Oh please let it be Return of the Lost Vikings... PLEASE! I loved those guys... Though Lost Vikings 2 makes a sequel kinda hard... maybe they could take an alternate world and put some spins on the whole theme.

So the Asia angered over the use of Pandas rumor was true eh? God that bites... Wanted to play one so bad... hope Yao Ming can go over there and change some minds.. please don't let it be the Draenei...

Steve wrote:
But considering the charged political reasons surrounding this issue I do not believe that Blizzard will change their mind on this decision.

So there ar epolitical reasons regarding the draw-back of pandarens? What, did Green Peace sue them for having pandas run around in heavy armor bashing on cows and other living animals?

Now that i tcom to think of it, that could make for a nice little arcade... WWF: The Terminator : P

"charged political issue" on pandarens? Can we get a little more information on this?

Sorry, I have said as much as I can about the Pandarens. In time I expect Blizzard to explain this (most likely when the Alliance race is announced), but I can't say any more on this subject.

I'm interested in more "dirt". This is the stuff that Blizzard is keeping under wraps for whatever reason. I'd like to know what the politics are. I want to know more behind the scenes about WHY things are the way they are. I'd like to know about blown ideas, I'd like to hear when people make mistakes - especially mistakes that get into production.

This is the type of stuff the Gaming Steve can get - and why I listen to his podcast.

Keep up the good work - now just get your pals at Blizzard to open up more information more freely. I give a lot of credit to the guys over at Cryptic (City of Heroes) because they are VERY involved with the community. Blizzard could be a little more so - just my opinion. I will, however, also say that they have made leaps and bounds from when the game was released. They used to keep players in the dark about what they were working on, and now at least they have a "what's in the works" section on their site. Better than nothing!

-Chris

I love the way you put everything into perspective Steve.
It just makes logical sense.

I love how the Horde becomes the Blizzard refuse pile for bad story and lose ends.

Hmm.. the Horde need a third race.. the Forsaken! A bunch of evil undead working to create a super plague!

Hmm.. the Horde needs a pretty race because the game demographic results in people not wanting to play a faction with less polish (story, models, towns).. I mean ugly races.

Lets give the Horde Blood Elves! You mean... Elves that draw power from demonic sources... kind of like how the Orc's just broken the chains of century long slavery to Demonic Overlords?

Yes. Exactly like that. Why would the Orcs take in demon slaves? Because the Horde needs something pretty to get a higher population - and we cn't do cross server battlegrounds!

Now the question is Steve, when will we hear what the new alliance race is? Sometime this year, or closer to the 06 release?

Also, you said they were 80% certain that Pandaren were going to be the race at one time... what could have happened? Is it possible certain Asian groups, or any type of, let's call them Panda Enthusiasts, were dismayed by the Pandaren Xpress joke? If it is a problem from a cultural standpoint, how come Tauren are allowed in the game and Indians aren't down Blizzard's throat about the sacrilege-ness of the /moo emote?

This doesn't make sense, unless Asia told Blizzard executives they'd pull the plug on the Eastern version of the game, I see no political reasons the Pandaren race should be witheld...

Doesn't the world have more important things to gripe about at the moment?

Yo Bildo,

umm the whole Indian and Tauren thing isn't really a problem, seeing as how the Taurens are modeled after Native American Indians, not the Asian Indians (you know, the ones from India) who believe that cows are sacred.

As far as the whole Asians getting pissed about the Pandas, I've never heard anything about it. But those chinese can get pretty uppity about their culture, and I'm sure Blizzard does not want to piss of billions of potential customers. Is it not possible that Blizzard nipped this in the bud themselves and weren't pressured by an outside group. I really don't know what happened, and I doubt we ever will. But dang, I really wanted to be a Pandaren Shodo-pan.

Ok I see your point about the Cows, but I was just making a comparison anyway, albeit a faulty one. I am there with ya though Andrew... so desperately wanted to get drunk with my Panda named Grasshopper, and go kick some Horde tail. Here's hoping if it is the Draenei and not some other newly developed race, that they clean those ugly mugs up and make them at least somewhat likeable.

Though long ago, the alliance was told they may receive a "Big" Race... so what could that leave us? Furbolgs? Surely not Ogres... It's going to be Bipedal most likely, what would that leave?

Think mythical creatures... could we see the generic Half-Orcs? Highly doubtful, but you know where I'm going with this.

Let's share some ideas... I'm having trouble coming up with any.

Here's a response i got from a fellow WoW player from china.

"The first documentation of Panda in Chinese history was back in the Tang Dynasty, when the only woman king-Wu Zetian was in power. There was documentation of a big, bamboo and meat eating animal which is believed panda nowadays. Afterwards, there was no record of panda appearing in the Chinese history.

Later in the early 19's century, a few European explorers found out this type of animal in the mountains in Sichuan province of China. The name 'panda' soon became very popular for 2 reasons: 1. they are lovely, 2. they are a species that have been living for a very long time and is of great significance in the studies of revolution.

Nowadays, panda is very famous all over the world, it is even considered a symbol of China. However, from what I described above, pandas are NOT in tranditional Chinese culture. Two hundred years ago, 99% of the Chinese did not know about pandas at all. There wasn't even a word corresponding to 'panda' in Chinese. For those who are familiar with Chinese language, they will know that the word corresponding to panda is 'xiong mao' in simplified Chinese(used in mainland China) and 'mao xiong' in traditional Chinese(used in Taiwan, Hongkong and Macao).

IMHO, panda is a symbol of 'European' or 'Western' China, instead of the real China. The Chinese like to talk about it because it is one of the very few things that Westerners know about China. Pandas are not even existing in traditional Chinese culture, not to mention there is any sort of 'taboo' on pandas. There are seveal types of animals which are considered semi-god, like dragons, phoenixes,kylins. Luckily, they do not really exist. Actually, even if they exist, there is no 'taboo' on them. The reason is simple, there is no absolute 'god' in Chinese culture. All of the beings, trees, rabbits, wolves, human beings, if they have done engouh good deeds, can become a god. At the same time, all of the gods, if they become corrupted, can be ripped off their position of being a god and becoem a normal human being, or even worse. All of the beings, gods, human beings, ghosts, animals, follow the same rule: Dao. If any being goes against the Dao, they are killable. "

Excellent insight Observer. So, though his is just one opinion, albeit an informed one, one can infer from those words that Chinese or Asian culture should not be offended by the use pf Pandas as a playable creature...

So what's the deal? I doubt we'll ever know. Perhaps it was just WWF getting angry about the use of their mascot :)

"they are a species that have been living for a very long time and is of great significance in the studies of revolution."
Hehe, in America you have the evolution vs religion debate, but in communist china, it's the "revolution" :P

I need to call something out here.

Posting a "fact" on your site to rebuttal a rumor, and then not backing the statement, does not in fact make it true. If anything, it's countering a rumor with yet another rumor, or worse, creating your own.

I have to ask, what's your credible source for your statements of an "80% certainty dropping to 0%", where do you get your facts? Are you theorising or pulling from a real development source? Anyone can tell you that Blizz invited gaming magazine editors into thier studio, it's all over the IGN networks, but what does that have to do with the drop?

And furthermore... I highly doubt some Chinese (Western in fact) having some issues with the use of Pandas as a base animal could stop anything, most of Blizzard's Asian customers come from S. Korea, East China, Singapore, and various other areas that historically have never had a problem with such a use... so what's up?

Panda = more Alliance = greater imbalance = bad for WoW

I think thats pretty close to the truth Snap, Pandaren would actually make the population imbalance worse

forget the chinese government, I'M offended by the use of pandas!

Am I the only one that thinks a race of giant pandas would be disgustingly silly and unnecessary? IF The aim were to raise horde numbers by giving horde a pretty race and alliance a horrid race, then panderan works out nicely. Yes.

I can't say I regret the pandarens being yanked. Bleh.

Serena, you are going to have to take Gaming Steve on his word. He has links in the gaming industry, as he has shown time and time again, and to me, his word is almost as good as a statement straight from the developers.

