good idea. Some of my friends have level 60's and are just bored with the game. If Blizzard wants to keep there gaming community the increase is a must.

Posted by Airviper119 at November 1, 2005 05:03 AM

this is goiing to be a great expansion...i dont know if being 75 will ruin the game and i dont care if the blood elfs will be horde or not! all i say is i will buy this expansion and will LOVE it!!

Posted by Scott at November 1, 2005 05:34 PM

Seriously, you guys are retarded -_-

The Draenei---> Why did they ally with Illidan? To get rid of the "problem", the Pit Lord Magtheroden *pardon the spelling* In doing so, Illidan turned around and completely proved that he himself was as power hungry as Magtheroden was... The Draenei are a peaceful more primitive people, and they are likely wise enough to see how big a "change" there was from Magtheroden to Illidan...

I could easily see the Night Elves getting along with the Draenei, and maybe even some of the dwarves/gnomes. The problem I could see would be with the Humans vs. Draenei. Half of em are so arrogant I just can't see it happening...

Posted by Save_yourself at November 2, 2005 11:42 AM

now i'm not fully sure but i think i like Save_yourself as i think he seems to think like me!!! not sure so i wont say anything but i think i finally have someone here who can see where i am going and what i am on about!!!!

Posted by Taydus at November 2, 2005 11:19 PM

To Save_Yourself and Taydus ---

Please stop calling posters retards... if you're going to put them down, do so intelligently. And for that matter, learn to form your thoughts legibly on the forum... no one can understand your typing, much less your thought process.

Posted by Bildo at November 3, 2005 11:28 AM

1: its fake
2: They will NEVER let us fight the aspects(Alextraza, Malygos, Nozdormu, Deathwing and Yzera). They are the single most powerfull entities on the planet, stronger than Illidan(who is coming in the expansion in a 40-player lvl 70 raid) and most likely stronger than Arthas(is coming in a 2nd or 3rd expansion after they increased the level cap some more "Arthas at lvl 70? Oh please, there's no way" <= Chris Metzen, WoW lore chief ;)

Posted by Thauk at November 3, 2005 02:05 PM

Um... aren't the dragons you just listed already in the game for us to fight? I'm no WoW lore buff... but aren't they the green Dragonflight... or did I read those names wrong?

Posted by Bildo at November 8, 2005 08:47 AM

You guys think blood elfs should be alliance is a stupid notion. The Blood elves left the humans because they were treated horribly by the humans like some kind of servent or pet and the night elves didnt like them because of their addition to magic so it would make since that they dont belong to the alliance but i've always thought they would be neutral but blizzards choice on making them horde.

Posted by Rudmead at November 8, 2005 05:46 PM

Sorry guys blizzard already stated there will be no new classes.


Posted by Invisible at November 11, 2005 04:36 PM

Ok some of this is right, some of it is totally untrue, and some of it is in the middle.
the bloodelves and outland are 100% true.
Draeni are possible but you can't really tell, there are quite a few races that are possible, but they will be with aliance.
Fighting the Lich King is not possible because Arthas absorbed the lich king, aka he is the lich king, it will take 2-3 expansions to get t ohis level. those huge raids are almost possible, more like 70 man co-op, and the Horde and Alliance mixing is almost 100%, we will have to join forces in the Cavern of Time at some point, it will take you back to when Thrall had learned his destiny.
(some of this may be mentioned, took way to long to read all of the posts)

Posted by Lore Guru at November 13, 2005 01:51 AM

this is all a load of bull there are NO new classes, the level cap will be raised to only 70 and most importantly, DRAENEI are maybe not going to be the allaince race, blizz is still working on that! they are like 80% sure going with pandaren so stop saying it won't be them. also that crap about players fighting the Lich King is NOT going to happen, in this expansion atleast. there will be many more expansions, blizz has alot of stuff they can show, so don't post any crap about something that aint confirmed or true at all

Posted by toni at November 14, 2005 07:59 AM


Posted by Fraser at November 14, 2005 04:59 PM

TRUE?If you know the real truth contact me and let me kno that is my e-mail adress

Posted by blake at November 14, 2005 06:24 PM

i think this is true. Bloodelfs will be true but draenia are not yet dicided. As for the instances well there true. I think it was 6 new deoungen levels are added in the expansion. Also jewelcrafting is a new profession and the spellbreaker class is not true.
this is the TRUTH(or at least part)

Posted by ORC_Sham at November 15, 2005 12:14 PM

"The people of Gilneas entombed themselves in their isolated peninsula at the outbreak of the Undead Scourge, erecting the Greymane Wall to keep out the demons and walking dead of the cursed army. To this day, refugees from the ravaged villages of Lordaeron gather at it, crying for safe haven from the Forsaken that now claim Silverpine Forest as their own.