I do, however, wonder about something. Some time back, in one of his podcasts, Steve said that the expansion was going to contain Naga, and what he said suggested that they were going to be a playable race. Care to explain, Steve?

"I do, however, wonder about something. Some time back, in one of his podcasts, Steve said that the expansion was going to contain Naga, and what he said suggested that they were going to be a playable race. Care to explain, Steve?"

Sure! Actually it isn't that interesting of a story. When I was Blizzard a few years ago and fooling around with the WOW alpha test I was talking with some of the devs about future items. One thing they mentioned was that they expected the expansion to take place underwater with the Naga being a playable race (something similar to the Dark Age of Camelot: Trials of Atlantis expansion). However this was a long time ago, way back when there were just six playable races in WOW, so obviously they changed their mind and the direction of the game, and back then WOW and War III were much closer tied together in storyline and mythology. I only learned that this was dropped a few months ago. Shame really, I would have liked to have seen that...

Something else you have to remember with this expansion is that pretty much 98% of the decisions being made have to do with balance and maximizing the sales (and fun) of the expansion. Very little being added is "just for the hell of it". Instead everything is being very carefully calculated and examined. Plus you have to add into the mix that WOW is a worldwide phenomenon which no MMORPG to date has had to address like WOW has had to address. Blizzard can't just add something just because the US market wants it, they have to add content that the world wants. This is unbelievably tricky to do and requires constant testing and retesting of ideas -- which is one of the main reasons that Blizzard is so hesitant on giving out details on their games. They don't like to change their mind unless they have to (anyone remember Warcraft Adventures: Lord of the Clans? They STILL get complaints about canceling that game!). Hence, they might appear to be stingy with their information, they are just being careful. Could you imagine the backlash if they announced that the expansion was going to take place underwater with the Naga and then they totally changed the direction ... which they basically did? People wouldn't stop complaining until the year 2050!

Okay, I think that post is long enough!

Anyone besides me think about the possibility of a Lizard-like race? Tucked in the pages of the Artbook, you can find a concept sketch of a Dragonman. Page 68 to be precise, bottom left corner. Not a dragonkin, but a 2-legged dragon-man. It's reaching, but who knows. I for one, now with my Pandaren shot down, would welcome a brand new cool race like that. Just a thought.

A lizard race... like EQ had? Not a particularly foreign concept to the RPG franchise... Considering how trite the races for the Alliance are, that might be just the thing, oddly. The Tauren, undead, orcs, and trolls are really the only distinguishing races for WoW. Without them, the races would be far more cookie-cutter. While the alliance side of the game is more polished in general, the Horde seems more innovative, if only on a visual level. Which might be why they feel they need to spend so much time finding an alliance race... something innovative, but still not as attractive as evil elves is difficult indeed to come up with.

I HAVE PROOF THAT DRAENAI WILL BE THE NEW RACE.

In the Upper region of the swamp of sorrows the Draenai Exiles. live!!! They are NPCs of Draenai and having them there basically means that blizzard has a good reason for having them allied with the alliance. As they can use the exiles as a reason for the alliance and Draenai to meet. If you do not believe me then go there yourselves. The place is called The Harborage its in the north west. Very easy to find....

THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE!!!

THE NEW RACE IS DRAENAI!!!

GET OVER IT!!!!

GET USED TO IT!!!!!

THE DRAENAI ARE ALREADY AMONG US!!!!!!

Nooo, how can they taunt us this way, Panda would be the coolest race ever. I was rather unexcited about the prospect of a new race until I heard about the possibility of it being Panda, now what are the alternatives? Naga? meh, Draenai? They're like miniature old men. I hope its not something lame like not wanting to offend the Koreans because the Panda is a Chinese icon.

Dam we need a World of Starcraft.

Taydus, but that same line of thinking I could say the Furbolgs are going to be the race, based on the tunnel in northern Felwood and being able to go all the way to Exhalted with them. Your "proof" is no more proof than me saying Gryphons will be the new race because there are friendly ones to the alliance in the Hinterlands.

I'm not saying it's not possible this may be what's done, but it sure as heck isn't proof, bud.

Taydus, the Draenai have been there since Beta. If that's proof then I have conclusive evidence thta the Goblins, the Naga, the Wildkin, and the Furbolgs are all going to be playable! :P

Hell, besides the fact that there's a NUETRAL tribe of Draenai in the Swamp of Sorrow, I have yet to see a shred of evidence pointing to the Draenai being playable.

Also, there is no aquatic race in DAoC. I played Trials of Atlantis pretty hardcore when the expansion came out, they gave us a lot of water breathing potions, a spell to allow for longer water brething, and special air pockets to catc our breath in, but no underwater races.

Steve, still waiting for something more solid then you told us so. If this was such a huge truth, the very credible online sources would have at least taken down thier old claims by now...

Heck, a recent piece of evidence comes from just one week ago, where a player nagging a GM got a a very big hint ( http://student.delta.edu/clarkcarlton/gmonpandas.jpg ), "I can't say anything offically but be on the lookout for vanishing leaves."

...If you see vanishing leaves, know that a Panda invasion is immenent.

The only thing I can say about that screenshot is that GMs are on the very lowest end of the information chain for WOW. They are not developers and don't create the content you're going to see in the game 1-2 years down the line. The people I know are part of the core development team and are the very first people to know what's going on.

I guess only time will tell who was correct...

What exactly does "disappearing leaves" refer to? This little bit is lost on me.

Pandas are Herbivores, while they normally eat Bamboo and Bamboo Shoots, they are known, like many pure herbivores, to feed off leaves. As I said, if one notices disappearing leaves, prepare for the Panda Invasion. :)

Ahh, duh! I'm a dummy. Thanks Serena. Is it perhaps Steve, that your friend would lead you, and Blizz would leave others, to believe the Pandas couldn't happen in order to throw us off, only to announce them in a few months? Doubtful, I know, but man do I still want Pandas... forget the Horde/Alliance Imbalance, make Pandas their own faction, and no one will play either side anymore.... we'll all just sit around Pandaria drinking beer and shlurring our shpeech... hic!

Hmm, "disappearing leaves", that leads me to think of Agent Orange, which was used in the Vietnam War, which is featured in Apocalypse Now, starring Marlon Brando, who played the Godfather with Al Pacino, who played opposite Keanu Reeves in the Devil's Advocate. Keanu, in The Matrix, starred with Laurence Fishburn who was in The Woodsman with Kevin Bacon!
The new alliance race is, of course, Kevin Bacon.

No wait... it was Mystic River, no The Woodsman. Damnit, I just spoiled the joke...

Nice job though, I missed the discrepency. Well played game of 6-Degrees of Kevin Bacon, my friend.

I love the fact that the Horde is getting the Blood Elves, and Steve is on the money, Blizzard owns the lore, they can do as they please with it. If they say it makes sense, it makes sense.

But as far as the Panderan and the "unofficial sources" at Blizzard goes, I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it. I'll admit that I'm new to GamingSteve.comland, but when I see someone on the internet flaunting "facts" from an "inside source" that goes against all the other rumors out there, and his sole defense this is that "oh they changed their mind, I know, blizzard likes me cuz I'm cool!" I just can't put much creedance in it.

If Mr. Steve has such good inside sources at Blizzard why is he quoting population numbers from warcraftrealms.com? Is he saying that the population numbers on that site are actually accurate, even though Blizzard says they are not?

Also, why did Gaming Steve post the *exact* same leaked Blood Elf screenshots and Expansion pack info that every other website on the nart had? Yes, this info was the same information that Blizzard later released at Blizzcon, Gaming Steve *may* know more. But knowing that lawyers were creeping around trying to get this leaked info removed from websites, wouldn't posting this stuff jepordize Steve's source? Hell, Jeff Green ended up deleting his blog post, and all he really said is "I know something that you don't know, kek".

All I'm saying is that you can throw around rumors from now until the expansion comes out, and it still means nothing. Especially when you so purposfully leave the "oh they changed their minds again!" wide open for when you are wrong.....

So... you like Pandas? Me too, kekekek.

IN reference to the post about Pandarens further unbalancing alliance vs. horde population, I agree. However, if Blizzard truly wanted to balance the game, put the Pandarens in the Horde faction. As has been posted numerous times, Blizzard can do whatever it wants with it's universe, so why not put Pandarens in as a Horde race? Think of the mass exodus from Alliance to Horde so people can play as a Panda bear :). Yes, Blood Elves are cool, but if you want to entice new Horde players, give a WHOLE new race, not just a different skin color on an old race.
And yes, I know Blood Elves have already been officially announced, but just my 2 cents.
My other question is in regards to the number of character slots. Are they going to give me a couple extra slots, or should I stop playing one of my toons now, and get ready to delete him/her?

Depends, if you mainly play alliance, do what I do, and designate another server for horde. If you play horde, vice versa. But if you mean you have 10 alliance characters already on one server, then yeah I would delete a not-much played toon now and open the slot for whatever race we're getting, which is what I did on my main server.

Moved my few horde alts (all relatively low) to a different server. Now I play horde on one, alliance on another. gives me 10 slots for characters each :) Works for me.

Personally I think it is stupid that Pandaren got pulled for 'political reasons'. I have not heard that retarded in years of being in the gaming industry..

Ah, yes. Lets all listen to someone who has no Affiliation with Blizzard at all! Surely he must be right.

Judging by this guys credentials this must also be true - http://chaoscloud.ytmnd.com/

I'm sure all the people who spent months in Molten Core and BWL, trying to complete their sets, will be thrilled. Now they can spend another 6 months farming the next dungeon to replace their gimp level 60 epics. The whole wow end game revolves around farming the same high level dungeon over and over for items... It's not much different from being a gold farmer. The only difference is the farmers get a little money for their troubles.

Don't listen to this "Gaimng Steve" guy.... Look at the reasons he gives for being sure that pandaren won't be the new race.

"However, due to various complex reasons, there is now a zero percent chance of this happening. At best you might be seeing non-killable Pandaren NPCs in the game."

and then:

Well, anything is possible, and Blizzard is famous for changing their mind about ... well, everything! But considering the charged political reasons surrounding this issue I do not believe that Blizzard will change their mind on this decision."

He's written four sentences supporting his assertion that pandaren's will not be the new race, but really, has offered not a single reason for why he believes this to be true. I'm not saying he's wrong, just that there is absolutely no reason to believe hat he is saying based on what he wrote.

I really hope their not serious about not having Pandaren.

Ok, interesting stuff on the WoW forums.

"Case in point: Warcraft 3. It featured the killing of both Panda-esque creatures (in the form of Pandaren critters, and later the Pandaren Brewmaster), as well as the death of children (even if it didn't show it, it was still there).

By your logic, a lot of the movies out there today should not exist, because they actually feature--or talk about in great detail--the death of children.

There are no laws on virtual items, because they don't physically exist. They are representations of numerical data. They don't hurt anyone. Nor is anyone directly assaulted by it.

As such, I'd like to point out that the Chinese law that protects pandas, protects them from Smuggling or Poaching. As well, they have laws that protect their habitat.

After all my searching, I have yet to find any article or piece of legislature that states that the [virtual] killing of Pandas is unlawful.

Also, this is to prove to some of my server-friends that the Panda Cub can indeed be killed, as well as other pets (killed the Jubling, Wood Frog, Silver Tabby, and a parrot in the same way)."

"It has already been pointed out by people who live in china no such law exists, only for the actual killing of RL pandas."

I don't know Steve, some of this stuff just isn't making sense. What are some of the other reasons?

I'm going with Blizzard is simply trying to deter us from the guesses we've made that they WILL be in game, so we stop talking about it long enough for them to introduce them and say, HA! Fooled you!

Or they are using this legal excuse for a way out of giving the alliance race that would only FURTHER the imbalance. Let's face it, even with the cool Blood Elves, people would still rather play a Pandaren. They're just that cool.

yes people using my PROOF it does seem like u could have any of those other race but if u look back on WC3 and the expansion u will find that those race dont play an important role unlike the Draenei.

Futhermore... HAS ANYONE SEEN ANY PANDA NPCs???????

NOOOOO

but the next best choice for a race, the Draenei, has NPCs!!!

please people think before you try and disprove my thinking...

i will laugh when they bring out the Draenei or i will glady admit i was wrong if they do by some strange chance bring in the Pandas.

BAH pandas.... what a joke...

Well, I haven't seen any blood elf NPC's around, but I haven't been to all the lvl 60 areas yet, so I think that just because you haven't SEEN pandaren npcs eliminates them from consideration. I am not saying that pandarens are in (or out), just that that argument makes little sense.
Sorry Taydus

I don't get why almost everyone who posted on here is so huffy puffy about the idea of not being able to play as a panda.

A panda? Seriously?

The idea of seeing a panda running around while im slaying creatures is sickening.

To be blunt that would take away alot of the (big elaborate word choice->) coolness of the game.

Think about it.

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you thank you!!!

that is what i have been trying to also explain!!!

PANDAS ARE A JOKE AND THEY WOULD MALE WOW STUPID!!!!!

TheVoid I thank you sooo much!!!!!

/bow TheVoid

MAKE*

and as a reply to Yatsuo....

yes there are Blood Elf NPCs.. or something close to them..

if you use your BRAIN for along than a few secs u will see that Pandarens makes no sense what so ever...

The Draenei are a proper race and they were playable in WC3 frozen throne if you made a map with their building. Also the naga were playable but... how would a naga fly on a griffon???

as i said before.. "please people think before you try and disprove MY thinking..."

and Yatsuo my argument makes prefect sense.. The existence of a Draenei village in WoW means that they have a bargaining point for including the Draenei as a playable race.
Even if that village has been there since beta then that makes my argument even more solid. Blizzard wont pull the PANDAS (what a f**king joke) out of nowhere and make them playable!!!

IF they wanted to have Pandarens as a playable race they would have made AT LEAST one panda NPC... Yes the Pandarens are a race that likes to hide and stay away from other races.. but NO.. they wont do it.. NO SERIOUS gamer wants to see a race of pandas ruin his/her fav game by making it look any more CUTE and happy.... WoW needs more dark evil races. for example the blood elves (power hunger elves) and the Draenei (a kind of peaceful race that looks evil and ugly).

and to further prove my point here is something another post on WoW topic said.

"Seriously, you guys are retarded -_-

The Draenei---> Why did they ally with Illidan? To get rid of the "problem", the Pit Lord Magtheroden *pardon the spelling* In doing so, Illidan turned around and completely proved that he himself was as power hungry as Magtheroden was... The Draenei are a peaceful more primitive people, and they are likely wise enough to see how big a "change" there was from Magtheroden to Illidan...

I could easily see the Night Elves getting along with the Draenei, and maybe even some of the dwarves/gnomes. The problem I could see would be with the Humans vs. Draenei. Half of em are so arrogant I just can't see it happening..."
~Save_yourself

Unless anyone has any better proof of what a race other than the Draenei would be our new race.. please tell me and then we will see when Blizzard brings it out..

btw sorry for the long post and the major grammer mistakes and spelling... i noticed them too late.

Ok question there Taydus... if Pandaren are a "fu**ing joke", why is it that Blizzard was planning on going with them up until only a little while ago? The choice to NOT go with them had nothing to do with what gamers who think anything other than something "evil" (which has really little or no place in alliance anyway, use better word choice) think should happen in the game. Because unlike your bad grammatically expressed feelings, 90% of people who play alliance would abso-freakin-lutley love to play pandaren. They're not cute and cudly, their huge, strong, ferocious warriors... when they're not drinking beer and hiding away from the world.

What you fail tom realize, is just like with the Bloodelves, Blizzard can change the lore on a moment's notice. It is THEIR game, and for all you know we may even see the Tuskarr as a race instead of any of the others... which would also be very cool.

So stop thinking you have all the answers, because your arguments are faulty at best, and can barely even be read.

Am I saying that you're wrong about the Draenei? No, indeed they're very possible as the race, moreso than many others, but before you go claiming your argument is the best, read what Steve sad, kid.