Yet it is not much better behind the wall. For agents of the crazed wizard Arugal have infiltrated the once-prosperous land and spread a dark curse among the populace. As the first tainted moon climbed into the sky, screams rendered the countryside as the inhabitants of Gilneas changed forms and became the crazed Worgen. Few retained their minds. Many became wild and bloodthirsty.

Those who remained in control of their thoughts waged a war hidden from the eyes of the rest of the world, slaying former friends and family in an effort to preserve what little life still hoped for survival. Naming themselves the Nightcry after that first terrifying moonrise, they fought until they found themselves drained of resources and the will to continue the bloody battles alone.

Unable to conceal their horrid existence from the world any longer, a new sun rises over Gilneas. The Alliance has opened its gates to the refugees and an effort is now underway to restore humanity to the Nightcry Worgen. As one of their number, you must prove yourself a capable ally to the Alliance's cause and master the powers granted to you against your will in order to free your matter how much blood you must shed.

Their zone is south of Silverpine, and it's called Gilneas. It's a level 1-10 zone and the general flow of the quests there focuses on fighting Worgen and agents of Arugal, as well as various enraged species of wildlife. There's also a threat from a renegade navy that disbanded from Kul Tiras and is ravaging the coasts with cannonfire.

The Greymane Wall is under lock and key and you are not allowed to pass through it until your mid-20s, when quests begin pointing you to Shadowfang Keep.

Their 10-20 zone is on Kul Tiras, an island south of Gilneas and west of Menethil. It serves as a sister city to Menethil. One boat transports you between Gilneas and Kul Tiras, the other between Kul Tiras and Menethil. Kul Tiras is an island with strong navy tones and mood to it, and there's lots of crab-bashing and pirate-killing on it.

After that, logically, you leave the protected areas and head to the contested zones. The closest, of course, is the Wetlands.

No details about their play mechanics were leaked, so unfortunately there's no info about their racials.

The expansion pack site had a URL like... Someone changed the URL around, plugging in various race names and eventually hit worgen.html. It was posted on the general post, but the URL was deleted within two minutes of the post. i saw this posted on;mid=113054703793886597;num=3 sounds logical

Posted by {S.i.P} Shank_Klepto at November 17, 2005 03:11 PM

Posted by elstinko at November 22, 2005 10:33 PM

Stop freaking out about all this speculation. Listen to what Blizzard says and nothing else. Theres no way any real information is going to leak. Random people have you guys all hyped up over a bunch of lies.

When the expansion does come out, some people are going to complain, whine, cry, bitch and moan over things they cant change. In fact, they should just STFU, be happy and remember... its only a game.

So everyone, take a chill pill, sit on your hands and wait. I'm excited as well.

Posted by UD_Shadow_Priest at December 4, 2005 12:32 PM

That's the best thing I've heard yet. Cheers to UD_Shadow_Priest. Whatever you guys talk about isn't going to change what Blizzard does and it just gets everyone pissed off. Just be patient, enjoy the game, and trust that Blizzard will do things right. Hold your complaining till AFTER its release when things are actually set.
That's all from me.

Posted by Darkartist at December 6, 2005 07:09 AM


Posted by K-Zone at December 18, 2005 12:52 PM

yes, i believe they have missed our something. NEW PROFFESIONS - Jewel crafting. i believe someone said earlier lvl 70 is not possible? i believe they released that officialy on the WOW site -.^ anyhoo, i do partialy agree that lvl 70 will be overpowered horribly so there should be a way to unlock getting above lvl 60. for example full magisters can be used as a key to start a quest so mages can solo a special mage boss to unlock their next 10 lvls. something like that for everyclass would be cool. like warlocks in full dreadmist unlocks a quest to defeat a big demon or rogues might have to get full shadowcraft to unlock a quest to stealth past a building full of ppl to get a secret document. OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. i dont think that being able to get to 70 without doing MC or whatever is sane. ppl are gonna jsut skip out BWL or MC and go straight to the higher ones. most ppl are also gonna screw off their class sets which i ont agree with.