"don't rule out any race (including the "ugly" Draenei). Well, any race except the Pandaren."

And even then I wouldn't rule out the Pandaren. Even Steve's info, if valid, could wind up being wrong.

I just don't think the Pandaren, even though I personally would love to see one, would be in the game with this expansion, considering the goal is to HELP server horde/alliance balance, not hurt it.

So in short and in summation...

Stop babbling incoherently Taydus.

Oh, and go to blizzard.com or battle.net and look up the Tuskarr. Tell me that wouldn't be a cool race.

Now I know this may seem far fetched and everything but i personaly think it will be Worgen(were wolf like creatures) why do i say this because that is only one zone on azeroth that seems like it could hold another race and its the peninsula south of one of the UD lands. If you try to go there there is a barrier called the greymane wall which keeps the Worgen inside and if you look into the lore it is a very strong possibility that worgen may in fact be one of the new races.

it provides.

-Dark race for allience
-Animalistic race
-Not everyone would want to play one
-Worgen are there own race and some were once human giving them a reason to join allience

Im placing my bets on worgen but i would like to hear from steve when he thinks the new allience race will be announced.

God, I would love to play worgen... but they are like werewolves... would that mean change in character depending on time of day? Because the worgen in that one Horde area change at 9pm server time... You say not everyone would want to play one... but boy would I.

Good reply Bildo. Taydus seems like one of those people who thinks that the more question marks he uses, the better his argument. I am getting tired of the people calling the Pandaren a joke race, or too cute.

There are many people who seem to hate the Pandaren because they are about drinking. Then I wonder what they think about the Dwarves, since they have the same kind of culture. This is also the reason why the Pandaren love to hang out with the Dwarves, according to the Alliance and Horde Compendium.

There is one thing I wonder. How did the Chinese government find out that Blizzard intended to make the Pandaren a race for the Alliance? Because if this is a political reason, then Blizzard must have heard somehow that they aren't allowed to make the Pandas into a player race. I highly doubt that the Chinese already had a written law about it. So how did the Chinese government even get involved in this in the first place?

I think the Worgen aren't a likely candidate to join the Alliance. The Worgen are Humans that are tainted by something. The Alliance has showed that they are extremely racist and they don't take anyone into their ranks that has any kind of taint, no matter what it is. And too many leetkiddies absolutely love the idea of playing a werewolf or vampire. This will not help balance the Horde at all.

The Chinese Government didn't find anything out, they don't care. It doesn't even mention them in the above article, political doesn't always mean government.

The real reason Blizzard decided not to put pandas in WoW:
-They realized it was a stupid idea and fired whoever dreamed up such a discrace to the company.

Again a panda? Seriously?
Grow up.

Actualy the worgen are a entire race of there own brought back from another plane (twilight zone or something) by a mad wizard. The worgen were loyal to the allience during the Orc vs Human war but then broke off and destroyed there formal master. The wizard then began to do horrible expiriments on the people close to his tower the result was that the humans turn to worgen at night.

Ooh that's cool. So then then worgen race would just be worgen all the time then? I wonder what their Racial would be... some sort of clawing or life stealing thing? Supposing they continue to really refine the racial traits, and the BE's are just the beginning of the significantness of the racials... there could be some very cool health regaining traits for the worgen then. Imagine being a worgen warrior and having the ability to syphon life off your target as you go along, more life than the current Fury traits enable anyway. Could be very interesting.

I like that idea Sychon. Never really considered them as a possibility, would be very cool.

What about the Tuskarr though? Could they also not be a very viable possibility?

Void, great point /sarcasm. How long did it take you to think up that idea? You're one of the few, and I really mean FEW people who dislike the Pandaren. Chen was beloved in WC3 and for this reason they were fleshed out by Metzen and team as a true race for the lore. Whether or not we see them as playable or even NPCs, they are part of the WC Universe, and will be till Metzen decides to kill them off or send them to his equivalent of the Grey Havens. Get used to it, and take your misled and uninformed opinions elsewhere, please.

Itchy, I see your point about the kids and worgen, but also remember they do seem to be going on the trend of creating a nasty or less cliche race for the alliance. The worgen would fit this, and if Sychon is right, they have more background than simply being Werewolves with a different name. Keep an eye out for them too, I'd say.

Of course all of our opinions, even the dumb ones, are all speculation. For all we know we could get something dumb like Dark Dwarves or anything like that...

Regarding the case of the Pandaren only furthering the imbalance, I'm hoping for perhaps a new race of lizard-like humanoids. Along the lines of the dragonkin, but that's just wishful thinking.

If Draenei are retooled, and made a bit more attractive, the way the Ogres were back a while ago (though admittedly they're still ugly), I wouldn't mind playing one at all. Their storie and lore is intriguing and cool. They're just too, well, icky, as they are now. Perhaps Taydus may have something right in that they could be in the Outland, though I doubt that.

More likely I think is that they would be FROM the outland, when the Dark Portal opened. Or, they could just remodel all of them, and not say a thing about it :)

But look at page 68 of the artbook that came with the Collector's Edition of the game, those that have it. Lower left corner is a drawing concept labeled Lizardman. Could just be a concept of a dragonkin, but he has 2 legs only. Who knows...

Well i've been reading through this page as it was posted on my Realm forums and I can gather this much. Taydus thinks for some odd reason he ALMOST came up with Dranei as the new race by HIMSELF and well, most of you are intelligent!

Anyway, we keep hearing all these Dranei things which makes my head kinda hang as im not a huge fan of them :( also im not so sure where they would even start! That camp is SoS...the levels around it are a tidge to high and well kinda rough for people even higher then those mobs, crazy Dranei running about in the shadows popping in and out :-\ I myself am still trying to think of a Blood Elf Mount.

Blood Elf mount? I'd be willing to bet it may come down to some kind of elemental, nether-like thing. Like a Twisting Nether Horse or something. They even mentioned they've thrown that idea around at Blizzcon. I for one think it would fit in quite well with the BE's hunger for Magic and addiction to it. Plus it would just be dang awesome.

Samwise is the one who came up with the Pandaren race. So Void is basically calling one of the best artists an idiot. Samwise is the big man at Blizzard when it comes to the true Blizzard art, together with Chris Metzen, the story writer.

What idiot came up with the Dwarves? They are all about drinking all day long. Pandarens and Dwarves are for the most part the same. Both races like to drink. So basically you are calling Dwarves stupid as well. Really what is wrong with the people who hate Pandarens? What is so wrong about the race? And in what way is any race in WoW serious? Are you guys playing a different game all together or do you think WoW is like a job? God forbid that a race is actually funny to look at. That is such a bad thing, you aren't supposed to have any fun in a game. /boggle

If they're not supposed to be funny to look at, take away gnomes, and all the /dance emotes. Also, I think the Panda Haters are simply the type of gamers who came in with the PSOne and 2 rush of New School gamers... the kind who think anything that's not dark or sinister or gorey is "un-cool"... in short, close-minded, unimaginative, gamers... the kind I despise.

for your information bildo...

yes my points are quite faulty.. but they make MORE sense then having a race of pandas.

also i hate the idea of a race of pandas but i don't think that

"anything that's not dark or sinister or gorey is "un-cool""

in fact i play many fun happy games. but i think that pandas would ruin the think that blizzard has going with WoW.

but on the fact of the Worgen.. they sound like a good option as i know alot of gamers who would join WoW i we get a werewolf race.

anyway.. i will admit that i kinda have been pointlessly going on about nothing but i will stand by the point that the Pandarens will not be the new race... no chance..

Can someone please explain what is so different about the Pandarens in comparison with any other race in WoW? And especially why they would ruin WoW. Really what is wrong about Pandarens, since I really don't see it.

Taydus... have I recently, in my latest posts said anything about how I think they will be in the game, seriously? No. And you can't just say there's no way, even if Steve here says to. Even he says they could even change their mind, so get over your misinformed conceptions.

Itchy, I have no clue... notice the majority of Panda hating is coming from Taydus and one or two other people... don't fret too much about it.