Posted by Asbestos at December 29, 2005 04:58 PM

I was pondering myself on the new alliance race. And I got two opinions screamed at me. In my opinion they contridict eachother: The new race will be with the WoW theme. OR The new race will be a race that isn't already in the game.

So how can it fit the theme and not be in the game? Worgen, as someone mentioned barely, sound like a possibility. But that's not why I'm here... whatever it is it would have to be humanoid and be able to actually WEAR the current armor, wouldn't it? So nothing snake like, dragon like, or animal like. Get the point?

You may have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about, but I think kitsune would be cool. *scratches head* But that's just me and they aren't already in the game or in the history (I don't think...). But then again, why WOULD they add something entirely new? *shrug*

Posted by celes at December 30, 2005 01:49 AM

heres my only real beef, im just alltile ticked that im gona have to start up a horde character to use the pimp Blood Elfs but my main and im only alltiel ticked that im gona be hanging with a bunch of gay little green aliens, i mean make them furbogs or somthing, centaurs? that sounds cool imagine centurs there racial is slightly faster runing speed. right my main beef... try to imagine a top lvl blood elf spell breaker. that is deadly. such huge resistance. wear mail? make it leather or somthing. they will be caster killers not tanks. ya but i Vote Centuar or maybe... any other one of the humanoid mercaneries from frozen throne. ok peace

post when you hear about their new skills

Posted by Jay at January 18, 2006 02:57 PM

ummm...jay.....why would it be centaur
the centaur and the horde hate each other,
that was the whole reason that cairne joined thrall in the first place

Posted by konfuzion at February 1, 2006 11:41 PM

ok seriously this is stupid! now we do know the BEs will be the new horde race. the other race you are claiming to be the allaince race wont happen i may have only started playing the frozen throan but i know that thats not gonna be the race. now it would be nice to communicate with the alliance & horde but 100 man raid? i doubt it.

Posted by psht! at February 15, 2006 04:50 PM

er..why haven't yall checked the actual blizzard site the have all the info on the expansion set

Posted by rob at February 24, 2006 08:48 PM

are there any pictures or screenshots of the new alliance race

Posted by traouronsss at February 28, 2006 12:32 AM

When he F$%K is this thing comin out?

Posted by Whopper at March 23, 2006 10:11 AM

Omfg Read there you will see that the blood elvs are joining the horde and they start in Quel'thalas at lvl 1,Archimonde will be killable in the caverns of time raid instance.

Posted by Srakk at March 28, 2006 07:16 AM

OMG i believe the dranerie are with the allience and the blood elfs are with the horde for one NAGA!! dont live in the outland and second the NAGA are the night elf the naga hate the night elfs becuase the naga think they are more advanced. the dranerie are defenetly not going to team up with the horde becuase they were already kicked out of the orcs civilization the dranerie were nearly cuassed to be extint becuase of the orcs. plus the blood elfs are not going to be allied with the dranerie if all the blood elfs want are power 0_0 everything matchs up with the blood elfs and dranerie

Posted by the man at April 1, 2006 08:04 AM

I would just like to say that almost none of this is true. There is no "spell breaker" the alliance race is not certain to be draeni, the info realeased about it, is bullcrap. there is no "spell breaker" becuz they said no new classes. Gnomergan ill pretend isnt there becuz its IN THE GAME as an instance and a crappy little lvl 9 place!! Northrend is not in the game yet, maybe next expansion. Blood elves are 100% true to be in the horde though thank you,

Naztravaz, Game Moderator, Frostwolf server.

Posted by Lolzor! at April 2, 2006 07:33 PM

I think alliance are getting wisps not Draenei

Its on official WoW sITE

Posted by Kent Brown at April 16, 2006 04:53 PM


and on burning crusade site

Posted by Kent Brown at April 16, 2006 04:55 PM

Actually, the wisp thing was an april fool's day joke. Bliz had 3 jokes, including the "evil patch" and "burgercraft." Scroll to the bottom of the page to see. the "evil patch" was quite hilarious =)

Posted by Xathron at April 18, 2006 11:14 AM

I think its pretty cool that the new lvl cap is 75 but what about the battle grounds? are the ranks going to be the same still and what about the reputation points. and some one had a pretty nice point about the epic items being nothing if the lvl cap is 75 now. I have seen people waste there life on WoW to get thier epic set items and now a lvl 62 item will be better then thier epic item.