Also, you lost all, if you had any, credibility when you made the statement:

"yes my points are quite faulty.. but they make MORE sense then having a race of pandas.

also i hate the idea of a race of pandas but i don't think that

"anything that's not dark or sinister or gorey is "un-cool""

in fact i play many fun happy games. but i think that pandas would ruin the think that blizzard has going with WoW."

AND

"anyway.. i will admit that i kinda have been pointlessly going on about nothing but i will stand by the point that the Pandarens will not be the new race... no chance.."

Way to shoot yourself down... don't retract your statements in the face of accusations and criticism. If our President doesn't do it, why should you... even when accusations towards both G-Dub and yourself are true as they are... don't back down. That's just sad... and makes baby Jesus cry.

I think the big thing, Itchy, is that people would think it would be odd. Personally big drunk pandas with bo-staffs and such would be sweet =) but I think some compare it with Blood Elves maybe getting unicorns y'know...we have Kodos, raptors, ravenous wolves and undead steeds...BEHOLD THE UNICORN! =) But w/e...everyone can have their own opinion, even if it sucks :D

Ya know Bildo, I am beginning to understand why reading Taydus' posts gets frustrating. Beyond the fact that he rarely spells anything correctly, his arguments make no sense. There are BE in the game somewhere? No, but something like it? Yes...But they STILL aren't BE's. So if they are not actually BE then there are no BE NPC's in the game right now, making BE's impossible as the Horde race (by Taydus' line of thinking). If that is the basis behind saying Pandarens can't be included, merely because there is no NPC in the world, well, thats kinda short sighted. There are areas on our continents you can not even get to yet, so who is to say who or what is living there? Not to mention any new geographical content that Blizzard adds! Walking (well, staggering), talking Panda's? Why not?
Again, I am not trying to convince people that Pandarens are going to be the next race, as it is clear that at this point, they won't be, all I am trying to do is ask people to use some logic in their arguments.

Also Bildo, where did you see pictures or concept drawings of Tuskarr? I tried going to Blizzard.com and using the search engine there, but came up blank. Worgen would be a real cool idea for a race, as it would give people on Alliance an "ugly" race, and still animalistic for those who want a more monster type race.
As for the races being original, well, unfortunately, and no disrespect to Blizzard, none of the races are really original. You could technically draw a line back to D&D and other role playing games, and see minotaurs (tauren), and the other races. Again, not a knock against Blizzard, merely an observation.
And let's be realistic; no matter what the new races are, everyone will at least try them out to see what the big hooplah is, and then, assuming they don't like the new races, go back to their old toons and get em to 70 :)

I can't recall Yatsuo... if it's not on Blizzard.com, try battle.net. Someone had linked them over on the official boards at one point, could try asking there too. I'd look it up, but this is one of the few sites I have access to at work. They cracked down HARD on WoW players here. :P

I just seen something that kinda scared me in a post, not because it was nasty..or mean..but it made sence!!! What is all around the Barrens? What do the horde in the area hate?? what are 30 quest just to kill them....they are treatening to take over a large area of the barrens....and THEY ARE UGLY!! Tuskers....hmmmmmm.. I would love to play a wearwolf..but then so would tons more..there goes that whole balance thing again..but a shaman pig??? dont see the rush to that you got for shaman cows...any further thoughs?

Hmm... the Goretusks seem a little too Horde-like, the alliance like to kill them too even. So I'd doubt it. Wish I could post a link to the Tuskarr. Will have to when I get home, and do more background searches on them. They're like Walruss sort of things. Friendly, but beastly. Hard to explain. They were in WC3 though, I'm fairly certain.

http://www.battle.net/war3/neutral/tuskarr.shtml
first tuskarr site I found

Sorry for the back to back post..but no edit button... the ones I was thinking of earlier are the Bristleback, Geomancer, warriors and such...they dont find an aliance they will be run over...love to think of these kind of puzzles..LOL

Yeah that's what I meant too, sorry. Goretusks are just boars I think. But if I'm not mistaken, isn't there alliance quests to kill them too? So still, while maybe cool, it's doubtful. Check out those Tuskarr though... so cool.

LOL... I am really bored of talking about the new race via forums.. but oh well.

I know that I have been "babbling incoherently", and for my strange ways I am sorry.

We really can't be sure of the new race so I'm kinda trying to stop this panda haters, draenei haters, and such, fued.

We'll just have to wait and see what Blizzard dishes out for us...

and reading back on some of the posts... yes we do need a world of starcraft!!!! that would rock!! LOL

BTW here is another tuskarr site

http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Tuskarr.jpg

and cause I'm so nice here is a pandaren related site. hehe

http://www.battle.net/war3/pandaren/

"the mighty Pandaren Empire" LOL

even thou looking back the same link is post in steve's original post... hmmmm

nvm

One thing for sure: Do not expect, that Blizz was sooo sloppy, to make only one race ready for the (already planned) Grand Premiere (aka. Blizzcon): They have most likely planned another, and it also makes sense, that they have to give it up, because of some "multiple, external reasons": here are some to consider:

1. Storyline: While there are only a few problems with class balance (warlocks?, etc), there is a huge lore gap: what the hack would Pandaren be doing on Outlands? Clearly, Draenai&others are better, by far, regarding this aspect.

2. Faction balance: Pandaren, though lacking the lore background, are still visually appealing enough, to turt to tide, and make even more serious inbalance, towards the Alliance.

3. The most grave cause: The chinese 'cultural council', or similar, has to superwise any games allowed to China: a chinese Blizz member has already announced (see official forums): that the Pandarens create serious POLITICAL issues (so nothing about cultural, or sacred animals): Somply, because the current communist government of China makes official policy of hatred towards the Japanese (for their 2nd ww. occupation), they would not accept concept arts, or creatures, that COMBINE CHINESE and JAPANESE (samurai weaponry, remember...): So until they continue the official demonstrations and 'cultural war' against Japan, these attitudes are not going to change... Only if Blizz completey changes the Pandaren concept, to make it 'pure chinese', or else.

Conclusion: Pandaren may appear in later expansions (if they trike an agreement with China, which is hard). I am really looking forward to see them in the (later) expansion about the 'Great Sea'

regarding your other post and this one..

i am wondering about the way you set out the expansions. I do understand that blizz are able to create many expansions, but looking at the current rate of computer game evolution it would be foolish of blizz to bring out an expansion every year (or 2 years looking at how long we had since the original came out) because it could cause players to leave WoW and join newer games. That is unless blizzard plans to rehaul graphics slightly and add some change to the style of gameplay and also plenty of new interactive features. I'm not saying that WoW looks bad or that it's gameplay and options are bad, in fact I think it is a very well designed game. But I am worried that if blizz spends years bringing WoW to full fruition without keeping it up to date with the future capabilities of games. Looking back at the evolution of games in the past few years it can be seen how many, big the changes have occured.
It would not really be good for blizz if they keep giving us 1-2 year breaks without major updates (expansions). Because this could make the average gamer frustrated with the fact of having the wait for the next expansion to again be able to continue lvling their main character (as if that many expansions are coming it would be a kill joy not to continue increasing the lvl cap).
I am not sure that 10 lvls will be enough to keep the average hardcore gamer happy for one whole year. That is unless that make sure there is enough for us to explore, kill, loot, quest, battle (by this meaning battlegrounds), and trade for 1-2 years till the next expansion comes out (after the one currently in development comes out).

I trust blizzard and I am one who would wait (as i have waited for WoW), but I address these points for the sake of other hardcore players unlike me who are unwilling to wait and would prefer jumping ship (e.g. going to EQ2 or any online game that will come out at a later date), if you don't mind the metaphor.

On the point of the new race I have to agree that it would make sense that the Draenei are introduced (as I have been pushing for a while now) for example:

"what the hack would Pandaren be doing on Outlands? Clearly, Draenai&others are better, by far, regarding this aspect."
~Arinnaya

Arinnaya has a point. A very good example/reason that I forgot to list:
Why would blizz make the new race Panadaren when they are bringing in the Draenei homeland as a playable area? (thats a rhetorical question, lol)

If you do look at all the facts it kind of does point at the Draenei being the best option. I know they are ugly but Blizz knows what they are doing and I bet they will make them into a cool race no matter how much they are currently hated.

I heard from a english guy that lives in china, that the Chinese people were NOT angered over the Panderan, and that in fact, they WANT the panderan, because it would be an Honor to have a playable race that they honor.

But, thats just what I heard. Nothing official. Maybe you should all go talk to a Chinese Player before you say that the Chinese people don't want Pandas in the game.

It just kinda poped into my head by the fact that we are getting 10 new lvls... could this be the hero lvls that have rumored since the beta. If these could be the hero lvls I hope they take a note from Star Wars Galaxies and make you work extreamly hard to get them. I dunno, I just thought that since there are only 10 hero lvls in Warcraft 3, maybe this is just a little hint since they are both 10 lvls. Sorry if I rambled and mispelled and what not.

to stoke..

I would think that unless they make these 10 lvls REALLY hard to get they would just end up being like normal lvls. I'm not sure but I would think that they would leave the option of adding more lvls later on (e.g. 70-80, 80-90, and 90-100).
This would kind of help gamers keep interested with WoW as the expansions come out (if there will be many of them), because if they made these ten lvls speacial then if lots of people got them quickly before the next expansion after this one then they would have trouble adding more lvls to increase playability.

So basically I would expect that these will not be "Hero" lvls but in fact just normal lvls. Now remember that this is MY opinion, if you wish to believe me is your choice. I may be right, I may be wrong.

here is something that might prove interesting...

"Pandaren are humanoids that resemble Giant Pandas. They reside in an isolated kingdom in North Kalimdor, although some have ventured out into the outside world like the Pandaren Brewmaster, and even more are isolated from their Azerothian brethren in the remote Outland bamboo forests of Pan'Xing. Blizzard originally announced that the Pandaren would be the fourth race of Warcraft III (before the Night Elves were announced), but they later revealed the announcement to be an April-Fools joke. Pandaren have subsequently become a running gag in Warcraft, such as a later April Fools' Joke announcing a take-out Chinese cuisine service called Pandaren Xpress, available from inside the game World of Warcraft (this was also a parody of EverQuest II's /pizza command, which would open a web browser to order pizza, generating plenty of press for them).

They were probably created by Blizzard artist Samwise Didier, whose 'trademark' is a giant panda.

The name "Pandaren" is likely a pun combining "Panda" and "Ren", the chinese word for "person"."

I don't think I need to say anything else.

Well, I dont know about all of this.. but if the pandas arent the next race.. and if you "Cant find them anywhere in game" to quote some fool on here.. what the hell is this!!

*dramatic music* BUM BUM BUM BA BUMMMMM....

Panda?

Bleh stupid A anchor.. ok sorry ill do a direct link for you.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/tim85/pandaleak.jpg

enjoy.

Okay... first.

The real reason Blizzard decided not to put pandas in WoW:
-They realized it was a stupid idea and fired whoever dreamed up such a discrace to the company.

Again a panda? Seriously?
Grow up.
Posted by TheVoid at November 3, 2005 10:49 AM

Sorry, TheVoid, the lead concept artist for Blizzard, who created the Panderan, is still happily employed by them.

Taydus: Besides convuluted BSing, you have yet to pull an actual fact out of your rear end. Give it up. You have far less proof of the Draenai then anyone who gives proof of the Panderan. Hell one of your points... "Are there even any PANDA MODELS in the game?" is completely wrong, seeing as how you can get a pet Panda when purchasing the Collectors Edition of the game.

1. As I said before, the presence of NPCs proves nothing. THe Draenai have been there since the game's Beta. They are a plot element, but not epicly so. Do not get this confused. If NPCs of a race are proof they're going to be in the game, Naga, Worgen, Goblins, Demons, and Troggs are confirmed races. :P

2. Yes, we get it, the Outlands are being opened. No, this does not mean the Draenai are guaranteed as a race either. If they were, that would mean thier starting area would be in the Outlands, which we know is impossible as the Outlands have already been labelled as a 60+ region.

3. The Draenai are normally pacifists, peopns at best, the only reason any have ever been agressive was due to the corruption of the Dark Portal. Do not confuse a small, corrupted faction for evidence of a complete change in thier nature.

4. The Alliance DOES NOT TRUST ANYTHING FROM THE OUTLANDS. Draenai are from.... *drumroll* You guessed it!!! The Outlands. I think you're greatly underestimating the level of hatred the Alliance factions hold for other races. If anything joins the alliance, it will need to have zero agressive history with the majority of the current Alliance and it'll have to be a race that can easily establish ties with the members of said alliance. Panderans are one of the only known races to meet both credentials. As thier race is secluded on another continent, only ever sending out wandering rogues like Brewmaster Chen, they have no involvement with the outside world therefore no reasons against a possible alliance. Prove that wrong.

LOL.. i'm having fun pointlessly arguing.. anyway...

SexualharassmentPanda (love the name, yay for south park) cool screen. I'm wondering where that is, so I can go see it myself to. Seeing is believing. (BTW thats the supposed leaked screenshot of a female Pandaren)

and to serene... NO the pandarens would not join the alliance as they VOWED not to ever again ally with the elves.

"the gentle pandaren decided to sever their ties and leave the night elves behind forever."

see the word FOREVER???

that is a quote pulled right from a Blizzard site.

FOREVER

and I have to agree with you serena about thevoid's post.

Also if anyone notices.. all the important Pandaren related Blizz anoucements (pardon the spelling) where done on April first!
The pandarens are an april 1 race. E.g. a joke race.
They exist to be laughed at.
and with your LOGIC "Draenai are normally pacifists" same can be said about the pandarens. but then again BOTH races are known to fight if they have to.

"The Draenei are known for being stealthy spies and assassins as their warriors can Shadowmeld at all times of day, even while moving. "

And the Draenei (not spelt Draenai) are sworn enemies of the orcs!! they go into a bloodrage when near orcs. Thus making then useful to the hateful alliance!!

"The Draenei are consumed by an unquenchable bloodlust whenever they know Orcs are near."

and the Draenei were quite close to being human but were "Severely mutated in the destruction of Draenor".

More points at the Draenei being the new race than things point at the Pandarens. But keep in mind all we are doing is speculating.

now to qoute you.

"Prove that wrong."

Okay, I didn't read the entire list of posts here so I don't know if this information is already a given, but here goes nothing:

World of Warcraft has a large market in China, a very large market. So they want to appeal to the Chinese community as much as possible.
One thing they don't want to do is piss the Chinese government off and get their game banned.

Now we look at the very real dislike that the Chinese have the for the Japanese. Especially with the new textbook that was just okayed in Japan that China says Whitewashes war crimes perpetrated by the Japanese, and the fact that the Prime Minister of Japan continues to visit the war memorial despite China's obvious dislike of it.

With that information in mind, have a look at the Pandaren and how they resemble the Japanese. With their Katana and their Kimonos I think that the 'political' problem is that China would have a large objection to one race in a large game like WoW resembling one of their most disliked Neighbours. And when a country with such a large user base puts it's foot down about something like that, companies like Blizzard are wise to listen to the very real thunder of it.

Mind you, I could be MILES in the wrong direction, but that's a guess I'd wager.

There are reasons to assume Draenei will be the new alliance race. For one they are a nice 'ugly' counterbalance to the Blood elves for horde.

But consider this.

Historically the Draenei were allied with Illidan & cohorts making it somewhat unlikely for them to ally with alliance. WC3 players should remember the attack on the demon's castle in TFT where the Draenei were very useful with their stealth ability.

Which brings me to the next thing to consider. The Draenei would have a shadowmeld ability which would give alliance a SECOND race with such an ability. This seems kind of unbalanced to me. Also when Blizz would stay true to the initial Draenei design they would be able to move in shadowmeld which would mean every draenei would be able to stealth much like a rogue would. This seems too much to me.