Posted by theo at April 26, 2006 01:55 PM

this is so inaccurate its not even funny...

Posted by noobs at May 3, 2006 11:28 AM

JESUS....You people really just need to go to the blizzard website and stop all of this bs

Posted by Maverick at May 11, 2006 01:13 AM

lololol, gaming steve.... noob

everyone, only website you should go to for info is

lololololol anyone who believes crap on any site other then blizzard suxx0rs teh big 111!!1!

Peace out, nubs

Posted by lolololwtfomfg at May 12, 2006 05:40 AM

@ lolololwtfomfg:

You are the noob here. As you see this has been posted on october 20th, 2005. Back then nothing was known yet about the expansion (or at least not much). And Gamingsteve actually managed to get most of the infor right (except for the new class then).

I am really wanting to see this new content, but I know for a fact that I won't reroll from my main character (Hordey Hunter).

Posted by X1PH01D at May 12, 2006 08:56 PM

does anybody now the release date yet because i was told it was gonna take longer than july 4th

Posted by bailey at May 13, 2006 04:49 PM

Thin Blizz will nurf Onyxia ragnaros and other bosses they wont give us the pleaseure of doing 5man ony in lvl 70 :(

Posted by Goos at May 16, 2006 01:23 PM

Good job Gaming Steve. Most of what you discovered is true. And I think that what is not on this expansion is for next ones :D

See, Blizz said that many new instances will come, but they still don't know how many. That's because they are developing lots of contents, but not all of then will come on BC release. Most will come on future patches. The same happened with this original WoW, where DM came a few patches after release, BWL was predicted but only some months after release it was playable, ZG is part of the original content with Hakkar on it but only came 1 year later...

Also Caverns of Time and Uldum is there. That tauren asked to go back to him that he could have news about Uldum but nothing else was told. Naxx will come soon with patch 1.11, earlier than BC release.

SpellBracker seems cool unfortunately it seems it will not come yet. And there are a few islands on middle of ocean that are not accessible but for sure they are there for some reason, and since the Draenei noob area will be a new "invisible" island I think Blizz already has something prepared for each of those islands. And also that strange "whiri" in the middle on the map, that on the WoWIntro movie was rotating...

For what I see, Outland will be a high lvl continent. I thought that Blood Elf noob area would be there since they were living there but now Blizz said that they will be at Quel'Thalas, north of Plaguelands.
With so many new dongeaons (most not coming on BC release) and "hundreds of elite quests" I supose that only by elite ways we will be able to lvl over 60, and it will take too long to up each lvl. Today I take 8h for each lvl 30-50 and 16h for each lvl 50-60, maybe 60-70 will take like 40 hours to up each lvlm wich will take 16 days of playtime, the same time I take to go 1-60.

I was also bored with the only 25% increase in world content, but since Outland will be dungeon and elite oriented each square meter will be more worthy :D

Finally, for true the actual gear will turn to trash with BC, and Blizz still doesn't know how to not get actual raiders angry. But now I'm raiding MC and killed Ony a few times (I play since WoW release but stopped playing for 8 months and rerolled at january), and I've seen that Arcanist gear is not that good, there is even another mage on guild that is farming dkp for tier2. And when Naxx be released tier2 will also be not that much attactive as it is now.
For now what I see is that you need good blue gear to own MC, tier1 raiders to get tier2, tier2 to not wipe at AQ, and probably some AQ to do Naxx. Even today ppl that are raiding AQ must not do MC anymore.
With the lvl cap increase, Strat/Scholo/DM/BRS will turn to what Maraudon Princess run is today, Ony/MC/BWL will be 5-10man raids, AQ will be 15man and Naxx will be like 25man. They already reformated Strat/Scholo/DM/BRS to receive fewer man groups. So the top gear of today will be like dongeon1 gear of today, only useful for new lvl70 and for casual players that can't raid. For the casual players *MAYBE* it will be great to finally go MC and BWL on small guilds.