Taydus, finally you post somethign coherent and well thought out. I thank you for that. :)

And I also believe Revadac is in the right direction as to why they wouldn't put the Pandaren in. It's not that they're a joke Taydus, so much as it is a liability to the Chinese mood over the Pandas being so Japanese-like. Whiel you and others may think them a joke, and that they were begun as a novelty, they were fleshed out by Metzen and crew as a full race and one with back-lore to boot. Keep in mind they WERE going to go with them as the alliance race, until the aforementioned political issue, and also I believe the realization that the race would create even more of a population imbalance.

It's for this reason I believe the Draenei could be imminent... however much I might not want to play one. If they're re-tooled a bit, I'm sure they'll be fine, but boy are the fugly as is now.

But kudos to both of the previous posters, closer to the money than I think they know.

Aduial, I believe you are thinking on the right track, but keep in mind 2 things:

-The lore changed for the BE's, and will most likely have a change for the Draenei.

-Also, all the races are receiving racial overhauls.... Shadowmeld could be a thing of the past for NE's by the time the expansion comes out. You never know with MMO's what lies in the future.

Having sat and thought for a while on how to phrase this particular thought of mine, I'm just going to say this:

Let's try and think outside the box for a moment.

Yes, it's true the obvious choices for the next Alliance player race would probably be Draenei, or Pandaren (If either of them were actually under consideration at any time.) BUT I think one of the things we might be forgetting is that while the Blood Elves are tied in one way to the Outland, they do not start there.
What that means is that all the races thus far could be considered 'Core' Azeroth races.

True, the Orcs came from Draenor, but they've been part of Warcraft history since the very beginning. Trolls aren't a stretch as they were part of the Horde at the beginning as well, and Dwarves, Gnomes, and Elves are your basic fantasy fare. Tauren and the Undead were both introduced in the Reign of Chaos, as well as the distinction of Night Elf, and the Frozen Throne introduced Blood Elves.
However, all of these races have been a part of the Azeroth World and History, even though we haven't seen them, for a long time.

My argument is that there is probably a race that we haven't seen that much, that exists on Azeroth, that will be the next Alliance race. For instance there's the Dryads, or Furbolgs, either of which could be brought into the Alliance under the Night Elves watchful eyes.
Murlocs, anyone? I mean, aren't these current Murlocs that we hunt and kill supposed to be tainted with Chaos? Not that I think fishmen are the way to go mind you.
Naga would be interesting. It'd be neat to see, but I can't imagine THOSE twisted Elves would be able to claw their way into the Alliance very easily. But it would make for a pretty spectacular set of cities, no? AND, they have ties to Prince Kael and the Outlands as well.
What other craziness can I come up with as I throw things out there... um.... Nerubians? Who wouldn't want to play giant spiders. And heck, they have a darn good reason to not like the Horde or the Undead, right? Northrend anyone? The Lich King? If the Forsaken could be under their own power now, why not?

I'm just make wild stabs in the dark, but I'm thinking since Pandaren are definitely on the out for WHATEVER reason, and Draenei are far too bland a choice for the Alliance (Considering they weren't really that fleshed out to begin with, and kinda uninteresting right now) so maybe we can knock our collective heads together and think about what could be Connected to the Outlands and the Burning Legion, but still have their basic Homebase on Azeroth.

Anyone?

I think we could rule out Naga and Nerubians at least at this point. For lore reasons (though all that is subject to change), and for simple graphical reasons. Plain and simple, the alliance race is going to be anthropomorphic in every sense of the word. 2 legs, 2 arms, and all that jazz.

Furbolgs maybe, I wouldn't mind that at all, and they fit very well into the alliance being once allied with the NE's, and also could very well end up starting in the Mount Hyjal area. On Kalimdor at the very least, in keeping with the symmetry. If it's not Draenei, my next vote would go to the Furbies :)

What other possibilities are there for a bipedal race?

Worgen? Not the change a night kind, but the real kind that are permanently wolven from behind that wall. (Though admittedly might be too cool, and counteract the draw of BEs)

Ogres- No chance, always when sided, sided with Horde. HATED by the alliance.

Goblins- Love money too much from both sides to side with either. They're forever Swtizerland.

Satyrs- Slight possibility, but would be very hard to fit into lore convincingly considering the NEs hatred of them. Though they'd be much like the Undead in that they would be an ally of convenience more than anything else.

Dryads- Nope, don't see the 4-legged horse thing happening... good fit yes, but a graphical issue to hard to contend with when they're focusing on content. Very had to map all that armor to a horse's butt, methinks.

What else does that leave?

I'd vote for Furbolgs and Worgen and Satyrs in a heartbeat. But like always with these posts... only time will tell.

Honestly, I think when it comes down to it, the reason why Blizzard haven't decided on a Race for the Alliance is because the way their Mythos is set they don't really hav e a great choice for it.

At any rate, I'm going to play through WC3:RoC, and TFT, again to see if I can spot anything that jumps out and screams 'ALLIANCE!'

Who knows what that might yield. But as you say, Bildo... only time will tell. I know I'm looking forward to it.:)

"With that information in mind, have a look at the Pandaren and how they resemble the Japanese. With their Katana and their Kimonos I think that the 'political' problem is that China would have a large objection to one race in a large game like WoW resembling one of their most disliked Neighbours. And when a country with such a large user base puts it's foot down about something like that, companies like Blizzard are wise to listen to the very real thunder of it.

Mind you, I could be MILES in the wrong direction, but that's a guess I'd wager."

Redavac... no.

First off, a Kimono is a single robe with an undershirt, white socks, and a large fastening cloth about the middle. The Panderan typically wear traditional chinese garb, consisting of a button fastened (never on a kimono) shirt or long coat and slacks. Secondly, the only example of Panderan to date wields a Bo Staff, once again, a weapon of Chinese ancestry.

Therefore, at a loss of how the Panderan remind anyone of the Japanese...

And Taydus, forever is never a permenant thing, especially with the folks at Blizzard. Yes, yes, Panderan XPress was a April Fools joke, good for you bringing up stupid examples to prove meaningless points. (OMGLOL Y0U H4XX0R, there, did that make more sense to you?). However, Brewmaster Chen was not added to the Frozen Throne as a joke. The lore behind the Panderans was not written in as an Apiril Fools joke, nor was it written in on April 1st. Your inability to play the older games doesn't excuse you and make you an expert overnight.

Whatever the case may be with why they were pulled, gang... they were pulled, and we more than likely won't be playing as them come some time next year.

Serena, would you care to expand upon the theories of other races aside from Draenei brought up here and in many other forums? What are your thoughts?

Serena,

While I appreciate you explaining my misadventure into what a Kimono actually is - an error on my part - maybe you could shed some more light on why you've stated my explanation is so devoid of any possible truth? While the Panderan are not specifically Chinese or Japanese by any stretch of the imagination, what if specific people with a very strong Say in the distribution of a game actually felt there was a problem with it?

Could it be, that from a Chinese stand point having very obvious ethnic differences merged into one specific 'Race' (ie Chinese and Japanese dress/weapon characteristics) could be seen by the ruling Party in China as not Pro-Chinese. And since China has a very strict guideline on what their population is allowed to ingest as part of it's daily intake of available data, could that not potentially be the case?

I'm not saying your two points aren't well defined, as they clearly stop my argument as such... but couldn't this be happening on a higher, more political, level, where people tend to not be as opened minded as you or I might be?

From a very personal standpoint, living in Asia, I've seen how how these countries operate alongside one another. For instance, when a country like Singapore tells a Television station, that not only offers programming to them (But also includes the Hong Kong SAR, and other countries within the Asia Pacific region), that they want all references to sexual content and harsh language, as well as violence, cut out of all it's shows the television station does exactly that. Losing a country is pretty big on the loss of client list of things not to do.
From a North American, or European standpoint, where the country is driven on the opinions of the individuals, yeah, maybe you'd have a point. Maybe Panderan don't resemble the Japanese as much as you might think.
However, in Asia, where China has a say over what the people know - fullstop - the word of the individual isn't as readily available. And therefore, not open to debate at the country sees it.

However, what I offered in the end was simply an opinion based on my own experience in Asia. And a possible insight as to why the Panderan race might have been nixed from the running for an Alliance 5th Race.

Nevertheless, your statement:

'Secondly, the only example of Panderan to date wields a Bo Staff, once again, a weapon of Chinese ancestry.'

Is a little misinformed. Perhaps Chen Stormstout was the wielder of such a weapon, but the link supplied by Steve in the above section titled:
So what is the new Alliance race going to be?
Suggests a wholely different route Blizzard was going with the Panderan Race. So have another look at it:

http://www.battle.net/war3/pandaren/

and tell me if the Panderan pictured in the pics gathered on that site weren't garbed in what, even you, would refer to as Traditional Japanese outfits.

I might not be an expert on what a Kimono actually consists of, but I'll be darned if the outfits and weaponry of the pictured Panderan don't seem suspiciously Japanese to me. Hence why a country like China, might have a teensy bit of a problem with it.

I could see the Fulborg getting a spot. The uncorrupted furbolg would most likely ally with alliance. (especially since Horde has been doing a lot of lumberjacking in Ashenvale) I don't think they'd give em mount Hyjal however since that spot is a bit too 'epic' to serve as a starting site, also I've seen evidence on Thottbot that Hyjal is going to be an instance of some sort.

My best bet for the furries home is that they're gonna shack up with the night elves on Teldrassil if they would become a player race (would make those furbolg suits interesting btw :))

Having thought about Draenei a bit more I'm beginning to find it more and more plausible. I've just visited them a few hours ago and they're very civil creatures. There seems to be an empty zone quite close to SoS (between BL RR and BS) that might serve as a nice spot for them. Also they've been a "player race"in TFT with unique capabilities. My earlier objections concerning story inconsistency and game imbalance could probably be circumvented quite easily. I haven't seen the Draenei in SoS shadowmeld or anything so maybe that's not to be considered a racial ability (they do poison a lot). So I would agree with Bildo:
1: Draenei
2: Furbolg

I would think they Alliance race no matter what will be on Kalimdor. So I would throw the SoS idea out the window. My guess if they are going to make it Furbolg or Draenei, they will be on Kal somewhere, admittedly not Hyjal (though it could end up being just a historical site considering the World Tree instance inside of The Caverns of Time, in which case it would be a perfect home for the Furbolg.), but perhaps somewhere near Stonetalon.

Can't tell at work, but I think there is an uncharted zone near Stonetalon, hae to check it out later.

But yeah, I'd say possibilities right now are mostly
1- Draenei
2- Furbolg

I think both would be the sort of "ugly" they might add to the allies and both would fit in easily with their cause. Furbolgs would rule, as well, IMO. Though they sure wouldn't give us shaman... that's the only problem... Furbolgs are shamanistc as mobs in the game, and I doubt they'd give alliance Shammies. Perhaps in a lore twist, the Furbolgs that are playable will consider those that use shamanistic magic as evil members of their race, and they'll simply denie using it themselves. Who knows, but I'd be making a Furbolg priest or something anyway, so who cares about shammies. :)

PS

I still think Draenei are not interesting enough to qualify as a player race atm and should be redesigned a bit so they can be considered a plausible alternative to the other races. I had the privilege to 'play' with the Draenei for a bit (Im a Priest and could use mindcontrol) and they seemed very wooden to me (Furbolgs do to btw).
Right now Im wondering how a Draenei would dance and what kind of mount they would have.

It seems the only uncharted bit that's actually a zone on Kalim is mt. Hyjal. I really hope they won't give that to furbolgs or Draenei. They might be able to cut a piece of stonetalon which might also give access (by boat) to darkshore. Another thing they might do is make a new island or something...

By the way the Draenei in SoS also have shamans (shamen?) so either way they can't deny em to us :D

Oh they have to though, unless they plan on giving Paladins to Horde... which just doesn't fit lorewise... can you imagine the outrage if Alliance got Shamans but Horde didn't get pallies... MUTINY!

Even with both races having shamans, we won't be getting them on the alliance. Just won't happen. If it does, even I'd be mad. Unless horde somehow became Deathknights or something as well (Dark Paladin). Guess, again, we'll just have to wait and see.

But I wouldn't be surprised if Hyjal became the starting area for Furbolg or Draenei. Where the BE's are starting is also very significant to the history of Azeroth, and it would make a good deal of sense if the Furbolg took refuge there.

There is also that furbolg hold in Azshara however, the northern part... that seems more likely if anything as their starting are, put them in there, and rebuild the zone or cut them their own zone past that furbolg hold's wall. Just like the BE's they'd need a boat to get out and connect with the rest of the world, but I see no reason for that to be a proble, so close to the northern sea.

Oh dear, I think I'm onto something... or ON something one or the other.

Oooo, Furbolg druids? Finally I could play a Druid on alliance without having to resort to adding to the NE population. :)

Yeah I guess you're right on the shaman part :) Although deathknight like UD paladins would be sooo cool. Anyway they're either going to have to make some major geographical changes to make any of this work or give up Hyjal to the Fulborgs or (shudder) the Draenei. That or they would be forced to stuff them in Eastern Kingdoms with all the other alliance races which I agree would thoroughly unbalance stuff.

Just to complicate things: what about the Walrus type guys the tuskarr.

http://www.battle.net/war3/neutral/tuskarr.shtml#spearman

There's even a pic there with a possible mount :)

""Even with both races having shamans, we won't be getting them on the alliance. Just won't happen. If it does, even I'd be mad. Unless horde somehow became Deathknights or something as well (Dark Paladin). Guess, again, we'll just have to wait and see.""

They have said that they are not set on the last few classes for the BE..why not a magic wielding fighter of a pali class..with dark over tunes??
Would cancel out the shaman MUD men we are going to probley get..LOL

sry, just saw Tuskarr were discussed before :-o

Dredman,

Though they haven't concreted the BE's classes they have stated time and time again there will be NO new classes this expansion. So don't count on that dream, though I will admit it's a nice one :)

Yeah Aduial, I like the idea of them as well, however I'm very unfamiliar with their lore and backstory.

Anyone care to shed some light on the Tuskarr?

"Humanoid walrus creatures who can be found in Northrend."

all i found...

I would say that they would only be NPCs...

No real lore background...

Worgens

"These creatures resemble werewolves. Their true origins are unknown, the Worgen of Duskwood were called by the discovery of the Scythe of Elune, the Worgen of Silverpine Forest are seemingly the result of an experiment by Archmage Arugal and the Dark Riders of Deadwind Pass have no know origin, but are rumoured to dwell inside Medivh's Tower."

theres something about the worgen...

heres something cool...

"One of the features of Warcraft III are the unit quotes. If a single unit is clicked several times in a row, the unit's voice samples change. The unit may start getting angry at the player, or start saying silly things in reference to movies, games, or other "inside jokes". For example, after several clicks the Human peasant exclaims in a British accent, "Help! Help! I'm being repressed!" — a quote from the movie Monty Python and the Holy Grail. They also say "What, you're the king? I didn't vote for you." and "We found a witch; may we burn her?", both of which also come from that movie.

Footmen also have been tainted by Monty Python. When clicked upon a number of times, they exclaim, "It's only a flesh-wound!" — adapted from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Knights remark, "My favourite colour is blue...No, YELLOW!" Another of their comments is, "I never say ni." — Monty Python has obviously had an adverse affect on the humour behind Warcraft III."

LOL

go blizzard...

If they're found on Northrend, I'd count them out until the Northrend expansion pack. For sure even, but I'd bet for them to be brought in then. Way down the line of course.

But yeah I agree, the Worgen seem very cool... almost too cool... I'd still like Furbolgs over Draenei.

Yeah but the furbolgs are not really important...

Draenei are still a better choice lore wise...

"Furbolg
Furbolgs are ursine humanoids. They reside in tribes, and were peaceful until the coming of the Burning Legion, when many were affected by the corruption they brought and turned evil. The Timbermaw tribe were the only ones to escape the corruption. The Ursa Warriors are their elites.

The name Furbolg seems to be a derivative of the Irish Fir Bolg."

They wouldn't make a good race and as i said before they dont play a very important role at all.

Just remeber