Posted by Hikari at May 16, 2006 04:51 PM

this is a bunch of crap, why would blizzard say its gona be 70 then say oh we lied, now its 75? the spell breaker class seems overpowerd from your perspective but i know it will be in the game, E3 confrence

a 100 man raid sounds like a bunch of sh**, blizz knows that not all computers could handle that much, and of all listen to the actual blizzard site instead of assuming crap like "oh i think it would be 75 because uhhh i am taking this information from a drunkard on the street" so dont read this crap people its a waste of time

Posted by keadan at May 17, 2006 07:57 PM

Well the original source said it was fake some months later...
Probably he is a WC fanatic that knows much about the history and created that fic. None of what he said wasn't already know, like Naxx that is already mentioned at Strat.

I believed it because he was right about the Blood Elf and Draenei even before Blizzcon.

Checking better now, the 2 most proof of fake is the fact that he didn't mention AQ and the many dungeons of same difficulty. Blizzard normally dev each dungeon with different difficulty: until lvl50 we have only 1 dungeon for each lvl and Naxx > AQ > BWL > MC...
He also didn't said a word about the improviments on BG.

I hope Blizz implements the 100man raid. It will be boring to go back in time fight Archimonde and have NPC NE at our side.

Posted by Hikari at May 18, 2006 09:30 AM

Its said on Blizzard that the Draenei were deformed and i think the draenei were jsut corrupted so it is possible to be in the alliance.....and the bloodelves make perfect sence....the levelcap is not stupid and it might be 75 but noone knows...not even Blizzard...

Posted by mjcooldude9 at May 23, 2006 01:05 AM

i forgot to mention steve is mostly right except the part of archimonde coming back because the wisps destroyed him...good thing they got rid of the wisp being the new alliance race i would stop playing WoW if that happened..Arthas did not absorb the Lich King they just fused

Posted by mjcooldude9 at May 23, 2006 01:12 AM

What resists will be required for the various dungeons?

Posted by Chris Lucernoni at May 24, 2006 07:16 AM

tis is bs the spell braker class does not exist and dranei will have pallys and preists as well, and yes dranei will join the alliance and BE the horde not a new faction...

Posted by !..! at May 25, 2006 12:18 PM

Dranei new alliance race...Bloodelves new horde race Jewelcrafting...Outlands...Flying Mounts...Lv 70...Socketed Items...etc. etc. Don't believe me check out and go to the burning crusade home page.

Posted by Darros at June 5, 2006 11:47 PM

ok there will be no new class and i know this because if u g to there is a video about the burning crusade and the ppl who made the game said there will not be a new class because it will be to difficult to even all the classes out

Posted by gabriel at June 21, 2006 03:26 AM

yea this is a cool site... some of this info is still under looked i guess the word would be. im only lvl 40 right now so i am wondering if i can make 60by october. do u think we will still function well if wedont have a 60 toon?
i got this game "WoW" in may when the intial expansion release date was. i wanna be able to keep my character but if they make the spawn points for the trolls and so on r different then my "for instance" lvl 2 troll priest will be moved?

Posted by chickenlover at July 24, 2006 09:57 AM

I wouldn't push any of this under the rug yet. When the expansion hits it's not going to be fully open. Some new areas will be open but most will still be under development. Blizz won't need to open the higher lvl instances for a while due to the lack of higher lvl players for a while. All those places exsist in Azeroth's lore somewhere so they might as well put them into the game. At the expansion launch they may only raise the cap to 70, but may have quests, or other means of raising it again at a later date. Most MMO's do it this way so we will just have to wait to find out!

Posted by Whipsy at August 1, 2006 11:23 PM

Is there any news on new tier sets? If so, how many?

Posted by seniorelf at August 8, 2006 10:35 AM

you own your info was great months before to! wouldnt be surprised if the rest is right too. hoping for the 75 levlcap!

Posted by mike at September 21, 2006 11:16 PM

No way the Draenei have unseen, that would interfear to much with gameplay!! Max level isn't 75 either its 70

Posted by FrankdaTank at September 27, 2006 02:08 PM

im a horde player and it's bad that alliance are getting shamans and horde getting pallys cuz pallys totally suck and shammys pwn.

Posted by catt at October 2, 2006 02:51 PM

im a horde player and it's bad that alliance are getting shamans and horde getting pallys cuz pallys totally suck and shammys pwn.

Posted by catt at October 2, 2006 02:54 PM

Burning crusade homepage... check it out... it'll answer all your questions.. well most of them.

Posted by BubbleHearth at October 4, 2006 08:44 PM

Actually, expanisons you know, usually are a lil bit better grapjhics and new strff, not a entirely new game

Posted by PAdge at October 7, 2006 01:22 PM